If the timer runs out the player with more time spent in the air will lose.

[GimR]

They don't do this in japan. Only a few people are trying to implement it. There are multiple reasons this is a bad idea one being because it gives characters like Ice Climbers and Diddy a clear advantage over character's like Wario and MK becuase they HAVE to approach because they'll lose if the timer runs out

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Just ban Meta Knight.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Just ban Meta Knight.

Woah, we may be on to something here!

 

[Megavitamins]

But why directly target MK? Are you saying that MK's a huge problem in and of himself? Is his planking the source of his problematic reign? Is it so bad so as to consider it broken? If so, then why not just go pro-ban and ban him?

Because Meta is the only character that can efficiently plank. He has plenty of air time with his multiple jumps / specials, an amazing glide, and plenty of disjoints. No other character can successfully plank.

 

[Terragontoonlink]

...Pit and MetaKnight In Japan=Bottom Tier.
Ganon and Ike=Top Tier.

Fail.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So why don't you just ban Wario now? Like WTF kind of non sense is this?

 

[TheMike]

...Pit and MetaKnight In Japan=Bottom Tier.
Ganon and Ike=Top Tier.

Fail.

What are you saying? If this somehow is sarcasm, I didn't get it, lol. By the way, current Japanese Tier List:

S+: Metaknight
S: Snake
A: Falco, Pit, Marth, Fox, Wario, Diddy, King Dedede
B: Olimar, Game and Watch, Zelda/Shiek, Wolf, Zero Suit Samus, ROB
C: Ice Climbers, Toon Link, Kirby, Lucario, Pikachu
D: Donkey Kong, Peach, Ike, Lucas, Mario
E: Bowser, Pokemon Trainer, Link, Yoshi, Ness, Luigi
F: Ganon, Samus, Falcon, Sonic, Jigglypuff

And you probably haven't seen Masashi playing as Pit.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This rule would end MK's top tier reign.

Um, no. Look at MK's ground game for a moment and you will see why very, VERY quickly.
Dsmash: disjointed, frame 6 kill move.
Ftilt: IIRC frame 3 move, does about 13 damage, has a larger range than snake's ftilt.
Dtilt: Frame 3 move, can trip into a combo, far larger than snake's ftilt.

Because now you are no longer dealing with broken tactics, you are rebalancing and redesigning the game.

So? We can't ban the ****er, so let's handicap him. He's clearly overdominant and too good.

But why directly target MK? Are you saying that MK's a huge problem in and of himself?

Yes

Is his planking the source of his problematic reign?

No

Is it so bad so as to consider it broken? If so, then why not just go pro-ban and ban him?

It's enough. But we can't ban him because we can count ledgegrabs.

I mean, think about it... If MK's SO problematic you have to make lots of specific rules to keep him in play, don't you think that he's far too good compared to the other characters?

Duh...

Without all those rules, apparently he dominates too much, right? If he's THAT good, instead of making a couple of rules to make him play all awkward with the rest of the cast, why not just take him out of the game instead? And making the rules target him only pretty much mean "this character's far too good to play normally"... Essentially meaning he's broken.

OH REALLY

A lot of these people aren't taking into account a very important "clause" in this rule:

It only occurs when the match times out!

That being said, that is still very possible to happen w/ non-MK characters like Wario who needs a lot of defensive precautions in some MUs

This also hands a really nasty advantage to another character I'm sure people wouldn't be too happy losing out to due to time: ICs

This forces people to be more risky since nearly 90% of the time characters fighting ICs are hanging around in the air.

That and DDD.

Yeah, pretty much this. It doesn't hurt MK that much, it really hurts other aerial characters like TL, Jiggs, Wario, etc. (wario loses his dair camping and timing the opponent out as legit strategies in a particularly harsh example; jiggs sucks anyways but she can still WOP a little... this takes that from her) that don't have particularly good kill moves/like timing out.

****ty rule is ****ty.

 

[MDU]

Yeah this rule sucks. What some people fail to realise is that time out =/= someone stalling. Many matches are timed out just because both players are playing extremely safe and don't want to approach the opponent. With this stupid rule, you are basically saying that characters such as Toon Link and Jigglypuff have to approach regardless of their lead in stocks or percentage. DDD can simply stand in a corner and tank hits for all he cares, because under this new rule, his opponents ALWAYS HAVE TO APPROACH regardless of lead, which is obviously wrong.

 

[Thinkaman]

My name is Jigglypuff and I do not approve this message.

 

[Nosii]

This is pretty interesting. I agree with the overall idea though.

 

[IIIIRICK]

This rule is stupid, almost kills half the cast from how they are meant to play.

 

[Chuee]

This rule is stupid, almost kills half the cast from how they are meant to play.

So half of the cast is supposed to be played by aircamping and timing the opponent out?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

No, several characters use their good airgame. This rule would kill them.

 

[-LzR-]

Duh stocks are still considered when time runs out. You can't just stall your last stock and win with this rule. But his rule is still too stupid, it affects every match in some way, unlike LGL.

 

[IIIIRICK]

So half of the cast is supposed to be played by aircamping and timing the opponent out?

No, several characters use their good airgame. This rule would kill them.

yah, what dark horse said.

 

[Karcist]

Terrible idea... this screws so many characters over... Samus, Wario, Peach, Marth, Lucario, Jigglypuff, and the list goes on. Most of the above characters rely on air approaches to be played effectively while MK has great approaches on the ground as well (fast dash, great grab, quick f tilt, d tilt and d smash).

 

[napZzz]

ban mk and we wouldn't needed to deal with **** like this

imagine a world without mk....we wouldn't worry about time outs as much and a small rule like this lol. Cuz you know, wario's so broken and the only other one this could majorly apply to otherwise. Time outs dont really happen outside of matches with mk in them or wario...=/

 

[RESET Vao]

Poor Jigglypuff, if she's offensive, gets them to last stock 120% with 3 stocks 0% and gets timed out, she still loses.

 

[DarkISDA]

Ice climbers would love this rule.... I mean I like jumping around vs them ._.

 

[Tristan_win]

But why directly target MK? Are you saying that MK's a huge problem in and of himself? Is his planking the source of his problematic reign? Is it so bad so as to consider it broken? If so, then why not just go pro-ban and ban him?

I mean, think about it... If MK's SO problematic you have to make lots of specific rules to keep him in play, don't you think that he's far too good compared to the other characters? Without all those rules, apparently he dominates too much, right? If he's THAT good, instead of making a couple of rules to make him play all awkward with the rest of the cast, why not just take him out of the game instead? And making the rules target him only pretty much mean "this character's far too good to play normally"... Essentially meaning he's broken.

They're all legit question-paragraphs, so answer them if you find the time to.

Heh, epically late response


Yes as a individual I think meta knight is a huge problem because of his potential perfect planking game, and other superior traits. I love frame data and value it highly so when the planking date came out I was greatly effected by it. Before I learned it was possible and within reason for meta knight to go unpunished on the ledge I always had hope that it wasn't my opponent messing up occasionally but me when I approach and attempt to punish. When you can't blame yourself for failure where do you turn? Your only option is the game. The smash community to some level has recognize this and thus have made rules to fix problems over the years to make smash competitive. Meta knight is one of these problems and has to get fix but since action wasn't taken immediately to fix this potential problem we now have to take it slowly.

Let's pretend for a second, let's say the SBR made a rule tomorrow to suddenly ban meta knight. The effects of that decision would be numerous and greatly mix, some players would quit competitive smash while other might return but there's really no way of knowing if the results would be positive in the long run. Because of this one of the best course of actions is not removing meta knight but directly limiting him with rules. Meta knight as a character is a in a tier of his own and his meta game is far beyond any other character, he's highly used, and can be fun to watch, removing him completely is guaranteed to have some negative results. We want to avoid those negative results as much as possible, adding rules to only limit his game play if done within reason will only get the meta knight users angry but it wouldn't make them all quit.

I think meta knight should be banned but I think the results of a sudden ban could hurt the community more then help it so a long methodical process of making rules that would only effect meta knight should be done instead.

 

[Pierce7d]

As the BBR Public Relations representative, I must inform you that this rule will never come into play, and will always be actively discouraged by the BBR.

 

[DUB]

And so the timing out continues..

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

As the BBR Public Relations representative, I must inform you that this rule will never come into play, and will always be actively discouraged by the BBR.

<3 Pierce
10awesomebbrmember

 

[swordgard]

<3 Pierce
10awesomebbrmember

Pierce gets all the love because hes the only one allowed to talk about anything -.-

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yeah, that's because the BBR is set up to be that way. Set it up differently and you might get love too. :3

 

[swordgard]

Yeah, that's because the BBR is set up to be that way. Set it up differently and you might get love too. :3

Trust me, I tried. There is BBR, and then theres the ones who control the BBR. Huge difference.

You can actually some pretty obvious examples of this sometimes even in public discussions.

 

[BBQTV]

why do people john about banning mk? all you have to do is run mk ban tournaments, the T.O makes the rules at their tournament.

 

[iFudge]

if mk gets banned. gaw can plank next lolz. i think its more so of banning a way of the planking/stalling. that would make everything better.

 

[BBQTV]

ok check this

is stall-en

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

if mk gets banned. gaw can plank next lolz. i think its more so of banning a way of the planking/stalling. that would make everything better.

G&W's planking is weak dude.

why do people john about banning mk? all you have to do is run mk ban tournaments, the T.O makes the rules at their tournament.

It's pretty easy to see that even if the BBR supported banning MK, all it would mean is that the smash scene pays less attention to them. What, half of the important smashers and TOs main MK now?

 

[4nace]

The BBR only has influence over those who care to listen. They do not control the metagame haha. They only control the rules of tournaments who's TO's are either in the BBR or very close to it.


More people have played the Smash Brothers series without knowing a BBR exists than those who do.


If the BBR decided tomorrow that items are competitive and needed in tourneys, then most tournaments would just ignore them including the MLG.

Play the game how you want to play it, and if you don't like the BBR rules then run your own tournament and hear people complain to you. Or use their rules and when people complain, you can just say, "Well, that's how the BBR says the rules should be."


The BBR is nothing more than a group of well-known players. So if you think this timer idea works. Then gather up so friends and host a tournament to try it out!

 

[Jorgeme]

Yea the BBR doesn't control the TO's decisions on the ruleset. $$ decides the TO's decisions on the ruleset. I believe that some non mk tournies were held and simply were not as successful (not 100% sure, can someone confirm or deny this).

 

[ThreeSided]

This rule sucks. It would totally screw aerial characters over.

Unless....

Alright, lets just add one little thing: This rule only comes into play if a significant amount of the time was obviously spent excessively aircamping or planking by any player. This way, aircamping/planking as a primary strategy for winning would no longer make any sense. I think adding this little rule in will actually make this a good idea.

 

[Pierce7d]

Define a "significant amount of time?"

Also, how do you prove it? The purpose of air-time is letting it be provable.

Also, what if I'm any character vs. Olimar or ICs camping? These characters have devestating ground games, and will spend a lot of time on the ground, as they FORCE you to be air borne to combat them. Diddy and Snake too. You're discriminating amongst the cast which strategies are better for timing people out, instead of using the universal REGULAR win condition.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

^Falco forces air approaches too.

 

[Sushi3]

The "universal Regular win condition" would involve Sudden Death, regardless of Percentage, after a Timout. Since rules have been implemented to change the "win condition" of the game itself anyway, I don't understand why some people are so quick to reject a different "win condition."

I believe the argument for the idea was Playing "Normally" without deliberately running away or some form of planking would not yield in a Timeout. Therefore, characters with primarily aerial-based combat would not be "screwed over." The rule does not change the way the game is played, and only targets stalling.

I have seen few argue against the idea rather than simply reject it on the spot and assume that it will ruin the game

 

[Pierce7d]

First off, when I said Universal Win Condition, I was referring to the removal of all your opponents stocks before your stocks are all removed. We can agree that raising your opponent's percentage is typically a reasonable measure of success throughout the match, and generally makes it a bit easier to remove the stock. Of course, there are factors such as stale moves, etc, but in the flow of gameplay, as you TRY to win, the stock and percentage raise. Under your system, I could merely camp, and avoid death, while being in the air LESS than you, WITHOUT ATTEMPTING to damage you whatsoever, and still win. BTW, edge time does not count as air time. You must use all the same tactics which you would employ to defeat the opponent, to time them out, merely on a more defensive stance.

I can make up arbitrary rules like, "When the timer runs out, the higher tiered character wins the match." Nobody needs deep analyasis to realize this is a bad rule. I could say, "the player who used the least projectiles . . ." as projectiles are often campy and defensive. However, you can still see this is instantly a bad rule.

Additionally, I have shown you that there are some characters like Olimar, Snake, and ICs, which often force you into the air, while having very grounded games. These are characters likely to time you out. Why should they receive such an arbitrary bonus? King Dedede and Diddy Kong are more good examples.

Also, the reason that the timer is implemented into the game is because it causes an eventual victor (so tournaments do not run forever). Why should the eventual victor not be the one who was nearer to defeating their opponent? Air time is a HORRIBLE basis for determining anything? MK is pretty broken, but why should he be penalized for simply flying? Why should characters like Marth, who rely on jumping, inherently suffer?

The rule is simply and obviously poor.

 

[Orion*]

First off, when I said Universal Win Condition, I was referring to the removal of all your opponents stocks. We can agree that raising your opponent's percentage is typically a reasonable measure of success throughout the match, and generally makes it a bit easier to remove the stock. Of course, there are factors such as stale moves, etc, but in the flow of gameplay, as you TRY to win, the stock and percentage raise. Under your system, I could merely camp, and avoid death, while being in the air LESS than you, WITHOUT ATTEMPTING to damage you whatsoever, as still win. BTW, edge time does not count as air time. You must use all the same tactics which you would employ to defeat the opponent, to time them out.

I can make up arbitrary rules like, "When the timer runs out, the higher tiered character wins the match." Nobody needs deep analyzable to realize this is a bad rule. I could say, the player who used the least projectiles. Projectiles are often campy and defensive. However, you can still see this is instantly a bad rule.

Additionally, I have shown you that there are some characters like Olimar, Snake, and ICs, which often force you into the air, while having very grounded games. These are characters likely to time you out. Why should they receive such an arbitrary bonus?

Also, the reason that the timer is implemented into the game is because it causes an eventual victor (so tournaments do not run forever). Why should the eventual victor not be the one who was nearer to defeating their opponent? Air time is a HORRIBLE basis for determining anything? MK is pretty broken, but why should he be penalized for simply flying? Why should characters like Marth, who rely on jumping, inherently suffer?

The rule is simply and obviously poor.

get ***** this post is gold

// wins thread yall salty niggz can be out now

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Screw that.
[/maininganaerialcharacter]