Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[xLeafybug =D]

Roobushin @ Life Orb
Adamant / Brute Force
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Drain Punch/Brick Break(?)
Stone Edge
Payback/Earthquake
Bulk Up/Mach Punch(?)

Question: Are Stone Edge, Earthquake, Payback and Mach Punch affected by Brute Force?

 

[Wave⁂]

I propose we ban all Dragon-type Pokémon because you are forced to run Steel-types on your team, which aren't so great.

Also, no idea what Brute Force is

 

[UltiMario]

Also, no idea what Brute Force is

Encourage

Question: Are Stone Edge, Earthquake, Payback and Mach Punch affected by Brute Force?

I think payback is. Otherwise no.

 

[Pluvia]

You think SD, Yache Chomp isn't going to be ubers?

Jolly, 252 atk, 252 sp, 4 spdef.

In a Sandstorm, SD, Fire Fang, Dragon Claw and Earthquake are his moves. How do you stop it?

 

[kirbyraeg]

Oh, the joys of defensive Cloyster, how we longed to return to those days.

 

[Pluvia]

That's one. Now name the others that stop that set from becoming overcentralising.

 

[Wave⁂]

>Implying a Pokémon needs a counter for it to be OU

 

[Pluvia]

I'm implying that something that is overcentralising is uber actually. If that wasn't already plainly obvious.

 

[kirbyraeg]

You've gone a bit off-focus though, mate.

We were talking about shandera, and now you're arguing that yachechomp is over-centralizing the metagame.

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm implying that something that is overcentralising is uber actually. If that wasn't already plainly obvious.

Well, now we need to find one of these over-centralizing Pokemon.

 

[Cease Tick]

You think SD, Yache Chomp isn't going to be ubers?

Jolly, 252 atk, 252 sp, 4 spdef.

In a Sandstorm, SD, Fire Fang, Dragon Claw and Earthquake are his moves. How do you stop it?

Skarmory, any faster scarfer, ditto, hippowdon, erufuun switches in on swords dance and encores, sac something and kill with bulky water

anyway, anyone that has problems with roobushin should try slowbro.

 

[Pluvia]

Ditto yes, any faster scarfer no, Skar gets killed by Fire Fang, Hippo by EQ, switch on Eru, Sac something?

Anyway yeah I've gone completely off focus. But because it's like talking to a brick wall here we'll end with where we got to in the Shan debate.

One side saying it shouldn't be banned because it's not overcentralising and uber because if you run one specific Pokemon and one specific item on everything you don't want to get revenged, you make it useless, and that other Pokemon that are ubers from previous Gens and ones that are incredibly likely to become uber in Gen 5 also do the same thing it does.

And one side saying it should be banned because it's overcentralising and uber because, unless you run one specific Pokemon and one specific item on everything you don't want to get revenged, it gets a free kill and the only other Pokemon that can do that are ubers from previous Gens and the ones that are incredibly likely to become uber in Gen 5.

 

[UltiMario]

You think SD, Yache Chomp isn't going to be ubers?

Jolly, 252 atk, 252 sp, 4 spdef.

In a Sandstorm, SD, Fire Fang, Dragon Claw and Earthquake are his moves. How do you stop it?

Yes. ScarfChomp is better than YacheChomp BTW.

Also, I've used the currently legal Deo-A to OHKO through Yache with Ice Beam :3

Look. This isn't Gen IV, and you're STILL not even looking at Gen IV right. GL trying to kill Skarm with Fire Fang, or Hippo with EQ, etc.

 

[mood4food77]

skarmory is OHKO'd by a +2 fire fang
hippowdon gets 2HKO'd by outrage while chomp gets 3HKO'd by earthquake
ditto cannot switch in on Outrage
most scarfers are probably going to be OHKO'd by outrage and since Yache berry is still popular on chomp, they'll miss a OHKO or they'll miss entirely
erufuun can ONLY come in on outrage
and almost all bulky waters are 2HKO'd by a +2 outrage while failing to get the OHKO on chomp

seriously, your best shots are ditto, erufuun, and scarf flygon and that's only if they switch in on SD

the problem is that, it only takes 1 turn to run through everything

i 6-0'd someone because his porygon2 missed ice beam
also, deo-A isn't guaranteed a OHKO through yache, but i think it's over 50% (93.3%-110.1%)
i'm pretty sure, sand veil is the biggest reason why he's banned, but you can't really just ban that ability, or can you on chomp only?

 

[Wave⁂]

Hippowdon doesn't work because Ice Fang has like 10% accuracy with Sand Veil

God damn Sand Veil

 

[Pluvia]

What is considered uber to everyone then?

Don't name Pokemon, name what makes a Pokemon uber.

Edit:

To clarify, everyones response to my questions are "Lol this can beat that so it's not uber".

Well, unless there's some sort of unbeatable Pokemon out there that I'm forgetting about, we might as well just dissolve the uber tier into OU.

 

[mood4food77]

stats with a BST over 600 (slaking and regigigas are exceptions because of their respective abilities)
overcentralizing to the point where it's dumb (like garchomp in gen IV)
stupidly powerful attack, stat, and ability combo (chomp, wobb, skymin, darkrai)
versatility (mew, salamence in gen IV)
and simply, just way too friggen strong (deoxys)

 

[Pluvia]

Yache Chomp fails to meet these standards in Gen 5 how?

Also, though he has no chance of being uber, I hate that Nattorei. The versatility with that thing is insane.

 

[Cease Tick]

skarmory is OHKO'd by a +2 fire fang
hippowdon gets 2HKO'd by outrage while chomp gets 3HKO'd by earthquake
ditto cannot switch in on Outrage
most scarfers are probably going to be OHKO'd by outrage and since Yache berry is still popular on chomp, they'll miss a OHKO or they'll miss entirely
erufuun can ONLY come in on outrage
and almost all bulky waters are 2HKO'd by a +2 outrage while failing to get the OHKO on chomp

seriously, your best shots are ditto, erufuun, and scarf flygon and that's only if they switch in on SD

the problem is that, it only takes 1 turn to run through everything

i 6-0'd someone because his porygon2 missed ice beam
also, deo-A isn't guaranteed a OHKO through yache, but i think it's over 50% (93.3%-110.1%)
i'm pretty sure, sand veil is the biggest reason why he's banned, but you can't really just ban that ability, or can you on chomp only?

Skarmory is definitely not OHKO'd by fire fang
Skarmory and Hippowdon can both switch in on anything and phaze you
Lati@s destroys you if it doesn't come in on outrage/dragon claw
erufuun comes in on earthquake or swords dance. either way it encores and leech seeds. it also gets cotton guard to take your attacks surprisingly well.
deo-A is guaranteed a ko even with no special attack investment, assuming stealth rocks are up
ditto obviously shouldn't be coming in on outrage or dragon claw

tbh Salamence, Sazandora, and even Dragonite have all given me more trouble than Garchomp.

Spoiler

Maybe because I use Skarmory, Slowbro, Toxic Spikes and Tormenttran.

 

[Pluvia]

Finally Dragonite got something good. One of my favourite Pokemon is actually good now.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Finally Dragonite got something good. One of my favourite Pokemon is actually good now.

What exactly are you referring to with this statement? What was this buff that Dragonite received?

 

[Cease Tick]

What exactly are you referring to with this statement? What was this buff that Dragonite received?

Its new ability, Multiscale. When it's at full health, any attack does half damage.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Its new ability, Multiscale. When it's at full health, any attack does half damage.

Ahh. I was previously aware of this but I guess that makes him slightly more viable.

 

[Plum]

Because U-Turn Flygon isn't devestating.

I'm one of those people who won't ever give up on Flygon.
Sure he doesn't hit like a truck, but he's still probably one of the best scouts available. Personally, I hate revealed teams, and when you're playing without that it makes scouting much more useful. That gives Flygon his own niche again, basically where he was in Gen IV.

There's a whole list of other Pokemon that can scout, like Kojondo, the Genies (especially Landlos), and etc. None of them really have EVERYTHING Flygon has to offer. Scarfgon has plenty of resistances, and two very useful immunities, immune to Spikes and Stealth Rock resistant, outspeeds any unboosted pogey with the exception being like Deoxys-S, great dual STAB and enough other options to give great coverage.
It's not as bulky as something like Landlos, but it has dragon stab, and being a dragon gives him fire resistance, and water neutrality which can offer a few more spots to switch in safely. It doesn't hit as hard as other options, but firing off STAB Earthquakes/Outrages still pack enough of a punch that will allow him to pick off weaker pokemon reliably. He's not as fast, but he still gets the job done and has enough to offer over other options that it can be worth it.

 

[Pluvia]

Ahh. I was previously aware of this but I guess that makes him slightly more viable.

He can take a DD boosted Outrage from Ono at full health.

That's no small feat, especially for a Dragon type.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Too bad ANYTHING on the field ruins it.

 

[Wave⁂]

Like Spikes and Toxic Spikes?

Sandstorm damage would happen after taking the Outrage, right?

 

[Pluvia]

You could make him a DD lead, or you could just give him Roost and Leftovers.

 

[kirbyraeg]

So basically that old-school anti-lead set is suddenly useful.

Lol it takes a Modest Glaceon Ice Beam to KO through Multi-scale.

 

[Wave⁂]

ExtremeSpeed Dragonite isn't really old-school, since it was HGSS. But whatever. It's nice that you don't have to do that stupid Sash vs. Life Orb decision.

 

[UltiMario]

DNite has taken a Max SpA LO Ice Beam from my Deo-A.

THAT is saying something.

 

[Circa]

Dragonite gets Aqua Jet now too. Most wouldn't consider it useful when it already gets Extremespeed, but when you consider all the threats it can actually hit harder or at the same damage as Extremespeed (not to mention the better neutral coverage with Dragon STAB), it's actually kind of something worth considering. Especially on a DD set, where some of the threats that can potentially outspeed you for a revenge kill are the ever-present Doryuuzu and Shandera.

I'm not sure if he can run both Extremespeed and Aqua Jet at the same time though. I'd have to look into that. Although I'm not sure what kind of set would make good use of both anyway. CB maybe, but the damage output of the moves from just slapping a CB on it probably doesn't hit a lot of things hard enough to really consider the role of a lot of other things that can hit main threats hard.

 

[Wave⁂]

Also Kyremu is TERRIBLE he's such trash like you'd have to ban every single other Dragon except DNite, Flygon, Altaria, and Rough Skin Dragon Mon to even CONSIDER using him

Couldn't he be useful on a Hail team? His Blizzard is as strong as Heatran's Fire Blast. And he's not as stupidly slow as Glaceon.

 

[UltiMario]

Except Fire is actually a good attacking type. And Heatran actually has a good typing. And moves other than Draco Meteor and Blizzard. And Hail sucks.

There isn't a reason to use Kyuremu if his only reason is a better Blizzard than Glaceon.

 

[xxmoosexx]

Well. I've found a new danger to defensive pokemon.

Specially Based Encourage Life Orb Nidoking packs a punch.

He does roughly 60% with tunderbolt to Burungeru.

Generally, ground types kill him. He can't OHKO Hippowdon with Ice beam sadly.

Has anyone else tried him out?

Or Encourage Feraligatr?

 

[UltiMario]

I tried Encourage Nidoking before, but then I meh'd because of speed.

 

[Wave⁂]

Nidoking is a stallbreaker, and stall doesn't have speed.

 

[UltiMario]

Give me one reason to run Nidoking when I can just run Deoxys-A or Deo-N right now and get more power and speed and the same coverage.

 

[Wave⁂]

Bluff Scarf with no Life Orb recoil.

But that's beside the point, no one said Nidoking is good.

 

[Circa]

There isn't one, although Nidoking gives sexiness points. Oh wait, yes there is. He doesn't give no **** about T-Wave or Toxic either. And he soaks up dem Toxic Spikes, which is something stall can really abuse against Deo-A.

How much stall is even out there right now? If I had to guess he'd mostly just sit there in most games, being outclassed by that Deo you wished you had.

Why the **** am I agreeing with Ulti so much today? I swear this never happens.

EDIT: I'd never assume Nidoking had anything BUT Life Orb. But maybe that's just me.