infinite on Wario (yes the word is used correctly)

[illinialex24]

So yeah.... if I wasn't on Smashville/Lylat, and I had the opportunity. 3 iterations is nothing.... I'd abuse it til he's in KO range.

We are not saying use this all of the time.

We are saying to know that you can use this so when the opportunity arrives (as its bound to eventually) you can use it.

Imagine the time it takes to get him to 300%. Thats worthwhile, especially since you can essentially guarantee a KO out of it, and a lot of the clock, without stalling.

 

[SuSa]

Imagine the time it takes to get him to 300%. Thats worthwhile, especially since you can essentially guarantee a KO out of it, and a lot of the clock, without stalling.

If it allows you to get the % advantage AND the stock advantage...

Couldn't you:
Grab > Pummel > Release > regrab > repeat
To 300% (past this is stalling) then KO.
Imagine how long it'd take to do 200% doing 1%~ at a time (you aren't stalling, you are guaranteeing an air break no matter what). If you already have a stock advantage, you'd run a large portion off the clock forcing the Wario to be aggressive - which may ultimately lead to mistakes.

I like your thinking.

 

[illinialex24]

If it allows you to get the % advantage AND the stock advantage...

Couldn't you:
Grab > Pummel > Release > regrab > repeat
To 300% (past this is stalling) then KO.
Imagine how long it'd take to do 200% doing 1%~ at a time every so often. If you already have a stock advantage, you'd run a large portion off the clock forcing the Wario to be aggressive - which may ultimately lead to mistakes.

I like your thinking.

And it isn't stalling because your making sure you get the jump break. IE, it should take the clock off while using it.

 

[PhantomX]

*sigh* Oh well, I'm just going to stop bothering. Just like the Ikes, and the Zeldas, and the Yoshis, you will eventually come to the terms that this just isn't worth the trouble or difficulty to do. You have a small window before Wario can DJ, and you have to be well positioned when Wario breaks. Considering Wario controls break out animation you're going to have to be nearly perfect every time you release him, for like... 100 grabs... good luck.

 

[illinialex24]

*sigh* Oh well, I'm just going to stop bothering. Just like the Ikes, and the Zeldas, and the Yoshis, you will eventually come to the terms that this just isn't worth the trouble or difficulty to do. You have a small window before Wario can DJ, and you have to be well positioned when Wario breaks. Considering Wario controls break out animation you're going to have to be nearly perfect every time you release him, for like... 100 grabs... good luck.

Good, not nearly perfect. And we all know in melee how well some people mastered it, saying its too hard if its an worthwhile isn't a fair reason not to do it. Master it and you will be a level above tech skill wise than everyone else.

 

[SuSa]

Small windows are fun. They allow me to chaingrab with IC's at higher %'s and they let me use Sheik's DACUS and they also allow me to Boost Grab chaingrab with Snake (less then 5 frames allowed for error on most if not all characters.)

Sure can't be mastered.

In the Wario Q&A:

We can't beat those Infinites, but they rely on pummels, which give us a chance to escape, and you also have to hope your grab doesn't happen under a platform, or on a stage that moves or transforms.........

Wait a second.......................also you can't escape if we don't overdo the pummels. (There is a certain amount guaranteed at certain %'s, even assuming you have the inhuman ability to make 1 input per frame)

 

[illinialex24]

I mean I could understand saying its too hard if its that Pit F-throw arrow hit chain-grab, thats hard (not sure what became of it). But that requires you to be perfect or almost perfect to a 1 frame level so many times. This isn't even close.

 

[Brinzy]

Wait, what did the Zeldas do to you

 

[illinialex24]

Wait, what did the Zeldas do to you

What do you mean??

 

[PhantomX]

Zelda can do the same thing to Wario if she grabs him.

 

[Zankoku]

QK: Knock it off.

 

[illinialex24]

Such a stunning example of intelligence, now either discuss it or move on, don't randomly post spam. Thats something I would do, and considering you have a red name, thats an embarrassement.

 

[Zankoku]

The red name is all some convoluted prank to make you think I actually do something.

 

[illinialex24]

The red name is all some convoluted prank to make you think I actually do something.

Another stunning example of your leadership as a role model on a major website. Seriously, you are a role model and represent the site with a red name. Bad posts don't just represent you.

 

[SuSa]

Small windows are fun. They allow me to chaingrab with IC's at higher %'s and they let me use Sheik's DACUS and they also allow me to Boost Grab chaingrab with Snake (less then 5 frames allowed for error on most if not all characters.)

Sure can't be mastered.

In the Wario Q&A:


Wait a second.......................also you can't escape if we don't overdo the pummels. (There is a certain amount guaranteed at certain %'s, even assuming you have the inhuman ability to make 1 input per frame)

I'd like to try and get this topic back on track. Please point to how frame windows have anything to do with the matter. It can be mastered. It can happen. I find no reason as to shrug this off as nothing.

 

[Zankoku]

The "frame window" argument's relevance is simply that Wario's Down+B is an incredible punishment if you screw it up. This, in turn, is relevant because you're taking forever to deal any significant amount of damage.

Go right ahead with the other part, I guess.

 

[Metatitan]

*sigh* Oh well, I'm just going to stop bothering. Just like the Ikes, and the Zeldas, and the Yoshis, you will eventually come to the terms that this just isn't worth the trouble or difficulty to do. You have a small window before Wario can DJ, and you have to be well positioned when Wario breaks. Considering Wario controls break out animation you're going to have to be nearly perfect every time you release him, for like... 100 grabs... good luck.

The timing isn't THAT bad for yoshi, it's worth it to perform mabey 2-5 regrabs to get enough damage for a KO or just extra damage. It's more of the fact that his pummel is terribly weak; sheik's is not. So instead we usmash/uair/f smash from grab release ^^

Good, not nearly perfect. And we all know in melee how well some people mastered it, saying its too hard if its an worthwhile isn't a fair reason not to do it. Master it and you will be a level above tech skill wise than everyone else.

DR is hard at first and easy once you get the hang of it (I used to have the hang of it but as I saw it was a nearly situational tech with little to offer [at least so far], I stopped using it) but since it's not important, most yoshies don't bother with it.


Ankoku, sheik's pummel is strong and her throws don't do all that much. Why be dumb and not try and master this with a character that could use it (not saying do the full infinite but gain at least a spare 10% from it) when you can master it and wrack up some free damage on a top tier character?

 

[demonictoonlink]

OMG WARIO GETS GRABBED!
It's hard, but it HAPPENS!

 

[SuSa]

The "frame window" argument's relevance is simply that Wario's Down+B is an incredible punishment if you screw it up. This, in turn, is relevant because you're taking forever to deal any significant amount of damage.

Go right ahead with the other part, I guess.

Then you did not master it.

You also missed a few posts about stalling the clock if your ahead. (Especially if you somehow have a stock advantage).

Unless the frame window is something stupidly small (1 frame) it can and will be mastered by someone. Difficulty is not relevant.

Also it could be used to get an extra 15-20% for a guaranteed KO, you don't necessarily need to do this for 100%+

 

[illinialex24]

Exactly, the difficulty reason is bad. Saying that the chain grab on G&W for the IC's is very hard and barely worthwhile is a terrible argument, and with the overall CG's likewise.

 

[smashkng]

A slow infinite, all infinites relied on pummel are VERY SLOW. It's more for stalling to make the time go down than for ****** Wario.

 

[illinialex24]

A slow infinite, all infinites relied on pummel are VERY SLOW. It's more for stalling to make the time go down than for ****** Wario.

Exactly, it does both however, so if you are losing by percent when going in to it, you can win the game and get rid of almost all the time using this. If not, you can essentially waste the clock.

 

[Metatitan]

GW I thought was easy to cg ?

 

[illinialex24]

GW I thought was easy to cg ?

Not really, depends on the form. I am talking about back-throw F-throw CG, where he isn't easy.

Best for that is Marth, Wario, Yoshi and a few others. Wario has a huge window, he's so easy.

 

[Zankoku]

Then you did not master it.

Uh, sure. Ignoring possibility of human error every once in a while, if you don't mess up bad enough then you should be fine. Just remember not to use too many of Sheik's pummels or you'll inadverdantly allow a ground break. Also be sure to pummel extra carefully against Reflex.

You also missed a few posts about stalling the clock if your ahead. (Especially if you somehow have a stock advantage).

See, this would normally be a great thing, but you're also running the risk of allowing Wario to charge his Down+B this whole time. If you don't mess up, and you manage to stay out of harm's way for the rest of the match, then it's fine. Still risky though.

Unless the frame window is something stupidly small (1 frame) it can and will be mastered by someone. Difficulty is not relevant.

Difficulty can have an effect on overall consistency, but otherwise yeah, difficulty's not that big of a matter.

Also it could be used to get an extra 15-20% for a guaranteed KO, you don't necessarily need to do this for 100%+

>_>
Well, I suppose if you land a grab just a little earlier than you should've then you can go for it.

 

[legion598]

can shiek boost pivot grab like falco?

 

[Metatitan]

Oh **** he proved me wrong

Didn't feel like like eating a chunk out of a page so i summarized it.

Glad to know you think this can be of some use

 

[Zankoku]

Yes, but it doesn't give any meaningful "boost" like Falco's does.

EDIT @ Metatitan: I still don't see it as useful, but I'm not about to bring my personal feelings on things into these things any more. It gets me into more **** than I want to deal with on a message board.

 

[illinialex24]

Didn't feel like like eating a chunk out of a page so i summarized it.

Glad to know you think this can be of some use

This just gets classier

 

[SuSa]

Uh, sure. Ignoring possibility of human error every once in a while, if you don't mess up bad enough then you should be fine. Just remember not to use too many of Sheik's pummels or you'll inadverdantly allow a ground break. Also be sure to pummel extra carefully against Reflex.

There is a certain % where certain amounts of pummels are guaranteed.

If the search worked for me, I could find this formula. (It's something like 100 frames + 5 frames per % - 10 frames per input or something like that)

So we'd just need Sheik's pummel frame data to find how many pummels at which %'s.

See, this would normally be a great thing, but you're also running the risk of allowing Wario to charge his Down+B this whole time. If you don't mess up, and you manage to stay out of harm's way for the rest of the match, then it's fine. Still risky though.

Only great if you have a stock advantage and are at a low %. (EG: 2 stocks 10% vs 1 stock x%) you can try and run the clock while racking up damage. That way if you do die, you may be able to KO. You may run out of time with a lower %. EG.

It FORCES the Wario to not camp. If they camp, they lose. I wouldn't recommend doing this, but you can. If you're in the lead with 2 minutes left on the clock, why not?

Difficulty can have an effect on overall consistency, but otherwise yeah, difficulty's not that big of a matter.

It can make it harder to master. But unless it is stupidly small window of error (1-2 frames) it can be mastered.

>_>
Well, I suppose if you land a grab just a little earlier than you should've then you can go for it.

And this games winner is............

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, the only thing it forces the Wario to do is regain the lead within the two or so minutes he has left, or lose. Far too many players have screwed up and let Wario camp them into a comeback when they had the advantage. Don't let it happen to you.

 

[SuSa]

The Wario would need to kill you, then damage you to a higher % then himself or kill you again. Which shouldn't be happening if hes camping you.

Simply camp and run away like a coward.

But if there's 3 minutes on the clock (for god knows why), you have a stock lead, why not kill 2 minutes-2 minutes + 30 seconds of the clock doing this? < Now that's extremely situational...

 

[Zankoku]

You just don't know, man. You just don't know.

Haha, yeah, Wario can't deal damage to you if neither of you approach. It's just rare to see players actively abandon conflict for over two minutes, though, and trying on the patience. Again, don't let it happen to you. It's even more frustrating coming to the realization that you just messed up your brilliant plan.

 

[SuSa]

You should put a little research into my name. I do know. I do know.

Again, I'm agreeing with you. Don't approach if you don't have to.

 

[Zankoku]

No, you don't. You don't even know!!

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah, Ankoku, I'm gonna side with Susa on this... You obviously have not read why its his name.

 

[Zankoku]

It obviously doesn't matter because he just doesn't know.

 

[illinialex24]

Writing in boldface type is a very immature way of saying "I'm 5 and I try to scream NO YOU CAN't as loud as I can" to win an argument, which kind of proves my point. You are unable to argue your position so you are just trying to strengthen your weak point like a politician or a 5 year old: you barrage others with pointless generic statements repeatedly until hopefully the other side forgets it.

Sorry but that doesn't work.

 

[Shaya]

I heard people just doesn't know what's going on in this thread.

But I'm all for Sheik being a 60:40 or better against Wario; Sheik's gonna be B tier! ABOVE PEACH

 

[Zankoku]

I take it you don't like playing the game, so I'll stop unless SuSa wants to continue.