Impossible Matchups

[HiddenBowser]

Here is a list of characters that I would highly recommend that you get a 2nd main for (in order of difficulty):

Impossible (8-2):
-Olimar (Beats you in every ****ing way and kills you very easily)
-DDD (******** range that you can't get around along with an annoying projectile)
-G&W (******** bair that you can't get around)

Debatable (could be 8-2 or 7-3... nobody know!!! *que ghost sounds*):
-Falco (Projectiles get way the **** in the way and completely shuts you down / is gimpable)
-Snake (******** tilts, kills you easy, doesn't die from rest til 103% / once you get him in the air, all he can really do is airdodge)

Honorable mention (7-3):
-DK (good range and great bair owns you, kills you at low percents)
-Charizard (rock smash goes through everything you have)
-MK (fast, good range / doesn't kill you til high percents, dies at 65% from rest)
-Marth (I didn't want to but I've been convinced that on paper, marth is acually a hard matchup, even though in play, he's not that bad. Range owns you in the poking department)

Feel free to discuss all you want, but imo these are Jigglypuff's hardest matchups and you should find a 2nd main in dealing with them.

 

[__G__]

****, this is prolly the first thing in which i agree with practically everything you said. I definitely agree that those top three are insane for jiggs, but maybe those should just be characters that jiggs mains focus on playing so they have some strategies for those matchups.

 

[illinialex24]

****, this is prolly the first thing in which i agree with practically everything you said. I definitely agree that those top three are insane for jiggs, but maybe those should just be characters that jiggs mains focus on playing so they have some strategies for those matchups.

Olimar is almost impossible, however, I definitely disagree that DDD is harder than MK. I have found that I am even with most DDD'S, but almost no MK's unless they really suck.

Olimar and G&W are almost impossible to beat, so I admit you should just get another main, but the rest are manageable, if difficult.

 

[rinoH]

luigi is a pretty hard match up too and also zelda imo

 

[HiddenBowser]

Olimar is almost impossible, however, I definitely disagree that DDD is harder than MK. I have found that I am even with most DDD'S, but almost no MK's unless they really suck.

hmm, I find good DDD's much harder than pro MK's. Honestly, I was thinking about not even putting MK up on that list because I don't have too much of a problem dealing with them. The only MK to beat my jiggs in a tourney was Vidjo. Idk, I guess my play style is probably just different than most peoples, and that helps me fight MK's better.

 

[TheStig]

g&w is impossible because his priority is redic. i don't have that much trouble with the space animals although i haven't played any "great" ones yet.

 

[illinialex24]

hmm, I find good DDD's much harder than pro MK's. Honestly, I was thinking about not even putting MK up on that list because I don't have too much of a problem dealing with them. The only MK to beat my jiggs in a tourney was Vidjo. Idk, I guess my play style is probably just different than most peoples, and that helps me fight MK's better.

Can you teach me then how to kill an MK? Because the only real difficulty I have with King DDD is his Waddle Dees and his U-tilt, and if I screw up, his F-smash.... but with MK, I really have to worry about all his moves, because they seem to be so much high priority.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I agree with most of that, actually. Some people don't think that D3 and G+W are hard matchups for jiggs, but they are. As for Olimar, it kind of goes both ways. I have a lot of trouble with him on the stage, but if you can get him anywhere off the stage, it's an easy kill for Jiggs. Just hit him when he's off the stage (especially after his second jump) and grab onto the ledge. He will die. But I've played an olimar that I just couldn't get off the stage and it was impossible.

One that I'm surprised you didn't mention was Zelda. The range and priority of her smashes are a nightmare, and I find myself getting hit by almost all of the multiple hits (I will guess it's because of Jiggs' size). Din's fire has a humongous hitbox and she can aim it at you even when you are in the air. I fought a guy at my last tournament who has a jigglypuff in his crew, so he knew how to counter her. All he had to do was use din's fire when I was far, and Smashes when I was near. I switched characters after that.

I see what you are saying about MK, though. He may give Jiggs some trouble, but he's not a counter for her exactly. He gives everyone trouble, and gives Jigglypuff around the same trouble as he gives everyone else.

What second main do you guys have for dealing with the counters? Olimar is really strong against a G+W, so I suggest learning him. He would do decently at least against the other two, but what you you guys suggest for olimar and D3 counters?

 

[HiddenBowser]

Can you teach me then how to kill an MK? Because the only real difficulty I have with King DDD is his Waddle Dees and his U-tilt, and if I screw up, his F-smash.... but with MK, I really have to worry about all his moves, because they seem to be so much high priority.

To start off, you need to make sure that you are living past 140%. As long as you avoid his up b and don't leave yourself open by airdodging at the wrong time, it shouldn't be a problem. Next you main goal should be to poke him until he's at 65%. Do not try to string moves together because its not going to work. Pound is really really helpful in this matchup. Also, you should do tons of empty sh's and just wait til you can poke him and then get outta their. And then once you get him to 65% you must land a rest. Against a good player this matchup seriously comes down to can you rest him 3 times around 65%. If you can, you win, if you can't, you lose.

I agree with most of that, actually. Some people don't think that D3 and G+W are hard matchups for jiggs, but they are. As for Olimar, it kind of goes both ways. I have a lot of trouble with him on the stage, but if you can get him anywhere off the stage, it's an easy kill for Jiggs. Just hit him when he's off the stage (especially after his second jump) and grab onto the ledge. He will die. But I've played an olimar that I just couldn't get off the stage and it was impossible.

One that I'm surprised you didn't mention was Zelda. The range and priority of her smashes are a nightmare, and I find myself getting hit by almost all of the multiple hits (I will guess it's because of Jiggs' size). Din's fire has a humongous hitbox and she can aim it at you even when you are in the air. I fought a guy at my last tournament who has a jigglypuff in his crew, so he knew how to counter her. All he had to do was use din's fire when I was far, and Smashes when I was near. I switched characters after that.

Zelda is a major pain in the ***. The reason why I didn't place her up there is because I've only played one game against a zelda, but honestly, it sucked really really hard and was a major pain in the *** just beating a scrub. So yeah, I can agree with that.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Zelda is a major pain in the ***. The reason why I didn't place her up there is because I've only played one game against a zelda, but honestly, it sucked really really hard and was a major pain in the *** just beating a scrub. So yeah, I can agree with that.

Alright, I see. Also, do you have trouble with match ups against Ness? I find them annoying. His Fair especially out-priorities most of jigglypuff's areals but his other aerials do to. His bat and his Pk Thunder (on himself) kill at brokenly low percents, too. Obviously a good strategy is to hit him off the edge and try to gimp him, but if you mess up, his Pk thunder will kill under 50 percent easily. All is really has to do is hit you until 40%, use Pk fire, and while you are caught, he hits himself with Pk thunder, sadly killing you.

Oh, and a strategy I use on D3's who use too much Bair is going under them to the other side to attack, because really, it has disturbing range and out priorities pound. It's an obvious tactic, but really, don't try and beat his Bair.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Alright, I see. Also, do you have trouble with match ups against Ness? I find them annoying. His Fair especially out-priorities most of jigglypuff's areals but his other aerials do to. His bat and his Pk Thunder (on himself) kill at brokenly low percents, too. Obviously a good strategy is to hit him off the edge and try to gimp him, but if you mess up, his Pk thunder will kill under 50 percent easily. All is really has to do is hit you until 40%, use Pk fire, and while you are caught, he hits himself with Pk thunder, sadly killing you.

Ness is annoying because his fair wrecks you, so basically if he just chills and fairs all the time, its way hard to touch him, but his pk fire should never be a problem. Its really slow and easy to avoid. The reason why ness isn't an amazing hard match though is because you just need to get him off the edge and then get in the way of his pk thunder and he falls down and dies. If you get in the way of the pk thunder 2 he'll probably die as well because it shortens the range by a **** ton but it'll probably kill you, but yeah, ness definately has the upper hand in the matchup.

 

[HiddenBowser]

What second main do you guys have for dealing with the counters? Olimar is really strong against a G+W, so I suggest learning him. He would do decently at least against the other two, but what you you guys suggest for olimar and D3 counters?

Well I play a mean ROB so he takes care of olimar, ddd (sorta), snake, dk, and charizard. Unfortanately MK owns ROB harder than he owns Jiggs. G&W and Falco own ROB as well. I'm starting to play Wario as well mainly because he's more like melee jiggs than brawl jiggs is, lol, and hes fun as hell to play, but if you want the best matchup possiblity for these guys play as Snake. But watch out, Snake gets owned by ROB and Pikachu.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Useful thread! (it's hard enough to find in the Jigglypuff boards -_-)

Olimar is a difficult match-up, I agree. It's a battle of superior spacing...

 

[Jigglymaster]

imo easy for DDD choose diddy kong cause Diddy Kong ***** DDD. Luigi should be an honerable mention because he is tough.

 

[HiddenBowser]

why does diddy **** ddd?

Like everyone is a hard matchup for jiggs, lol, convince me why luigi should be up there and I may add him I know from experience that his nair beats like everything you have but hes just so floaty and its kinda easy to string attacks together, and rising nair footstool edge guard works wonders on him.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Luigi has a better kill move than Jigglypuff's Rest, and it even has the same "PING!" sounds when it connects... :'(

But seriously, Luigi's aerials have more priority than Jigglypuff's aerials, all his smash attacks kill at low percentages, and his recovery is average/above-average.

Having said that, Luigi, in my opinion, isn't really as hard of a match-up compared to the likes of Snake or G&W. I don't think he should deserve a mention as an "impossible match-up."

 

[HiddenBowser]

Rest is a lot easier to land than Rocket punch. So what if you can jab rocket punch, if your opponent just holds away during the jab, the rocket punch won't land. And luigi's smashes aren't fast enough to connect a semi decent amount of the time.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Hmmm... I'll disagree with you that Luigi's smashes actually come out quite fast. It's just that his smashes have little range (maybe that's what you meant as opposed to saying they aren't fast enough?).

In my previous post, I meant to say that Luigi's UpB killed at a lower percent, not that it was necessarily a "better kill move." I apologize for that. I actually meant for the UpB thing to be a joke xD

 

[Glick]

With Zelda I pound away at her din fires. It cancels out. Once the Zelda sees that you can block her din fires they start to move in. Pound through her up smash pointing down or avoid it completely. Not a hard match up.

I have ALOT of trouble with MK. I always have. MK just owns my playing style. I play a little recklessly. I'm trying not to. I'd usually change characters if I see a MK. Also Grab, hit hit hit hit release roll to rest works REALLY well on him. I've used it on many MK. They start charging up a down smash. You can kill them at low percents.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Diddy pwns DDD cause bananas don't give him a lot of space expecially when he needs that space to chain throw. Hes a big target and diddy kong is a very small target and is very fast. On the luigi part is arieals can beat yours, he can juggle you, he can kill you and his arieals are quick so sheilding won't help cause he'll keep attacking you untill he lands a smash attack on you. I know this because I've played a luigi in the grand finals of a tournament and almost lost. The only thing that jigglypuff does have is that luigi can be gimped.

 

[PND]

Here is a list of characters that I would highly recommend that you get a 2nd main for (in order of difficulty):
-Olimar (Beats you in every ****ing way and kills you very easily)
-DDD (******** range that you can't get around along with an annoying projectile)
-G&W (******** bair that you can't get around)

Debatable:
-Falco (Projectiles get way the **** in the way and completely shuts you down / is gimpable)
-Snake (******** tilts, kills you easy, doesn't die from rest til 103% / once you get him in the air, all he can really do is airdodge)

Honorable mention:
-DK (good range and great bair owns you, kills you at low percents)
-Charizard (rock smash goes through everything you have)
-MK (fast, good range / doesn't kill you til high percents, dies at 65% from rest)
-Ness (fair outranges everything and other moves have lots of priority as well / once you get him off the edge he's dead)

Feel free to discuss all you want, but imo these are Jigglypuff's hardest matchups and you should find a 2nd main in dealing with them.

DK, Snake, MK, and Olimar I generally don't have major problems with. The others, yes. holy hell yes.

DK kills you EARLY, is quick, and rest doesn't kill until late. He's also heavy and a huge target. I play DKs all the time, but I don't have so much of a problem against him if you can avoid his killing moves (read: any move.) Just keep poking him until you can pop him in the air, and don't let him get his back to you in the air. If he does get his back to you aerially, retreat. Try again, or hope he's at a high % for a rest kill.

Snakes kill you early, but knock him in the air, and as mentioned, all he can do is airdodge. Wait for the airdodge before you launch your next attack and catch them as they come of out of the invincibility. If they don't, or they try and attack (for some terrible, terrible reason), his aerials are laggy enough that you should be able to hit him first, or if he hits the ground he'll lag for a decade and you have time to *safely* short charge a rollout, rest, DSmash, or whatever. If he approaches with snakedashing, first laugh at him and call him a scrub. Then do pretty much any aerial as he approaches with it. (I'm fond of SHnair) Get around the grenades and don't stick around long enough to be in range for his tilts. The forward tilt is pretty punishable if he misses. The up tilt is ridiculous, and should be avoided at all costs. Play defensive to win.

I've only played a few good Olimars, and his is terrifying. Incredible grab game shuts down aerials, all his moves beat yours, and he's deceptively fast. If you get him in an aerial combo, especially off the stage, he can WAC it and hit you. He's gimpable though. I'm good at gimping, so that's essentially why I don't have too many problems with him. Although getting a white pikmin stuck on you is frightening (OH NOEZ! PERCENTS!) and Purples kill you for sport. Pound approaches, and let the Olimar come to you.

MKs is just god tier, but I don't have a lot of problems with him either. Rest will be your best friend. Be a defensive ***** until you can land one, really.

Charizard: Wait until he's fatigued and make him switch.

Also, I find good, campy Marios are quite difficult.

 

[Steel]

Curious as to why Marth isn't up there?

 

[HiddenBowser]

DK, Snake, MK, and Olimar I generally don't have major problems with. The others, yes. holy hell yes.

DK kills you EARLY, is quick, and rest doesn't kill until late. He's also heavy and a huge target. I play DKs all the time, but I don't have so much of a problem against him if you can avoid his killing moves (read: any move.) Just keep poking him until you can pop him in the air, and don't let him get his back to you in the air. If he does get his back to you aerially, retreat. Try again, or hope he's at a high % for a rest kill.

Snakes kill you early, but knock him in the air, and as mentioned, all he can do is airdodge. Wait for the airdodge before you launch your next attack and catch them as they come of out of the invincibility. If they don't, or they try and attack (for some terrible, terrible reason), his aerials are laggy enough that you should be able to hit him first, or if he hits the ground he'll lag for a decade and you have time to *safely* short charge a rollout, rest, DSmash, or whatever. If he approaches with snakedashing, first laugh at him and call him a scrub. Then do pretty much any aerial as he approaches with it. (I'm fond of SHnair) Get around the grenades and don't stick around long enough to be in range for his tilts. The forward tilt is pretty punishable if he misses. The up tilt is ridiculous, and should be avoided at all costs. Play defensive to win.

I've only played a few good Olimars, and his is terrifying. Incredible grab game shuts down aerials, all his moves beat yours, and he's deceptively fast. If you get him in an aerial combo, especially off the stage, he can WAC it and hit you. He's gimpable though. I'm good at gimping, so that's essentially why I don't have too many problems with him. Although getting a white pikmin stuck on you is frightening (OH NOEZ! PERCENTS!) and Purples kill you for sport. Pound approaches, and let the Olimar come to you.

MKs is just god tier, but I don't have a lot of problems with him either. Rest will be your best friend. Be a defensive ***** until you can land one, really.

Charizard: Wait until he's fatigued and make him switch.

Also, I find good, campy Marios are quite difficult.

Play better people

Curious as to why Marth isn't up there?

Marth's might have a ton of range but its really not too hard to get inside of his aerials with using your shield and stuff. I'd say Marth is about and even matchup.

 

[Steel]

Even? Unless jiggs uses pound marth can camp jiggs with a freaking jab. A good marth isn't going to be using aerials all day.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Hmmm... I'll disagree with you that Luigi's smashes actually come out quite fast. It's just that his smashes have little range (maybe that's what you meant as opposed to saying they aren't fast enough?).

In my previous post, I meant to say that Luigi's UpB killed at a lower percent, not that it was necessarily a "better kill move." I apologize for that. I actually meant for the UpB thing to be a joke xD

No, I agree. Luigi's smashes are really fast, and kill easily. Rocket punch is stupid, and they should have nerfed it when they nerfed rest. Even if it is harder to hit, it is hardly as punishable as rest is. If you screw up with it, you will land a hit that will stun them only, and they will be lucky to get an uncharged smash in.

With Zelda I pound away at her din fires. It cancels out. Once the Zelda sees that you can block her din fires they start to move in. Pound through her up smash pointing down or avoid it completely. Not a hard match up.

I have ALOT of trouble with MK. I always have. MK just owns my playing style. I play a little recklessly. I'm trying not to. I'd usually change characters if I see a MK. Also Grab, hit hit hit hit release roll to rest works REALLY well on him. I've used it on many MK. They start charging up a down smash. You can kill them at low percents.

Oh, I've blocked her Din's fire with pound before, but I thought it was more of a fluke. How do you get past her Fsmash, though? That's what I have trouble with.

Could you explain again about rolling into rest? You've mentioned the grab-let go before, But it didn't work when I tried it out, and I used a good number of people.

DK, Snake, MK, and Olimar I generally don't have major problems with. The others, yes. holy hell yes.

DK kills you EARLY, is quick, and rest doesn't kill until late. He's also heavy and a huge target. I play DKs all the time, but I don't have so much of a problem against him if you can avoid his killing moves (read: any move.) Just keep poking him until you can pop him in the air, and don't let him get his back to you in the air. If he does get his back to you aerially, retreat. Try again, or hope he's at a high % for a rest kill.

Snakes kill you early, but knock him in the air, and as mentioned, all he can do is airdodge. Wait for the airdodge before you launch your next attack and catch them as they come of out of the invincibility. If they don't, or they try and attack (for some terrible, terrible reason), his aerials are laggy enough that you should be able to hit him first, or if he hits the ground he'll lag for a decade and you have time to *safely* short charge a rollout, rest, DSmash, or whatever. If he approaches with snakedashing, first laugh at him and call him a scrub. Then do pretty much any aerial as he approaches with it. (I'm fond of SHnair) Get around the grenades and don't stick around long enough to be in range for his tilts. The forward tilt is pretty punishable if he misses. The up tilt is ridiculous, and should be avoided at all costs. Play defensive to win.

I've only played a few good Olimars, and his is terrifying. Incredible grab game shuts down aerials, all his moves beat yours, and he's deceptively fast. If you get him in an aerial combo, especially off the stage, he can WAC it and hit you. He's gimpable though. I'm good at gimping, so that's essentially why I don't have too many problems with him. Although getting a white pikmin stuck on you is frightening (OH NOEZ! PERCENTS!) and Purples kill you for sport. Pound approaches, and let the Olimar come to you.

MKs is just god tier, but I don't have a lot of problems with him either. Rest will be your best friend. Be a defensive ***** until you can land one, really.

Charizard: Wait until he's fatigued and make him switch.

Also, I find good, campy Marios are quite difficult.

Hey, man. Long time no see.

Ya, I agree with a lot of what you said, especially about the white pikmin.

What about Zelda? You mentioned you had a strategy for her. Wait, Campy Mario... Oh, you're talking about that guy, aren't you?

Even? Unless jiggs uses pound marth can camp jiggs with a freaking jab. A good marth isn't going to be using aerials all day.

No, it's quite even. Marth is campy, what else is new? If Jiggs gets all up in his face with quick aerials, she'll be too close to get a decent hit on her. Obviously, it's approaching that's the hard part.

I find Marth's 'calculate' too much, and by that I mean they tend to stand at the same spot (at the edge, for example) and do an Fsmash when you get close. They do this because of the nature of the character, but it's predictable. Also, most Jiggs players move around differently than most characters (if you don't then you should here) and that messes with their "measurements."

 

[Steel]

No, it's quite even. Marth is campy, what else is new? If Jiggs gets all up in his face with quick aerials, she'll be too close to get a decent hit on her. Obviously, it's approaching that's the hard part.

I find Marth's 'calculate' too much, and by that I mean they tend to stand at the same spot (at the edge, for example) and do an Fsmash when you get close. They do this because of the nature of the character, but it's predictable. Also, most Jiggs players move around differently than most characters (if you don't then you should here) and that messes with their "measurements."

What marths are you playing? >_>

And I know how jiggs 'moves', i play her. She has nothing on marth.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Charizard: Wait until he's fatigued and make him switch.

A good Pokemon Trainer will never switch Charizard unless he's taken off a stock and he's at a low percent. Why would you switch your tanking powerhouse at a high percentage for a character that's easily knocked out? Plus, even when he's fatigued, Charizard isn't bad. You still have to be very careful.

 

[HiddenBowser]

What marths are you playing? >_>

And I know how jiggs 'moves', i play her. She has nothing on marth.

Ok, so i guess a marth that only does retreating fairs would be a ***** to fight agaisnt, but his aerials have enough to lag and he's a predictable character to get inside his range. use powershielding, and play semi aggressively with a **** ton of grabs, it works wonders.

 

[Steel]

Ok, so i guess a marth that only does retreating fairs would be a ***** to fight agaisnt, but his aerials have enough to lag and he's a predictable character to get inside his range. use powershielding, and play semi aggressively with a **** ton of grabs, it works wonders.

Retreating fairs work yeah. Marth can make a wall with a double fair in place and his aerials auto cancel (as im sure you know).

But marth can also camp you just on the ground, if a marth is using nothing but fairs that's obviously predictable and easy to beat.

Dancing blade will tear you apart. Ftilt beats any short hop approach. If marth manages to land a tipper on jiggs she'll die REAL early.

When you say a ton of grabs do you mean shield grabbing? A lot of people that don't play marth thinks he is easily shield grabbed. A good marth will space his aerials. He won't be getting shield grabbed too much.

And uh, shield breaker.

This match is 70:30 marth, at best 65:35.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I'm talking mix your approach up between running up and shielding in front of them (trying to bait out an attack in which case you would sh an aerial or something out of your shield), and running up and just grabbing (try to convince them to stay hold off attacking because they think you're going to run up and shield). This game is seriously just a game of rock paper scissors and the trying to force your opponent to pick a certain choice, thus reacting in a way to own them.

 

[Steel]

I'm talking mix your approach up between running up and shielding in front of them (trying to bait out an attack in which case you would sh an aerial or something out of your shield), and running up and just grabbing (try to convince them to stay hold off attacking because they think you're going to run up and shield). This game is seriously just a game of rock paper scissors and the trying to force your opponent to pick a certain choice, thus reacting in a way to own them.

I can see it being an effective approach, but if it's used too often Marth can just use shield breaker regardless if you put up shield or not.

But now you're getting into the mind game aspect of things and they have no place in a match-up discussion.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I can see it being an effective approach, but if it's used too often Marth can just use shield breaker regardless if you put up shield or not.

But now you're getting into the mind game aspect of things and they have no place in a match-up discussion.

Shield breaker doesn't brake shields, and shields come back so fast in brawl, so like, I invite the shield breaker because its always a free hit for me.

I guess I am getting a bit into the mind game aspect, but it kinda isn't because your opponent knows you are going to do one of 2 options and he has 2 ways that he can react (each counters one but gets owned by the other) so if you look at it that way, the matchup basically comes down a repeated coin flip for damage and then once he gets to 81% you just kill him with a rest and then once you get to like 120% he kills you.

 

[Steel]

Shield breaker doesn't brake shields, and shields come back so fast in brawl, so like, I invite the shield breaker because its always a free hit.

I guess I am getting a bit into the mind game aspect, but it kinda isn't because your opponent knows you are going to do one of 2 options and he has 2 ways that he can react (each counters one but gets owned by the other) so if you look at it that way, the matchup basically comes down a repeated coin flip for damage and then once he gets to 81% you just kill him with a rest and then once you get to like 120% he kills you.

Lulz, shield breaker is nasty. It breaks shields. But i was just throwing that out there, there are plenty of options to deal with that approach. Dancing blade being one.

And unless the Marth screws up, eg misses with a smash, lags from up-b, etc i can't imagine that dair being very easy to land. Like i said an ftilt can keep away any SH approach.

Also more likely than not Marth will kill Jiggs before 120%.

 

[Dyxnar14]

I once Mained Jiggs but man the top 3 are headaches

 

[Glick]

Oh, I've blocked her Din's fire with pound before, but I thought it was more of a fluke. How do you get past her Fsmash, though? That's what I have trouble with.

Could you explain again about rolling into rest? You've mentioned the grab-let go before, But it didn't work when I tried it out, and I used a good number of people.

I wasn't very clear on my roll to rest. I've done some more practice with it and it appears to work on only a few characters.

It works 100% on DK and MK. I'm thinking of doing an experiment and posting it up here.

Heres the tech: Grab, pummle pummle, release (if it goes horizontally), roll towards them and your set up perfectly to a rest. It shouldn't work more then once on a good player. Its very easy to dodge.

Now memorize the distance between you and your oppononent, doing empty short hops. Then get the right measurments and roll towards them to rest. Its great when you catch them while their landing.

You could also catch them with a rollout while their landing. If your having trouble resting you can try this. It works more often then you think.

With zelda you just have to dodge those. Pound is your friend.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

What marths are you playing? >_>

And I know how jiggs 'moves', i play her. She has nothing on marth.

90% of the Marth's I play do this. You might know how she moves but most people don't.

Retreating fairs work yeah. Marth can make a wall with a double fair in place and his aerials auto cancel (as im sure you know).

But marth can also camp you just on the ground, if a marth is using nothing but fairs that's obviously predictable and easy to beat.

Dancing blade will tear you apart. Ftilt beats any short hop approach. If marth manages to land a tipper on jiggs she'll die REAL early.

When you say a ton of grabs do you mean shield grabbing? A lot of people that don't play marth thinks he is easily shield grabbed. A good marth will space his aerials. He won't be getting shield grabbed too much.

Reatreating Fairs is way too predictable. Best counter, I would say, is canceling a dash into an upsmash to end up right under him when he's pretty high in the air.

What? Dancing blade? Half the time Jigglypuff will just pop out of that because of her weight. It can't really KO, and it can do 21% at the most if every hit of the down combo hits (which it won't).

When Marth is camping, there is an area he can't touch you in (mostly beyond the reach of his Fsmash in the air) being there, you can wait for him to make a move by airdogding in range, shifting in and out of his range, etc. If he hits you with a tipper, it will hurt, so don't get hit by one.

Really, your just an exception because you know how to counter Jiggs, since you play her. Normally, Marth players don't know how to counter her like you do. I've 3 stocked a Marth on Delphino before (he wasn't very good, mind you) and I don't have trouble with the better ones anymore.

I wasn't very clear on my roll to rest. I've done some more practice with it and it appears to work on only a few characters.

It works 100% on DK and MK. I'm thinking of doing an experiment and posting it up here.

Heres the tech: Grab, pummle pummle, release (if it goes horizontally), roll towards them and your set up perfectly to a rest. It shouldn't work more then once on a good player. Its very easy to dodge.

Now memorize the distance between you and your oppononent, doing empty short hops. Then get the right measurments and roll towards them to rest. Its great when you catch them while their landing.

You could also catch them with a rollout while their landing. If your having trouble resting you can try this. It works more often then you think.

With zelda you just have to dodge those. Pound is your friend.

That's great, I will defenently try that out.

 

[Emblem Lord]

My question for you is this?

How can an inferior character go even with a superior character when they are outranged, out powered, have inferior offensive options, and inferior defensive options?

It's not really debatable.

Marth has advantage on Jiggz and he can wall her pretty easily. It's most likely 70/30.

Also..Bowyer made a serious thread? And he isn't trolling?

Impressive.

 

[Zankoku]

Bowyer, I'm pretty sure Marth vs Jiggs isn't even. Yes, you can do baits with shield and camp all day, but so can Marth, and he can do it much more safely. The only difference is that I jump at you and fair like a moron, so I'm a poor example to base Marth exp. on.

 

[illinialex24]

Bowyer, I'm pretty sure Marth vs Jiggs isn't even. Yes, you can do baits with shield and camp all day, but so can Marth, and he can do it much more safely. The only difference is that I jump at you and fair like a moron, so I'm a poor example to base Marth exp. on.

Marth vs. Jiggs is actually much more even than the last two posters have imagined. Jigglypuff's pound outranges Marth's fair and bair, her dair really screws with his game. Also, an unexpected fair can do wonders, and once Marth is decently off-stage, he is dead. The trick is to use well spaced falling pounds well with a backwards DI, use unexpected fairs, roll in tilts and dash attacks and go from a bad fair (you hit with the sex kick) to an F-smash. Also, back throws kill marth. However, you have to air dodge a lot and try to force him to counter, it will be one of his last moves. If your constantly in the air, he will counter a lot which is when you grab him and rack up damage with her great throws.

its 55-45 at worst, its a fair matchup as long as the Jigglypuff is good (there are not too many users who are as good as Bowyer, so its hard to face a really good Jigglypuff).

 

[Zankoku]

Are you really planning on spamming Pound just to try to outrange some sort of direct approach all day? Neither character is explicitly forced to approach.