Ike Boards General/Q&A Thread

[Ussi]

Upload the whole thing, i want to get it critiqued now

(or just upload the QD part if you don't have epic music)

 

[san.]

I have been testing it.

 

[Ussi]

I found an old replay of me vs San where he walk off dair'd me on jungle japes, epic **** that made me go wtf watching the replay xD

 

[-RedX-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajbq-DgZP-o
>_>

 

[Ussi]

Well that works, but my QD is at a higher height and and still ACs o_O

I QD into the BF platform and AC it

 

[Nysyarc]

Yah I dunno... I'm looking at the times when he QDs at half short-hop height and it doesn't look like auto-canceling to me. There are a few times when it seems like less than 13 frames but again, when you're talking about 1/6th of a second and the velocity that Ike is moving at, it's really hard to tell. All I know is I didn't see one landing in there that looked like an auto-cancel.

If someone can show a frame-by-frame of Ike's QD landing and then Ike throwing up a shield after just 1 frame, I will believe it. Otherwise, I'm skeptical.

 

[-RedX-]

Well, when I put the word auto cancel in quotes in my post up there, I just meant there's one that's less than 13 frames. I don't believe there's a true AC for QD. lol

 

[Ussi]

Sharkie, do FF nair then buffer a jab, then do "AC" QD and buffer a jab, "AC" QD is way more fluid

however there IS lag, I did FF to the ground to jab and SH bair to jab and that came out way faster

 

[san.]

Fine, I'll be uploading a vid tonight.

 

[Nysyarc]

Lol, I'm adamant in this. I won't believe it can have less than 13 frames of landing lag until there's clearly visible proof. Viewing it in real-time isn't a good way to judge it, so really frame-by-frame (like how Kirk did his hitbox visuals) is the only way to go.

Nair can seem like it has less than 13 frames of landing lag sometimes, but it never does (unless you auto-cancel it of course).

 

[Ussi]

Nair has 9 frames of landing lag first of all..

how do you debug mode?

 

[Nysyarc]

Nair has 9 frames of landing lag first of all..

Nair

Animation Demo [Click]

Hit on: 15-32
IASA (Air): 76
IASA (Landing): 13
Auto-cancel: 1-7, 67-75

Unfortunately the animation demo link for Nair is broken, but I was curious about that myself and so I counted the frames in his animation demo when he first posted it, and sure enough there were 13 between when Ike landed and when his shield went up.

 

[Ussi]

I looked down and notice it was -9 advantage on shield.. whoops

 

[-RedX-]

I think the least amount of frames QD landing can have is around 2-4, like regular landing.
But I can't test/have evidence. lol
San, do you want the debug pause+frame advance code?

EDIT:

Debug Pause
80000000 805B8A08
0402E5AC 8819000B
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 EFFF1000
86410000 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 00FF0000
12000002 00000001
E2000001 00000000
4A000000 804DE470
38000000 FFEF0010
4A000000 805B8A08
3A000002 FF000000
12000002 00000100
E2000002 00000000

Frame Advance
041E6CD8 4BE1C128
041E6D1C 4BE1C114
06002E00 00000068
9421FF80 BC410008
7CE4402E 7CE738F8
7CE73039 3864FFC0
7CE3412E 7CC4412E
B8410008 38210080
60000000 481E3EB0
9421FF80 BC410008
7C03202E 3DC01000
7DCE70F8 7C007039
740E0408 3DE00408
7C0E7800 40820008
64001000 B8410008
38210080 481E3EBC

Press Start to Debug pause, Z button is frame advance(hopefully -.-).
Start+X is regular pause button.

 

[Nysyarc]

@Ussi, ah okay, lol. As for debug mode, maybe it can be gotten through Homebrew? You'd have to ask Light cause I think he said he has it, or go to the Smash Workshop.

Edit: Or ask RedX apparently, lol.

 

[Ussi]

I found the code on my own, i'm adding it to my SD card now

 

[Nysyarc]

Be sure to test QD's landing lag at different heights from the ground, and link me if you upload any vids. I should be awake for awhile yet if you plan on doing it tonight, otherwise I'll check back tomorrow.

 

[theeboredone]

I just read through all this crap, and will be pissed if Ussi's "auto cancel" is just some one time game bug/glitch/accident.

 

[Nysyarc]

That's why I'm so adamant that we should test it frame-by-frame, to make sure it's legit. At this point I'm not even inclined to believe it can have less than 13 frames of landing lag. Partly because I don't like to think Kirk would have overlooked QD having significantly less landing lag if used at a certain height when he did up his data.

 

[-RedX-]

It isn't. lol
I've been testing it myself(without debug, I'm lazy) and I know the exact height when to release QD after a SH to have the least amount of lag. (Hopefully it's around 2-4 frames, can't be 13 frames).

EDIT: http://allisbrawl.com/ladder/player.aspx?id=57112
;O

 

[theeboredone]

Lol at Zhao's comment.

 

[Nysyarc]

Bored every time I glance at or scroll quickly past your avatar I think it's Dugtrio. And then even though I know it's not, I always scroll back and do a double take.

 

[Ussi]

HALF SH:

2 frames of landing lag from my testing, had shield come up on frame 3 on landing

JUST ABOVE THE GROUND:

8 frames of landing lag, 9th frame shield comes up

 

[theeboredone]

By no means do I think of Dugtrio when I look at my avatar lol...but I've been meaning to change it out again for an awesome Goku in Kaio-Ken state...haven't found one yet.

 

[Nysyarc]

Holy crap three posts in the same minute.

Lol, Zhao <3s me.

And 3 frames? Not saying I don't trust you but I'd still like to see a vid if possible.

 

[Ussi]

I wish i had my dazzle, really badly, and its 2 frames. Edited the post with just above the ground, i'm gonna do some more testing

 

[theeboredone]

So what's the exact height we should use QD to get this 3 frames?

 

[Nysyarc]

2 frames? Okay now do a frame by frame for Bair auto-canceled and see if it's 1 or 2 frames after touching the ground. I was pretty sure AC was 1 frame but I could be wrong and it's hard to tell in Kirk's hitbox visual of Bair, since Ike's feet are partially cut off.

If Bair's AC is 2 frames, that means we can officially use the term auto-cancel for a QD at that height.

 

[-RedX-]

lol I was right without frame testing. 8D
@Bored, the height is about half of a SH, and you can't be too close to the ground or too high above it.
Hard to explain without visuals. Where is San with that vid? :[

 

[Ussi]

bair's is 2 frames as well

bored, i'd take a snapshot but debug pause removes normal pause meaning no snapshots

Best thing to say is JUST as you start falling from your SH

 

[san.]

I'm uploading just a regular vid right now. Should be up in 15 minutes or so. I can try to implement that code this Thursday or Friday. Thanks, Red-X!

2 frames sounds like what it takes for a regular landing, maybe even less! Guess it does lol.

 

[-RedX-]

Ussi, try Start+X.

 

[theeboredone]

Assuming this is true...wonder how hard it can be to make it practical in matches. Definitely don't see it being used on a consistent basis. Granted, only time I use QD is when I send the opponent flying, and I do a short hop or regular QD to get to them quick and give the illusion of applying pressure.

 

[Nysyarc]

Well, awesome, I was wrong then (probably the only time you'll see 'awesome' in the same sentence as 'I was wrong'). We can officially say that QD can be auto-canceled. And it happens at about half short-hop height?

What you should do is see if you can pinpoint the earliest and latest frames in QD's animation for which it will auto-cancel, and let me know so I can edit that information into Kirk's data thread. For example, try it at a height where you'll land on the 54th frame of the animation (for example, may not be a relevant figure), and if it auto-cancels, then try a height where you'll land on the 55th frame and so on, until you've found the full range of frames at which it auto-cancels.

Obviously you don't have to do that because I imagine it would be tedious, but I would really appreciate it.

 

[Ussi]

If you do it like 2-3 frames after the ideal height there is a 3 frame landing o_O, i'd say there is a good 4-5 frames to release QD right

There is a 1 frame landing at one frame

 

[Nysyarc]

Test it from the peak of a short-hop, and then from a height that would obviously allow time for helpless frames to start, like the peak of a full-hop. I want to know if Kirk's figures of 13 and 31 frames were accurate at all, lol.

 

[-RedX-]

Completely off topic but I'm in love with this texture since I was kinda waiting for it to be made correctly. lol
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=13302

Doesn't desync wifi/replays.

 

[Ussi]

Alright sharkie, But just as a footnote: Ike's head must fully be under the BF platform to AC. If its touching, then you get 11 frames landing lag, gonna start doing the Peak to near ground now for Sharkie

 

[san.]

@ Red-X: I love it. I will use it to replace my crappy Ichigo texture.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh well if you get 13 frames of landing lag above the AC area than that answers one of them. Just test after helpless frames and see if you get 31 frames.

And you're sure the other figures were:

1/2 short-hop height = Auto Cancel (2 frames)
Slightly lower = 3 frames
Close to the ground = 8 frames