Is Diddy Kong Really The Problem Of Smash 4?

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Mazdamaxsti
#41
I think Diddy needs an u-air nerf, and thats all. I can handle bananas, and all the other things, but the u-air is annoying and, I think, a bit OP. Just less kill power, or maybe a more formatted hitbox. The rest I don't care about.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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TPitch5
#45
I can probably say this. While Diddy does have an advantage against Rosalina, based on the 40:60 average that I've gotten during the Rosalina vs. Diddy analysis, he doesn't completely destroy her.

Also, isn't Diddy's third jump very tricky to use?
 

Cactusblah

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#46
Sonic is a greater problem, Diddy is just more common. The top tiers in general are very badly designed.

That being said, the greatest problem is Smashville and/or lack of Omega stages being picked. Viewers want to see the other stages in the game, not Smashville until they fall asleep.
 

C-SAF

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#48
The Melee Community is a large portion of the Smash community, and the most disapointed about Smash 4.
I don't see many top professionals from Brawl refusing to play SM4SH (ADHD, ESAM, Nairo...).
In other hand, top Melee players are rare in Smash4 community.
I love Melee, I love watch Melee, but you must accept that Melee community have major problems in accepting any other smash game, and usually are big crybabies about them.
Like the video says if u don't love the game don't play it, as a melee player im just much more motivated to play melee (and to a lessar extent PM) than I am smash4. The fact that Smash4 players see this as a problem is really strange to me. Its not some arbitrary hate towards ur game, its just very different than melee. Its kinda more ur problem that ur crying for melee's top players to play it. Who cares if they do/don't like ur game?

The melee community is kinda its own thing is my point. They put their resources to the game they like best.
 

Elite Smasher

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#50
I whole heartedly agree with Omni. This community has far too many sheep rather than leaders which is sad. Smash requires sophisticated, quick, and critical thinking skills, so to see this many sheep follow incorrect opinions is quite sad. I am so done with everyone looking up to Zero as a deity. While it is true he has won some tourneys here and there, he has not faced every smasher out there and I am sure there are some out there bound to be better once they get out farther in the tourney scene (I.e. people like me). Only the most intelligent smashers could have surmised like I have that this game is egalitarian and that no character is better than another. People need to just try to think differently and independently so that they can see from a new perspective everything is fine and smash 4 is of superior quality. They also need to experiment for themselves the best play styles for each character and use heuristics and mind games to play better and thus win and not feel frustrated and think so stupidly.
 

JipC

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Manondorf
#52
Are people saying "Diddy isnt that good" just for the sake of being contrarian *******? I respect Omni and all but c'mon.
Unless we get a patch he's going to dominate for years

Diddy isn't the sole problem though, the top tiers in general are ridiculously better than the rest
 
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UncleCubone
#53
I'm happy there are actually others who actually realize how easy Diddies can actually be. But I also think it's a pretty big shame that Omni actually had to make a video about this. All his points were perfectly valid. People just need to learn to DI, and learn to play the damn game in general. JUST PLAY THE GAME.

It's funny, when the game first game out, I thought Diddy was OP, but now since pretty much every competitive Smash4 player I know has picked up Diddy because he's super-duper-op-omg, I don't really get nervous at all against him anymore, because I have so much practice against the matchup now.
but I still love this (nsfw) :4diddy:

RelaxAlax too. Seriously more people shouod check him out.
I'm a big fan of him, but his content has been kinda lacking a bit since the game actually came out.

Viewers want to see the other stages in the game, not Smashville until they fall asleep.
You said quite literally the best thing I've seen since I've joined these boards.
 
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Filosafer

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#54
I agree that he shouldn't be banned, but it was poor arguing on Omni's part.
The melee and brawl comparisons are null, since we're talking about Sm4sh. Where only 2 character's (his example) have guarantees from a throw, it's a large advantage. And when the other is Luigi, and we didn't know how to certain kill from his dthrow until very recently, having a guarantee follow up that can kill early is VERY strong. Add in a strong recovery, great neutral, and overall high performance, you have a character who leads by a landslide.
If melee fox was in sm4sh, he'd be banned. And Pikachu and MK were clear cut best characters in 64 and Brawl, but fox and Diddy/M2 in Melee and PM are NOT the best characters. That's the reason why they're still in tournaments (I like to think PM will come back). Because even though they have top tier, a lot of characters can win tournaments. MK and Pika were almost always tourney winners, but Melee and PM has plenty of non Fox and Diddy/M2 winners.

this game is egalitarian
Did someone just call this game egalitarian.
 

ShadyWolfe

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ShaDow94
#55
Even posting things like this just bring up more discussion on the topic. If people want a change they will make it known. I do see it possible that another character could arise as spot #1, but I don't think it's likely.
Top pros like Mew2king and CT Zero believe Diddy Kong is the third best character while Sheik and Pikachu are top 2 so he could be surpassed later on when people get better as them two.
 

alek poster

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#56
So far I've beat Diddy with Wario,but I do know someone who could take out Diddy, the guy in the third panel.

:wolf:vs:4diddy:. Can't let you do that Diddy.
I don't think I've ever seen you post something that you didn't manage to relate back to Wolf. Just... give it a rest.
 

Filosafer

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#57
Top pros like Mew2king and CT Zero believe Diddy Kong is the third best character while Sheik and Pikachu are top 2 so he could be surpassed later on when people get better as them two.
I swear M2K said that Diddy was number one of his top six in an interview after a game. My only proof is that he plays Diddy Kong, and he's the most obvious tier ***** on the scene.
 

ShadyWolfe

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ShaDow94
#58
Lmao Omni

Why do you have such incredibly little faith in the community, why are you so against the idea that some characters are too strong for the game (MK in Brawl, now Diddy in Smash4).

I'm not saying Diddy should be banned, but he's definitely overpowered and if he doesn't get nerf in say, the next 6 months, and he's still as dominant, yea he should be banned.
He is in no way Metaknight OP he is more inline with Melee Fox good he has clear weaknesses you can take advantage of and there are two characters in Sheik and Pikachu that are better just harder to use.
 

ShadyWolfe

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#60
I swear M2K said that Diddy was number one of his top six in an interview after a game. My only proof is that he plays Diddy Kong, and he's the most obvious tier ***** on the scene.
He and Zero changed their minds about that and Diddy is still top 3 and is the easiest top tier character to use like how Sheik is good and easy to use in Melee compared to the other top tier characters that is why M2K plays her more than Fox.
 
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Elite Smasher

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Justin3
#61
I agree that he shouldn't be banned, but it was poor arguing on Omni's part.
The melee and brawl comparisons are null, since we're talking about Sm4sh. Where only 2 character's (his example) have guarantees from a throw, it's a large advantage. And when the other is Luigi, and we didn't know how to certain kill from his dthrow until very recently, having a guarantee follow up that can kill early is VERY strong. Add in a strong recovery, great neutral, and overall high performance, you have a character who leads by a landslide.
If melee fox was in sm4sh, he'd be banned. And Pikachu and MK were clear cut best characters in 64 and Brawl, but fox and Diddy/M2 in Melee and PM are NOT the best characters. That's the reason why they're still in tournaments (I like to think PM will come back). Because even though they have top tier, a lot of characters can win tournaments. MK and Pika were almost always tourney winners, but Melee and PM has plenty of non Fox and Diddy/M2 winners.



Did someone just call this game egalitarian.
Through buffing all the characters immensely they have become equal. I know for many this requires a huge leap of logic, but rest assured I promise you that it is true.
 

Yams Everywhere

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#66
The thing about diddy is that his skill curve is incredibly low. A person can master all of diddy's techniques in like 20 minutes. With fox and sheik in melee, it takes an incredible amount of time and skill just to get the fundamental techniques down with the character. Also, due to the nature of melee, characters like fox can be punished incredibly hard. It's very difficult to get diddy in a huge combo because the up air comes out so fast and is an excellent combo breaker. With characters like ness and luigi that have kill throws/ kill set ups, they lack the options in nuetral that make them so good. Diddy has a banana, a command grab and an up air, bair, and fair that can cover his options very well. Although I do agree that people need to stop complaining about diddy and should rather focus on how to counter him, there is no denying that the character is the best and most brain dead, and he deserves a nerf.
 

Puppyfaic

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#68
Diddy Kong is top tier for the CURRENT meta. The game is still changing and evolving, yes, but FOR NOW, Diddy is in a spot that makes sense.
 

NotAnAdmin

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#69
S A D B O Y S

To be serious though, I don't hate Diddy or anything, I just hate that he's easy, and as one of the elusive Lombardi mains, I'm a bit jealous.

I want easy as crap grab setups that can kill, at most Falco has is the dthrow>dash or dthrow>bair, which doesn't work past 70% on most characters. The fact that Diddy is efficient enough to take a stock at 90 or so percent consistently is what seems unfair. With a good player like M2K or anyone else with exp, they can react quickly to your DI, and Smash4 DI isn't as strong as before.

If Falco could at least get lasers back up to par he would fly back up the tier list, but if I lose to a Diddy, I blame myself, because it's my skill level that isn't there, we all must adapt.
 

Fatmanonice

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#70
I've said this before but I feel like people forgot how crazy good Metaknight was in Brawl. Five reliable methods of recovery, some of the best momentum cancelling moves in the game, incredibly safe kill options, planking, several moves that caused tripping, no true disadvantageous matchups, unparalleled gimping ability, shield pokes, stayed on top of the tier list for all but the first few months of the metagame, had about half a dozen matchups that were pretty much deemed unwinnable against him, and even an advanced technique that was banned because it pretty much broke the game. SSB4 Diddy doesn't even comparee. I also don't think Diddy will always stay on top and, compared to Brawl, I think this game will have a much less one sided metagame.
 

Filosafer

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#71
Through buffing all the characters immensely they have become equal. I know for many this requires a huge leap of logic, but rest assured I promise you that it is true.
Jesus, that had nothing to do with what I said, and it's untrue. Go back to playing Brawl- and ranting on r/Atheism.
This game is not as unbalanced as many claim, but Diddy is easily top due to his overall superiority. He may not be the BEST in any one category, but being so strong in so many areas makes him too good. His down throw to up air isn't OP because of high level play, but because complete newbs can use it, and be disillusioned into thinking they're in high level play. His skill floor is so ridiculously low, that at this stage in the meta, he's LM. We just have to help improve the meta so we can accurately determine the tier lists.

EDIT: Hold on a sec. Are you saying they buffed every character from the previous games? Because that's just wrong as well.
 
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Elite Smasher

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Justin3
#72
The response is super overwhelming. I'm like... honored and really glad that you guys even gave the video a click let alone listened to me ramble. Lol. Love you, guys.
Thank you so much for actually being a leader and not a following sheep. Thank you for also trying to enlighten the community rather than let history repeat itself. It is so refreshing to know that there are fellow intelligent smashers in this community.
 
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Faver_Jo
#73
This man speaks the hard truth, the players are the biggest problem here.

I literally cheered when he brought up Melee throw conversions that are the exact same deal but to an even more extreme, I've been telling so many people that throw conversions are not only a common thing in Sm4sh but in the series in general. Sadly it continues to fall on deaf ears.
 
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ZomBiehnU
#74
I dont see Smash 4 dying at all or no where near the anytime soon, and yes more top tier character set up combos will be discovered, this games still fresh and new
 

Engage

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#76
People don't seem to understand the point of the video. It's NOT Diddy Kong at all he talks about. It's how the smash players themselves and the "quote unquote" Professionals "quote unquote" of Smash keep crying over Smash 4 things. "Ohhh, Rage is stupiiiddd. Ohhh, Diddy Kong is brokeen. Sakurai is a bad developer oooohhhh. Super Clone Bros. 4 Ohhh, Dark Armpit and Female Marth and PHD Mario Ohhhhhhhohohhohoh. (Why do they say this when they play Melee, the most clone ridden Smash to date?) But anyways. The Smash community is what makes the game good, not the character line-up. The fact that Chozox got top 8 in Paragon using ARMORED SAMUS and ALMOST got top 7, proves Diddy isn't the issue, it's the players themselves. They fear Diddy too much, causing them to lose easily, all people must realize, Diddy Kong sucks off stage. If you can gimp his flip to the point where it won't help him recover, then you can easily gimp his jetpack with a well timed attack with a lingering hitbox such as Palutena's neutral air or Pit's down B or DK's neutral air, many attacks can block his edge recovery on his jetpacks, causing a death. Diddy is NOT a threat, you people out there just give him too much credit for being such an easy to use character. Most Diddy's you fight want to do 1 thing and 1 thing only. GRAB. If you don't let him get in to grab you and you pressure him, you can easily stop a Diddy Kong in their tracks with Tomahawk into grab fake outs (Look up Tomahawk if you're confused about Smash terms).

But, that's enough out of me. Here's the TL;DR for all of you lazy people.

Diddy is not the issue, we are as a community. We cannot accept our game, our 3 month old game, as it is. And always have to complain about it. If you dont like it, don't follow it. Don't play it. Also, Diddy Kong is the 2nd coming of Little Mac, when he's offstage, his recovery options are limited. If he cannot monkey flip, he has to up B, his Up B is bad, so use a lingering hitbox that is well timed to gimp him. He's not a difficult match up when you don't let him grab you either.
 
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Elite Smasher

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#77
Jesus, that had nothing to do with what I said, and it's untrue. Go back to playing Brawl- and ranting on r/Atheism.
This game is not as unbalanced as many claim, but Diddy is easily top due to his overall superiority. He may not be the BEST in any one category, but being so strong in so many areas makes him too good. His down throw to up air isn't OP because of high level play, but because complete newbs can use it, and be disillusioned into thinking they're in high level play. His skill floor is so ridiculously low, that at this stage in the meta, he's LM. We just have to help improve the meta so we can accurately determine the tier lists.

EDIT: Hold on a sec. Are you saying they buffed every character? Because that's just wrong as well.
While your argument about Diddy having a low learning curve is accurate, you are wrong in claiming the game is not balanced. You're stuck in the old world rut of tiers and dominators.... Smash under smash 4 has revolutionized. Smashsonian thought has become much more progressive through the way that the game is set up; any character has a fair chance against any other character. If you refuse to accept this new and progressive thought then this argument is over..... Actually since we both agree that Diddy is not the best, which is the sole purpose of this entire article, we are done. If you want to disagree with my thinking that is fine and is expected, but I don't wish to waste my time talking to some one of inferior logical reasoning capabilities and therefore I won't reply. Either way, may you be enlightened and enjoy the rest of your day!
 

Elite Smasher

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Justin3
#80
People don't seem to understand the point of the video. It's NOT Diddy Kong at all he talks about. It's how the smash players themselves and the "quote unquote" Professionals "quote unquote" of Smash keep crying over Smash 4 things. "Ohhh, Rage is stupiiiddd. Ohhh, Diddy Kong is brokeen. Sakurai is a bad developer oooohhhh. Super Clone Bros. 4 Ohhh, Dark Armpit and Female Marth and PHD Mario Ohhhhhhhohohhohoh. (Why do they say this when they play Melee, the most clone ridden Smash to date?) But anyways. The Smash community is what makes the game good, not the character line-up. The fact that Chozox got top 8 in Paragon using ARMORED SAMUS and ALMOST got top 7, proves Diddy isn't the issue, it's the players themselves. They fear Diddy too much, causing them to lose easily, all people must realize, Diddy Kong sucks off stage. If you can gimp his flip to the point where it won't help him recover, then you can easily gimp his jetpack with a well timed attack with a lingering hitbox such as Palutena's neutral air or Pit's down B or DK's neutral air, many attacks can block his edge recovery on his jetpacks, causing a death. Diddy is NOT a threat, you people out there just give him too much credit for being such an easy to use character. Most Diddy's you fight want to do 1 thing and 1 thing only. GRAB. If you don't let him get in to grab you and you pressure him, you can easily stop a Diddy Kong in their tracks with Tomahawk into grab fake outs (Look up Tomahawk if you're confused about Smash terms).

But, that's enough out of me. Here's the TL;DR for all of you lazy people.

Diddy is not the issue, we are as a community. We cannot accept our game, our 3 month old game, as it is. And always have to complain about it. If you dont like it, don't follow it. Don't play it. Also, Diddy Kong is the 2nd coming of Little Mac, when he's offstage, his recovery options are limited. If he cannot monkey flip, he has to up B, his Up B is bad, so use a lingering hitbox that is well timed to gimp him. He's not a difficult match up when you don't let him grab you either.
Thank you for being a leader, an intelligent one that is, in this community.
 
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