Is Marth the new Marth?

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Thank you Pierce7d

 

[Timbers]

i'm On My Way. Rofl.

Rofl .

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Hey this is teh Marf boards!!22

 

[Pierce7d]

Thank you Pierce7d

Please, just Pierce

 

[∫unk]

@pierce
Those aren't the only characters that force you to approach. DDD, Rob, Snake and Lucario are --in adition to characters you mentions -- are characters Marth has to approach. When you add Falco and Toon Link and Wolf in there as well, that's pretty much every good character with a projectile. And all of them turn Marth in the aggreser. Marth simply can't be considered one of the better defensive characters when there are so many other good characers with either more defensive options or either can force Marth into being the aggreser.

With the way you make Marth' defensive game sound, I can say metaknight is one of the best defensive characters for the exact same reasons. He can perfect shield projectiles, stop some with the tornado, and shut down approaches with his insane priority. On top of that, he can shield grab well because of his grab range.

However, he can still be forced into approaching due to his lack of projectile. Metaknight, like Marth, can play great defence against mediocre characters; however the better one's can and will force you to approach.

Marth is an offensive character. That's where his strenght is.

You don't have to be defensive on the other side of FD you know.. If you're in their face but have a wall of f-airs and tilts they can't get inside your blade, but your close enough where if they try to use a projectile they're easily punished.

Snake is the easiest to avoid this because of his godly f-tilt range, which also explains why he's one of Marth's hardest match ups.

 

[Kitamerby]

Why would I ever have to approach Snake, or Lucario if I didn't want to . D3 I might have to move around a little, but I'm not forced to approach him at all. R.O.B.s projectiles are far from spammable, and I don't even have to perfect shield those.

Because we have nothing to stop us from keeping to camp. If you mess up, you get hit. If you shield, we just keep spamming until you get hit again.

Sorry, but if I'm up a stock, I'll be patient as hell. My best friend mains D3, and he complains about my camping, lol.

That's entirely different, as any character has that capability, and does not make Marth any better at playing defensively.

Yes, Metaknight can be more defensive than Marth. He's faster, and has more range. That doesn't stop Marth from being defensive.

He has more range than Marth? Since when? Some moves might have equal range, but MK has nothing that would ever force an approach against someone with an adequate projectile.

Falco, Pit and Fox can definitely force Marth on the offense. D3, Wolf, and Toon Link can try, but it is highly depended on the stage. It's unadvisable to play defensive against Snake, but doable. If you can't play defensive against R.O.B., you have no patience.

So, you believe that being patient and not approaching at all is equivalent to playing defensively? If I'm ROB, and I hit you twice because you get sloppy, and time is ticking down, why would I ever want to approach? Hell, even if it gets to Sudden Death, I can just spam my lasers and gyro, and what can stop me? Your pathetic attempts at standing still?

Considering that's only 8 characters I mentioned, out of a roster of 35+, I think I can say Marth is pretty defensive as well.

Anyone with an ADEQUATE, spammable projectile can force Marth to approach. What's to stop us?

Marth is good because he's defensive AND offensive AND safe on offense. He's not the MOST defensive character in the game. He has counter and Dolphin Slash, but lacks a reflector which would give him that insanely broken edge. He is still has one of the best defensive stats in the game though.

Your definition of "defensive" is sloppy. Pit can play defensive because of his disjointed hitboxes and a means to force his opponent to approach. Lucario can play defensive because of his means to force his opponent to approach, and his incredible disjointed hitboxes and priority. A counter move and a move with invincibility on startup does not constitute a great defensive game if you have no means to force your opponent to approach.

Unless your name is Pit, Falco, or Fox, you do not have a projectile good enough to make me approach if I don't want to. Perhaps I'll get bored of perfect shielding Wolf's blaster before he gets tired of firing it, since it IS safer to him.

Why do you insist on believing that the camper will run out of patience first? If you mess up, you take damage and if this keeps up, YOU are the one who loses the match, not him. WHY should he stop if he gets bored?

If Falco does his SHDouble Lazer, then I have no problem standing there and shielding the grounded ones. In fact, this often baits Falcos into shooting many grounded lazers, which is when I jump over and Fair him, else I Ftilt him after getting close enough from the double lasers.

If the Falco sees you gaining ground and that you're about to be within ftilt range, what kind of idiot would keep spamming and let you? All he would have to do is do one more SHL and either run away or hit you while you're in shieldstun/busy concentrating on your perfect shielding?

Oh, and Olimar MIGHT force me to approach if he starts spamming Pikman.

Might? They attach to your shield, and you can't keep it up forever. You will take damage if you attempt to play purely defensively.

I don't think you can use combos as a way to say they're similar, because if you did, then Lucario would look like a lot of characters from Melee. Also, Lucario can tend to be on spammy, campy, side.

Lucario CAN be played on the spammy, campy side, but if given a chance, he is strikingly similar to Marth in his abilities and potential.

Lucario is not the new Marth. Stop claiming this without anything to back it up.

Oooh, Lucario can combo. And? Oooh, Lucario has a tipper-sweetspot. And? So do many other people.

See first page. Simply saying "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I SAID SO" or something similar does not constitute a viable argument, nor does it even constitute any sort of proper reply for a discussion.

You don't have to be defensive on the other side of FD you know.. If you're in their face but have a wall of f-airs and tilts they can't get inside your blade, but your close enough where if they try to use a projectile they're easily punished.

Snake is the easiest to avoid this because of his godly f-tilt range, which also explains why he's one of Marth's hardest match ups.

If you're approaching with the intention of attacking first, or even approaching without the intention of attacking first, then you are not being defensive unless you truly do not attack first, which is really a stupid idea if you get that close in the first place. =\ You are playing smart while being on the offensive.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Here is why Lucario is not the new Marth.

One of your arguments was that he can combo, well the best combo(er) in Brawl is probably worse at comboing than the worst comboer in Melee. So therefore you cannot compare them in terms of comboing due to the difference in the games themselves. (Also if you use comboing as a point, Lucario starts to look like a lot of other Melee characters.)

You also say that Lucario has tippers and good aerials, while this is true, (Brawl) Marth has both of these.

You also mention Lucario has chain grabs, many people in brawl do, but Marth has his own set of chain grabs (primarily fthrow), and numerous grab release set ups.

Lucario also is on the heavier side, while Marth (both Melee and Brawl), is one the lighter side.

Marth has never had a projectile, and Lucario's projectile is a key stone in his game. Because Lucario has a projectile, Lucario tends to be on the campy side, and get goes without saying that Marth has never been a campy character (surpisingly though, Brawl Marth has a pretty good defensive game against non projectile users).

Lucario is a bit on the slow side; Melee and Brawl Marth are faster than him (both in attack speed and running).

Melee Marth was considered the best edgeguarder in the game, while Lucario edgeguarding aren't stellar. Marth doesn't have the best edguarding in the game this iteration, but he is up there with the best. Lucario doesn't have an aerial Meteor Smash either, unlike both Marths.

Melee Marth had a fairly good recovery from high angles, and a sub par one from below, Brawl Marth is the same way. In addition, Melee Marth was harder to gimp, and so is Brawl Marth (mostly because of Dancing Blade stall). Unfortunatly, Lucario's innocuous up-b makes him far more easy to gimp.

Lucario feels very floaty, and so does Brawl Marth but to a much lesser extent.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in general Brawl Marth out-ranges Lucario, and Melee Marth was known for his range.

Marth has never been safe on block, but Lucario's smashes come out quite slowly.

It appears that Lucario has trouble killing upwards; Marth has never had this problem.

Oh and of course there is the similarity that (with the exception of shield breaker), Melee Marth and Brawl Marth share all the same moves (with little attribute changes here and there).

Marth has never had aura powers.

When it is all said and done, I will give Lucario some credit, if Marth wasn't in Brawl, then Lucario would be the new Marth.

 

[∫unk]

If you're approaching with the intention of attacking first, or even approaching without the intention of attacking first, then you are not being defensive unless you truly do not attack first, which is really a stupid idea if you get that close in the first place. =\ You are playing smart while being on the offensive.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Being offensive means you have an intention of approaching and hitting the other person. Marth can't hit from far away so he stays close with the intention of punishing with his fast aerials and tilts that have pretty good range. This is being defensive with someone that doesn't have a projectile. In your current description you suggest that characters without projectiles can't be defensive against characters that have projectiles, which is completely untrue.

Marth can't hit from far away, and against any smart defensive player Marth will get punished more often than not for "going in", so it actually isn't a "stupid idea" to get close and wait for the opponent to make a mistake (ex. fire a projectile when you're in dash sh f-air distance).

If we ever meet I'll MM Marth ditto or anyone really and show you that I can be defensive with Marth. It's really not hard it was done in Melee.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Cut this **** out.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Wait who do you want to stop? =/

 

[Emblem Lord]

All of you need to stfu.

Marth is Marth.

And lol@Lucario players coming in here because Lucario has some of Marth's old combos.

 

[Kitamerby]

One of your arguments was that he can combo, well the best combo(er) in Brawl is probably worse at comboing than the worst comboer in Melee. So therefore you cannot compare them in terms of comboing due to the difference in the games themselves. (Also if you use comboing as a point, Lucario starts to look like a lot of other Melee characters.)

I'm looking at standing. By saying that Lucario is the new Melee Marth, I am stating that he is the Marth of Brawl, and better fits the position than the new Marth himself. :D He is one of the best comboer in brawl in comparison to the rest of the cast. If Lucario was in Melee, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?

You also say that Lucario has tippers and good aerials, while this is true, (Brawl) Marth has both of these.

As does Lucario. Read on! :D

You also mention Lucario has chain grabs, many people in brawl do, but Marth has his own set of chain grabs (primarily fthrow), and numerous grab release set ups.

Marth's "chain grab" only works if the opponent is silly! Lucario's is semi-inescapable until/after a certain point!

Lucario also is on the heavier side, while Marth (both Melee and Brawl), is one the lighter side.

Lucario is a midweight on average, but slightly on the floaty side. Lucario's is less noticeable due to his survival skillz, like Melee Marth.

Marth has never had a projectile, and Lucario's projectile is a key stone in his game. Because Lucario has a projectile, Lucario tends to be on the campy side, and get goes without saying that Marth has never been a campy character (surpisingly though, Brawl Marth has a pretty good defensive game against non projectile users).

Your argument is ridiculous. Lucario's B move is useful and has long range. Shieldbreaker is useful and has long range. Lucario doesn't NEED to be campy. Heck, look at Azen.

Lucario is a bit on the slow side; Melee and Brawl Marth are faster than him (both in attack speed and running).

Someone hasn't been combo's by a Lucario yet! :O

Melee Marth was considered the best edgeguarder in the game, while Lucario edgeguarding aren't stellar. Marth doesn't have the best edguarding in the game this iteration, but he is up there with the best. Lucario doesn't have an aerial Meteor Smash either, unlike both Marths.

Your logic can be used against you with some tweaking. Lucario's edgeguard game is very good, as he is very good at gimping. Both Melee Marth and Lucario have been known to have some of the best Dairs in their game. VOILA! SIMILARITIES.

Melee Marth had a fairly good recovery from high angles, and a sub par one from below, Brawl Marth is the same way. In addition, Melee Marth was harder to gimp, and so is Brawl Marth (mostly because of Dancing Blade stall). Unfortunatly, Lucario's innocuous up-b makes him far more easy to gimp.

Someone hasn't fought a good Lucario! :O
If you can gimp Lucario, he's done something wrong! A good Lucario should never be gimped due to his versatility at recovering. His recovery is also greatly enhanced from below on many stages!

Lucario feels very floaty, and so does Brawl Marth but to a much lesser extent.

Fastfall every aerial. BAM! Floatiness gone. :D

Correct me if I am wrong, but in general Brawl Marth out-ranges Lucario, and Melee Marth was known for his range.

Check out Lucario's Fsmash and Aura Sphere and get back to me.

Marth has never been safe on block, but Lucario's smashes come out quite slowly.

Lucario won't use a smash on block. He has other means to make you regret being shielded. >=D

It appears that Lucario has trouble killing upwards; Marth has never had this problem.

Once again, this is silly non-main drivel! Uair is a great vertical kill move on floaties at high % if the opponent is just too stubborn to die, Usmash's starting hitbox is very generous when it comes to KO power, and Double Team laughs at you.

Oh and of course there is the similarity that (with the exception of shield breaker), Melee Marth and Brawl Marth share all the same moves (with little attribute changes here and there).

Ridiculous. Pop in a copy of melee, and tell me that Marth isn't a furry blue jackal with a straight face. I dare you.

Marth has never had aura powers.

Look back at some matches. Ever notice how Marth occasionally seems to come back from the dead, and every so often he seems to suddenly lose after beating the crap out of his opponent? COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT.

When it is all said and done, I will give Lucario some credit, if Marth wasn't in Brawl, then Lucario would be the new Marth.

He still is! You have proven nothing! :O

I stand by my messages, and they are as sound as a violin. If you require further convincing, I shall be in my trailer.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I would correct your post of accuracies, but alas I cannot.

 

[Kitamerby]

I would correct your post of accuracies, but alas I cannot.

Don't bother. I have been dissuaded from this opinion.

I have reconciled my information with some of my fellow Lucarios, and we have decided that we do not require such a silly title as to be the "New Melee Marth."

[17:42] qujvinsu: Lucario is in no way the new Marf.
[17:42] qujvinsu: Thats an insult to Lucario.
[17:42] qujvinsu: He's a sexy beast.
[17:42] qujvinsu: Marf is a girl.
[17:43] qujvinsu: He fights with ****ing spikes coming out of his hands.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf fights with a sissy sword.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Lucario has utaunt.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf can talk... about his nails or something.
[17:44] qujvinsu: And really, who would you rather want to sleep with: a Lucario or Marf?
[17:44] qujvinsu: I think that answer should be quite clear.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Eh, whatever, Marth is still supa manly. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173274

 

[Kitamerby]

Eh, whatever, Marth is still supa manly. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173274

Your link is BS and about as valid as the government's denial of Area 51.

It is purely speculation and has absolutely no physical evidence.

Until I see this "manly Marth" fight a full match, I shall not even THINK about the idea that Marth could ever be "manly."

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Oh, but if you saw manly Marth fight, it would be the last thing you saw. So it's for your own good, that you think otherwise.

 

[Kitamerby]

You but if you saw manly Marth fight, it would be the last thing you saw. So it's for your own good, that you think otherwise.

If you truly meant that, then I would live forever, as there is no such thing.

 

[∫unk]

Cut this **** out.

Yes mom.

I'm surprised you haven't argued anything the past week or so... I guess since Marth is getting some love it's time to move on? I see how it is.

*looks for EL posts in the Ike board*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well, everything seems to be in order in the Marth boards.

Even in the match-up thread whenever a character was posted the community would step it up immediately and post all that they knew about the character. The Marth community is not in need of any type of knowledge it seems since we are all on top of things.

As far as debating goes...eh. I debated a few weeks back about Marth vs PT and then about 4 days ago I debated Marth vs Peach on allisbrawl so I'm still doing what I do best.

 

[Timbers]

And lol@Lucario players coming in here because Lucario has some of Marth's old combos.

I was actually unaware people were taking this thread seriously until today.

Then I laughed.

 

[Kitamerby]

I was actually unaware people were taking this thread seriously until today.

Then I laughed.

SHH! You'll tip them off! D:<

 

[Cloudstealth]

Lol what's the big deal, I main Marth and guess what! He can't camp. OOOOHH! Shocker! Unless his sword shoots wind or fire, or he has lasers coming out of his eyes.....nope just checked. Lucario or ANY character can camp Marth. Last I checked they just hit the B button and a projectile shoots at Marth. So Marth is forced to approach. Your not just gonna stand back and wait, whether playing defensive or not, any smart player will keep camping because they can. The best Marth has is to keep falling off the ledge and UpBing back to the ledge, why because your below their projectiles.

This Lucario rivalry with Marth is almost as dumb as the Pikachu/Falco rivalry going on.

 

[∫unk]

*sigh* someone needs to actually read the posts. Like at least the last page.

You can camp with Marth.

 

[Kitamerby]

*sigh* someone needs to actually read the posts. Like at least the last page.

You can camp with Marth.

Yeah! And Giant Punch is the best projectile in the game!

 

[Doodx]

WTF
hmm i believe that G&W is new melee marth because he can combo abit like old marth did
LOL
sometimes i believe that we should do what smashboards did to the roy forums lol
STOP BEING STUPID!!!
Marth is Marth just like Mario is Mario

 

[alchfilosofer]

Don't bother. I have been dissuaded from this opinion.

I have reconciled my information with some of my fellow Lucarios, and we have decided that we do not require such a silly title as to be the "New Melee Marth."

[17:42] qujvinsu: Lucario is in no way the new Marf.
[17:42] qujvinsu: Thats an insult to Lucario.
[17:42] qujvinsu: He's a sexy beast (*cough*gay fur***, at least be fur*** for hot humanoids beast chicks *cough*).
[17:42] qujvinsu: Marf is a girl (*cough* firs bishonen on videogames, gandpa of the most popular "tales of" character*cough*).
[17:43] qujvinsu: He fights with ****ing spikes coming out of his hands.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf fights with a sissy sword and kills at sicks % like 75%.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Lucario has utaunt.
[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf can talk... about "there is no way i can lose", "All eyes on me!", "today is my victory"...
[17:44] qujvinsu: And really, who would you rather want to sleep with: a Lucario or Marf?
[17:44] qujvinsu: Wait sleep whit lucario = sleep in a dog house... Sleep in marth = sleep in a castle whit tons of slaves so...

Seriously edge hog, if lucario wall clings, fast fall F-air= stage spike, and it can be followed by a foot stool and a D-air.
Just check number of pros and cons
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lucario_%28SSBB%29
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Marth_%28SSBB%29

 

[Timbers]

Yeah! And Giant Punch is the best projectile in the game!

nah, he's right. Marth negates a lot of character's projectile games. You dont' necessarily need a projectile to camp.

WTF
hmm i believe that G&W is new melee marth because he can combo abit like old marth did
LOL
sometimes i believe that we should do what smashboards did to the roy forums lol
STOP BEING STUPID!!!
Marth is Marth just like Mario is Mario

Seriously edge hog, if lucario wall clings, fast fall F-air= stage spike, and it can be followed by a foot stool and a D-air.
Just check number of pros and cons
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lucario_%28SSBB%29
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Marth_%28SSBB%29

******** lol

 

[Cloudstealth]

*sigh* someone needs to actually read the posts. Like at least the last page.

You can camp with Marth.

If your opponent is has no mindgames, or gets frustrated easily. Or just plain doesn't know what to do, then you can camp with Marth. It's not camping, it's just spacing your opponent and running/dodging/blocking projectiles. It just forces you back if anything, so your opponent just keeps getting closer, that's him being impatient.

 

[Tommy_G]

Lucario is not the new melee Marth because Lucario is middle tier.

 

[∫unk]

If your opponent is has no mindgames, or gets frustrated easily. Or just plain doesn't know what to do, then you can camp with Marth. It's not camping, it's just spacing your opponent and running/dodging/blocking projectiles. It just forces you back if anything, so your opponent just keeps getting closer, that's him being impatient.

I guess you need to read more carefully. Considering you're switching between camping and playing defensive as if they're the same thing, I'm not sure you're in any position to be defining whether Marth can be defensive or not.

Playing defensive doesn't force me back at all. I just stay a certain distance away waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. If they move forward then all the better for me I'm playing Marth.

And 2 people can be defensive at once, or one person can decide to go aggressive. This is not from lack of mindgames or being frustrated, but perhaps just a conscious choice in guessing what the opponent is going to do.

 

[Cloudstealth]

I guess you need to read more carefully. Considering you're switching between camping and playing defensive as if they're the same thing, I'm not sure you're in any position to be defining whether Marth can be defensive or not.

Playing defensive doesn't force me back at all. I just stay a certain distance away waiting for the opponent to make a mistake. If they move forward then all the better for me I'm playing Marth.

And 2 people can be defensive at once, or one person can decide to go aggressive. This is not from lack of mindgames or being frustrated, but perhaps just a conscious choice in guessing what the opponent is going to do.

You make some good points. Being agressive is a concious choice for some characters like Meta Knight of course.

You do know that every character plays defensive to a certain extent, so your just repeating basic game knowledge 101. We're talking about full camping here, like making your opponent come to you. I don't really see a way to FORCE my opponent to rush at me. I know how to space and play defensive, looking for them to try something, or make a mistake. But other than that, there is no camping with Marth.

 

[alchfilosofer]

******** lol

so now you realized how were your posts, ********, you seem to catch up fast.

 

[Shaya]

so now you realized how were your posts, ********, you seem to catch up fast.

... *sigh*. At least graduate grade school before expanding your horizons; that is posting on a forum.

Also, Marth can 'camp', just not effectively against Snake, R.O.B, and maybe some of the other projectilers. NOT ALL PROJECTILERS, however.

 

[Kitamerby]

Seriously edge hog, if lucario wall clings, fast fall F-air= stage spike, and it can be followed by a foot stool and a D-air.
Just check number of pros and cons
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Lucario_%28SSBB%29
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Marth_%28SSBB%29

******** lol

Lucario is not the new melee Marth because Lucario is middle tier.

lolwut?

so now you realized how were your posts, ********, you seem to catch up fast.

NO U.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Lucario's pretty good, but as of now he is not considered to be as good as Marth.

_.. ___.._
..\|0v0|/
...|___|
....|..|
....^.^

-- ORLY?

&&&&
|.....@
|......|>
\____<

-YA RLY.

(Sorry, just wanted to post something so I could put this in)

 

[∫unk]

Lucario's pretty good, but as of now he is not considered to be as good as Marth.

_.. ___.._
..\|0v0|/
...|___|
....|..|
....^.^

-- ORLY?

&&&&
|.....@
|......|>
\____<

-YA RLY.

(Sorry, just wanted to post something so I could put this in)

......Junk's respect for TKD just went under 9000.

 

[alchfilosofer]

... *sigh*. At least graduate grade school before expanding your horizons; that is posting on a forum.

Yea i was so ******** all i used were facts. Or could tell me what part of my fixes is a complete bullcrap fact

1[17:42] qujvinsu: He's a sexy beast (*cough*gay fur***, at least be fur*** for hot humanoids beast chicks *cough*).
2[17:42] qujvinsu: Marf is a girl (*cough* firs bishonen on videogames, gandpa of the most popular "tales of" character*cough*).
3[17:43] qujvinsu: He fights with ****ing spikes coming out of his hands.
4[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf fights with a sissy sword and kills at sicks % like 75%.
5[17:43] qujvinsu: Lucario has utaunt.
6[17:43] qujvinsu: Marf can talk... about "there is no way i can lose", "All eyes on me!", "today is my victory"...
7[17:44] qujvinsu: And really, who would you rather want to sleep with: a Lucario or Marf?
8[17:44] qujvinsu: Wait sleep whit lucario = sleep in a dog house... Sleep in marth = sleep in a castle whit tons of slaves so...

1. Only a gay furry would tell "sexy beast" a male lucario whit so much fur. If you call "sexy" to hot humanoid chiks, you cannot be called furry (and i kinda like the furry, but seriously the hard core furries whit fursonas scares the crap out of me).
2. First bishonen of videogames (pit is shota complex, so his original design was not bishie). That is a fact.
3. True
4. True
5. True
6. True, use the smashpedia if you don't trust me
7. Gay cuestion
8. Part true, i guess lucario sleeps in a dog house cause he's like a dog.

Also the difference of number of pros and cons in smashpedia is very big (lucario = 18 pros, 5 cons. Marth= 27 pros, 7 cons).

So seriously, are you going to call ******** someone who speaks whit facts.

BTW. tl;dnr and ts;dnr are the most gay things ever, don't dare to use it

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

They are, I hated when OS did it to me, even though we were joking around.

 

[Peck]

I dont get what you mean. marth is always the same.