Ike+

[TL?]

Any other ike users out there? I'm liking ike so far. He has good edge guarding options with d-tilt, fsmash, neutral b, and counter. Also, a running d-tilt seems to be better than his dash attack most of the time. Ike might accually have some combos now too and hopefully you guys can share some. Dair to fsmash seems to work on lvl 9 computers at very specific %s. I haven't been able to try it on any good oponents yet so hopefully you guys can help me out with that one.

 

[5ive]

Ike+ moar.

 

[TL?]

Ike+ moar.

There, I changed it just for you. Now you have to return the favor by contributing feedback about Ike+.

 

[Rudra]

Ike is a total monster in B+. His Fair's range coupled with shield stun makes it a great approach tactic, and his nair still gets the good ol' Nair>Jab combo done effectively. Speaking of jabs, DC Jabs are also an interesting way to approach as they come out nice and quick, and of course can be canceled to a grab or tilt.

His Dthrow is also signifigantly better, allowing you to chain fast fallers at low percents, and even follow up with a RAR Bair if you chase their DI during the chain. Against floatier characters, Dthrow>Uair/Bair works nicely to add up damage at low %. Dair is devastating. I think it can be done at least twice from 0% and almost always lead into an FSmash, but I often go for Utilt/Usmash should the enemy try DI'ing up and away.

When edgeguarding, I usually go for Eruption thanks to its massive hitbox and no ASL. It's probably my favorite move on the ledge. Of course, Dtilting is neat every now and then, as is Dair'ing in an attempt to spike, but Eruption is just too good.

 

[5ive]

There, I changed it just for you. Now you have to return the favor by contributing feedback about Ike+.

Heh, I would, but I don't play Ike at all. Good luck with the discussion though.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Ike is so freakin' fun. Dair->f-smash LEGIT COMBO!!! DC jab is fun nair->fair is fun. Ike is just a freakin speedy powerhouse (and yes I just said Ike was fast. It is true)

 

[Wavedash Master]

Ike is so freakin' fun. Dair->f-smash LEGIT COMBO!!! DC jab is fun nair->fair is fun. Ike is just a freakin speedy powerhouse (and yes I just said Ike was fast. It is true)

Especially with the lower cooldown the new Nair has, it's a great move to space with. His large hitboxes make him very much like a brick wall.

 

[XACE-K]

From my time of playing Brawl+ (in late December and early January which didn't have some of the codes there are now), he felt much like Melee Ganon to me. He was strong and slow, yet he was really good. Ike's ground game is better thanks to him being able to combo (nair-> fair like Dark said). His throws were better overall, and so were his air and edgeguarding game.

If only Ike was like this in regular Brawl....

 

[Dark Sonic]

Ike even has the beastly gtfo jab that Ganon had, only you can chose to jab cancel it instead and do other **** lol

 

[metroid1117]

Ike is SO FUN in Brawl+.

Like Rudra said, DThrow is much better; DThrow -> BAir is nearly inescapable now even if they DI away from you. BThrow can be used at from 0% to chaingrab some characters, but it doesn't last very long. The good thing about BThrow and FThrow, however, is that they link to dash attacks more easily than ever. I have yet to properly experiment this, but BThrow -> walk-off FAir from the stage or platforms may be a combo.

Now with auto l-canceling, FAir is an amazing shut-out move. Coupled with NAirs, BAirs, and jabs, your opponent will have a hard time getting in when you space properly. It's slightly harder to auto-cancel his BAir from a short-hop, but it's still doable.

DAir is great now; it's a risky move to use since it has a rather limited hitbox, but it pops opponents up for combos quite nicely when you hit them from the ground, akin to Falcon's DAir in Melee; DAir -> UAir gives your opponent a priceless look on their face when it connects at high %s.

The best thing is that Ike still has his jab game, which has been buffed, if anything, because of the noticeably decreased hitlag; this makes it harder to SDI out of his jabs. Jab -> UTilt or jab -> BAir have become more viable as a result of this, and jab -> grab is now safer than ever.

Most importantly though, Ike's edgeguarding game has received a significant buff. No auto-sweetspotting? Let's see... DTilt, Eruption, FSmash, and reverse USmash are now all viable edgeguarding moves, in addition to what he already had in Brawl (walk-off DAir, walk-off UAir, walk-off FAir, BAir, reverse Aether, etc.). Eruption simply wrecks recoveries like Ness' and Lucas', and gives DK and Bowser nowhere to go when mixed with reverse Aethers.

@the random people reading this thread: If you haven't tried Ike yet, try him now. He's VERY fun .

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What exactly can Ike's first jab true combo into now in Brawl+? I'm curious as to what he can do out of Jab Canceling. Does Dtilt combo out of Jab? Because that thing should have some beast hitstun being a spike and all.

 

[Sukai]

I tend to go for single strikes with Ike+.
Decent mindgaming might I add. My favorite thing about Ike+ is no more neutral air suicides.
His recovery options suffer more so now, it's bad.
At least down tilt spikes are easier.

 

[Dark Sonic]

What exactly can Ike's first jab true combo into now in Brawl+? I'm curious as to what he can do out of Jab Canceling. Does Dtilt combo out of Jab? Because that thing should have some beast hitstun being a spike and all.

Jab->grab is a true combo, as well as jab to bair. I think jab canceling after the first two jabs to uptilt might be a true combo as well.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Jab 1 has more hitstun then jab 2. It's that way in vBrawl, should be the same way in Brawl+.

There should also be some combos that are true combos if the opponent doesn't jump: as Jab -> Grab and Jab -> Dsmash were true combos in that sense in vBrawl. I just REALLY hope it true combos into Dtilt....that would be just sexy, both for KOs by the ledge, and for combos at low %s.

 

[metroid1117]

Jab 1 has more hitstun then jab 2. It's that way in vBrawl, should be the same way in Brawl+.

There should also be some combos that are true combos if the opponent doesn't jump: as Jab -> Grab and Jab -> Dsmash were true combos in that sense in vBrawl. I just REALLY hope it true combos into Dtilt....that would be just sexy, both for KOs by the ledge, and for combos at low %s.

From my experience, DTilt is still too slow for jab -> DTilt to count as a combo.

BUT... DTilt is slightly more useful than in Brawl not only because it actually sets up for combos and is great for edgeguarding, but also because you can now crouch and DTilt from a dash; you actually slide a bit while DTilting (not much, but it's there). Probably the most useful application for this is running to the edge and spiking your opponent, but it might also be used to punish a whiffed attack if you space it properly.

What do you guys think of Aether being the general combo finisher for damage? Ike's not that good at juggling (the only moves he has for this are NAir, UTilt, and UAir, all of which with the exception of NAir are too slow and too powerful for this), so if you get your opponent in the air, why not Aether at low %s, since at high-mid %s you should be ending with BAir to get your opponent out? Aether has been made considerably better because of the diminished hitlag, so it's harder to DI out of it now; in my opinion, it can be good for adding damage if used properly. What do you guys think?

 

[doom dragon 105]

Man Ike is fun. Lets all try to expand him and make him better.

Bair walls are so good.

I wouldn't say Ike is as good as everyone else though, but he is at least mid middle tier

 

[metaXzero]

So. Anyone wanna talk about match-ups?

Like his worst ones we can see?

 

[doom dragon 105]

Worst = Lucario

For me at least

Disjointed jabs shut you down

He can combo you to hell

 

[Finns7]

I wish his sideB didnt put him in fall speacial swing or not. Because of the hitlag its harder to DI and alot of attacks send you at a horizontal angle. Anyway Lucario can be annoying and you cant really edguard him like other chars cus he can sweetspot the ledge.

What are some known Ike combos.

 

[theeboredone]

I am having trouble doing Ike's jab cancel in comparison to regular Brawl. Anyone have any tips on when to crouch cancel? It seems like it's harder for me to cancel if I do Jab, Kick than it is to just do Jab, Jab. But watching Silven's community Brawl+ video, his jab cancels are off the charts and way faster than mine.

Edit: Also, I don't actually understand the purpose behind L-Cancel. Can someone re-direct me to a thread that explains how to do it, specifically in Brawl+? Sorry, never was into Melee.

Edit 2: Also, any other uh...things from Melee that carried over into Brawl+ that I'm not aware of? Wave dash and etc?

 

[Mattnumbers]

I am having trouble doing Ike's jab cancel in comparison to regular Brawl. Anyone have any tips on when to crouch cancel? It seems like it's harder for me to cancel if I do Jab, Kick than it is to just do Jab, Jab. But watching Silven's community Brawl+ video, his jab cancels are off the charts and way faster than mine.

Edit: Also, I don't actually understand the purpose behind L-Cancel. Can someone re-direct me to a thread that explains how to do it, specifically in Brawl+? Sorry, never was into Melee.

Edit 2: Also, any other uh...things from Melee that carried over into Brawl+ that I'm not aware of? Wave dash and etc?

In Brawl+ L-cancelling is automatic. And as far as I know there aren't any melee techs in Brawl+ that weren't in Brawl.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Edit 2: Also, any other uh...things from Melee that carried over into Brawl+ that I'm not aware of? Wave dash and etc?

L-canceling is not in brawl+ per say. We have ALR (aerial lag reduction), which just means we reduced the landing lag of all aerials across the board (some characters got a larger reduction, but 50% is the average reduction).

Other melee techs we re-introduced are dash cancel (pressing down during a run will make you crouch)...we made dash dancing bigger. Everything else was pretty much in brawl already.

 

[Nybb]

I really enjoy Ike+...it's not too hard to build a bit of damage, and then if your opponent ever gets predictable for even a second, THUD! and they are off the stage, or just dead. The no-autosweetspotting code is a huge help to him: he can still sweetspot with side-B, and as others have said, eruption is just too awesome for edgeguarding. This plus the slight recovery boost and n-air buff make him quite viable, although not exactly top tier as of now. Regardless, he is VERY fun to play.

As far as matchups go, I'd have to say tat Jiggs seems to be in Ike's favour from a few plays. She can defintely rest combo Ike, but his range is good enough to keep her away most of the time, and if she ever rests, she dies if she misses, and if she connects she probably still dies once you come back.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm not sure if it's common practice for players yet, but if you guys haven't tried this with characters, try run canceling into jabs (pressing down during run makes you crouch, basically resetting to standing). Ike's jab has ALWAYS been amazing in it's speed, low knockback, and his AAA in general is beast, but with him able to run in with a jab to grab, or jab > AAA, man it's nice as ****. Try it, you'll love it.

 

[BurningCrusader777]

Nair fsmash combos on fast fallers from ~55 to 65.

Also, near worthless bit of info... on neutral DI, Ike can dthrow x 4 (with 2 pummels in total), SHFF uair nair nair, fsmash on Captain Falcon. The CG part should be inescapable despite DI, but after the last dthrow, uair probably won't hit if CF DIs away.

 

[Nybb]

So. Anyone wanna talk about match-ups?

Like his worst ones we can see?

I'm pretty sure any character with really good offstage gimp games can just wreck Ike. In particular ROB, MK, Kirby, Wario, Charizard, etc. His lack of extra jumps, aerial mobility, fall speed, slow aerial attacks, and bad recovery just make him too easy to gimp.

Against these characters you basically can assume that Ike being offstage = a stock. Some of these matchups are mitigated by the fact that Ike can just outrange his opponents, such as Kirby and Wario. But those gimping characters with good range like Charizard or with projectiles like ROB can just walk all over Ike IMO.

 

[1048576]

I think Ike got nerfed by Brawl+'s engine. While his aerial game is now superpowered due to the lag reduction, he gets comboed now, and the opponent should still be landing more hits, as Ike is still one of the slower characters, so it's pretty conceivable that Ike could get hit three times and lose his stock, whereas in vbrawl, it took like 8 or 9 hits.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think Ike got nerfed by Brawl+'s engine. While his aerial game is now superpowered due to the lag reduction, he gets comboed now, and the opponent should still be landing more hits, as Ike is still one of the slower characters, so it's pretty conceivable that Ike could get hit three times and lose his stock, whereas in vbrawl, it took like 8 or 9 hits.

however, Ike also has a few solid combos of his own (mostly two hitters <_<) and has a much safer aerial game (fair and bair are now safe on block lol).

His jab cancel game is even sexier now that he can dash->jab, and the lack of momentum canceling is helping him kill a lot earlier (his momentum cancel was terrible, so he really didn't lose much).

Ike still lost quite a bit since he can now be combo'd....but he's still mostly solid.

 

[Rayku]

I still think Ike's recovery is destructively terrible. He can't sweetspot it, from my experience, and several characters have that annoying thing Donkey Kong did in vBrawl (where Ike's offstage, he gets Ftilted until he gets Fsmashed to death).

I main Ike in Brawl+. He's always been one of my favorite characters in the game, and this is just awesome to have him viable. Eruption is quite possibly the best edgeguard ever.

I'd say Ness is a pretty hard opponent for Ike. The upB chains into itself, almost, and is hard to get around. He has no way of canceling the move aerially, so that could be why.

I hope to start winning more consistently with Ike, to show how legitimate F-air spamming is. Brawl+ Ike is the Ganondorf of Melee.

 

[PKNintendo]

Hehe, just dropping in, but I honestly think Ike is a spectacular character in Brawl+.

They nerfed Ness Up. It can only chain on the ground. (no longer in the air)
But... Ike lost his grab release techs, so Ness isn't ****** over.

 

[BG3]

I seriously think Ike should get the same Quick Draw properties he has in Balanced Brawl. Meaning if he performs the move in the air, he doesn't go into a helpless state. This would massively help his gimping problems as well as his mobility problem. Heck, Ganon has it, so I'm not so sure as to why Ike can't either.

 

[Nybb]

I seriously think Ike should get the same Quick Draw properties he has in Balanced Brawl. Meaning if he performs the move in the air, he doesn't go into a helpless state. This would massively help his gimping problems as well as his mobility problem. Heck, Ganon has it, so I'm not so sure as to why Ike can't either.

This was already tried, but taken back out. It enabled Ike to go under stages and was just kind of silly in general. I think his current state is fine as far as recovery is concerned, with the side-b not putting Ike into the helpless state if it hits somebody. His vBrawl recovery was stupid, but it doesn't need to be buffed to the extent that BBrawl has done.

 

[BG3]

This was already tried, but taken back out. It enabled Ike to go under stages and was just kind of silly in general. I think his current state is fine as far as recovery is concerned, with the side-b not putting Ike into the helpless state if it hits somebody. His vBrawl recovery was stupid, but it doesn't need to be buffed to the extent that BBrawl has done.

IMO, in its current state, his recovery is still pretty terrible. He gets gimped terribly often with much ease. And I don't see why this mechanic was taken out, it helped his recovery like anything. I mean, Pika and Luigi can go under stages with this same method and nothing seems to be wrong with that. But if this Quick Draw method is really not working out, then here is what I suggest. As long as Ike doesn't charge the move, he doesn't go into a helpless state, BUT if he charges the move even a little bit, then the move acts like it currently does now, meaning he'll go into a helpless state. So, if Ike uses Quick Draw without charging it in the slightest, then he won't go into a helpless state. IMHO, this would help out Ike a lot without giving him the infinite Quick Draw method that didn't seem to work with the Brawl+ devs. Leaving Ike's recovery alone like it is now will still bring about the same gimping problems he has. It is one of the most terrible recoveries in the game, possibly worse than Ganon only because it is so easy to gimp. I really think this issue should at least be revised or fixed to make his recovery not as crappy as it is now.

Anyways, my 2 cents on Ike's recovery issue.

 

[Revven]

The main issue with making the whole move of Quick Draw have no special fall is that he could chase you offstage with it and finish you off with a Fair or a Dair... something both Pikachu and Luigi can't do with their Side Bs. Also, I don't believe there is a way in PSA to say "when fully charged, he doesn't go into special fall" and even if there is a way to do that... I think it'd still bring about the same problems we encountered when we made the original change to it.

 

[1048576]

IMO, I like character diversity. It's just fine that Ike's recovery is terrible. The way I usually recover is to double jump and then charage -> B during the jump so that I'm falling towards the stage as I'm charging it. Then I can mix up whether to go for the ledge or the center of the stage. If I opt for the latter, I'll get hit again, but Ike's weight should allow me to recover to the stage with just my double jump the second time around.

Aether is pretty garbage as a recovery tactic except against characters that lack range, IMO.

 

[Rayku]

Ike's recovery makes him vs. Metaknight (or anyone with more than one jump), IMO, a 9:1 matchup.

His recovery is atrocious.

Oh, and the Dedede swallow glitch on Quick Draw still works in Brawl+, so...yeah.

 

[PeppyWil]

The main issue with making the whole move of Quick Draw have no special fall is that he could chase you offstage with it and finish you off with a Fair or a Dair... something both Pikachu and Luigi can't do with their Side Bs.

So what? Let him do it. Other characters have been buffed like crazy in comparison to Ike, who still has bullcrap for recovery to the point where he's terrible against everyone who can gimp worth a ****. Give us a chance, eh?

 

[ThatGuy]

What if Ike got his double jump back after connecting with a forward B? Would that be considered imbalanced?

 

[Revven]

What if Ike got his double jump back after connecting with a forward B? Would that be considered imbalanced?

When he connects with his Side B right now he has no fall special... so you can already Up B or Side B again as it is. It wouldn't be broken, but, right now his recovery super gimptasticness has already been fixed. :x

 

[PKNintendo]

When he connects with his Side B right now he has no fall special... so you can already Up B or Side B again as it is. It wouldn't be broken, but, right now his recovery super gimptasticness has already been fixed. :x

Woah totally didn't know that.
Awesome.