Ignore.

[Smash G 0 D]

Surprisingly, no. The chance just hasn't come up.

And it's partly because Olimar is my least favorite matchup. With any of my characters. xD

 

[CLove]

be prepared to DI the dsmash at around 60% against Olimar...I have lost a heartbreaker in this matchup because I didn't think I would need to DI at 60%.....

 

[professor mgw]

Olimar's up-smash = Godly

 

[IsmaR]

They don't just get them off you with U-tilt, they kill most of them, save for purple obviously. They even stop/kill some in mid-move in some cases. One of these days I'll look back on all my info/stuff/replays and see the full extent of U-tilt's godliness in this match up, as well as anything else I could offer. Olimar isn't an easy match-up, but it isn't her worst(her being Samus, not Rishi's/whoever sucks against Olimar). It's one of my best, more than Peach/Fox/Dedede/whoever else Samus isn't supposed to be good against.

U-smash is overrated, all about D-tilt yo.

 

[NO-IDea]

Izzy, come to MD/VA. I want to learn how you play Olimars.

 

[IsmaR]

I'm going for about a month come June, but I might not go because I have the option to stay/find a job/do school related stuff. But if I do go, I'll most likely stay longer and there is an increasingly better chance that I'm going to move there. Homesick/race/driving johns/;_;

 

[Muz]

It seems that it gets Pikmin off faster. I won't believe it until you show me proof because otherwise I could just rotate the sticks really fast.

And if you just mash buttons during an Utilt/Bomb animation you'll probably end up buffering some other move, lol.

Ok here is your proof that button mashing helps remove pikmin faster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM7wbCg9tX0

I did a little bit more research about latched pikmin, and here are some gems I found from the olimar boards:

-------------------------
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224450
Pikmin Toss (>B)
Hits on: 9
Ends on: 25
-Pikmin stays latched for 260 frames after latched, decreasing by one frame for each percentage of damage on the opponent, with a minimum of 60 frames. The pikmin deals a latch hit every 30 frames.
-------------------------

AND

---------------
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170696
Samus
Latch areas: Front Leg, Back Leg, Canon Arm, Non-Canon Arm, Back, Head

If latch to ______ the attack will remove the pikmin.

Front Leg: Jab, F Tilt, Up Tilt, Up B, D Smash, Nair, Dair, Uair,
Back Leg: Jab, F Tilt, Up Tilt, Up B, F Smash, D Smash, Nair, Dair, Bair, Uair, Fair,
Canon Arm: Jab, F Tilt, Up Tilt, Up B, F Smash, D Smash, Up Smash, Nair, Dair, Uair, Fair,
Non-Canon: Jab, F Tilt, Up Tilt, Up B, D Smash, Nair, Dair, Bair, Uair,
Back: Jab, F Tilt, Up Tilt, Up B, D Smash, Nair, Uair, Fair,
Head: Jab, Up Tilt, Up B, F Smash, D Smash, Up Smash, Fair,
------------------

Basically, latching pikmin has 2 types of decay
1)The regular move decay where each time you hit with a move that move does less damage (last 10 moves recorded). So 2nd pikmin that is thrown will do LESS DAMAGE PER HIT
2)The higher damage the person who has pikmin attached to him is at, the LESS TIME THE PIKMIN WILL STAY ON HIM.

The areas where a pikmin can attach to is also interesting to note, but I believe that there are some errors in what moves can get rid of them. For example, he grouped both jab1 and jab2 of the combo into just "jab" and I know that jab1 doesn't always hit a latched on pikmin. Also I believe that a rising or a falling upair can hit different latch areas (having a hitbubble vid would definitely help here). Oh and its missing up and downangled f-tilt and f-smash, and dash attack, and chargeshot

About utilt: although it can hit at all the areas, NOID makes a good point that its laggy enough that olimar can easily throw another pikmin at you, making that strategy pointless unless theres a whole lot of pikmin on you already. But I guess with good timing you can hit any incoming pikmin with the same uptilt, but that still doesn't put you at any frame advantage.

So getting rid of them in the air may be the best option. Nair will get rid off all pikmin except those on your head, at which point you should be able to fair to get it off (provided it is not a red pikmin). Interestingly enough upair does not hit the pikmins on your head (i guess this makes sense though since you turn upside down) So if you are being bombarded with pikmin, my suggestion would be to do an nair, and while the nair animation is still going mash a few buttons.

 

[DelxDoom]

If you do use utilt to get pikmin off you make sure you're at least threatening olimar with it o______o

 

[professor mgw]

If you do use utilt to get pikmin off you make sure you're at least threatening olimar with it o______o

Um is this gonna be countinued or does the samus boards need a new match-up discussion?

 

[Xyro77]

Its gonna be continued when people write articles. Since impretty much the ONLY one who goes to events, it seems IM the only one who will write article.

 

[KillerJawz]

Its gonna be continued when people write articles. Since impretty much the ONLY one who goes to events, it seems IM the only one who will write article.

*Gets the shotgun ready*. I have written plenty of articles, the Bowser one which you have not added to the OP. I also attend events regularly.

Im more then happy to do writeups for Pikachu, Diddy Kong and a duel writeup for Zelda. Shall I get started on one of them?

 

[Throwback]

I also go to events regularly but I place badly so I hadn't considered doing write-ups. I'm happy to contribute for DK, snake, mario, luigi and link. I would also like to contribute to an MK write-up but I thought you should do the main write-up for that MU xyro.

 

[professor mgw]

~I think I can contribute to to write-ups for peach, ike, marth, or ness, but I'd like to go to another event before I do.

 

[IsmaR]

Going to X number of events shouldn't be a requirement to write an article. And being an elitist sure as hell won't get these articles done any better or faster.

 

[professor mgw]

Going to X number of events shouldn't be a requirement to write an article. And being an elitist sure as hell won't get these articles done any better or faster.

~I just thought you guys would want to know if I had a good amount of expericence well enough to report on the characters. Well I do think I know the samz vs ike and samz vs marth MU pretty well.

 

[LanceStern]

Oh I go to events, I just get beat for it.

I don't have time to wwrite matchup articles, just thoughts and junk like that.

 

[Throwback]

Have we already talked about the TL matchup?

He's small, he's fast, is disjointed, has great aerial mobility and kills much earlier than us. Despite all that I feel this MU is winnable if you play it correctly.

A lot of his moves are laggy enough to punish, and CS goes through his projectiles except bombs. Ftilt outranges a lot of things, and his arrows are quite slow in the air which makes them pretty easy to avoid. In general I find his spam < Link's spam, but his close combat is better.

The main thing in Samus' favor for me is that at range, samus wins, and up close TL is punishable. Of course if you eat a bair chain you're going to be in big trouble, so it's really about staying safe (ie punish don't attack) when TL is close, then abusing CS/zair to get % lead when he's at range. If TL like's to air-dodge-zair, a partially charged shot will put that little game decidedly in your favour.

Mistakes in this MU cost samus dearly, I feel it's more about not doing anything stupid than it is getting great reads.

 

[KillerJawz]

We gave some brief info on it, but we didn't get other members to come from other boards, that why im going to start this up now.

Im inviting the Zelda boards to come and discuss this with us, since nobody else will bother <.<. Don't try and get defensive, you guys know **** well its true.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Last time i fought a Samus Zair is a pain to go through. D:

i think the fight is somewhere between 60:40 Samus and even. Zelda can kill, Samus can't as well, but Samus lives long enough that it doesn't matter so much especially when Samus is camping all day.

Can Samus cancel Dins w/ Nair or something?

 

[GodAtHand]

The trick in this matchup is for Zelda to either A) Be at that perfect distance where she can use Din's to counter camp while dealing occasional damage (Very hard to stay there). or B) Get through the camp and zair and take the battle close range.

Doing either of them works but they aren't easy. Luckily with Samus' kill power you can have numerous tries per stock. I would say this match is close to 50-50 but I don't play great Samus mains that often.

 

[LanceStern]

I would put it around 50-50. I got some fun games in a low-tier tourney this past saturday.

Samuses camp her pretty nasty with zair and homing missiles. Naryu is easy to see coming and punish with zair and din's fire we can spotdodge and then... zair some more.

When Zelda gets in close it's a pretty cloes fist fight. But with Zelda's hard hitting and hard to di multihit smashes and aerials, it quickly falls in Zelda's favor. I like to hit and run and then poke more with zair.

Problem was getting the KO on Zelda. Fsmash honestly would be our best bet if you keep telegraphing dtilt. But when we have to get close she starts hitting upsmashes and bairs and that dreaded dtilt lock. Zelda KOs us much easier, we rack up damage a lot quicker. Pretty fun matchup.


Samuses NEVER want to be above Zelda. Her usmash is too good. Her utilt is too good. her uair is ridiculous at KOing.
Zeldas never really want to be far away from Samus. Midrange maybe she can dash attack or short hop nair her way in, but far away we will just zair until the cows come home. It only takes 30 of them (non sweetspotted0 to put you in Ko percentages

 

[KillerJawz]

@ Jiggly, yeah Samus's nair (when it comes out) cancels dins. I much prefer air dodging it though, I never get the timing right with her nair D:.

Can we UpB OoS all of Zelda's close range attacks? I hear it's pretty hard to do on her fsmash x.x.

 

[MrEh]

Samus' favor.

Just camp Zelda and run away. Zelda is ridiculously easy to camp. She's also light, which means that you can actually kill her at decent percents. (for Samus anyway)

 

[AzNfinesse]

@ Jiggly, yeah Samus's nair (when it comes out) cancels dins. I much prefer air dodging it though, I never get the timing right with her nair D:.

Can we UpB OoS all of Zelda's close range attacks? I hear it's pretty hard to do on her fsmash x.x.

ur better off just DI'ing out of it. Zelda can punish samus's UpB too easily with Usmash or Uair.

As for the MU, Samus can camp zelda too easily. Just spam missiles and Zair. There's very little Zelda can do about that. And if Zelda tries to din's you can punish with a charged plasma ball.

Watch for the Nayru's. There's a lot of lag at the end of it, and it's a great time for Samus to punish with a kill move.

Really, the only thing Samus needs to watch out for is a perfectly timed nayru's and the smashes.

 

[MrEh]

Zelda is slow. Really slow. (her movement speed is similar to Dedede's) Spamming projectiles and Zairing is difficult for Zelda to get through. She's forced to run at you slowly, or try to jump at you. Either way, projectiles and Zair are hard for her to get through.

 

[KillerJawz]

Okay so if I was to decipher this information into Xyro's format....


Chances of Winning:

LanceStern 50-50

KillerJawz 55-45 Samus' Favor

What does the opponent think? 55-45 - 60-40 Samus' favor

How does Samus win/do well?:

Samuses camp her pretty nasty with zair and homing missiles. Naryu is easy to see coming and punish with zair and din's fire we can spotdodge and then... zair some more.

As said by Lance, Samus camps Zelda's socks off. Zelda has a really hard time approaching like nearly every character in the game, Samus in no exception to this. A nice flury of zair and missles are more then enough to keep Zelda on her toes, while CONSTANTLY forcing her to get closer. She will attempt to approach by running towards us slowly, jumping in, airdodging, powershielding or when she gets a bit closer, nairing her way in. These options can all be shut down with good spacing with your zairs, and a multitude of missles.

Killing. Samus KOs Zelda earlier in this MU then she would in other MUs, simply because Zelda is so light, she will die to a fresh CS at around 120-130 with good DI, so be sure to keep this in mind. Dtilt, Fsmash and plenty of other moves do nicely here against Zelda, just don't be predictable.

Zelda's airgame is absolutly diabolical perhaps with the exception of nair. Her aerials must be sweetspotted or within a very small range gap to actually be a threat, so juggling Zelda is a REALLY good option here, so yeah, keep her in the air.

As for the MU, Samus can camp zelda too easily. Just spam missiles and Zair. There's very little Zelda can do about that. And if Zelda tries to din's you can punish with a charged plasma ball.

Watch for the Nayru's. There's a lot of lag at the end of it, and it's a great time for Samus to punish with a kill move.

What should Samus watch out for?:

When Zelda gets in close it's a pretty cloes fist fight. But with Zelda's hard hitting and hard to di multihit smashes and aerials, it quickly falls in Zelda's favor. I like to hit and run and then poke more with zair.

Problem was getting the KO on Zelda. Fsmash honestly would be our best bet if you keep telegraphing dtilt. But when we have to get close she starts hitting upsmashes and bairs and that dreaded dtilt lock. Zelda KOs us much easier, we rack up damage a lot quicker. Pretty fun matchup.


Samuses NEVER want to be above Zelda. Her usmash is too good. Her utilt is too good. her uair is ridiculous at KOing.

When a Zelda gets in, thats where the damage begins to rack up on your side. She has a very fast dsmash, which can end any sort of gtfo option you have it your not careful. She can follow up on her dtilts with stupidly good damage rackers such as f and d smash (this is guaranteed if you trip). One of the most overlooked things Zelda has in her arsenal is Fayore's Wind. This move will have two hitboxes, one when Zelda has the green spiral around her, and one when she reappears from the teleport. That second hit box can actually lead up to some really nasty things such as a SH fair/bair at mid percentages, remember that Fayore's can go 16 different ways, not just the usual 8. So reading this move will be difficult against a good Zelda. If you power shield it however, or simply shield it accordingly, you can punish the lag.

Also if a Zelda reflects your fully charged CS with Nayru's, don't expect to live if your past 85%.

What stages should Samus counterpick/ban?:

If a Samus has just lost a game to a Zelda, then you yourself need to look at what was troubling you, I imagine it would be her smashes, but thats just an example. Taking Zelda to Rainbow Cruise is a REALLY good bet, you can ANNIHLATE her there. Her air game is sub-par and must be sweetspotted to be effective (the sweetspots are on all her aerials except uair, which has a pretty small hitbox overall). We can camp her very easily here, and her approach options are diabolical so she be able to get past our zair and missles very easily. Overall, THIS is where you will be beating your Zelda players.

Jungle Japes is a really good option for us. If she goes in the water, it's pretty much an instant death thanks to her terribly predictable recovery. we can camp her all day and night here, and her utilt won't KO us as early because of the very high ceilings. We kill horizontally, so we won't struggle here as much as she does, losing three of her massive killers (utilt, usmash and uair).

We should look to ban somewhere where Zelda can approach with ease, Battlefield, although one of Samus's best stages, really shouldnt be chosen. Her Usmash can actually hit us under the bottom two platforms, its not a guaranteed hit, but it can be nasty. Utilt and uair will destroy us through those platforms and she actually has really good platform control with nair. Avoid this stage, the cons outweigh the pros here tbh.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Take Zelda anyone to Japes.

 

[KillerJawz]

Reasoning?

 

[MrEh]

Because Zelda sucks on Japes?


She gets into the water, she's dead. If she manages to jump out, the nature of her recovery will screw her over and she'll most likely miss the ledge. (spike coming)

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Pretty much. And Samus just ***** Japes anyways @_@

Camp right platform hard. Once you're in the middle, Uair and Fair and UpB get you out of anything, and if they decide to try to camp you on a platform, you can chase them on safely with an aerial or just missile and/or Zair.

As for Zelda... I mean, what can she do here? Camp and Din's Fire you? It really isn't that hard to get past. And her recovery is too predictable to be any good if she manages to get out of the water at all.

 

[KillerJawz]

What about stages that we need to look out for? I also believe that BF is a good stage for us against Zelda, she cant Usmash us through the platforms properly on here since it only skims and the final hit won't connect if your stood perfectly still.

 

[Xyro77]

Zelda on RC and japes=death. She CANNOT do ANYTHING

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Yay Xyro and I agree.

Battlefield isn't too bad, I guess. But the platforms can be crappy, meh.

 

[LanceStern]

I actually lost a low tier tourney cause her uair was ruthless on platforms. As well as upsmash.

It was really close, but those platforms did me some harm

 

[KillerJawz]

So BF is really a contest of who can control the platforms the best.

So we have RC and Japes for stages that we can just buttrape her on. BF is probably pretty decent for her. Any others?

 

[Mr9]

this thread seriously needs some major updating.

 

[KillerJawz]

^Agreed. Xyro, im sending you my Bowser writeup.

 

[ZeroL]

I wrote a article on DDD, who should I send this to ?

EDIT: I'll post it here anyway.

Chances of winning:
(DDD)70:30(Samus) - This is what I think.

How does Samus win/do well:
Samus needs to focus on 4 points in this MU or she won't stand a change.

1. Samus needs to abuse her Zair, DDD is a fat character so her Zair wil hit easily. Zair is also lagless so it's easy to abuse in this MU, having platforms on the stage will make it easier to Zair DDD. Zair to pivot grab works sometimes against unsucpecting DDD's. Waddle Dees outprioritise all of our projectiles and Zair is hindered by Waddle Dees. When you see a Gordo coming at you, just try to dodge it because Zairing it will results in 23% or getting killed. It's a better choice to go for Zair then Missiles because Zair comes out on frame 7 and Missiles come out on frame 12.

2. Don't get grabbed! This is the main move DDD will use versus Samus. If you get grabbed you will get about 40% each time. Using your Zair and Missiles to keep DDD away from you is your base defense in this MU. Double Missiles will be very usefull because almost no DDD will expect 2 Missiles coming at them after each other. Missile cancel to Zair will also work great. DDD also has a small step chaingrab on us that ISN'T banned so it's a must to know how to keep DDD away from you.

3. The ledge and platforms. Use these as your backup when you need to take control of the situation. DDD can't grab you on the edge, and his chaingrab is useless on platforms. An extra addition to the platforms is that in certain situations you can use a Jab > drop through platform > Nair/Bair/Uair. DDD will mostly not expect this which will results in a further combo or a kill.

4. Killing. DDD is a fat character who has great survival changes when receiving kill moves. Since Samus has limited kill options, you need to keep your kill moves fresh untill DDD has about 190%, this way there will be more changes that you will kill DDD. Gimping is a fair choice, but keep in mind that when you fail to gimp DDD you will most likely get killed. So only gimp when you are sure that you will hit the gimp.

What should Samus watch out for:
Samus needs to avoid 3 main things.

1. The grab, a grab will results in a chaingrab and that will deal about 40% each time. Remeber these informations are based on that the DDD infinite on Samus is banned, if it's not banned where you live there is one main rule: If you get grabbed it's game over for you. DDD also has a small step chaingrab on Samus, unless the DDD is a moron you will get about 60% from this small step chaingrab.
2. Bair walls, Bair walls are deadly versus Samus offstage because Samus doesn't have the moves to come back or avoid the Bair walls. Bair walls on stage are also a pain for Samus because only a well timed Zair can interrupt it. DDD's Bair goes through our Missiles.
3. Kill moves, DDD has allot of kill moves and Samus is kinda floaty so DDD can kill us early if we don't watch out. When we are at high percent use Zair to keep DDD away while racking damage, racking damage while keeping DDD away will become an advantage later on.

What stages should Samus counter pick/Ban:
Basicly Samus should CP stages where DDD can't use his chaingrab much, a great stage for Samus versus DDD is Rainbow Cruise (if that's allowed in your country). Otherwise you should pick Brinstar, the platforms and the possibillity to use an aerial through the stage and return safely to the edge is the main reason the stage is good in the Samus versus DDD MU. Norfair is also a good choice to CP because DDD doesn't have much chaingrab space and you can use the platforms and lava for some better options.

Samus should ban stages where DDD can use his chaingrab over and over and over again, like Castle Siege (the second part of CS is where DDD can chainggrab you to death. A good ban verus DDD is Halberd because DDD's upwards killing is fairly good since the blastzone of this stage is low and Samus' vertical momentum cancel is crap. Ban Yoshi's Island and Final Destination aswell. Yoshi's Shy Guys stops our Missiles, however DDD can't chaingrab us properly there and the Ghost makes gimping DDD very hard and the Ghost will ruin our stalling techniques.


Abusing the ledge is the ONLY way to fully beat DDD. Use some ledgehopped Fairs and Zairs, tether the edge and keep repeating this proces. After 3 times retethering the ledge you can't tether anymore, kick the DDD to the other side of the stage and jump on the stage and immediatly get back on the ledge!

 

[Xyro77]

bowser MU is being put up right now.
as for that DDD mu....lol i will put it up too.

do you guys know why its not been updated in a while? its cause i need YOUR input! if i did all the MUs people wouldnt take this thread serious cause it would be "xyro biased"

So find a match-up, even if its been done, and write an aricle. EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS!

 

[KillerJawz]

Im trying to get more contributions for the Zelda MU, we have a fair bit done so far

But I'd prefer to have more tbh.