Is Sonic Mid-tier material? Is he better than Bowser again? (Read the OP)

[Camalange]

If Bowser could do anything else besides Fortress OoS, maybe he'd be a decent character.

 

[Boxob.]

What out of shield option does bowser have against SDR to Uair or a plain old spaced bair?

Oh nothing? That's what I thought.

 

[MrEh]

What out of shield option does bowser have against SDR to Uair or a plain old spaced bair?

Oh nothing? That's what I thought.

OoS Taunt.


Game over Sonics.

 

[Kinzer]

^^

I'm gonna take that as a subtle "you're wrong" post.

I'm with Mr. Eh, I just have a feeling that Fortress has enough mobility to at least get a weak-hit off most anything.

 

[Boxob.]

SDR into DJ aerial gets hit by nothing!

 

[Chis]

This is not a match up thread btw.

 

[B!squick]

I'm sorry, but Fortress OoS beats everything. Even Luigi's down taunt.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

What out of shield option does bowser have against SDR to Uair or a plain old spaced bair?

Oh nothing? That's what I thought.

OoS Fortress or he can chase you and Fair/Side B you





But yea, Bowser isn't going to get very far since anyone could just counterpick DeDeDe and bam, they win

And telling someone to avoid getting grabbed my DeDeDe is like telling someone to live forever. It's not going to happen unless they're pumped full of steriods or consume the energy the other people their up against and even then it'd be still very hard to win

 

[MrEh]

And telling someone to avoid getting grabbed my DeDeDe is like telling someone to live forever. It's not going to happen unless they're pumped full of steriods or consume the energy the other people their up against and even then it'd be still very hard to win

Dude, we're Bowser mains. If we said "we can avoid Dedede's grab" we'd be kidding ourselves.


The thing about most Bowser players is that we've come to accept that our main is crappy. We accept our weaknesses and learn to counterpick. lol


The good thing about the current metagame is that when more and more people start using MK, less and less use Dedede. Better for us overall, but it really doesn't help the D3 problem at all.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

The thing about most Bowser players is that we've come to accept that our main is crappy. We accept our weaknesses and learn to counterpick. lol

The good thing about the current metagame is that when more and more people start using MK, less and less use Dedede. Better for us overall, but it really doesn't help the D3 problem at all.

I'm guessing Falco is a common secondary among Bowser mains, huh?

 

[aeghrur]

Point is, bowser probably has more potential.
A lot less tourny viability though.

 

[MrEh]

I'm guessing Falco is a common secondary among Bowser mains, huh?

Secondaries usually vary. As long as they can beat Dedede though, it's fine. Personally, I like Jiggs.


And yeah, Bowser will never be tournament viable as long as Dedede, Ice Climbers, and Diddy exist.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

IMO Sonic is still a little low on the tier list. He should probably be right above Peach with his current metagame.

 

[Browny]

OK ive clearly drunk too much alcohol tonight

wait a sec i dont drink...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

IMO Sonic is still a little low on the tier list. He should probably be right above Peach with his current metagame.

Oh wow. I'm legit stunned...... I'm guessing Shugo had a lot to do with this Panda? We actually have a ton of Sonics saying he's too HIGH. I'm not sure what to think about his placement right now.

 

[Chis]

Oh wow. I'm legit stunned...... I'm guessing Shugo had a lot to do with this Panda? We actually have a ton of Sonics saying he's too HIGH. I'm not sure what to think about his placement right now.

Those people do not stand for the entire community, making it clear.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Woah woah woah. Top of C tier or are you insinuating B tier Panda cause it was my understanding that Sonic BARELY made it through the pre req to get INTO C tier.

 

[Chis]

We actually have a ton of Sonics saying he's too HIGH. I'm not sure what to think about his placement right now.

Not really tons, some. This view isn't as commonly held as 'Sonic is too low' back in the day. Just saying.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, Peach is way too GRAAAAAH.
Everyone hates fighting her and she is clearly better.

But to Bowser.
Bowser has CG's on nearly everyone and grab release options are pleine d'availabelement.
However, Bowser grab range is as **** as Sonic, without speed to run in for a grab, can not SDSC and is slow (movement wise, not attack wise)
I can not see Bowser grabbing a MK more than once a match because he has the poor grab range, so he can not shieldgrab. Only way I see grabs happening is shieldbreaking the MK, otherwise you get outspaced.
Bowser is good from his shield with the invincible fortress, with the quite long ending lag when it's shielded (not at all impossible for high tier characters who have commonly fast moves and can space correctly) to be punished. It's a double edged sword.
D3 is a pain, he outranges you in basically everything, outweighs you vertically and has the evil CG.
Try using a CP here.

Bowser is not better than Sonic.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Ah but you forget Chis there are roughly 3 and a half hojillion Sonics. Assuming it's only the maybe 20 percent who have said that That's still 7 kazillion. Well more than we need to hit the multiple tons mark assuming everyone weighs at least 100 pounds.


lol

I agree though. Sonic is better than Boozer. Along with **** GF2 has mentioned there's also stuff like how a lot of characters can force Boozer to approach all but negating his awesome camping/shield options with things like lasers and spinnytops. Pew pew. ^_^

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Oh wow. I'm legit stunned...... I'm guessing Shugo had a lot to do with this Panda? We actually have a ton of Sonics saying he's too HIGH. I'm not sure what to think about his placement right now.

Shugo did have some to do with my opinion of Sonic's metagame. But its more the effort of all the high level Sonics that keep placing high when they go to large tournaments that made many people open their eyes to the fact that Sonic isn't a bottom tier character. Given, there are quite a few people that still don't believe that Sonic isn't bottom tier, but those of us who have seen Sonic in the hands of a good player know better than that.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Alright thank ya.


I wonder how the opinion will change with Malcolm dropping Sonic. Probably won't because what has been seen can't be UNSEEN and Shugo and Espy are still around repping.


Woah woah woah woah. Some people in the SBR think Sonic is BOTTOM tier? Not low. Bottom. What a bunch of crackheads. lol


Oh and I haven't heard a lot about Anthers Sonic since I heard he picked up Icies. I'm assuming he dropped Sonic or only busts him out at friendlies.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Anthers Sonic sucks O_o
He went even with mine last time we dittoed O_o.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Oh wow. And you make me cry GF2.





But I was just curious. He's an awesome player and I was wondering if he made any marked improvement.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Anther quit Sonic long ago. I rarely see him ever use the hedgehog, even in friendlies.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Awww... I blame you guys. *smacks Sonic boards* Why'd you all have to be *****? D=<

 

[da K.I.D.]

cus he was bad

 

[MrEh]

and is slow (movement wise, not attack wise)

Bowser runs faster then half the cast. In the air, he's faster then 3/4s of the cast. Bowser's not slow. He's just laggy as hell. lol

I can not see Bowser grabbing a MK more than once a match because he has the poor grab range, so he can not shieldgrab. Only way I see grabs happening is shieldbreaking the MK, otherwise you get outspaced.

Grabs are landed from predicted spot dodges and nado punishing. When you have a grab that terrible, you gotta figure out stupid ways to land it. :/

with the quite long ending lag when it's shielded

Retreat with the Fortress and grab the ledge. That's near unpunishable.

 

[Kinzer]

Awww... I blame you guys. *smacks Sonic boards* Why'd you all have to be *****? D=<

We aren't *****, we just don't like to lie to our buds.

Anyway can anything else be said for teh Boozer? I still stand by my opinion that he has better face stats than Sonic, but has trouble in a tourney scene. MUs are comparably even IMO... of course you can give Sonic the edge when it comes to his lack of "CP or lose" MUs, but otherwise they both have their ups and downs... take some or leave some.

 

[Camalange]

lol, we tried to make Anther better but he wasn't dedicated enough to the Steak :/ He didn't even accept my SBR invite XD

Anyhow Panda, thanks for dropping by. It's interesting to see how your opinion has changed from that epic conversation on the boards long ago...where you thought Sonic was downright trash, to now him being better than Peach.

I disagree that he is better than Peach. She has reliable kill options, unlike Sonic. Sonic's KO potential is what will probably keep him from rising...but I'm not exactly quite sure how good I think he is now >_>

When I first saw Sonic rose so much, I felt like it was totally wrong from the year of us all being shot down, and just being used to him being considered trash. But now that I think about it, he really just does preform outright better than the characters below him, even some that are still above him. His tournament results have been steady for a year now in the 16-20 range...so it's about time people have opened their eyes >_> I think I was mostly bitter to the thought of Sonic being high due to my fun at low tier tournies and getting crowd hype from using low tier, lmao XD

It also seems like every tourney that I go to and every top player I talk with, most agree with him being Mid Tier and far superior to the other low tiers. Yet you still have a few high placing Sonic mains who think that his new placing is outrageous and he should be lowered :/ (Malcolm, Espy, Shugo)...

 

[Espy Rose]

Shugo did have some to do with my opinion of Sonic's metagame. But its more the effort of all the high level Sonics that keep placing high when they go to large tournaments that made many people open their eyes to the fact that Sonic isn't a bottom tier character. Given, there are quite a few people that still don't believe that Sonic isn't bottom tier, but those of us who have seen Sonic in the hands of a good player know better than that.

This, and what you said on the other page are fairly interesting, considering that Sonic gets wrecked by most of the characters you think he should be above.

Tournament results must be very important then.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Sonic's position on the tier list is due mostly to being a tournament viable character because no one's smart enough to pick up his **** match ups. (Marth, G&W, Wario, Olimar, Peach, Meta Knight...)

 

[Chis]

How does Bowser do vs high tiers btw?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Bad.

IC's, Diddy and Dedede destroy Boozer, obviously.

Pretty much everyone else from high tier upwards has at least a 60-40 advantage on him bar one or two who are close enough to neutral.

 

[iSpiN]

Anther quit Sonic long ago. I rarely see him ever use the hedgehog, even in friendlies.

THIS makes me a sad Panda.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Meh. Anther has a nice chu, but Sonic just isn't for people that aren't willing to sell their soul to Sega to be good with him.

 

[iSpiN]

Meh. Anther has a nice chu, but Sonic just isn't for people that aren't willing to sell their soul to Sega to be good with him.

I just liked the representation, even if he wasn't the best.

Also, I wish someone good would use Bowser. He could be somewhere in high tier if he wanted.

 

[MrEh]

IC's, Diddy and Dedede destroy Boozer, obviously.

This is true. If the infinite is banned, then Dedede is actually bearable somewhat, but still not enough to make it a winnable fight.

Pretty much everyone else from high tier upwards has at least a 60-40 advantage on him bar one or two who are close enough to neutral.

Bowser doesn't lose to high tiers as much as most characters in the game, which is impressive considering he's D tier. He does well against the Top, and ok against highs.

 

[iSpiN]

Bowser should probably be higher, but due to no one representing him in tourneys then how can he actually be?

 

[SOVAman]

Bowser needs to step it up and get some tourney placings

 

[Kuraudo]

Hell yeah he's Mid-Tier material. Regardless of if some like Malcolm or Espy think that he's not that high, the fact that they amongst others compete against the higher tiers, let alone good players BEHIND those higher tiers, and still placing...

That says enough about Sonic's potential. The fact that he goes pretty even with Falco, one of the gayest CG-Easy kill characters in the game, amongst the top tiers, is pretty dang impressive.

I think Sonic could drop, but only a couple of ranks. He's staying Mid-Tier with this speed of players. But above all else? I see him potentially rising in Mid-Tier as well. Just not passing Peach. No way.

That match is such a major pain in the ***. LOL