Is Diddy Kong Really The Problem Of Smash 4?

[AuraMaudeGone]

Add grab techs to Smash and that avoids most of this.

 

[EazyDI]

Diddy kong isn't the best shiek is. The best player in smash 4 (Zero) just happens to main diddy kong.

#1. Just because because ZeRo says Sheik is the best character doesn't mean Sheik is the best character. #2. Diddy Kong isn't thought to be the best character just because ZeRo uses him. Pikachu is the best character in 64 but the best 64 player doesn't use him. Diddy Kong is the best because he's good.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

How is Pikachu top 2?

Great kill moves and setups, great recovery, good throws, great edge guarding and offstage game, little to no recovery frames on moves, and is a fast character with a spammy projectile. Ask Zero on his Youtube channel he can explain it in much more detail than me.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

will be the Wesker of Smash 4.

Good, and thought to be broken at first, but then people learn he has weaknesses.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

I agree that he
If melee fox was in sm4sh, he'd be banned.

If melee fox was in this game it would be interesting :kappa:

 

[~Burst~]

Wrong. The problem isn't us. Its grabs. Its not that we just want to complain we just feel as though something in the game doesn't mesh
There are a plethora of characters in this game that get options off of a down throw and that is the problem. Why the hell would I poke at your shield with something when I can just grab which, more than likely, has less cooldown than most of your other options and gives you more options.
Does everyone just not see the amount of times people get grabbed in a match? You know its coming but you can't do anything unless you have a move that comes out dumb fast and even then they can just shield stop grab so they guard whatever you throw out. The Neutral is pretty much guess when I'm gonna run in and shield grab.

 

[kesterstudios]

I think Diddy needs an u-air nerf, and thats all. I can handle bananas, and all the other things, but the u-air is annoying and, I think, a bit OP. Just less kill power, or maybe a more formatted hitbox. The rest I don't care about.

i agree that's really the only thing needs a nerf on. his up air is too powerful for how fast it is.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wrong. The problem isn't us. Its grabs. Its not that we just want to complain we just feel as though something in the game doesn't mesh
There are a plethora of characters in this game that get options off of a down throw and that is the problem. Why the hell would I poke at your shield with something when I can just grab which, more than likely, has less cooldown than most of your other options and gives you more options.
Does everyone just not see the amount of times people get grabbed in a match? You know its coming but you can't do anything unless you have a move that comes out dumb fast and even then they can just shield stop grab so they guard whatever you throw out. The Neutral is pretty much guess when I'm gonna run in and shield grab.

There's an advanced technique introduced in Melee.

Hold onto your hat because this is some technical ****.

If you press on the shield button and then tilt down, you can preform a highly complicated technique called a "sidestep". The sidestep is capable of ignoring anything for a brief moment, including grabbing. I know it sounds like a very complicated move for minors, but with raw determination and practice, you can create the biggest shift in any metagame since wavedashing.

 

[Portapus]

Personally I think that's part of the fun: figuring out how to take on a character who currently dominates the tier list. Diddy kong isn't really overpowered, a proper approach hasn't been figured out yet

 

[~Burst~]

There's an advanced technique introduced in Melee.

Hold onto your hat because this is some technical ****.

If you press on the shield button and then tilt down, you can preform a highly complicated technique called a "sidestep". The sidestep is capable of ignoring anything for a brief moment, including grabbing. I know it sounds like a very complicated move for minors, but with raw determination and practice, you can create the biggest shift in any metagame since wavedashing.

Unless you know when the grab is coming that doesn't work and you will get grabbed for the troubles or hit with a meaty smash attack. Like I said you have to guess when its coming running in and shield stopping gives you time to react to whatever they do and just press A to punish with 0 effort. Smart guy.

 

[Weeman]

His combo might be easy to do, but that doesn't mean that Diddy as a whole is easy to play, people just get salty, really.

 

[MarioMeteor]

mario and docter mario isnt low tier. they are op and you my friend are **** because you main them. they are *****es to fight

The sheer stupidity in this one comment alone is awe-inspiring.
Anyway, Rosalina is still better.

 

[Fatmanonice]

will be the Wesker of Smash 4.

Good, and thought to be broken at first, but then people learn he has weaknesses.

Comparing SSB4 to Brawl, I think Diddy will wind up being the Dedede of this game: somebody who starts out as stupidly good thanks to a few core strengths but gets slowly whittled down once people actually figure out the strategies of the decent ones.

 

[Lemon Girl]

Diddy isn't even close to Brawl's Metaknight. People just seem to call OP at everthing they dislike, Diddy isn't broken, he's annoying to fight, huge difference.

 

[Engage]

Thank you for being a leader, an intelligent one that is, in this community.

Had to put the issue straight man.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Unless you know when the grab is coming that doesn't work and you will get grabbed for the troubles or hit with a meaty smash attack. Like I said you have to guess when its coming running in and shield stopping gives you time to react to whatever they do and just press A to punish with 0 effort. Smart guy.

Literally every Diddy Kong player runs up to your face and tries to grab you. No exceptions. It gets so extremely predictable it's not even funny.

 

[Weeman]

Had to put the issue straight man.

Great post! Though i disagree about the part where you say he isn't a threat, i agree he isn't OP or overcentralizing, but he is definitely a really good character.

 

[Engage]

Great post! Though i disagree about the part where you say he isn't a threat, i agree he isn't OP or overcentralizing, but he is definitely a really good character.

Oh he is definitely a good character, but he is as Little Mac. Strong on stage (and in the air as opposed to Mac), but when he is offstage, you can take him down.

 

[flying_tortoise]

Why does Omni gotta compare Diddy's Uair to Fox's Uair? You can smash DI out of Fox's second hit on up-air ....(which means it's escapable, hard but you can practice it)....
And he acts like you can be good at fox easily, lolol it takes months or years of hard work

 

[WarioWaft]

Using Wario and Olimar, I enjoy the challenge of facing a Diddy.

The satisfaction of winning with a Wario Waft or Pikmin smash is just too much.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

I mean, a week ago M2K won a tourney pretty much just rolling and sheilding and grabbing, and then proceeded to call the community scrubs for not getting better and knowing how to deal with Diddy by now.

 

[Weeman]

Why does Omni gotta compare Diddy's Uair to Fox's Uair? You can smash DI out of Fox's second hit on up-air ....(which is the kill move)....
And he acts like you can be good at fox easily, lolol it takes months of hard work

So does Diddy if you want to play him properly, i mean let's not bring the For Glory mentality here.

 

[MagiusNecros]

He's quick, can combo well, doesn't stay in hitstun, has a moving command grab with followups, can generate his own items, has a projectile along with being easy to pick up but hard to master.

Point is fast characters with these tools will easily be top characters as opposed to the heavies who are huge and less mobile and rely on bait and punish to deal the bulk of damage.

With Diddy and other aggressive and combo speed characters they have more options and versatility.

Do I think any sole character is the best? No. Will learning how he plays and how to play against him help the metagame evolve? Yes. Is it appreciated that most have a pocket Diddy like most have a Pocket Little Mac and think they are a hotshot? No not really. However you have to live with that stigma and play your favorites. Even if your favorites are Mac and Diddy. Which isn't anything to be ashamed of.

 

[Raheem The Dream]

I wish that we smash players on any glory mode can actually use customizable movesets, so that this discussion about Diddy Kong wouldn't be a big deal problem for this Smashboards Community!

 

[flying_tortoise]

So does Diddy if you want to play him properly, i mean let's not bring the For Glory mentality here.

ehhhh, that's more of just basic fundamentals of the game which can be learned from [any character]. But you kind of have a point.

Btw sry I edited it to say months and years for the Advanced Tech thing, b4 I noticed you respond to me. Didn't mean to [change my post]

 

[DavemanCozy]

Last night, I was present at A&C in Toronto and witnessed Nakat tear every Diddy in Ontario using

I remember him posting once in the discussion thread that the MU was even, and I'm convinced about that now.

Diddy is definitely one of the top in this game, perhaps he is #1 in the tier list, but he's not unbeatable. It's not like he's jumping 6 times, recovering from all sorts of angles or hitting opponents with a moveset full of transcendent priority. This game is far from having a Brawl Meta Knight problem.

 

[~Burst~]

Literally every Diddy Kong player runs up to your face and tries to grab you. No exceptions. It gets so extremely predictable it's not even funny.

This isn't about diddy kong this is about grabs in general. Every player goes for grabs more than their other options. Have you seen luigi's play? It revolves entirely around grabbing and it works when it shouldn't. I have no problem with throws having follow ups. I have a problem with how it tips the risk reward scale out of balance to the point where thats THE option.
Grabs have been strong in every smash game but its stronger in this game because normal don't give as much as they do in melee and throws give more than they did in brawl.

 

[RanserSSF4]

i agree with Omni. No reason to explain why lol

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

While you guys are arguing over grabs, I have one other incredible solution: Holding A to do jab 1 indefinitely with characters like Ike, ZSS, and so on. The variety of characters who can do this is large, so if you have a main who can't do this and want a secondary who can do this, it's pretty much just walking into an ice cream shop and picking your flavor.

It's safe, you can't get grabbed by Diddy Kong, and you hit them.

Ta-da, you win against grabs. Winning is good.

 

[Davregis]

Sirlin and Killian are echoed heavily here. This is a discussion rooted in the older days of SFII.

 

[Dylan Houlihan]

i think sheik and rosalina are better tbh

 

[Weeman]

While you guys are arguing over grabs, I have one other incredible solution: Holding A to do jab 1 indefinitely with characters like Ike, ZSS, and so on. The variety of characters who can do this is large, so if you want a secondary who can do this, it's pretty much just walking into an ice cream shop and picking your flavor.

It's safe, you can't get grabbed by Diddy Kong, and you hit them.

Ta-da, you win against grabs.

Or you get hit with a Fair or a banana instead, don't be predictable.

 

[KillerGum]

People don't seem to understand the point of the video. It's NOT Diddy Kong at all he talks about. It's how the smash players themselves and the "quote unquote" Professionals "quote unquote" of Smash keep crying over Smash 4 things. "Ohhh, Rage is stupiiiddd. Ohhh, Diddy Kong is brokeen. Sakurai is a bad developer oooohhhh. Super Clone Bros. 4 Ohhh, Dark Armpit and Female Marth and PHD Mario Ohhhhhhhohohhohoh. (Why do they say this when they play Melee, the most clone ridden Smash to date?) But anyways. The Smash community is what makes the game good, not the character line-up. The fact that Chozox got top 8 in Paragon using ARMORED SAMUS and ALMOST got top 7, proves Diddy isn't the issue, it's the players themselves. They fear Diddy too much, causing them to lose easily, all people must realize, Diddy Kong sucks off stage. If you can gimp his flip to the point where it won't help him recover, then you can easily gimp his jetpack with a well timed attack with a lingering hitbox such as Palutena's neutral air or Pit's down B or DK's neutral air, many attacks can block his edge recovery on his jetpacks, causing a death. Diddy is NOT a threat, you people out there just give him too much credit for being such an easy to use character. Most Diddy's you fight want to do 1 thing and 1 thing only. GRAB. If you don't let him get in to grab you and you pressure him, you can easily stop a Diddy Kong in their tracks with Tomahawk into grab fake outs (Look up Tomahawk if you're confused about Smash terms).

But, that's enough out of me. Here's the TL;DR for all of you lazy people.

Diddy is not the issue, we are as a community. We cannot accept our game, our 3 month old game, as it is. And always have to complain about it. If you dont like it, don't follow it. Don't play it. Also, Diddy Kong is the 2nd coming of Little Mac, when he's offstage, his recovery options are limited. If he cannot monkey flip, he has to up B, his Up B is bad, so use a lingering hitbox that is well timed to gimp him. He's not a difficult match up when you don't let him grab you either.

You act as though the only people complaining are melee players.
Melee isn't "The most clone ridden smash to date". Every character plays extremely differently. Unlike Smash 4, where nearly every character has the same combos and combo setups (downthrow to uptilt x4/upair
I could write a whole article on why a lot of design choices in smash 4 (like rage) are objectively bad for competitive play.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Or be unpredictable. Or react to stuff. Like me

He can't go for a grab if he holds a banana, and fair is easy to react to out of a jab by rolling, sidestepping, throwing out an aerial while zoning yourself away from his fair, or some other option that beats a fair.

 

[KillerGum]

That said, smash 4 has a chance to grow and I agree smash 4 players need to learn to deal with the meta if they want their game to go places. It doesn't make the game look good if all the people who actually play the game are complaining about it instead of developing counter-play.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

"pros and for glory players alike"

Shows how fooled people are by the title "for glory"

 

[mega4000]

Diddy is just the easiest top tier to use. I think Rosalina is way more overpowered than him, it's just more difficult to use, same as sheik.

 

[~Burst~]

While you guys are arguing over grabs, I have one other incredible solution: Holding A to do jab 1 indefinitely with characters like Ike, ZSS, and so on.

It's safe, you can't get grabbed by Diddy Kong, and you hit them.

Ta-da, you win against grabs.

I pointed that out earlier but not every character can do that or has a jab thats that fast. Also when a jab connects to anything while holding A it goes into the next jab which isn't really safe on shield if they're committed to the grab the shield will eat the jab and they're getting a grab.
Not to say this isn't a good option this works really well against characters that aren't top speed. This is where top tier characters and in your face speed are able to punish the jab attempt with a grab.

 

[Weeman]

Or be unpredictable. Or react to stuff. Like me

He can't go for a grab if he holds a banana, and fair is easy to react to out of a jab by rolling, sidestepping, throwing out an aerial while zoning yourself away from his fair, or some other option that beats a fair.

My point is that good Diddys aren't as simple minded as you guys seem to imply, so having the mentality of "You can always beat everything that Diddy does" is bad because Diddy can also do the same.

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Like I said, pick up a secondary who can do that if your main can't. If a matchup is unwinnable, at any level or against any character, I don't think anyone would object to a secondary, since one main isn't going to cut it for everyone. M2K, Armada, Hungrybox, PPMD, and Mango all do this, it's part of why they're the best 5 Melee players in the world, and part of why M2K is the top player across games. Azen did this, Ken did this, Isai did this, NEO did this, and many others. Even if they're known for a particular character, secondaries are the reason they win at times.