Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[Ussi]

I think he meant spot dodge dsmash, but again ROB's dsmash is DIable

 

[XACE-K]

lulz at Optimus R.O.B. The MK and Snake pics are awesome too. Anyway,

-R.O.B can WoP you with his f-air.

-His projectiles are a pain. Even the weak laser can mess up Ike's recovery. The R.O.Bs I played usually make thier laser go at an angle rather than straight forward. Gyro is one of the strongest projectiles and can kill you. If you don't get hit by it, grab it and throw it at him.

-Even though it's unlikely, if a R.O.B messes up when recovering, he's an easy target to spike.

-CP stages with platforms. R.O.B seems to suck on those stages from the R.O.Bs I've played.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Definately ROB's favor at probably 65/35 or 70/30.

 

[Kinzer]

Optimus Prime really doesn't have a paltform game other than Usmash I suppose, that Smash can kill quite early if I recall. At least it's only good for opponents directly above it, I don't think it would hit otherwise. So yeah any stage with platforms like BF is nice.

 

[Wyvern-x]

Beware of glide-tossing and n-air.

I was playing PoR yesterday and Ike said "Surrender or else you'll receive no mercy from us" or something along those lines. I guess thats where "You'll get no sympathy from me" comes from.

 

[TeeVee]

lol at people saying he can't airdodge while using up b....

Any half-way decent rob is gonna start the up b, then fair or nair instantly ; this allows rob to use his robo burner for a few seconds and still be able to attack/airdodge...


An Ike will not be able to edge guard a good rob...

 

[DRaGZ]

Optimus Prime really doesn't have a paltform game other than Usmash I suppose, that Smash can kill quite early if I recall. At least it's only good for opponents directly above it, I don't think it would hit otherwise. So yeah any stage with platforms like BF is nice.

Lol. Tilts? U-air? B-air? R.O.B.'s platform options are very very nice.

 

[Ussi]

lol at people saying he can't airdodge while using up b....

Any half-way decent rob is gonna start the up b, then fair or nair instantly ; this allows rob to use his robo burner for a few seconds and still be able to attack/airdodge...


An Ike will not be able to edge guard a good rob...

have you read what i said?

Ike can outrange ROB while he attacks making it pointless. You'll have to use up B to get close to the ledge, if you use bair to advanace, Ike can hit you out of it with his huge range. If you attack to get out of Up B then we'll hit you out of it after you attack.

 

[TeeVee]

We might be talking about different things because if you are honestly getting off the ledge against rob you WILL lose a stock.

 

[Nintendevil]

Stay centered in the stage. Ike is too easy to gimp. Don't roll behind one, because Dsmash is just too fast. The best option would be to space like crazy, play it safe, but don't let them get away to spam. Shield is your friend.

have you read what i said?

Ike can outrange ROB while he attacks making it pointless. You'll have to use up B to get close to the ledge, if you use bair to advanace, Ike can hit you out of it with his huge range. If you attack to get out of Up B then we'll hit you out of it after you attack.

1. Nobody is going to use ROB's bair to recover right in front of someone.

2. attacking out of Up B doesn't mean he has to use forward. he still gets a bit of hit burner after an aerial, so the may rise while airdodging, which is where edgeguarding gets tricky.

Gyro is one of the strongest projectiles and can kill you. If you don't get hit by it, grab it and throw it at him.

No, and no. If you see it coming, airdodge to grab it. The best thing here would be to hold on to it (and you can do something to use A attacks and hold onto items, can't remember how) or throw it up, because it gets a lot of hangtime there and ROB can't use it. While ROB can **** people on platforms pretty well, it hurts him more than it helps him.

dsmash is DI able just like pikachu's. Laser and gyro may limit but need charging so we aren't just gonna wait for you to let them charge now. without a full laser, you cant gimp Ike too effectively.

1. DI'ing Dsmash leads to another Dsmash at low %

2. Ever heard of Fair?

Ike has a bad recovery. If you push him out far enough, Side B is useless, and you can't DI enough to use up B.

 

[Nintendevil]

Edit: how does I delete messages

 

[XACE-K]

No, and no. If you see it coming, airdodge to grab it. The best thing here would be to hold on to it (and you can do something to use A attacks and hold onto items, can't remember how) or throw it up, because it gets a lot of hangtime there and ROB can't use it. While ROB can **** people on platforms pretty well, it hurts him more than it helps him.

Oh, my mistake. You can't delete posts btw.

 

[Kinzer]

Lol. Tilts? U-air? B-air? R.O.B.'s platform options are very very nice.

Oh, my mistake, I haven't really played a R.O.B. in forever so I won't recall everything.

Altough isn't a Bair too laggy to really be of any use, I would think an Ike could see this coming and prepare something in the meantime.

 

[Ussi]

~_~ I hate discussions, any ROB's in NJ/NY that wanna play me in person?

 

[Nitrix]

Ike's F-Air is a little annoying but he can't do anything against ROB's wall of projectiles, and ROB can edgeguard him to death.

 

[Ussi]

please tell me there is a ROB in NJ ~_~........

 

[TeeVee]

im in ct...

 

[Ussi]

TeeVee

1. Awesome avatar

2. Know any ROBs in your forums that can rep ROB in South NJ(North is too far for one person) to fight me?

 

[YagamiLight]

On yet another side note, check the very bottom of the original post for an Ike analysis. For some reason, I don't think the SBR Ike analysis is going to be quite that detailed.

 

[Kinzer]

Light, the write-up for Ike could make any emotional person cry, it's just that beautiful.

The only thing I see wrong with it is that you made a typo on the paragraph describing Quickdraw, instead of jab you say "job." Other than that, better words could not have been said for the General! (I'm sure you'll fix that typo though.)

 

[HeroMystic]

It's a good analysis (although I felt weird that you put it as so that we're acting as if we're about to fight against him), but I'd like to add more. If you want, I can PM you my own (although shorter) analysis of him.

 

[YagamiLight]

Light, the write-up for Ike could make any emotional person cry, it's just that beautiful.

The only thing I see wrong with it is that you made a typo on the paragraph describing Quickdraw, instead of jab you say "job." Other than that, better words could not have been said for the General! (I'm sure you'll fix that typo though.)

Quick Draw -> Get a Job is a true combo.

I have no idea how I managed to hit the "o" button instead "a", especially considering they are a keyboard apart. All fixed.

EDIT:

It's a good analysis (although I felt weird that you put it as so that we're acting as if we're about to fight against him), but I'd like to add more. If you want, I can PM you my own (although shorter) analysis of him.

I was doing it more for the benefit of everyone, including those who have no Ike experience, so I decided to go with that point of view. That said, feel free to PM me your Ike analysis and I will try to edit in any points you have that I lack.

 

[•Col•]

Quick Draw -> Get a Job is a true combo.

1. Quickdraw
2. Job
3. ??????
4. PROFIT!!!!

=D

 

[metroid1117]

We might be talking about different things because if you are honestly getting off the ledge against rob you WILL lose a stock.

Not if you come from above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOxkTpaayw

For anyone that didn't read my post (I really hope my [infamous] walls of text won't be ignored)...

Disclaimer: I use video examples of myself not to show that I'm good, but because they were the easiest examples to find and reference. Plus, I like Ike-ROB battles.

I personally don't think Ike-ROB is that bad; it's not advantageous for Ike, but by no means is it unwinnable. The main things that turn the tide for ROB are his excellent projectiles; the laser can bounce off surfaces and is very fast, while the gyro can be used to halt approaches if shot so that it lands short of you, rather than right at your face where you can shield it. This forces you to approach ROB, but approaching projectile spammers is nothing new so you should be quite adept at it by now. At close range, however, he is quite dangerous on the ground; his FTilt and DTilt are both fast and FTilt has very long range while DTilt can trip you. DSmash comes out extremely fast and sets up for UAir juggles; however, you can simply hold "up" to get out of it (you might be able to BAir before you hit the ground after you get out, I'm not 100% sure). DThrow does the same; watch out for that as well. (Then again, you should be spacing your FAirs and abusing NAir -> jabs well enough that getting grabbed shouldn't be too big of an issue.)

ROB, in addition to his great ground game, has very good aerials as well. UAir is a pain in the butt, having a pretty large hitbox and juggles very well; NAir has huge range and good killing potential (but then again, a lot of ROBs use this at low %s so you probably won't die from this); BAir stays out for a deceptively long time, gives him a horizontal boost, and can kill; FAir can be used to gimp; and DAir can spike and stall his fall. ROBs will definitely be going out to either FAir WoP (Wall of Pain) you off the stage or flat-out kill you with BAir; watch out for either option. Thankfully, Aether protects Ike from being spiked.

More thankfully, however, is Ike's massive range on his FAir and ROB's size. FAir shuts out ROB. Simple as that. It beats out his NAir and FAir, along with his jabs. When you're close, jabs work incredibly well because of ROB's size, as well as NAir; you'll be NAir'ing -> grabs a lot just because of ROB's weight. Short-hopped BAirs will always hit ROB, and you can even fall on top of ROB with an UAir to go for a shield-stab (see 2:37). Dash attack works wonders, the huge step really lets you get under ROB's guard and may set up for edgeguards.

Ike, in turn, can do some nasty things to ROB when he's coming back to the stage. As Ussi said, is really easy to spike, especially if you set your C-stick to "Attack" so that you don't fastfall whenever you try going out to spike him. Going out to spike him (see 00:32), walk-off DAir'ing him, or edgehop spiking him are all viable options to screw him over. The best part about ROB's up+B, however, is that he can't airdodge during this. That means you can also use reverse Aetherspikes to get him (see 5:05; I screw up the DAir, but you get the idea) if he tries to go over you.

The bottom line / tl;dr version: get in past the projectiles (hardest part), rack up damage (easiest part), then get him off-stage and screw him over before he can do the same to you (easier part).

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*sigh* Why does everyone think it's impossible for Ike to gimp their character? Seriously. Every other character mainer (with the exception of Link mainers and Zelda mainers) that has come to this topic for their character discussion basically says "lulz, u r Ike, u can't gimp b/c u r TOO SLOOOOOOOW!!! lulz u wil b killed with r l33t character n008s" when it comes to gimping them, and when it comes to gimping us, they all (except Link and Zelda mainers thank goodness) go "lulz, i just jump infront of u're QD lulz, ike is da easiest character to gimp lulz n008s pic a real character like MK"

No, Ike does not have the best gimping game, but he is more then able to gimp people. Yes, Ike falls fast, but most people think we don't know what an "air dodge" is. Is that all of their prides get pricked because the character online kids gravitate towards can *gasp* actually kill them off stage? Mind boggling as it is: not all Ike mainers are little kids (or Azen, though we wish we were at times, but who doesn't?). We do (particularly the tournament goers), you know, have a clue what we're talking about.

No, it's just not you ROB mainers here. It's a combination of a) a bad day b) my bad temper c) most mainers of higher tiered characters thinking anyone in the lower half of Mid Tier or lower is a crappy character d) That they also often think only noobs main Ike (besides Azen). But seriously: in general, enough with the "if you try to gimp you, you WILL loose a stock". No actually, if the Ike player knows what he's doing (which, of course, goes for all players or all characters), you will probably be spiked. Ike has just as much of a chance as anyone with a Dair spike of spiking you during recovery. Because he has a noob reputations doesn't suddenly make his spike any easier to dodge then the others. Just like the others, it will either kill you, or force you to react/airdodge.

Now, excuse me, I'm off to take a chill pill.......

 

[Kinzer]

Let the noobs be noobs N.freak, it only makes it all the more satisfying when you get their reaction when you beat them with Ike. I've gotten so used to the Ike-bashers that this is just normal...

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Kinda screws over our matchup topic however. It's hard to get good info with everyone coming into the topic going "lulz, 8-2 our character, *insert generic, stupid Ike is easy to kill by blocking QD argument here*


And I hate stupidity, my own included.

Make that especially my own, but point still stands, I also hate other people's stupidity.


....


.....I really need that chill pill today don't I? *goes off to take chill pill along with cooling off by watching new Mythbusters*

 

[Kinzer]

well, look at it this way, with every board there are idiots, but among the few are the smart ones, we should know this being the Ike boards for crying out loud.

Anyway I'm sure that if I went back I can find a select few who actually made some good points on R.O.B., and maybe somebody out there has yet to make a post and will eventually.

But yeah Ike is seriously underrated, it doesn't help that he's second from bottom of Mid-tier, which I still don't believe in.

 

[XACE-K]

Kinda screws over our matchup topic however. It's hard to get good info with everyone coming into the topic going "lulz, 8-2 our character, *insert generic, stupid Ike is easy to kill by blocking QD argument here

Agreed. Those people need to get beat hard by a good Ike and realize he isn't a crappy character. Ike isn't amazing but he doesn't flat out suck either. How about we invade other boards an teach them a lesson about Ike?

Also nice analysis on Ike, Light.

 

[Ussi]

Nidtendofreak you have my 100% sympathy cause I shall fight for you now!





In all seriousness I have the exact same feelings as you do. BUT!!!!! At tournaments people are slightly different and more accepting to Ike. Its only Online people really underrate Ike.



And XACE-K I know the prefect topic title!! [Insert Character] is trash! (vs Ike)

 

[XACE-K]

And XACE-K I know the prefect topic title!! [Insert Character] is trash! (vs Ike)

That's perfect!! Let's pick the Yoshi boards first. It might give me a good laugh.

 

[Ussi]

They give Ike SOME credit, but we all know Ike has the advantage. Oh well, let the Yoshi's dream on. As it stands I still beat PRiDE so far and so has Ryko, but PRiDE did "quit" for a month before coming back. But I beat PRiDE before he "quit"

 

[XACE-K]

They give Ike SOME credit, but we all know Ike has the advantage. Oh well, let the Yoshi's dream on. As it stands I still beat PRiDE so far and so has Ryko, but PRiDE did "quit" for a month before coming back. But I beat PRiDE before he "quit"

Well did PRiDE get better after he "quit"? I saw vids of him and his oshi is the best one I've seen but don't know if if was before or after his break.

How about the MK boards just for the lulz.

 

[Ussi]

oh hell no, i hate fighting MKs online. I need precise timing... heck i need precise timing for all my matches >____> Otherwise i need to spam fsmash to win , (lulz for lag)

Plus my connection SUCKS balls seriously. PRiDE lost to Ryko oct 4th at the tourney in a friendly.

 

[YagamiLight]

I'd love to try and finish up R.O.B. today, what with metroid's awesome post and everyone else's. But as it stands, I'm rather tired to do 3 articles in 2 days, even if one is a fairly simple Ike analysis. I'll see if I can get it done by tomorrow.

As for the whole view other people have on Ike, it's really nothing of massive importance. Anyone with even a slight degree of intelligence and Ike knowledge should be able to respect him as a character. What frightens me, however, is that pretty much every match-up chart lists Ike at a gigantic disadvantage. I'm sure it's from a lack of playing Ikes, but...it's still mildly scary.

I am also going through the topic and putting up even more cool pictures.

 

[Ussi]

know what, lets keep them dreaming their big advantages, thats makes us look even more skilled if we win with even smaller numbers ROFL.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Meh, the problem is that if SBR feels the same way about Ike when they make the match-up chart (or who ever makes the match-up chart) feels the same way, it'll be a snowball effect in our match-ups with anyone above us, and half of the people below us. I mean, the MK boards still have QD as our "main means of recovery" >_> And the Ganon boards, IIRC, think their Ike match-up is almost even. XD It was a while ago I saw the topic though.

However, between a pepsi one, and a blind guy driving on mythbusters, I'm back to normal. XD

Anyways, for stages, I think Corelia(sp?) would be the best CP. Why? It basically shuts down ROB's projectile advantage with the large slants and level differences, and his recovery means squat with very little gap area between blast zone and the ship. As long as you don't screw up on the top of the fin for an easy KO. For neutrals........I say go for BF. No stage is really going to give you an advantage, and FD or SV would give you a disadvantage.

 

[Kinzer]

You just do what you're doing right now Light; whatever it is, it's great

And yeah, Ike is a very balanced character if I do say so myself, sure he has some disadvantages, none of them will ever be more difficult than 75-25 when pushing it to the limits(this is good). And just for my knowledge, who does Ike have the best advantage over?

So yeah, good to hear that you have enough data to give us a detailed paragraph on R.O.B.. Any ideas on who we're going to do next?

Edit: Oh right, it would definitely be strongly recommanded to pick stages with small blastzones, the way if Ike gets knocked off he will have better chances of recovery, not to mention it will be much easier to gimp/punish/kill R.O.B. with the smaller blastzones. Corneria/Battlefield for the win.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

IMO, Ike has the best advantage over Ganondorf. Same problems, but Ike has range, while Ganon has slightly better tech options with Flame Choke.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh Ganandorf is a nightmare if he is good at tech chasing...but let's talk about him when we get to him eh?