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Intro To Samus + Character Match-Up's

Discussion in 'Samus' started by AIDS, Jul 27, 2008.

  1. JerkPhil

    JerkPhil
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    I think Samus beats DK heavily. Even a couple of years back, when I wasn't nearly as good as I am today, I played even with the best DK in Europe (perhaps the world...).
    My play has improved, but the idea has pretty much been the same since then. This is how I play many match ups:
    Shoot missiles when possible, and punish their options against them.
    For example: DK often uses Bair to counter missiles. This means I space my missile cancels so I can punish them Bairing the missile.
    As Barbie mentioned, DK doesn't have the OoS-game necessary to deal with Samus' pressure. If DK CCs and hits you, good for you it only works at lower %s. When you've traded hits to mid %, he can't do that anymore and you're free to Ftilt how much you'd like.
    I'm talking about spaced Ftilts, which he can't shield grab etc.
     
  2. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    DK cant punish a well spaced ftilt, they have to seeing the ftilt coming and CC it, which you can prepare and shield in time for his CC dtilt im assuming should you have spaced the ftilt correctly, really though just spamming missiles helps a ton in this MU, until you get to the high level DKs like Green Ranger, SB, Phishy ect... you need a strong game plan behind... SHOOT ALL THE MISSILES otherwise you really are the weaker player and deserve to lose for relying on a single move to do the work/game for you.
     
  3. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy
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    Hey anyone know stuff about the Ness matchup? The only vid I can find is mofo beating knut.

    Neutral game? Ness's aerials seem to linger in a weird way and his aerial mobility lets him control a lot of space. Like, if he puts an aerial out I can't seem to respond with an aerial of my own after, his hitbox always beats mine or he can drift back to safety. Not to mention the threat of pk fire controls a lot of the midrange. That and cc seems like a bad idea; his attacks usually beat it.

    Also Aay particular way to stop pk thunder2? It seems hard to stuff if he's farther away cuz can't just eat the pk1 and intercepting with an aerial could kill you.
     
  4. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    Just shoot homing missiles off stage, they make it so ness has to Pk thunder 2 farther away and up, or drop down really fast, both options you can cover either with a well place bair, or just stand on stage and up tilt, fsmash or just grab ledge. There are like less than 5 ness mains out there, so I wouldnt worry about this MU too much unless you are running in to this MU frequently at a local. Ness has to start the dash attack pretty far away, or you can CC down smash it I beleive, and his grab range sucks, so that leaves pk fire to make up for the middle ground between the two and the only other option is the dj canceled fairs and bairs, so you know exactly what is coming depending on the direction ness is facing, and that space you need to own by flitting in and from it with ftilts.
     
  5. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy
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    Yea, I fight Simna online fairly often and that dude is ridiculous. Also it seems that I can't win an aerial trade, do Ness's aerial just beat samus aerials?
     
  6. JerkPhil

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    I haven't played a Ness at my level or higher, but I still can't see what they can do against missile spam.
    Edgeguarding is simple though. Either go out and block the upB or hit them during the upB (before they hit themselves), or grab the ledge. Ness has to land on the stage, and has very long lag when doing so. Just hit them back off stage and repeat! :)
     
  7. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy
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    Ness's jumping is super mobile, so he's been able to wade through the spam. I tried to counter the jumps with an aerial follow up but nair, fair, or dair beat my aerial
     
  8. 343

    343
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    Why are you challenging with aerials vs disjointed hitboxes like Ness's fair? Shouldn't you be staying grounded because you're Samus?
     
  9. JerkPhil

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    I don't mean to question your missile game, but I really don't think Ness can easily wade through the spam. The second jump is so slow.
     
  10. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    Bat reflects projectiles, and Ness dtilt egdgeguards samus really hard, cant up b past it, and goes below the stage
     
  11. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

    BillNyeTheSamusGuy
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    I just wanna hit him so bad. Like I just forced him to use his jump(s), he's at a disadvantage but there's nothing to do to capitalize on it.
     
  12. 343

    343
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    @Barbie I don't see how ness dtilt edgeguards are relevant to missile spam

    @BillNyeTheSamusGuy cover his landing instead?
     
  13. ManoxMano

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    up tilt kills ness recovery, its like falcon tier
    Just bait out aerial approaches and whiff punish them with a tilt or a grab as he comes down
     
  14. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    its relevant to the MU in general becasue its pretty spec knowledge you schmuck
     
  15. 343

    343
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    cool, I'm glad I'm a schmuck, and that you clarified that it's not remotely related to missile spam!
     
  16. xleo_samusx

    xleo_samusx
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    I think Samus edgeguards Ness better than he does her atleast, she can reach him while he is trying to pkthunder2 with a power missle if she is too far away. If close a WD offstage into nair or an onstage uptilt covers most angles that Ness can project himself at. Ness has D-Tilt, but atleast on a few stages perhaps you can walljump and try to get above his dtilt range.
     
  17. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    Hmm it just kind of seems logical that after a coma that I made the initial comment regarding missiles, a new idea was introduced regarding a pitfall in the match up... and in that pitfall no where did I say it had anything to do with missiles you stupid piece of ****. Now I dont know where you get off talking to me like this, because when you were EC, you were beyond subpar, not even matching up to YCZ or myself and now you think you are hot **** because I cant drive an hour and bop you to shut you up? Don't talk to me as an equal because you are not there yet
     
    #1257 Litt, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    343 likes this.
  18. 343

    343
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    I'm talking to you as a fellow person who writes things online, and your writing seems to lack some logical flow sometimes ^^
     
  19. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    No one on here follows a logical flow... are you diluded enough to believe there to be order where there is none? And No you were not writing to me as a fellow, logically look at ness's D tilt, and where the hitbox covers, then use your brain and put the two together that after a coma, a separate point was made about a different facet of the match. If you are intelligent and did that, then a comment of "I don't see how ness dtilt edgeguards are relevant to missile spam" is very condescending and you are not talking to me as a fellow person, you are talking to me from a place of superiority (Thus you being called a schmuck). Or you are really that dumb and didnt put two and two together, your autistic self asked "I don't see how ness dtilt edgeguards are relevant to missile spam" because of how incompetent of a player you are, and again, you are not a fellow speaking to another intellectually in the least. How was that flow you for? :)
     
    #1259 Litt, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
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  20. 343

    343
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    "Let your anger out, and then let it go." -Aang

    Or, if you prefer:
    "Let go your earthly tether. Enter the void, empty, and become wind." -Zaheer
     
  21. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    If you were on the EC right now I would MM you to a slap in the face, so I could then proceed to slap you in your face.... Don't quote avatar at me you subpar excuse for a samus player, you speak about addressing others as an equal on here yet so far in this conversation you spoke down to me twice... first I had already laid out in the last post how you were either coming from a place of condescension or a place of pure ignorance and stupidity, now you tell me to let my anger go... a place where you say you are coming from is enlightened and I remain in a place of hatred and anger... Seriously bud go **** yourself.... do not speak with me on here again, and do not expect me to respond to you again.
     
    343 likes this.
  22. net1234

    net1234
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    nesses down bee beats my regular bee, like i have this ness at 200% cuz he keeps ccing all my upaerials and not dying so i go for my pew pew and he absrobs it and is at like 20 damages again. matchup is probably 70:30 ness:samus. and bat reflects misiles make that 80:20
     
  23. Litt

    Litt
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    Samus

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    cant tell if troll or not
     
  24. xleo_samusx

    xleo_samusx
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    [​IMG] Does this answer your question
     
    Litt and net1234 like this.
  25. Valar Morghulis

    Valar Morghulis
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    I challenge Samus players to duels
     
  26. xleo_samusx

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    Come to Pittsburgh and we can duel, 20$ mm lol if you live close or something
     
  27. Valar Morghulis

    Valar Morghulis
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    Ya, I live 9 hours away in Chicago, so maybe we'd have to meet up at big tournament
     
    xleo_samusx likes this.
  28. Mattyboy

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    I have problems with the sheik matchup, big surprise. I feel like I can't be proactive in neutral like I can in other matchups and the only way I can get any sort of leg up on sheik is when I predict their method of approach and punish it accordingly.
    Is there any way that I can actively push an advantage against sheik other than just camping? I feel so neutered against her :'(
     
  29. cole_ubermensch

    cole_ubermensch
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    how about a guide on facing puff? i seem to have a little bit of trouble there.
     
  30. 343

    343
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    don't let them in on you; having puff hitting your shield is generally a bad position (though if they misspace, you can upb.) zone them out with jabs/ftilt/utilt if they're in the air, and ftilt/maybe utilt if they're on the ground. If you know an aerial will hit, you can jump, but usually if Puff is on the top platform or something you might as well charge.

    Samus is strongest when Puff is in front of you, or maybe in front and slightly above. (Behind and above, in bair range, is ok too, but bair / reverse nair / uair?? are basically your only options for hitting there, and they involve jumping.) Try to get into this position. If she's above you, respace yourself. If you're above her, GET DOWN.

    To kill: Your goal is to get charge, and then to either catch Puff's movement or combo into it. Failing that, hope the puff misspaces so that you can dsmash / sweetspot bair / fsmash for the kill. Or, if the Puff isn't approaching, you can shoot missiles, though taking center stage takes precedence. You want as much space as possible so you can reposition yourself around her moves!

    Fsmash/dtilt/dsmash/dash attack on shield are all very unsafe on shield and can get you rested!! Jabbing, ftilting, dash attacking (or other weak moves) vs a crouching puff are also pretty dangerous! Grabbing is also, of course, very risky, though if you know they'll shield, grabbing gives you a free combo (dthrow -> nair, dthrow -> chargeshot). Watch Duck vs Puff; he grabs A LOT, because he has the game sense to know when the opponent wants to shield.
     
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  31. Corigames

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    I've updated my first post with more information and reformatted almost the entire post. I currently am planning on updating the current info to meet my own standards as well as going more in depth on the stages and character MUs. If there's anything else desired or something of particular note that needs highlighted, please tell me here.
     
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  32. BillNyeTheSamusGuy

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    Dude, the write-ups are looking so good. I think this will help new sami a bunch.

    Some notes:

    Ftilt extends your hurt box so it can get you hit when you would otherwise be safe. It can also shieldpoke when aimed.

    Utilt extends your hurtbox to.

    Dtilt can shieldpoke.

    Usmash (usmash is uber situational but it should be useful to mention those) - Usmash is good when your opponent whiffs a laggy move deep on your shield, to cover someone's landing who doesn't have a jump, to pressure someone on a plat from below and/or to carry them off the platform with the multiple hits. If you do hit with the last hit it can be followed up!

    Dash attack can be used as a shield cross up, to reposition yourself, because it travels a bit of distance.
     
  33. 343

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    @Corigames I disagree with your description of FD vs Fox. I think Samus relies heavily on platforms for movement, for techchases, to escape after upb (without upb, you can't do much against Fox shield pressure), and to (more rarely) land quickly after aerials. The wide stage also makes it difficult to deal with campy Fox (though at least he can't run away.) Most top Foxes prefer to counterpick FD vs Samus over even Stadium and Yoshi's.
     
    #1273 343, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  34. Corigames

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    Sorry, I don't think I ever responded to this.

    I guess my impression of FD is skewed by my jank. I usually camp the edges so that:
    1. I can set-up gimp/edgeguard situations more frequently
    2. use the ledge for edge canceling

    If I'm playing against a particularly campy Fox, I use SWD to close the distance switching between SWD D/Fsmash, Extender grabs, and Shielding into something. Though I agree that FD might not be the best stage for the MU, I'd take it over PS (dat ceiling and transformation BS) and Dreamland (Talk about camping potential).
     
  35. ShadowKing

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    Any good roll spacing options?
     
  36. bubbaking

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    As in pressure options that let you cover rolls?

    Lolz, as janky as all of that sounded, it seems quite legit. :p However, on those other stages, it is super important that we can land/edge-cancel on plats with upB. On FD, upB is rarely safe, especially if they know to laser-cancel their tumble animation and/or SDI very early out of the upB. Even going for the ledge is risky, 'cause Fox can get to that before we can. :urg:
     
    #1276 bubbaking, Jul 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
  37. M3ll0w

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    This is a very good tutorial on samus the only thing i would suggest is when you talk about bomb dashing and stuff is to show a gif or link a video or something so we can get a visual idea :) Otherwise a brilliant job you did on this
     
  38. edgeluca

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    Wow I'm so happy this thread is still alive! AIDS is one of my best smash friends and my old teammate. He doesn't play anymore, but his guide truly birthed generations of Samus players! (Including me, though I don't use Samus anymore..)
     

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