Is Diddy Kong Really The Problem Of Smash 4?

[M@v]

I think Mario's default moveset is really freaking solid. Speed fireballs are likely really good too though.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I think Mario's default moveset is really freaking solid. Speed fireballs are likely really good too though.

Mario I think has some of the best custom moves in the game, but I agree with you; His default set is solid!

 

[Auramaniji]

Mario is definitely a good character, but Doctor Mario?

Kid, please.

You're just making a quick assumption, are you?

 

[EpixAura]

There are a lot of differences between Diddy and Melee Fox/Sheik. First, Diddy is a character essentially built around Dthrow->Uair, Fair is an exception, but bananas/Dtilts are almost invariably just setups for a grab. Fox, on the other hand, has most of his moveset being used just as much as U-throw->Uair, and much more difficult to pick up as a character than Diddy.
As for Sheik, I could talk about the few people who manage to beat top Sheiks occasionally despite the fact that's she's the primary reasons their character isn't viable (Amsa, and to a lesser degree, Axe come to mind, among a few others), but even I know that's not something that happens consistently. It's not strong evidence. Sheik is still different from Diddy in the same way Fox is. She's not entirely based around one combo. She has one of the strongest combo games of the entire cast, and Dthrow->Fair is not the reason. While she may invalidate half the cast, many of those characters struggle almost as much with other top tiers.

The other thing about this video that bothers me is the fact that's it's ignoring another one of Diddy's issues. He's incredibly boring to watch as a character. While this seems like a small issue, streams and videos are incredibly popular, and one of the biggest (possibly THE biggest) factor in growing the community. The thousands of viewers certainly don't want to waste hours of their lives watching Diddy players pull off the same combo over and over watching the already-simplified neutral lead to the same basic combo again and again. As far as top tiers go, Diddy is far and away the simplest top tier we've seen in a Smash game, and that is not a good thing.

 

[Tattles]

mario and docter mario isnt low tier. they are op and you my friend are **** because you main them. they are *****es to fight

Your 15 year old is showing.

 

[Aninymouse]

I agree with Omni.

 

[κomıc]

I've long noticed that Diddy isn't the only one with almost guaranteed "grab to kill". Palutena's D-throw to u-air may not be as strong or as fast as Diddy's but when she is in RAGE mode.. Cross your fingers. It is even disjointed, at least, that's what I hear... I main her too. It's something I often use to kill and feels much safer than Diddy's U-air.

It's going to be a very interesting ride seeing where the Meta goes. I remember several characters being top in Brawl and over time falling off as Metaknight and Snake reigned supreme. I remember the hate for ROB and then people swooning over the poor Robot when they found out he good he really was. I do think Diddy will remain on top, but as the game matures, some of the best characters at the moment will for sure fall off and maybe some others will climb to the top. I see Ness, Kirby (to an extent) and Pikachu climbing their way up based on what I've seen and the outstanding potential.

Unfortunately, my lovely Palutena may remain at the bottom but it certainly makes matches fun and challenging for me. She isn't my only main (Kirby and Ness since N64) but I'm really loving her play style and I'm happy to have stayed faithful considering she was one my most requested to be in Smash (okay, maybe second after Hades, tbh). I remember people saying "OMG Palutena is going to be SO OP!" when she was first announced and some of her Pic of the Day segments. In extreme cases, people talked about banning her (and Miis) because how heavily customizable she was long before release of the game.

*flips weave* Of course, that fell through.

Someone will eventually find a sure-fire weakness to Diddy Kong and everyone will be hopping aboard that train and create another potential problem.

 

[9Tales]

He's incredibly boring to watch as a character. While this seems like a small issue, streams and videos are incredibly popular, and one of the biggest (possibly THE biggest) factor in growing the community. The thousands of viewers certainly don't want to waste hours of their lives watching Diddy players pull off the same combo over and over watching the already-simplified neutral lead to the same basic combo again and again. As far as top tiers go, Diddy is far and away the simplest top tier we've seen in a Smash game, and that is not a good thing.

If this were true, then to me it just serves as further proof that the metagame is really undeveloped still. There's no way such a complex game degrades down to one combo over and over. At this point in Brawl's life (3 or 4 months in) everyone thought Snake was the most OP. He doesn't even grace the top 5 now.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

Your 15 year old is showing.

Because of the cussing or his opinion? The only thing wrong with Doc is his recovery...

 

[Ichel]

Diddy Kong is powerful but not inmortal, I think there are characters that are more difficult to win against diddy but is not impossible.
The weak point of the monkey is his recovery, i gimped a Diddy kong with Sonic's spring and Pacman's fire hydrant LOL

Omni... you are a genius
Like = My respect (y)

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Sure Diddy's got some interesting moves that really make him stand out, but he's not godly by any means.

Diddy's like Mac in some ways... He seems like a huge threat at first, but his entire moveset's destroyed the moment you dodge his grab.

However, that goes without saying characters like Diddy and Mac are far too simple and repetitive for my personal respect. But I'm assuming the trade-off is "certain very powerful combos" vs "viability of overall combos."

 

[Zethoro]

You act as though the only people complaining are melee players.
Melee isn't "The most clone ridden smash to date". Every character plays extremely differently. Unlike Smash 4, where nearly every character has the same combos and combo setups (downthrow to uptilt x4/upair
I could write a whole article on why a lot of design choices in smash 4 (like rage) are objectively bad for competitive play.

I'm sorry, but...what?
Every character plays incredibly different? I'm pretty sure Doc, Pichu (and to a lesser extent, Falco, Roy and Dorf) play very similarly to their normal counterparts. I like Melee a lot, but even I have to admit it has its share of clones.
In addition, I think rage is a great mechanic. It lets players ahead get further ahead, allows for comebacks, and is a way to give heavies a bit of a boost since many of them are big targets, and consistently top tiers are small, fast characters.

 

[(Buddha)]

When Mewtwo is released will the whole current tier list be reset?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

He looks like a bald version of Tight Eyez

U kno Krump?

 

[Trigspro789]

Diddy Kong be like Can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am

Diddy Kong: WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER ALL OF THIS AWESOME!!! (Like if you get the reference)

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

Just gonna post what I did in the video's comment section.

What I don't think most people realize is that it's not just Diddy's "HOO HAH" combo that makes him powerful; like M2K once said, that's just a gimmick. Sure, it's effective, but it's not OP. No, what REALLY makes him strong is his ability to utterly abuse the game's tech.

I'm by no means saying that Diddy is broken, but he's definitely above everyone else. With every new tech that's been discovered, Diddy has benefited greatly from it -- more than any other character has -- and when you combine them all together with him, he's a nightmare to put up with. But, of course... this takes a high level of skill. He's basically this game's Fox.

This is something both sides of the argument really need to acknowledge, because it's a crucial factor.

 

[Effay]

I really don't see how this is an unpopular opinion. I can't help but feel that Omni makes a great argument in this video that most Smash 4 players would relate to. If Diddy was so "overpowered", I imagine that Will wouldn't have beaten Mew2king.

 

[The_ToolBag]

I dont think omni gets it. Its not that its broken, its that it takes no skill

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I dont think omni gets it. Its not that its broken, its that it takes no skill

As he covered in the video, neither does Fox's up throw to up air, which can't be DI'd out of.

 

[Roll-Spamming-Peasant]

As he covered in the video, neither does Fox's up throw to up air, which can't be DI'd out of.

sure, but we're trying to work towards perfect balance if we can help it. Just because that happened in melee doesn't mean it should be put up with now.

 

[FireBall Stars]

Interesting topic to be discussing, unfortunately the arguments weren't very well put together. Good job at trying at the matter though.

Is diddy a problem when compared to other top tier characters? No, they're all really good, I'm sure we can have a healthy metagame with just them. Something similar happens with Melee.

What makes a top tier in game is usually one or more traits that most other characters do not have, either by a bad design choice or pure balancing overlook. Only very rarely top tiers aren't a byproduct of development errors, regardless of being just better than most or straight out broken.

Would nerfing diddy do good for the metagame? Definitely, as well as other top tier characters and buffing some other characters. The closer all characters are, the more diverse and rich a metagame can be. Sadly, in game where free-for-all performance of characters is taken in heavy consideration when balancing, that seems unlikely to happen.

The game is very simple this time around, figuring out which characters should be buffed or nerfed shouldn't be difficult for an experienced fighting game developer after at least a four month period.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

sure, but we're trying to work towards perfect balance if we can help it. Just because that happened in melee doesn't mean it should be put up with now.

Diddy's CAN be DI'd out of, though. It's not a guaranteed combo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Diddy Kong: WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER ALL OF THIS AWESOME!!! (Like if you get the reference)

You beat me to it! ^_^

 

[PingPongCop]

You're just making a quick assumption, are you?

No -_-

Don't get me wrong, I love the Doc, but definitely not as good as Mario.

 

[Sgt-Sol]

Well we know what we want..... we want Wolf

 

[Trigspro789]

Whoever needs salt because of the video, come to me. I've got lots of it.

 

[Octavium]

I feel like Diddy Kong is simply too easy to perform well with, he takes little concentration to play the fundamentals effectively.

 

[The CheeseCake]

If you're a pro most characters can be terrifying. Look at Yoshi. He was considered a semi-low tier character in melee and then aMSa came along. Regardless of that, being easy to master doesn't make him a flawed character. I think Diddy will reign supreme on the tier lists but perhaps not be as "OP" and unbeatable as initially perceived.

 

[Auramaniji]

No -_-

Don't get me wrong, I love the Doc, but definitely not as good as Mario.

You might be right in a way, but i've yet to see a match that proves it.

 

[Aetheri]

Here's the thing it's not the fact that the character is OP, but it's the fact that players figure things out with that specific character then good players pick him up and start winning with him...I'm sure they could've managed to win with other characters but since everyone's saying 'Diddy is the best' and players who play to win will use the 'best character' to do so...The Diddy Storm will settle and people will start praising or ******** about some other character due to some new tech....But at the same time the player's skill comes into play and sometimes even 'op Diddy' players will lose simply because the other player adapted to the matchup more effectively...

 

[Dekrem]

You're right Omni. I'm not even a tourney competitor (just play for glory every once in a while), but when I watch streams, I've gotten into the habit of wanting to see Diddy lose every time I see a match with him. And because of that, I get less enjoyment out of watching these tournaments overall.

You're totally right: I can't let Diddy ruin my enjoyment of watching a Smash match.

Thanks so much for posting that video.

 

[Jugoken]

if your still complaining about diddy after watching brolylegs use LUCINA to beat a good diddy player in Kit15 pools your a lost cause. He cant even use his hands, he uses his tongue and cheek And KICKS A**!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yDWVIhucU

 

[HyruleSmasher]

i don't have a problem Diddy, well maybe because i don't play competitively

 

[Omegascizor456]

I mean every character has a counter and Diddy's counter is... avoid his grabs at all costs because I mean even though he is ridiculously powerful you can still dodge him as zero did

 

[Sonic94]

diddys are annoying but i haven't had much trouble with them

 

[HeadSchott]

Just. Stop. Play the game and have fun.

 

[XOSugar]

I love customs. Just sucks we didn't unlock all of them yet. In a year down the line, all of us should get all of them unlocked. The exceptions of Miis and Palutena! Once that happens, the metagame for Smash 4 will get more fun and interesting to watch and play!

Wait, why Palutena?

 

[PurpleDolphin]

I just feel like people spend more time complaining Diddy is OP rather then trying to find ways to counter him. M2K said that in Paragon he just exploited the fact NO ONE KNEW HOW TO DI (or vector) OUT OF DIDDYS DTHROW UAIR. If we spent more time learning how to counter diddy he wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Moose of the Law]

Diddy is definitely one of the most powerful characters in the game. But OP or broken? Not a chance. Just because Diddy has one effective grab combo, doesn't mean he deserves a ban, nor is he as bad as Meta Knight in Brawl. Like Omni said in the video, other characters have just as powerful grab combos. Luigi in particular has a grab combo jusy as effective. It's just that Diddy is getting more attention. Plus, the reason Meta Knight was broken was because he trumped every other character in the game with his amazing recovery and fast and powerful attacks. Diddys only "broken" mechanic is the down throw to up air combo. Otherwise, Diddy has nothing that makes him overpowered. Honestly I think the only nerf Diddy needs is maybe a change in angle with his dthrow or damage nerf with his uair. Otherwise, Diddy is just as powerful as every other character in the game. Besides, it's too early in the game's lifetime to decide whether or not he should be banned. People are judging this way too fast and I agree with Omni. Diddy isn't the problem. We are.

 

[SmashShadow]

The main complaint I have is overcentralization of 1 character. There are around 50 characters in this game and about half the matches I've seen have included a Diddy Kong. I got tired of watching him really quickly.