SuSa
Banned via Administration
This isn't matchup changing. Wario is still a ***** to get grabbed, and he has to get grabbed in the right places or something like that.
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infinite on Wario (yes the word is used correctly)
- Thread starter saviorslegacy
- Start date
I'm sorry Susa, but you just doesn't know about Sheik's ability to get grabs up close.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Making blanket statements is not a valid argument. Please support with evidence next time
I guess Ankoku just doesn't know about how to debate properly. You sure nailed him.
There's no way I can debate properly if I just doesn't know!!
illinialex24
Smash Hero
Did you notice also how he posted the exact same post before and just expects it to roll off. 1 bolded statement is something but multiple times....
Metatitan
Smash Master
Well **** dude. I suppose I just doesn't know.
illinialex24
Smash Hero
This works once again.
I know, right. My head is so pain from reading Ankoku's posts.
Metatitan
Smash Master
His posts make me cry from embarrassment, and I don't even know him 
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Shaya, what are you doing here, you just doesn't know anything about Sheik.
FK1
Smash Journeyman
If it's any consolation...I thought it was funny.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
BF= all platforms and the center
FD= lol
SV= if they mess up on that release (which is likely) I am footstooling them.....
YI= this stage does mess it up. You can do it on the sides and on the platform that is flat
LC= you can perform it in the middle platform... untill it tilt's
PS= lol
gm jack
Smash Lord
Thanks for looking into this. As said, it's situational, but if you can land it, you can run down the clock, get a bit of damage and frustrate them, which could lead to more mistakes.
Research enough stuff like this and eventually some more widely usable ones could come out.
As for difficulty, isn't the window on Sheik's DACUS about 2 frames? A fair few people can do it fairly reliably.
Research enough stuff like this and eventually some more widely usable ones could come out.
As for difficulty, isn't the window on Sheik's DACUS about 2 frames? A fair few people can do it fairly reliably.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
K.. I just read all of this post and I have one thing to say:
"WHY ARE THE MODS ARGUING!?!?"... "WHY IS EVERYONE SAYING YOU DON'T KNOW!??!!?"
Well that is two things.. but owell.....
"WHY ARE THE MODS ARGUING!?!?"... "WHY IS EVERYONE SAYING YOU DON'T KNOW!??!!?"
Well that is two things.. but owell.....
SuSa
Banned via Administration
We aren't arguing, we were debating over the usefulness of said infinite.
Also apparently you didn't read the entire thread because you just doesn't know.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
*does too read and know
noradseven
Smash Lord
I agree with the wario guys, Wario is a pain to get a grab you will get them sometimes though, but if they are at a somewhat low % or there are platforms around or if he is near the edge, its not going to work. I just stick with grab release into running u-smash/dacus, cause it works and it always nets ~35% damage, but if he is between like 50-80% and you grabbed him and there are no platforms and he isn't near an edge sure go for it.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
So basically like we've been saying all the along. "This is good to know for when the opportunity arrives and you can use it without it being ruined. Such as a grab in the perfect spot on a stage."
This... has some flaws.
As stated earlier, Wario can ground break out of the pummels up til about 50% (I say about because humanly I'm not sure if it's possible to escape it much further past 50%, mechanically I think it's possible).
This requires you to be on a stage like FD, or a stage like BF where you grab him at the bottom center.
Some tournaments will have standing infinites banned (this would fall under it). I've made posts earlier on various other grab release infinites explaining the reasons most places will ban it, usually involving time issues.
I'm also not sure if Shiek can do this properly, I've tested a lot of character's grab release to pivot grabs on Wario to see if any of them had an infinite (so far only a few odd ones like Ike, which is frame intense, and I wanna say Ganon can regrab him from a pivot grab, but he can regrab from a normal grab anyways).
If you grab Wario when he is over 50%, on a good stage/in a good position, if the infinite is allowed, and you are good at the timing (if it is a true infinite), then congrats your situational advantage proves useful in that situation. Otherwise, this is close to useless, whether it be banned or whether your opponent just never goes to FD or something like FD lol.
As stated earlier, Wario can ground break out of the pummels up til about 50% (I say about because humanly I'm not sure if it's possible to escape it much further past 50%, mechanically I think it's possible).
This requires you to be on a stage like FD, or a stage like BF where you grab him at the bottom center.
Some tournaments will have standing infinites banned (this would fall under it). I've made posts earlier on various other grab release infinites explaining the reasons most places will ban it, usually involving time issues.
I'm also not sure if Shiek can do this properly, I've tested a lot of character's grab release to pivot grabs on Wario to see if any of them had an infinite (so far only a few odd ones like Ike, which is frame intense, and I wanna say Ganon can regrab him from a pivot grab, but he can regrab from a normal grab anyways).
If you grab Wario when he is over 50%, on a good stage/in a good position, if the infinite is allowed, and you are good at the timing (if it is a true infinite), then congrats your situational advantage proves useful in that situation. Otherwise, this is close to useless, whether it be banned or whether your opponent just never goes to FD or something like FD lol.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I still cannot find the grab release formula. But at a certain %, even with inhuman abilities (1 input per frame) a pummel would be guarenteed.
It's situational because of stages, we get that.
When is it considered a standing infinite, when you do it once? Twice? I never quite understood the ban on them.
Counterpicks, gotta love them. Forces you to ban FD I guess?
It's situational because of stages, we get that.
When is it considered a standing infinite, when you do it once? Twice? I never quite understood the ban on them.
Counterpicks, gotta love them. Forces you to ban FD I guess?
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
*you need to catch up on the rest of the topic
I'd like to see that.....
*****.....
*works on all neutrals (including 4 parts on BF)
Then test it.....
LOL (reread the first line)
Yes at a certain %, even with mechanical abilities, a pummel would be guaranteed. That number is VERY high though, compared to Humanly possible. In fact I would not be surprised if it was near double the %.
Stages yes I was just making that point again.
As for standing infinite, depends on their interpretation. Usually it's a number like 3-5.
As for banning FD, it might only be necessary if you lose on the first stage. If you want to be a little risky, you can go to FD on purpose for the first round, lose, then CP somewhere, win, and now your opponent cannot pick FD because he/she had already won there earlier in the set. So basically you would get two bans at the price of being forced to play out all 3 games or possibly losing in two.
Savior, it's not THAT hard to ground break under 50% or so when you pummel. Honestly if I can do it on someone with a super fast/short Pummel like Marth, I can certainly do it on a slower/longer pummel like Shiek.
As for the neutrals, it's really only viable for FD. If you want to talk about a stage where it could work on any spot, it's FD. Everything else has limitations and exclusions and requirements for both characters to meet before it becomes a possibility.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Okay... I did have to LOL at your strategy.
I guess losing is a good idea after all............
It's not entirely serious, but if you want FD out of the equation ALONG with a ban on another stage, you can take that route. In tournament, I would think about it, probably not choose it, but it's something to think about. It's certainly viable.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I've actually done DMG's strategy on Battlefield. It worked. (I banned Brinstar and lost on BF) it's just not the... best choice 99% of the time.
Also, I THINK the formula is:
100 frames + 5 frames per % - 10 frames per input (which is per frame)
Which means using that (assuming IIRC)
100 frames + 50x5 - 10y = 100 frames + 250 frames - 10 per input = 350 frames - 10 frames per input = 35 frames required.
Pummel is probably under 30 frames for 1 pummel.
I also could be wrong with the formula. Which I think I am... I wish Search would work instead of getting stuck on do process. :/
If someone wants to find the grab release formula, please let me know... or I'll just test it on Tuesday.
Yes - it's situational. But isn't most everything? Things have their times and places. Stating that you will never get grabbed on Battlefield in the few required spots is laughable. It will happen eventually. It may not happen every game, it may not happen every set, but it may happen.
Also, I THINK the formula is:
100 frames + 5 frames per % - 10 frames per input (which is per frame)
Which means using that (assuming IIRC)
100 frames + 50x5 - 10y = 100 frames + 250 frames - 10 per input = 350 frames - 10 frames per input = 35 frames required.
Pummel is probably under 30 frames for 1 pummel.
I also could be wrong with the formula. Which I think I am... I wish Search would work instead of getting stuck on do process. :/
If someone wants to find the grab release formula, please let me know... or I'll just test it on Tuesday.
Yes - it's situational. But isn't most everything? Things have their times and places. Stating that you will never get grabbed on Battlefield in the few required spots is laughable. It will happen eventually. It may not happen every game, it may not happen every set, but it may happen.
Sheik's pummel is hilariously slow. You land one pummel approximately every 45 frames. So, assuming a very fast but human mashing speed, at 50% you can safely use one pummel, and every 18% you can safely add one more pummel.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Standing infinites are usually limited to five consecutive grabs at most... if they're limited, that is.
Have you ever seen Fox's, Wolf's, Marth's, or Lucario's pummels?
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
I alt Fox.....
They all have cool pummels. What I am talking about is Wolf speed + 3%.
Leafplayer452
Smash Journeyman
This is kinda a no brainer to me, heck even **** Ike got a "infinite" on Wario
SuSa
Banned via Administration
"Because Ike has an infinite on Wario, so does Sheik"
I absolutely fail at seeing your logic there.
I think it may be off height, I should test for Snake. Even though nair/utilt/uair is probably enough
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
How in the world does this work on battlefield lol. Also what is the frame window for sheik to input the pivot grab?
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I'd like to know the frame window as well. It's probably as strict as every other infinite on you guys.... I'm going to defend it unless the frame window is so stupidly small it's not too viable anyways. lol
It works on Battlefield in the center, and on the outskirts facing away from the stage. (Where you won't land on platforms)
Although grabbing you there will RARELY ever happen. It could.
It works on Battlefield in the center, and on the outskirts facing away from the stage. (Where you won't land on platforms)
Although grabbing you there will RARELY ever happen. It could.
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
O i thought he meant grabbing through the platforms lol.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
It also works on top of the platforms.......
Tristan_win
Not dead.
true true but I can count on one hand the number of times I've grabbed someone on top of a platform.