Is Diddy Kong Really The Problem Of Smash 4?

[RIP_Lucas]

Lol, I've been saying for a while now diddy's dominance is overrated (not to mention I think sheik is actually better everywhere but the very top level), so I agree with pretty much everything. I am in favor of a mild nerf to up air's knock back, but I doubt think it's absolutely necessary.

What I do think is that pros need to start using different characters. Watching diddy after diddy is boring. Pikachu, Sheik, ZSS, Lucario, and many others are more than capable of beating diddy if you play it right. It's not easy, but it is a lot more fun

 

[Weeman]

Like I said, pick up a secondary who can do that if your main can't. If a matchup is unwinnable, at any level or against any character, I don't think anyone would object to a secondary, since one main isn't going to cut it for everyone. M2K, Armada, Hungrybox, PPMD, and Mango all do this, it's part of why they're the best 5 Melee players in the world, and part of why M2K is the top player across games. Azen did this, Ken did this, Isai did this, NEO did this, and many others.

Yes, i agree, the more characters you know how to play, the better. But my point is that beating Diddy isn't as simple as just picking another character, so it's better to not understimate them either.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Sorry, I forgot to quote the post for that. I need to start doing that more.
For secondaries, I'd only recommend it if the MU seems unwinnable, or if there's a few tools that are really needed. Which was part of that.

 

[Acryte]

The Melee Community is a large portion of the Smash community, and the most disapointed about Smash 4.
I don't see many top professionals from Brawl refusing to play SM4SH (ADHD, ESAM, Nairo...).
In other hand, top Melee players are rare in Smash4 community.
I love Melee, I love watch Melee, but you must accept that Melee community have major problems in accepting any other smash game, and usually are big crybabies about them.

That's just plain untrue. Leffen, Armada, Mango, M2K... 4 of the top 6 melee players. What the hell are you talking about.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

My point is that good Diddys aren't as simple minded as you guys seem to imply, so having the mentality of "You can always beat everything that Diddy does" is bad because Diddy can also do the same.

Even if Diddy has better options than most characters, it's a jab. It works really well against both the simple Diddies and top player Diddies if used correctly, even just holding A for 2-3 jabs at most and then acting out of it to avoid punishment or to punish a failed punish on their part works. It worked for me when I played ZeRo online in friendlies, and it works for common Diddies on FG or in wifi/local tournaments.

 

[Anuran]

I mean.. pretty much this. M2K said the same thing a few weeks ago (granted he was being kind of a hypocrite as he was one of the ones complaining)

 

[MIddyE57]

The thing that bugs me about Diddy is that it seems like everyone plays him. It's disappointing to watch a smash 4 top 8 and have > half the players playing Diddy. Smash 4 has a huge roster I really want to see some more character diversity in this game.

 

[Onyxsbayne]

From what I can see, Diddy is really good, but I can definitely see his time coming to an end. It's a pretty simple character, and eventually will be replaced by a character who takes much more skill to play, (my bets on Sheik). Nice video.

And it might be because I only really play For Glory, but the only character I generally have problems with is Sonic, but that's just because he's annoying to fight. I think he's balanced enough to not need any nerfs, and I still hate fighting him lol.

 

[42rockjock]

diddy isn't OP imo. if you wanna see a truly OP character look at brawl MK or pm 3.02 lucas and mewtwo. they were OP. my problem with diddy is that hes so damn easy to use, up to the point where hes brain dead.

 

[AirFair]

I think people are taking the whole diddy thing out of hand. I would agree with Omni here.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Who needs when I have more awesome fighters like ,,,,and (if he's confirmed for DLC) to take the stage.

If wolf gets confirmed I will orgasm until I die.

 

[Modular Zeal]

That end though.... XD

 

[Tino]

If wolf gets confirmed I will orgasm until I die.

I think you need to lay low on those yams.

 

[---]

What are Diddy's weaknesses as a character anyway?

 

[~Burst~]

Recovery. Close to the stage anyways.

 

[FreeZe104]

Meanwhile there are people like me who couldn't care less about the characters others use and blame nothing for their loss besides themselves.

 

[himemiya]

I don't play smash4 but I know diddy isn't as bad as brawl mk/ics people ******* about.

 

[Engage]

You act as though the only people complaining are melee players.
Melee isn't "The most clone ridden smash to date". Every character plays extremely differently. Unlike Smash 4, where nearly every character has the same combos and combo setups (downthrow to uptilt x4/upair
I could write a whole article on why a lot of design choices in smash 4 (like rage) are objectively bad for competitive play.

Are you really only replying because of that? and I never came at Melee, I came at the fact that people from there come at Smash 4 about their clones when Melee has tons of them. And no, they dont really play differently... Ganondorf and Falcon are literally the same, with a few small differences. Throughout the whole series.

And also, the whole point of my post was the Smash community complaining about the newest game and not getting over it. And I can see you're in that group.

 

[Zeiah92]

Do people know how to adapt when playing rather than complaining? The same thing happened in MVC3 that Sentinel was OP blah blah and then nerfed. Now that the metagame has developed a lot, he's not even taken seriously. Same with Wesker who was OP at the beginning of ultimate and is now not used anymore. This seems to be the case in every game where people shout OP and immediately want a patch. What happened to little mac OP? Bowser? They sure stopped being OP quickly and now we have Diddy. Don't get me wrong Diddy is good but I think people fail to adapt.

Take today for example. I main Robin. I encountered a Mario player. The first thing that came to my mind was "Mario: Going to attempt down throws to combo and is going to be using the cape to attempt to reflect me" because I have fought many Mario players. So what did I do? I avoided getting grabbed as much as possible by jabs, jumping/jabs, throwing projectiles when they dont expect it, rolling, etc.. I didn't just stand there and prayed that he didn't grab me. Pretty soon they will have to realize that throwing out grabs all the time isn't working and they will begin to use their other tools (I did end up loosing though since I kept trying to attack when i shouldn't lol)

There's also the recent tournament where in grand finals it was Diddy vs Luigi. It was at beast 5 and if you watch that video, you can see how much they both actually avoid getting grabbed and have to do different options instead. You begin to see Diddy do more than just down throw, up air.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the dude using Diddy switched to Sheik. I repeat, the top player, using a character that people say should be banned, stopped using the character that people want banned, because he wasn't winning with said character.

 

[YELLO]

please dont tell me people are actually taking their "for glory" skills seriously? There is SO much wrong with for glory, not to mention the online mode in general. Online is so laggy that my 5 year old daughter could beat even the best players with spam attacks

 

[Cr@zy &nger]

This video does make a lot of sense In my opinion, A lot of us don't know what we want in super smash bros, Do we want Roy back or do we want Diddy Kong nerfed, we don't know and neither do I. (But in my opinion, I don't want Roy back, Again, It's MY Opinion)

 

[MattyGunz]

Doesn't anyone remember when Little Mac was considered OP? Just wait for the meta game to grow, things are gonna keep changing

 

[Zork]

That's just plain untrue. Leffen, Armada, Mango, M2K... 4 of the top 6 melee players. What the hell are you talking about.

Actually it's an understatement. None of those players you mentioned play Smash 4 seriously or will place at majors except for M2K who also played Brawl seriously.

Literally every top Smash 4 player is a former Brawl player. All these players you've probably never heard of dominating tournaments left and right, seemingly out of nowhere? None of them are new, every last one played Brawl competitively for a long time.

Anyone that thinks the Melee community will move on to Smash 4 is deluding themselves. They didn't even move on to Project M (even before Nintendo's interference), a game specifically made for them .

 

[Zork]

Do people know how to adapt when playing rather than complaining? The same thing happened in MVC3 that Sentinel was OP blah blah and then nerfed. Now that the metagame has developed a lot, he's not even taken seriously. Same with Wesker who was OP at the beginning of ultimate and is now not used anymore. This seems to be the case in every game where people shout OP and immediately want a patch. What happened to little mac OP? Bowser? They sure stopped being OP quickly and now we have Diddy. Don't get me wrong Diddy is good but I think people fail to adapt.

Take today for example. I main Robin. I encountered a Mario player. The first thing that came to my mind was "Mario: Going to attempt down throws to combo and is going to be using the cape to attempt to reflect me" because I have fought many Mario players. So what did I do? I avoided getting grabbed as much as possible by jabs, jumping/jabs, throwing projectiles when they dont expect it, rolling, etc.. I didn't just stand there and prayed that he didn't grab me. Pretty soon they will have to realize that throwing out grabs all the time isn't working and they will begin to use their other tools (I did end up loosing though since I kept trying to attack when i shouldn't lol)

There's also the recent tournament where in grand finals it was Diddy vs Luigi. It was at beast 5 and if you watch that video, you can see how much they both actually avoid getting grabbed and have to do different options instead. You begin to see Diddy do more than just down throw, up air.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the dude using Diddy switched to Sheik. I repeat, the top player, using a character that people say should be banned, stopped using the character that people want banned, because he wasn't winning with said character.

Are you seriously using Marvel as an example of a balanced game? I don't even think Diddy is top 2 in Smash 4 but really? Marvel? You couldn't have picked a worse example.

 

[Kraetyz]

Dude knows what he's talking about. +1

 

[Assassannerr]

I always find it funny with all the people yelling out for the ban, especially when almost 90% of the people calling for it don't even go to tournements, its litterally just a bunch of kids who think they should have a say on things that have no affect on them. I wasn't a fan of MetaKnight being banned in brawl (even though it was more of a half ban but still) and I will not support diddy kong being banned, regardless of how strong he is.

Banning characters ruins the game. Lets not let Smash become like the competitive pokemon game by banning all our characters.

How about instead of looking to ban diddy kong already we tackle something actually gamebreaking...

As long as wobbling is still legal in Melee we should not be banning Diddy kong...

 

[Defo]

Funny how people complained, like Omni said, about Diddy being op yet I never had trouble fighting against that monkey.

 

[TunaAndBacon]

As long as wobbling is still legal in Melee we should not be banning Diddy kong...

If wobbling was game breaking then IC's would be the top tier character in Melee, but their not. Boring and lame yes, but it doesn't dictate Melee's meta.

 

[Aetheri]

Diddy Kong is a decent character but the fact of the matter is, what did people say about characters like Rosalina and Luma, and Little Mac? Too OP, please nerf or ban! now people are focusing on Diddy Kong...

and after all this I still consider Sheik the best character with so many options for combos, just that f-air string is deadly enough a good player can almost guarantee a KO if they set themselves up into it...and the f-tilts can rack up easy damage with very little effort...and a chaingrab to boot if done correctly...downside sheik does have a hard time landing the kill but at the same time, good players will find a way to make it happen because sheik has many options at her disposal...way more options than Diddy...

At the end of the day it isn't the character it's the player, and how they use said character...bottom tier Donkey Kong's (still don't know why DK is bottom) can beat a high level Diddy if they know how to use the character and how to handle the specific matchup...

 

[The Slayer]

5/10 for the video. The point is somewhat a given, but sounding like Sky without his flamboyant energy makes the video a bit awkward to me. But more than likely Diddy won't be moving too far out of the limelight of high tier if nothing ground-breaking is discovered.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

My big issue with diddy is that he has so many other great options to make him a good and interesting character but instead it all essentially boils down to throw bananas>grab frametrap if it hits>uairuaiuair ad infinatum. it's just stale and unhealthy for the game's life IMO.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Thank you omni for saying what needs to be said. I've known for a little while now that you can DI out of Down Throw Up Air but that was a nice comparison with the melee fox up throw up air kill. I agree that Diddy isn't as broken as everyone is making him seem. (Even if he is stupidly boring to watch.)

You wanna start talking about broken or annoying characters, let's bring up Ness or as I like to call him, "Hit back throw to win". Then there's sonic, or as I call him, "That really annoying Side B spammer". Those characters are much more annoying to deal with than Diddy.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

Lmao Omni

Why do you have such incredibly little faith in the community, why are you so against the idea that some characters are too strong for the game (MK in Brawl, now Diddy in Smash4).

I'm not saying Diddy should be banned, but he's definitely overpowered and if he doesn't get nerf in say, the next 6 months, and he's still as dominant, yea he should be banned.

agreed. we don't want another mk on our hands where we're stuck with him due to people getting too attached.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

#1. Just because because ZeRo says Sheik is the best character doesn't mean Sheik is the best character. #2. Diddy Kong isn't thought to be the best character just because ZeRo uses him. Pikachu is the best character in 64 but the best 64 player doesn't use him. Diddy Kong is the best because he's good.

well said. on sheik really it's just a matter of adapting to her and as ive noticed the meta progressing things have just gotten harder and harder for her as people get wiser.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yo Omni is straight up, right on the money. Everyone is just a bunch of freakin crybabies.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Had to be said. Diddy is no problem! Check my thread in the Diddy boards as well!

I made the comparison to Fox and Sheik to! D Throw U Air is not broken, at all!

 

[Aguki90]

/ and have Down throw and up air kills. Depends the situation.

No one see lot because the Smash 4 comunity is a failure understanding that is not melee.

Heck Have throw tha kill better than diddy. Yet no one cares bacause is melee
Ken Combo. Is melee ok.
Too good in the air and sometime have 1-hit K.O. moves, NO one complain because is Melee.
Chaingrab to Death. Is Melee you got that.

Melee players and fans are blind.
Not this cannot be a unpopular Opinion. Everything he say is the True Nature of the Smash community. (Diddy kind easy to kill for its weight...)

 

[Kink-Link5]

This video is incredible.
Smash 4 is totally playable with Diddy.
Diddy don't have any unwinnable MU proven by now.

And that comparison to Melee UThrow -UaAir Fox's, who everybody actually has no problem with, was fantastic.
Please lets make SM4SH be huge.

(I still think the major problem is the love the community puts in Melee turned in pure frustration about Smash 4 don't being Melee 2.0 and in the end make us see problems , when they are not).

It's less complaints that it isn't Melee 2.0 and more that it is Brawl 1.5. The clunky dash mechanics are still in place, the game is still floaty as all hell when Melee is already one of the floatiest fighters out there, basic momentum doesn't even transfer into jumps, just as in Brawl.

 

[Flayl]

Omni was one of those players that jumped on the MK hype train and defended that he wasn't ban-worthy because he wasn't that much above the rest.

History repeats itself.

 

[Epitaph]

As with any game with asymmetrical balance, certain characters will reign better than others until people devise counter strategies for them. Diddy probably isn't broken.