Is Falco the best secondary to a G&W main?

[Jahordon]

Falco helps a lot with MK, Snake, and Diddy, and probably can't do worse against Marth or DK than G&W.

 

[DEHF]

marth is one of falco's worst match ups plus marth can cg spike falco at 0 percent

 

[Hylian]

marth is one of falco's worst match ups plus marth can cg spike falco at 0 percent

It's pretty bad for GW as well though lol.

 

[cutter]

There's also DDD as well.

Counters Snake
Does surprisingly well against MK
Clear advantage over Marth

The only problem really seems to be Diddy.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ROB deserves a mention IMO. I personally carry him around as a secondary for some harder matchups.

ROB does well against Snake and Marth. He does better on certain stages than G&W does like Luigis and (arguably) Japes (ROB does better against Falco on Japes I think).

I'm of the opinion that ROB is ok against Metaknight. Most people think he sucks against Metaknight...but I argue that you can at least camp Metaknight. You have counters for the Tornado through camping and F-smash. And you have a good enough recovery to not get obliterated by Metaknight's edgeguarding. Also you have a few good attacks that outrange Metaknight. Notably F-tilt and D-tilt.

I dunno how ROB does against Diddy though.

 

[Plum]

I would vote for DDD for the best in terms of covering the matchup chart but I'm still getting used to the differing play styles of the two..
But he is a counter against Snake, doesn't have nearly as many Marth problems and also goes around 4:6 with MK. So your choice on that one. I'm starting to like DDD in the matchup but I know the matchup with G&W better..

Diddy is the only hole though. Still the counterpick system works much better in your favor than Diddy's IMO. You can take Diddy somewhere where his banana game is shut down but the only thing Diddy can shut down with you is your platform game basically... something like FD is one of G&W's worst stages but it still isn't hopeless where as going to Cruise will be much more harmful to Diddy.

 

[K@0S]

MK is the best. Then DDD.

 

[MagicJosh]

I usually just use D3, but they play so differently its insane.

 

[PentaSalia]

I say to be safe
being familiar with both D3 and Falco is best
D3 does well against snake and MK if i'm correct

Wouldn't be a bad idea considering R.O.B either

 

[Noa.]

I second D3. He seems to be the best, as he can handle both Marth and Snake. And whenever I fight a Diddy with G&W, I tend to win, so I have no problem there.

 

[Jahordon]

I usually just use D3, but they play so differently its insane.

Yeah, I was hoping people wouldn't say D3, because I can't play with him for squat right now. My Falco is pretty good, but I think I'll try to learn D3 as well.

 

[Gates]

D3 does well against MK if i'm correct

LOL WUT?

Dedede has a solid disadvantage against Metaknight. If you know the matchup well enough, you might be able to make it even against some of the less skilled MKs. If the MK is more skilled, you'll still have somewhat of a chance, but generally you'll still be at a somewhat significant disadvantage.

Dedede does not do well against MK.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, still, I lol at how M2K 2stocked every other MK with DDD in tournament.

 

[Gishnak]

I play both falco and gdubs, and the only matchups that I can't handle are Marth and MK.

 

[Sky`]

Falco helps a lot with MK, Snake, and Diddy, and probably can't do worse against Marth or DK than G&W.

Honestly, you're gonna wanna go ahead and pick up DDD.

DDD covers your Snakes, and your Marths.

Not to mention, when you have DDD, there are about 9 characters you can beat no matter what. Due to infinite chain grabs and such, (DK, Samus, Luigi, etc...).

Aaand, DDD isn't that hard to pick up. But when it comes to characters like Falco, DDD gets Scraped, but that's what you have GaW for, right?

Why is DDD Not hard to pick up? Cause all he is, is tech chase prediction, CG's, and Back air. =D
There you go, and in ten seconds of reading, you've got a tournament ready DDD.

 

[PentaSalia]

LOL WUT?

Dedede has a solid disadvantage against Metaknight. If you know the matchup well enough, you might be able to make it even against some of the less skilled MKs. If the MK is more skilled, you'll still have somewhat of a chance, but generally you'll still be at a somewhat significant disadvantage.

Dedede does not do well against MK.

i wouldn't know lol
was just basing my statement on what others said
never played DDD passed friendlies

anyway with all that you said,itd make it sound like DDD totally gets owned
but i think he's still alright against MK

 

[Cubone]

I favor ROB.

He covers snake, goes even with Marth and Diddy, and will tend to do great in general on FD where GW isn't as proficent.

Mk still shoots a hole in this but GL covering him anyway without using MK himself.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, still, I lol at how M2K 2stocked every other MK with DDD in tournament.

That's because he's M2K. Sersiously, if I played Dedede as good as he did I'd 2-stock every MK I came across too. Hell, if I played Ganon as well as he played Dedede I'd 2-stock every MK I came across. This is Mew2Mother****ingKing we're talking about here. He's the goddam Batman.

Why is DDD Not hard to pick up? Cause all he is, is tech chase prediction, CG's, and Back air. =D

Sky, that is not true at all and it's the most disgustingly ignorant thing I've ever heard you say.
You forgot ftilt, utilt, and inhale lol.
(Especially Inhale. Remember kids: If your Dedede doesn't suck, then it sucks)

i wouldn't know lol
was just basing my statement on what others said
never played DDD passed friendlies

anyway with all that you said,itd make it sound like DDD totally gets owned
but i think he's still alright against MK

I don't think Dedede gets completely ***** by Metaknight but I do think it's solidly in MK's favor. It really depends on what you're basing it off of. If it's on really good Dededes like Seibrik, M2K, lain, Fogo, etc., then I can see how you'd think it was about even or maybe advantageous. If you're just looking at average Dededes, you'll get a pretty accurate representation of the matchup in that Metaknight has a pretty solid advantage but doesn't totally ****. If you watch ****ty Dededes like Vex Kasrani then you'll probably think that it's like 80:20 MK at least.

What's generally agreed upon is that Dedede has a bad matchup against MK, but it's by no means his worst matchup. In my opinion, Dedede's 4 worst matchups are the following:

Ice Climbers (G&W's advantage)
Falco (G&W's advantage)
Pikachu (G&W's advantage)
Olimar (G&W's advantage)

Other bad matchups that Dedede has are:

MK
G&W
Diddy Kong
Kirby
Zelda

In the second list, I'd have to say that MK and Kirby (and maybe Zelda) are probably tied for 5th worst. I honestly believe that Kirby is a slightly worse matchup, but MK is just so common that it kind of affects your perception of how you view the matchup (similar thing with Zelda being so uncommon). Personally, I think that a general ratio for the matchup is 60:40 MK - he's got a solid advantage but nothing more.

I'm honestly not sure whether G&W or Dedede has a better time against MK and I don't particularly intend to find out. If I was forced to choose one, I'd probably pick Dedede out of familiarity unless the stage was to G&W's advantage. But in reality, I'd just play MK dittos.

 

[Sky`]

Sky, that is not true at all and it's the most disgustingly ignorant thing I've ever heard you say.
You forgot ftilt, utilt, and inhale lol.
(Especially Inhale. Remember kids: If your Dedede doesn't suck, then it sucks)
.

Oh darn. Sorry, the most important things about DDD, I often forget.

I forgot one more thing.

Kill them with extreme cuteness, and Nair.

Alot.

:3

 

[Gates]

Kill them with extreme cuteness, and Nair.

Alot.

:3

Are you sure that's not Peach?

I understand if you got them confused. They're both dead sexy.

 

[Sky`]

Are you sure that's not Peach?

I understand if you got them confused. They're both dead sexy.

Haaave you tried Nairing with DDD?
It's Adorable! =D

 

[Gates]

lol of course I've naired with Dedede, I main him.
It is pretty awesome. I'd do it more if bair weren't so much better.

Also, using Dedede will get you laid. Video proof:
Sky before using Dedede - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFwdQE6uP4&feature=channel_page
Sky after using Dedede - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enE-F1Thg2E&feature=channel

 

[Sky`]

Lol, I use it to hug people. =]
DDD is somebody whom I'm gonna pick up soon, I think.
Even though to me, he's Stupid hard to Main.

But After Maining Peach for that long, Learning curves and technical skill seem to not be an issue. =D

 

[Gates]

It's funny how maining Peach in Melee meant you had no techskill but maining Peach in Brawl means you have lots of techskill lol.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

SKY and Gates seems to forget about Side B and Back throw.

 

[Gates]

bthrow is great. It's definitely your bff Jill in matchups where you can't cg your opponent. When discussing Dedede as a secondary for G&W, though, it's not that relevant since you'll be playing mostly characters you can CG (Snake, Marth, etc.).

I don't bring up sideB because it's really not that great for spacing when compared to ftilt and bair. It's good for blocking projectiles though. In fact, I think part of the reason why I toss Waddle Dees too much is because for a long time my friend used Toon Link and Snake almost exclusively, so I'd constantly have one out to block arrows and grenades.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

I personally think Snake would be a great secondary for G&W. He covers Diddy Kong, Marth, goes even w/ Snake (obviously), and does better against MK than just about any other character (besides MK).

 

[POKE40]

I know diddy can help... he can somewhat distract MK to a certain extent
DDD is good yet MK will be a prob

ah... just second MK lol
jk

 

[PentaSalia]

I know diddy can help... he can somewhat distract MK to a certain extent
DDD is good yet MK will be a prob

ah... just second MK lol
jk

lolz why hasn't anybody seriously suggested just going with Mk?
not that i agree with it lol
but it's not a bad idea

 

[7ACE7]

Gotta go with the Dreamland characters on this one. Either Meta Knight or King Dedede.

 

[xX-LeaF-Xx]

Well, I have MK as my Secondary, even though he was my main before GW. Fox and ROB are other chars I use for CPs. Fox is for Diddy & Snake, and MK for Marth, and anyone else I have trouble with. ROB I can use for almost anyone.

 

[PentaSalia]

what characters does R.O.B counter well?

overall i dont think you should switch unless you're facing
marth or snake


but even then you can stay with G&W still if you're confident about yourself
i'd suggest that
G&W till death!! lol

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

G&W till death? You'll experience death if you stay G&W
against a good Marth or Snake. Probably MK too. But
definitely those two.

 

[Owndizzl3r_Ownag3]

Why is everything suggesting ROB will handle marth. ROB v Marth is one of the most even matchups in the game, and if you are using ROB as secondary you probably won't be as skilled with him. This basically means your ROB probably won't be able to beat a Marth main who is of equal skill to you.

 

[PK-ow!]

lolz why hasn't anybody seriously suggested just going with Mk?
not that i agree with it lol
but it's not a bad idea

It's a trivial solution. Uninteresting.
EDIT: For one reason or another, everyone who doesn't main Meta Knight right now has some sort of reason not for doing so. This reason would still apply to MK as Secondary, and presumably, impel one to search even for alternate solutions to his CP problems.


About Diddy... I hear Jigglypuff is a counter. The Diddy boards have this as a strong counter, while the Jigglys understate that. I'm not sure who to believe (probably Jigglys are closer if the Diddys are dealing with underrepresentation), but then the fact remains Diddys are (a) uncomfortable, and (b) at lower levels, inexperienced, around Jigglypuff.

I am seriously picking it up myself just to CP Diddy. It's my excuse for using Jiggles in competitive play.
Jigglypuff, it's awesome fun. Join me.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

An excuse to use Jigglypuff in competitive play? I'm contemplating doing that.

 

[Gates]

Jiggs counters Diddy?

No ****ing way.

I gotta investigate this.

 

[iPikmin]

just olimar...

 

[_Phloat_]

Wdf. Jiggs counters Diddy?

If that turns out to be true, I'll pick the ***** up.

 

[Mystic101]

toon link is a great snake and diddy counter, but he is my main and requires alot of skill to bring him up to his potential, G&W vs meta apperently just got harder sooooo.. and my 3rd main is wario,wario would be a great secondary to having a good matchup agenst alot of people who will kill G&W fast, all 3 work well togetther, team DI.