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Is Diddy Kong Really The Problem Of Smash 4?

the101

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Just because he's doing well now doesn't mean he'll do well in the future. The game hasn't even been out for a year, and people are already talking bans.
This game hasn't even been out for a year, and people are already going back to Melee.
I can't really stand it; characters within Melee who perform similar combos to the "OP" characters in Smash 4 are celebrated. The latter are condemned. Do people not want this game to mature, or are they just too attached to Melee's mechanics? I agree with Omni. Melee is burdened with helping the Smash community endure and also poisons it for stuff like this.
 

TheArabSamurai

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I thought I was alone on this, thank you based senpai. In all seriousness though, practicing and learning match-ups isn't that hard. Diddy players are pretty common as well, so it should be easy to find a sparring partner.
 

Sonsa

Smash Champion
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Diddy is no Meta Knight in Brawl or anything, he's fine and we'll adapt. Villager is actually a great counter to Diddy! Ill try and practice more, maybe someday I can show yall.
 

MarioMeteor

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I mean, a week ago M2K won a tourney pretty much just rolling and sheilding and grabbing, and then proceeded to call the community scrubs for not getting better and knowing how to deal with Diddy by now.
I mean, I don't necessarily agree with how he handled it, but he's right. The games been out for nigh 4 months now. You'd think one character wouldn't be so much of a problem now. Although like I said, Rosalina is stil the better character.
 

LordCQ

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Actually, most people in For Glory think they can "scare" when they use Diddy, using that overrated combo with banana + grab + throw up + Up A + Up A... Trick is to let them come at you instead of you going after them. Quite sad.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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I agree. When this game came out, people were calling Bowser OP, then Mac, then Rosa, Lucario, Sonic, etc. We have gotten lazy to the point that we don't bother to learn a matchup.
Diddy may have an unfair follow up but he is nowhere near the level of Brawl Meta Knight or Melee Fox. Meta Knight himself could invalidate lots of characters without them even having a chance.
Although I'm not opposed if they nerf that follow-up by giving it some knockback
 

Jmanthesmasher683

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Diddy was top tier in brawl too, but he wasn't there for long. I think smash 4 might have the same events for Diddy. Besides, one banana is a huge nerf for him. And to think, he used up all his bananas in brawl. Now he ran out of them. lol
 

Rango the Mercenary

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You couldn't make a more senseless argument if you tried. I pretty much stopped taking him seriously before the Batman quoting part, which just annoyed me. You're not some hero because you advocate a top tier. It's 2015. We live in an age where unnecessary overpowered characters get nerfed to keep the game balanced. We patch the game so the game is accessible to anyone who wants to use any character.

You know why so many people waited for Smash 4 and ditched Brawl the moment it came out? To get away from Meta Knight. To be able to play as Mario, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf, and their favorites without the pressure of being forced to switch because their character was balanced poorly and everyone is barking at them to "pick a real character."

I'll agree with you on one thing - it is too early. It's much too early to patch the game. We don't have national tournament results and the game is still developing. Dedede, ROB, and Mr. Game & Watch were early top tiers before being knocked out in place of Ice Climbers and Olimar. That took years, but nothing changed on the lower side of the tier list. Only a few characters were viable, limiting the diversity of the roster and alienating players from the game.

Smash 4 is the most balanced game in history. Everyone has a favorite they can use, and many of these characters have untapped potential. Is the crying over Diddy justified? Yes. Does he need a patch? It wouldn't hurt. Taking away his early kill combo still gives him safe aerials, tons of strength, the bananas, and the best non-tether grabs in the game.

Because honestly, this whole "advocating top tier" mentality is the worst thing you can do to the game. Hordes of players switch out their favorites to play a "best" character just to get wins at tournaments. This is a practice known as selling out. You will not be recognized because you carried yourself through the tournament using your character. You merely relied on the strength of a character by observing tactics that give you a considerable advantage over the rest of the roster. You're a dime-a-dozen player who used the same character everyone else did.

I have a lot to learn about this game. We all do. But when you castrate the roster to only a few select characters to advocate playing the best characters, you're supporting a paradigm where the only way to win is to "pick the best or die." Then it becomes the circle-jerk of top playing top tiers, and anyone who wants to use their favorite to win is either fighting an uphill battle the entire time or is pressured to conform to top tier. What does that mean? Less variety in tournaments. The game will become the joke of the fighting game community, just like Melee did (Fox only) and Brawl (Meta Knight and Snake dominating brackets). It gets tiresome quick.

If a patch is made, what happens? The game becomes more balanced and people aren't living under a dark cloud of knowing another conformist Diddy (or Sheik/Sonic/Lucario) is coming for them. The patch is very likely to happen, and I'll tell you now the first patch the 3DS version got was warmly welcomed. No one said, "this is BS, my favorite character is gone." Because the characters that needed buffs got them, and we worked them to our advantage.

And if we didn't get a patch, we at least have the grace of knowing this game is balanced enough where we can adapt. No more edge-hogging, shield-pushing off stage, or tripping to slow down characters. All it takes is a little time to adapt.

And quite frankly, Diddy is kind of overrated. Extremely annoying, but not the menace that Meta Knight and Snake were in Brawl.
 

SonicSpeed240

Smash Rookie
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Honestly, i'm gonna come right out and say it because i absolutely love the point Omni made here.
THIS GAME IS SO WELL BALANCED THAT I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANYMORE. yes, coming over to smash 4 from M or Melee certainly took some adjustments, but that process in a whole had nothing to do with the character cast. This game has new dynamics now, take it or leave it. down throw into up air, the hoo hah combo, can work for almost any character. I rock people with that same combo using Lucario. Getting to know a character inside and out can make them good enough to fight anyone, counter picks are almost non existent in this game, (or at least they did a good job in giving everyone a fair chance). Diddy is good, no doubt about it but by no means is he OP. I can use Bowser, Ike, anyone from the bottom of the tier list and have a fair chance against a diddy or win non the less. I main Sonic and honestly i feel more OP as him then i do playing diddy lol. People just have to accept the game is different now, it's not the characters ruining it. People have to want to adjust to the change or it's just not going to work for them anymore.
 

Los4Muros

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After reading a post from Mew2King telling that he thought it was Sheik the overpowered character, I began thinking Diddy Kong was not so strong if I took a second look about him. At the same time, until we give it enough time, we won't need a patch since we don't understand how the characters work entirely. If Sheik is better than Diddy Kong, then that would mean all or most of the Tier Lists are wrong and we're arguing a ban for the second Top Tier.
The guy mentions we shouldn't be complaining, but not entirely.

The game does need to get a balance. At least shorten the difference between the characters match-ups. When having Zero Suit Samus, Sheik or Link facing against a Diddy Kong, I find it a good challenge, yet I can only blame myself for certain mistakes I make and understand that it is possible to win those matches if I polish my game style.

But when playing with Samus, Zelda or Ike, I find it impossible and a joke to just try. There does need to be a balance between the characters. Pull some down or push overs far up. Because it feels unfair unable to use some of my favorite characters that for a decade I've been waiting to use on tournaments, yet to the day it hasn't been possible. I don't think Banning is a solution, but nerfing does seem legit.

Then again, if Nintendo asked me if the game should get a patch, I'd tell them to give it time. We still don't understand the characters and there's no need to move pieces we don't know where they should belong.

Ps. I believe it will be Sheik at the end of the generation who'll be overpowering all over characters.
 

Gionni

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As I said many times before, diddy isn't a problem for me at least, the best characters in smash 4 are probably sheik and a really good rosalinda. For those who think that diddy will be forever and ever the best, do you remember sheik in melee, for a lot of time she was the best not fox, things can change
 

Gionni

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The Melee Community is a large portion of the Smash community, and the most disapointed about Smash 4.
I don't see many top professionals from Brawl refusing to play SM4SH (ADHD, ESAM, Nairo...).
In other hand, top Melee players are rare in Smash4 community.
I love Melee, I love watch Melee, but you must accept that Melee community have major problems in accepting any other smash game, and usually are big crybabies about them.
give this man a medal, man you're statement is so right sometimes, but seriously who of the top melee players do you see playing smash 4, mew2king excluded, I saw hungrybox in one tournament and ken plays it but that's it
 

Patrick Ray

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I'm just sick of fighting him that's all. He's boring to fight and he just seems dull. Him and charizard are to me the most boring characters to have a match with. Duck hunt is up there to.
 

Zeallyx

Fox mains get all the girlz
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So true.

I never got the Diddy hate rampage and Omni pretty much sums up why. Let's all just get Hoo Hah'd with a smile guys. Just like we get up throw upair'd, uthrow rested, dthrow Fair'd, Utilt tipper Fsmashed and shine dair'd in Melee with a huge grin<3 Just learn to 'Hoo Hah' back, but with your own character. Lots of characters still have untapped potential. Heck, possibly all of them. Let's get to it!
 
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Protom

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THANK YOU
Was trying to explain this to a twitch chat a few days ago. Of course it fell on deaf ears.
...then again it's Twitch...
But honestly the fact that top players with a lot of influence in the smash 4 community saying "diddy OP plz ban" is the worst. They're giving people this mindset that diddy really is like meta knight in brawl, and that it will be like that forever. It will only BE like that forever if they don't open their eyes and see that there are ways to counter him (DI) and that he is no where near meta knight levels of broken..
 

9Tales

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Haha, that was a kind of self righteous finish to his speech but whatever casue I agree he's saying a lot of the right stuff.

The really important take away as far as I'm concerned is that people should calm their ******** because too much of it "poisons" the community's perception. I've honestly thought of Diddy hating as like this "metaknight carry over" mentality. Like everyone got so used to hating on metaknight that when this game came out everyone was just circling like a hawk trying to pick out "the next metakinght." And that essentially the intent and take away of Diddy hating. It's an attempt to make Smash4 out to be like Brawl, like this game with a serious balance issue that should be taken less seriously.

that mentality is REALLY easy to nurture in your own mind because everyone's ego loves to blame their failures on outside factors. "I lost because you were Diddy not because I'm bad" Even if Diddy is better than everyone else (which i'm really not sure he is) the balance gaps in this game are just SO small relative to all the past smashes. even the weakest characters are relatively much much more closely balanced with the best characters.

And the game is really fun in general <3 I definitely get a little annoyed by people who ***** about it or try to degrade it's competitive value.
 
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M@v

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Regardless how good or bad you think he is, its going to be interesting when the majority of apex top 32 is Diddy like I suspect it will be just due to his oversaturation in usage right now. I'll sure Nintendo will love that :4diddy:.

If I'm wrong though, color me surprised because I don't think diddy is that bad. He's just a lot easier to play well than most of the other good characters right now.
 

link2702

Smash Champion
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god i really hope smash4 doesn't go down the path brawl did....

half the community refuses to admit a character is a problem (to be fair, I will say it is a tad early atm, after a year, maybe year and a half we should have enough data), keeps denying it for 2-3 years as the game's attendance starts to dwindle, by the time the game is 4 years old, entire community admits the character was problematic and should of been banned, but now "the game is too far along, and banning said character won't save the game"

After a year/year and a half, if diddy is still dominating tournaments, and nintendo doesn't do anymore balance changes, the community needs to seriously deal with the issue this time.
 
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M@v

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Remember, we have only had 1 or 2 national sized events so far; games 2 months old. APEX will be the first time we will see a true national with a large sample sized, that will have competitors from all around the country in large numbers.
 

USA •Se7en•

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I have a problem with Diddy, but it isn't the hoo hah, it's the way people use him. In Brawl, Melee, and 64, top tier characters were OP, but there was a variety to how people used them, you can tell the difference bewteem Hbox's and Mango's jiggs, but for Diddy, you really can't. It's just the same down throw up air, banana slip forward smash. It's like all Diddy players are merged into one Diddy entity.


 
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Meek Moths

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this video is pointless because smart people have already realized that diddy is just a fad and the stupid people who didnt know that will always stay stupid so they dont deserve to know the truth for their badness.
 

Kirby Dragons

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Everyone seems to think that :sheik: is the strongest. Diddy is around 4th on the list, though.

Most characters are either fast or powerful. Well, Diddy is fast and powerful. His side special, as a kick, does a good job at combining the two stats.

It and Rocketbarrel Boost prevent Diddy from being a :4littlemac:. The Kong's smash attacks have great range, power, and knockback. Pretty much all his attacks have little to no starting lag.

So yeah. Like Brawl, Diddy is high on the list. There are still a few above him, though.
 

qwillinallthefish

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I'm honestly hoping for Japan to wreck us with Yoshi or some other character so people get off the Diddy hype train. Once we realize other characters exist, Diddy won't feel as good. He's only the best right now because he has been used more and is easier to use.
 

PingPongCop

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mario and docter mario isnt low tier. they are op and you my friend are **** because you main them. they are *****es to fight
Mario is definitely a good character, but Doctor Mario?

Kid, please.
 

RanserSSF4

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give this man a medal, man you're statement is so right sometimes, but seriously who of the top melee players do you see playing smash 4, mew2king excluded, I saw hungrybox in one tournament and ken plays it but that's it
DJNintendo confirmed he likes the game and plans to participate in teams!
 

DunnoBro

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The problem is imo we're playing without customs. Diddy is probably the closest to optimal efficiency with his default set. Many characters get bread and butter combos at or far beyond what diddy is capable of.

I'd prefer any calls for nerfs be made after a customs meta.
 
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RanserSSF4

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The problem is imo we're playing without customs. Diddy is probably the closest to optimal efficiency with his default set. Many characters get bread and butter combos at or far beyond what diddy is capable of.

I'd prefer any calls for nerfs be made after a customs meta.
I love customs. Just sucks we didn't unlock all of them yet. In a year down the line, all of us should get all of them unlocked. The exceptions of Miis and Palutena! Once that happens, the metagame for Smash 4 will get more fun and interesting to watch and play!
 
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