Guide Intro To Samus + Character Match-Up's

[Rat]

Shooting missiles gets them deflected... if not jumped over and so begins the Dair/Shine combos that lead to my death.

-hm... it sounds like he was reading the balls off you. Don't commit to shooting a missile once you jump.

My friend said that the reason he catches me in the back-and-forth-cross-stage dair combos was because my DI was bad... but it seems no matter where I smash the CStick/Control Stick, he just keeps hitting me over and over and over...
I'm really at a loss for what to do.

-Try DIing up. Usually this forces an Uair or Bair.

And after I started UpB'ing outta shield a lot, he's been shielding it like 1/4 of the time as well. :/
Works pretty good though...

-If they start shielding, it's a good thing. Start WDing out of shield to craziness

I managed to win our last match of the day after getting 2-4 stocked about 30 times on the day with Samus.

-Nice job. I usually don't improve until like weeks later. =(




It sounds like he is just a lot better than you. Practice predicting. Like start saying what he will do.

Anyways, There are a few things that help me through this match-up.
1) You're ****in' Samus.
-You live to a Bazillion%. Falco lives to 5%.
2) You're ****in' Samus.
-Ledge camp that *******! One dsmash and there goes his entire stock.
3) You're ****in' Samus.
-Falco is afraid of you. He can safely attack with what? Lasers? Ftilt? Grab? Please.
4) You're ****in' Samus.
-Seriously. What could be better than that?

 

[Rat]

Stupid Double post. =(

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

-Try DIing up. Usually this forces an Uair or Bair.

The shine hits you up and the dair hits you downwards, so DIing up won't really have any effect (you have to di perpendicular to the original trajectory to get any effect. You cant go more up from an attack that sends you up through diing up lol.)

F8, Just DI away from the shine. remember that the shine hits you up and slightly away, you'll want to DI in the direction you're being sent in
that way he'll have to wd out of the shine to reach you, which will give him less time to follow up
which means that he will have to do his dair earlier in the jump so that you can usually jump away or nair or bomb ore whatever between the dair and the next shine
And don't just randomly mash/smash the control sticks when you're diing, you need to think

 

[HT F8]

The shine hits you up and the dair hits you downwards, so DIing up won't really have any effect (you have to di perpendicular to the original trajectory to get any effect. You cant go more up from an attack that sends you up through diing up lol.)

F8, Just DI away from the shine. remember that the shine hits you up and slightly away, you'll want to DI in the direction you're being sent in
that way he'll have to wd out of the shine to reach you, which will give him less time to follow up
which means that he will have to do his dair earlier in the jump so that you can usually jump away or nair or bomb ore whatever between the dair and the next shine
And don't just randomly mash/smash the control sticks when you're diing, you need to think

Thanks, I've just recently started getting the hang of DI. It's rough when all you have to pratice against are Lvl1 CPUs. :/

DI away from the Shine, got it.

-hm... it sounds like he was reading the balls off you. Don't commit to shooting a missile once you jump.

Yeah, most likely. Thanks for the tip.

-If they start shielding, it's a good thing. Start WDing out of shield to craziness

The few times he does shield are just to try to deflect my UpB-OOS. So no WDing there. I'll keep that in mind, though.

-Nice job. I usually don't improve until like weeks later. =(

XD I wouldn't exactly call it improved... maybe lucky? ^_^
Thanks though.

It sounds like he is just a lot better than you. Practice predicting. Like start saying what he will do.

Yep, he's a lottt better. I'm trying to get to his level so we can help each other improve.

Anyways, There are a few things that help me through this match-up.
1) You're ****in' Samus.
-You live to a Bazillion%. Falco lives to 5%.

This was something I failed to mention. Samus' edgeguarding is oh-so sexy, but I'm never quite in position... I.E., he's off the map charging firefox, I'm on the other side ledgehopping back to the stage. Just general suckage for me, I suppose.

2) You're ****in' Samus.
-Ledge camp that *******! One dsmash and there goes his entire stock.

Ah yes, I was doing that a bit, but it usually got me shield pressured into ShineDair for the Fall. :[

3) You're ****in' Samus.
-Falco is afraid of you. He can safely attack with what? Lasers? Ftilt? Grab? Please.

O_O
It's more like:
SHL Moving Laser -> SHL Moving Laser -> SHL Moving Laser -> SHFFL Dair -> Shine -> SHFFL Dair -> Shine -> SHFFL Dair -> Shine -> OSHI-
My shield just got raeped.

In my head I'm saying "Why didn't I just UpB OOS!?!?"

But when I was in the match it only seemed to work out like 50% of the time.

4) You're ****in' Samus.
-Seriously. What could be better than that?

There is no reply to such a great statement.


Thank you, everyone. Any further help is appreciated in advance.<3

 

[AIDS]

I have news I recently learned...The flames in Falco's up B do not have a hit box. I now know why it is so easy to gay him. Just walk off the edge and fall with a Nair, you win.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have news I recently learned...The flames in Falco's up B do not have a hit box. I now know why it is so easy to gay him. Just walk off the edge and fall with a Nair, you win.

...

You're finding this out NOW?

 

[AIDS]

...

You're finding this out NOW?

The fact of flames having no hit box, yes. I always spaced it out before. lol
I never knew till this weekend.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Yhea F8 i see what you mean, DI is one of the hardest things to learn when it comes to smash
read dorakis guide if you havent already btw, that cleared up lots of things that confused me about DI when I was learning

 

[HT F8]

The fact of flames having no hit box, yes. I always spaced it out before. lol
I never knew till this weekend.

o.O

Yhea F8 i see what you mean, DI is one of the hardest things to learn when it comes to smash
read dorakis guide if you havent already btw, that cleared up lots of things that confused me about DI when I was learning

Yeah, I've read it over before, still a tiny bit confused. I'd say I have the understanding, just a hard time applying it during matches.

 

[KirbyKaze]

m2k says just wd back and f-tilt/d-smash/u-tilt and up+b out of shield when they mess up.

and that all she has at high level is counter-fighting.



m2k's brutal honesty makes me sad sometimes.

 

[HT F8]

m2k says just wd back and f-tilt/d-smash/u-tilt and up+b out of shield when they mess up.

and that all she has at high level is counter-fighting.



m2k's brutal honesty makes me sad sometimes.

Ah, thank you, and thank you oh great and powerful M2K.

WD OOS -> f-tilt/d-smash/u-tilt. Got it.

Poor Samus. T____T;;;
Makes me sad, too. But it's true.

 

[Stos]

Wavedash back to Fsmash/Dsmash is like really good.

also CC dsmashes is lolers.

 

[KirbyKaze]

After being able to SHFFL 4 Fairs in a row against my friend's Samus and not be punished for it with Marth (he eventually wound up CCing into shield and then WDing back to get away) I have come to the conclusion that Marth may just be a decent Samus counter.

Seriously though if Marth spaces and just wafts around doing tipped spaced Fairs against you all day and D-tilts/grabs when you try to get away is this matchup doable at all?

>_<

 

[HT F8]

After being able to SHFFL 4 Fairs in a row against my friend's Samus and not be punished for it with Marth (he eventually wound up CCing into shield and then WDing back to get away) I have come to the conclusion that Marth may just be a decent Samus counter.

Seriously though if Marth spaces and just wafts around doing tipped spaced Fairs against you all day and D-tilts/grabs when you try to get away is this matchup doable at all?

>_<

Marth raepez Sammy already.

Projectiles do like, nothing. Drop a bomb, he can slice through.
Missle spam? Sliceee.

All Samus can do is slow him down. T_T

 

[AIDS]

Marth raepez Sammy already.

Projectiles do like, nothing. Drop a bomb, he can slice through.
Missle spam? Sliceee.

All Samus can do is slow him down. T_T

you have little Faith. Mindgames + spacing + anoying samus = win.
Marth has upper hand, but not so much that it is massive. He is a small counter though.

 

[NOVA1106]

if u put ur mind in to it and stay calm marth and sheik shouldnt be that hard

 

[AIDS]

Yeah, to many people get anoyed and then throught stratogie and thinking out the window.

 

[Corigames]

I just played in a tournament... and I got Wobbles down to one stock in a $20 MM against his ice climbers :D
Then I got grabbed D:
Then I got deadeded >.<

Then his Sheik 4 stocked me @_@
I couldn't move, think act, respond, john, or mindgame. It was just pathetic.

Then AXE 4 stocked me with Falco X_X
The game literally went- "Ready... GO GAME!!!!"

It made me sad. I think I'm out of practice, but I'm glad that people actually attended this one. It gives me hope that Melee could really be on the rise again and that I could have a chance of getting better by fighting good people more often instead of getting rusty like I have been. Anyway, no johns right? I'll make sure to update this when I think of some more useful things from these experiences and thank everyone who reads this.

 

[HT F8]

It's real easy to say "oh just play better" when you're not the one getting *****, isn't it?

lulz.

I'm not losing faith in Samus, it's just that certain battles are not mine and hers to win.
Like I fail vs Jiggz and Falco, but I do good against Sheiks.

Some people are far too cocky. :/

And poor corey. T_T

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

I just played in a tournament... and I got Wobbles down to one stock in a $20 MM against his ice climbers :D
Then I got grabbed D:
Then I got deadeded >.<

Then his Sheik 4 stocked me @_@
I couldn't move, think act, respond, john, or mindgame. It was just pathetic.

Then AXE 4 stocked me with Falco X_X
The game literally went- "Ready... GO GAME!!!!"

It made me sad. I think I'm out of practice, but I'm glad that people actually attended this one. It gives me hope that Melee could really be on the rise again and that I could have a chance of getting better by fighting good people more often instead of getting rusty like I have been. Anyway, no johns right? I'll make sure to update this when I think of some more useful things from these experiences and thank everyone who reads this.

You cut me deep corey, you cut me deep.




(nedz moar mindgamez[/S extender]?)

 

[rhan]

It's real easy to say "oh just play better" when you're not the one getting *****, isn't it?

lulz.

I'm not losing faith in Samus, it's just that certain battles are not mine and hers to win.
Like I fail vs Jiggz and Falco, but I do good against Sheiks.

Some people are far too cocky. :/

And poor corey. T_T

I see you have deep dedication to your character! :D

But I wouldn't play her aginst Jiggs. I guess the smart choice would be Fox or Marth....But I'd play Link/Young Link aginst jiggs. It seems fairly easier then playing Samus on the fact that she doesn't have many upward killing potential. Aginst Falco though....(my opinon) Samus ***** Falco. Missles and up B's out of shield. Platforms always help aginst Falco also.

 

[HT F8]

I see you have deep dedication to your character! :D

But I wouldn't play her aginst Jiggs. I guess the smart choice would be Fox or Marth....But I'd play Link/Young Link aginst jiggs. It seems fairly easier then playing Samus on the fact that she doesn't have many upward killing potential. Aginst Falco though....(my opinon) Samus ***** Falco. Missles and up B's out of shield. Platforms always help aginst Falco also.

Oh indeed!
She just feels so lacking against faster aggressive characters sometimes. :/
Edit: I'd rather lose than play gay and only use UpB OOS, tbh. It's really almost the only hit I ever land on him.

Unfortunately the closest real tournament is an hour away, and at the moment I'm underage b& and have no license to get there and such... so most of my Melee time is practicing and then playing my friend who's vastly better than me.
And his Falco r-r-***** all my characters.
Andd since we pretty much just play like 10 sets of friendlies, we do less counterpicking and more Mains vs Mains.

Yeah. Sucks. For some reason his Falco 4-stocks my Sammy.
I just break down against overly aggressive people I guess. T_T

Thanks for the matchup advice tho. ^^

 

[rhan]

Oh indeed!
She just feels so lacking against faster aggressive characters sometimes. :/

Unfortunately the closest real tournament is an hour away, and at the moment I'm underage b& and have no license to get there and such... so most of my Melee time is practicing and then playing my friend who's vastly better than me.
And his Falco r-r-***** all my characters.
Andd since we pretty much just play like 10 sets of friendlies, we do less counterpicking and more Mains vs Mains.

Yeah. Sucks. For some reason his Falco 4-stocks my Sammy.
I just break down against overly aggressive people I guess. T_T

Thanks for the matchup advice tho. ^^

No problem on the advice. You don't want to do straight on "main vs main" all the time. Spice up the matches a bit with your friends. Some characters can just murder Samus' (I hate Marth...). So try looking for a secondary that can take them on for what Samus lacks in.

And I'm in like the same situation your in. Luckily I'm pretty cool with a lot of players in my community. As long as I have gas money they're always cool with taking me along with them. I also love my mom for taking me to a few tourneys. Mothers <3

 

[HT F8]

No problem on the advice. You don't want to do straight on "main vs main" all the time. Spice up the matches a bit with your friends. Some characters can just murder Samus' (I hate Marth...). So try looking for a secondary that can take them on for what Samus lacks in.

And I'm in like the same situation your in. Luckily I'm pretty cool with a lot of players in my community. As long as I have gas money they're always cool with taking me along with them. I also love my mom for taking me to a few tourneys. Mothers <3

Yeah, you helped out a bunch in my old thread as well. ^_^

Mhm, I agree. It's all play styles, I suppose. I 2stocked my friend in Samus dittos and then he 3stocked my Sheik. o.O

Yeah, I gotta get some more drive to get around to some tourneys. I wanna get my crew to Alukard's Biweeklys in Jersey but I'm always like "oh i'll try next week..."

Lazy me. T_T

 

[KirbyKaze]

So try looking for a secondary that can take them on for what Samus lacks in.

Honestly if I mained Samus I really do think my secondary would be Sheik.

In many regards you play them the same way, what with your dependency on WD OoS into tilts and d-smash for damage and punishment, you both have awkwardly high short hops so platform wavelands into aerials (or projectiles; missiles for Samus, needles for Sheik) comes naturally for both, and then some of your staples in ground game are fairly similar (jabs, f-tilt, d-smash).

Beyond that her major struggles seem to stem from Marth and Sheik, who Sheik can beat (Sheik ditto is stupid with chain grab although it's rather cool without) and then she's also good at fighting randomly awkward characters like Jigglypuff, Ganon, and Captain Falcon on some of their counterpicks vs Samus (notably FD for Falcon and Ganon). In turn, Samus is pretty good against the characters Sheik has a rough time with (Fox, Falco, and although I REALLY don't think they beat Sheik... the Ice Climbers).

The major differences in the two stem from that Sheik's ground game is also very grab heavy, Sheik spends a lot of her game spacing Fair/Bair, and that Sheik's recovery is much, much different than Samus's but beyond those you could probably play the two in a similar manner.

 

[HT F8]

Honestly if I mained Samus I really do think my secondary would be Sheik.

In many regards you play them the same way, what with your dependency on WD OoS into tilts and d-smash for damage and punishment, you both have awkwardly high short hops so platform wavelands into aerials (or projectiles; missiles for Samus, needles for Sheik) comes naturally for both, and then some of your staples in ground game are fairly similar (jabs, f-tilt, d-smash).

Beyond that her major struggles seem to stem from Marth and Sheik, who Sheik can beat (Sheik ditto is stupid with chain grab although it's rather cool without) and then she's also good at fighting randomly awkward characters like Jigglypuff, Ganon, and Captain Falcon on some of their counterpicks vs Samus (notably FD for Falcon and Ganon). In turn, Samus is pretty good against the characters Sheik has a rough time with (Fox, Falco, and although I REALLY don't think they beat Sheik... the Ice Climbers).

The major differences in the two stem from that Sheik's ground game is also very grab heavy, Sheik spends a lot of her game spacing Fair/Bair, and that Sheik's recovery is much, much different than Samus's but beyond those you could probably play the two in a similar manner.

Ah, I see what you mean.
For some reason I don't think I've thought of it that way before.
Thanks for being much more observant than me. ^_^

At the moment I'd have to put my characters at;
Samus
Jiggz
Marth
Sheik

My Sheik is eh. :/
Needlespam, CG, and Fair ftw. ^_^

I really do think I'd be so much better if I actually had people to play against most of the time. T_T
(Experience Johns)

 

[NOVA1106]

i have the same problem too the nearest smashers sre 2 hours away i have noone to practice against except for lv 3 cpu it seems to work cause im able to keep up with them

 

[HT F8]

i have the same problem too the nearest smashers sre 2 hours away i have noone to practice against except for lv 3 cpu it seems to work cause im able to keep up with them

You find lvl 3 to be more effective for practice than lvl 1?

 

[AIDS]

You find lvl 3 to be more effective for practice than lvl 1?

I only play level 5's
Normally I practise my Falco(secondary) on cpu's, it is more effect for his style then samus vs cpu.

 

[HT F8]

I only play level 5's
Normally I practise my Falco(secondary) on cpu's, it is more effect for his style then samus vs cpu.

Ah, I'll give it a try.
The constant jabs are pretty annoying though. >_<

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

I love level 9s, alaways have, what can I say. I mean, with Samus... what combos am I practicing, anyway? I'm just having fun killing a computer for a quick warmup. Or doing this.

I swear my Melee disc went into beat mode the other day thought. I hadn't played Melee all summer, and I went back and started playing some level 9s... they were owning me! Not just powershielding everything, but instant reflexes (air-dodge my up+b from standing, oh snap), and just general beast-mode aggressiveness. Unrelenting. Anyway. I think it was my Melee disc getting revenge on me for not playing it in so long...

 

[AIDS]

What can I say. I mean, with Samus... what combos am I practicing, anyway?

I agree with this section of your post. That is why I practise my secondarys such as Falco on cpu's. Level 5's can get ***** son!

 

[KirbyKaze]

can anyone sh ff missile and have the missile come out?

is this useful at all?

i can do it on 2/3 speed but normal speed is freaking hard for me -___-

 

[Corigames]

Perfect control MAI BOYYYYYYYYYYYY

But I would practice other things... then again, I don't think I'm a very technical player. I live in AZ where the most common phrase is, "less technical, more forward smash."

 

[NOW]

can anyone sh ff missile and have the missile come out?

is this useful at all?

i can do it on 2/3 speed but normal speed is freaking hard for me -___-

do u mean shoot the fast one or the slow one at will? if u do over + b at the same time the fast one will come out if u hold over and press b the slow one will come out.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Perfect control MAI BOYYYYYYYYYYYY

But I would practice other things... then again, I don't think I'm a very technical player. I live in AZ where the most common phrase is, "less technical, more forward smash."

I need like another hand.

But in all seriousness in EC Canada the way to get better seems to be "More tech skill, more lasers, more gimps."

Or, failing that, play Ganondorf and outsmart everyone. Stupid Kage and PKM.

But yeah, iunno, it looks really cool. I mostly want to learn it because I think it could be a good way to setup approach vs people with gay disjointed hitboxes or massive range because the missile comes out really fast and gives you time to get in, unlike normal missiling, where the window is much smaller, but the flipside is that it's stupidly hard to do and in reality I don't think I'd actually wind up using it much.

edit: NOW the homing missiles are only for gimping and platform tricks I want the strong missile.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Or, failing that, play Ganondorf and outsmart everyone. Stupid Kage and PKM.

Lol. Kage is beaaaaaast.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Blood_Samus]

hey man thanks for this post,i learned SO much from this post..nice work

 

[AIDS]

hey man thanks for this post,i learned SO much from this post..nice work

Thanks for the comment, feel free to ask for any knowledge for anything. This is a very open thread for discussion. Also, welcome to the smash world forums.

 

['Fro]

Well, now that I've cotten more experience, I did want to ask: How do you handle defensive play-styles with Samus? At a recent tourney, here's what I lost to:

1. A Fox camping Corneria.
2. A Falco camping Stadium with lasers.
3. A defensive Peach/Sheik who kept waiting for me to make the first move almost every time, waiting with backwards wavedashes and punishing with Sheik combos/whatever Peach does.

I just wonder how to approach defensive players in general. It's a weakness of mine in every fighting game, but with Samus it's amplified because I'm half-expecting the opponent to be the aggressor. Help...?