Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*

[ROOOOY!]

I would either put this at 50-50, or 55-45 Sonic advantage.

I mean, ICs camp Sonic very well, between the Ice Blocks, Blizzards, and your hammers.

And yeah, Tenki is right, make the Chaingrab your second priority in this matchup.

I definately agree with these points.
A lot of the match is going to be Sonic trying to coax and opening, because Sonic's pretty good at pressuring the opponent once he's on them and Ice Climbers are particularly susceptable to this.
You can expect Sonic to space with tilts a lot, and also not use his spins (side/down b + dash attack) because it's pretty easy to be grabbed out of them, and also Blizzard absolutely ***** them.
You can expect Sonic to play aerially, approaching with Spinshot, just anything to avoid playing grounded against IC's. I'd say Sonic is better aerially than IC's, but that's kinda opinionated. '.'
Against a competant Sonic, offstage you're pretty much dead. Sonic has plenty of options offstage to mess with IC's particularly vunerable recovery.

My advice is to try and keep Sonic grounded, and avoid going offstage really.

I'll go into detail now, I'm pretty busy now, sorry '.'

 

[Tenki]

nah, ya think?

yalolmebbe.

I've had some weird results by the edge that aren't necessarily conducive to this matchup.

Like dashgrabbing Popo and sliding to the edge of the stage, pummelling, and having Nana fall to her death lol.

Or dash attacking, and just throwing out delayed jabs as Popo SDI's out and tries to get back on stage while Nana is still being jabbed.


IC's don't have too much trouble outprioritizing Sonic with aerials and other moves that aren't usually used due to focus on chaingrabs and desynch patterns. I've had trouble trying to fight SoPo's before. But that miiight be because I was too focused on trying to land a kill move lol.


On a silly note, IC's CAN go under FD.

It was really difficult for me, a non IC player, to do it, but it ensued in many lols. Partly because I screwed up or something and I made it to the other side but Nana didn't ...lol

That said, I'm not sure why, but I don't really see alot of IC's use side-B for recovery. That thing is amazing.

 

[Napilopez]

Blizzard is the beggest issue here XD. Desynchs... Ahhhhh. And as has been said, Chain grab is a secondary factor here. Sonic is normally a dynamic active character, and this is just made even more prominent in this mathcup as Sonic tries to avoid grabs and separate the AI IC from the Non AI one. Nana is much too easy to gimp for Sonic =/ After that its just bleh. Also, spikes will become less effective on Sonic because his UpB is like, the antispike lol, because of its sheer vertical distance.

Be wary of Sonic's cancels and stuff. Punish/space/annoy with blizzard, that is all lulz.

Fair can be used to separate Nana and popo well. I dunno why, I guess because of its large hitbox and time to DI, lol.

Sonic might tend to be more hit and run than usual here, trying to inflict quick damage then escaping with SDRs or short hopped aerials and such, again because he wil be avoid the grab. And its something he can do pretty well.

I'm putting this at 50:50.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Blizzard is ****. Forcing Sonic to approach with desynched ice blocks is ****. I don't see any way IC's wouldn't have the advantage in this matchup. Sonic doesn't have much going for him at all besides being fast enough to avoid cg's for a while, and being able to gimp IC's off stage. Or at least Nana. Nana is stupid. It's funny using homing attack, and watching Popo shield, but Nana still get hit. I'm too tired to type a lot of stuff, so I'm just going to say 60-40 IC's favor.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I would say that if it's not 50-50, then it's definitely in Sonic's favor. Let's not look at CG's for a minute, it's already established that ICs will NOT be grabbing Sonic (if at all). For one thing, ICs have more priority and range than Sonic. However, ICs attack speed can easily get punished by Sonic this is why desynch's are important. One whiff and it's likely that NANA WILL GET SEPERATED AND *****. Sonic has no trouble keeping them separated due to his speed. The spring is also a good tool for keeping Nana in the air while harassing Popo. Homing attack now becomes unpredictable, for it can either hit Popo or Nana. Side B's hop can also deflect ice blocks, so don't underestimate Sonic's approaches. If there's an advantage, it belongs to Sonic. In my opinion though, it is even or slightly in Sonic's favor (55:45).

If ICs want to win this, fight with extreme patience. When you hit him, make sure you pressure him enough so that he has a hard time getting away (Blizzards, superior priority, range and Side B comes to mind). Keep him close and leave the CG's out the door, unless you are extremely positive that your gonna get that grab in.

 

[Umby]

Apparently SH Fairs **** ICs on the ground.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I disagree I wuld say even if not 55:45 IC's advantage.
The IC's have a strong ground game and blizzards do a good job at fending off Sonic. granted it does leave them open from above so it can't be abused too much.
grabbing should not be a priority (it shouldn't be in most cases) since sonic's high speed and your bad grab range is not going to make it easy.


play defensively.
ice blocks from afar. blizzard once he gets upclose.
Aerially its best to keep him above you since from the side, his Bair can exchance with your aerials and he has alot more power to his Bair than most of the IC's aerials.

Spiking can be difficult so I wouldn't bother for it. Iw as spiked around 100% and just ^B'ed out of it no problem.

Space is important. If you can maintain it and ensure that Sonic cannot gain any momentum, the fight becomes easier and you can maintain pressure. Abuse the fact that he cannot grab you.


SHFairs don't **** the IC's on the grund. They can blizzard you out of it. They can blizzard Sonic out of all his SH approaches.


recommend stages.
Battle field,
Frigate Orpheon
Delfino plaza.

Stages that have platforms are good for hampering his aerial game since the IC's are good at slowing him down ground wise.
hell I'd even say 60:40.

 

[Funen1]

Sonic's sheer speed definitely makes it hard to get grabs in, he can easily catch up to and punish Nana when separated (although his lack of real killing moves gives you at least a little bit of time to catch up to Sonic), and his excellent recovery means he can gimp yours much farther out than other characters would be willing to try. I would agree that desynching would be the way to go here. While Sonic can approach you in no time, if you can damage him along the way, all the better for you. If you do manage to grab him, I would personally use chaingrab combos that don't give him any space to use the spring.

I would say this is either an even matchup or very slightly in Sonic's favor - depends on how well the opponent can control Sonic's speed against your tactics.

 

[Bnzaaa]

On a silly note, IC's CAN go under FD.

It was really difficult for me, a non IC player, to do it, but it ensued in many lols. Partly because I screwed up or something and I made it to the other side but Nana didn't ...lol

That said, I'm not sure why, but I don't really see alot of IC's use side-B for recovery. That thing is amazing.

Very true. It's just that Side-B is risky against Sonic, (or against any character really.) It gets a lot of distance, but it doesn't sweetspot the edge, and a spaced aerial will send one Climber into free fall. If perfectly timed, Popo will fall by himself, cause the Climbers to lose a stock.

Sonic also has many options to hit them out of Side-B. Spring, D-Air, D-Air to Spring, F-Air, B-Air, and Homing Attack can beat Side B I think. Some of these aerials need to be spaced to work.

Some people haven't mastered Side-B and feel they won't make it back to the stage. Also any character can jump in the way of it if they recover from below. This won't allow the Climbers to get as high as they normally would. It may do a ton of damage to get in the way, but their vertical distance becomes dramatically decreased. Most people don't want to sacrifice that much damage (Sonic doesn't need to.)

 

[ROOOOY!]

Sonic's sheer speed definitely makes it hard to get grabs in, he can easily catch up to and punish Nana when separated (although his lack of real killing moves gives you at least a little bit of time to catch up to Sonic), and his excellent recovery means he can gimp yours much farther out than other characters would be willing to try. I would agree that desynching would be the way to go here. While Sonic can approach you in no time, if you can damage him along the way, all the better for you. If you do manage to grab him, I would personally use chaingrab combos that don't give him any space to use the spring.

I would say this is either an even matchup or very slightly in Sonic's favor - depends on how well the opponent can control Sonic's speed against your tactics.

OH SHI!

Have you been lurking here? Or is this a second account?
I'm far too used to every person here being a neeeewwwbie and posting absolute rubbish.
Either way, that's the best post I've seen by someone who posted in the month they've joined.
Good job ^_^
+1 fan.

Stages? Ones with platforms, even though they might hamper the whole Ice Block game. Sonic sucks on platforms, and on a stage like Battlefield he's basically buggered if he wants to approach if you're camping properly.

 

[Napilopez]

recommend stages.
Battle field,
Frigate Orpheon
Delfino plaza.

Stages that have platforms are good for hampering his aerial game since the IC's are good at slowing him down ground wise.
hell I'd even say 60:40.

Would just like to note that platforms are not a bad thing for Sonic as a character.

Rather, most Sonic mains don't seem to be able to deal well with platforms. Platforms actually provide with several advantages, such as Usmash Pwningness, some cool SDR(Spin Dash Roll) into ASC(Aerial Spin Charge) tricks, and the fact that just about nothing above Sonics Uairs second hit will outrange/prioritize it is nice as well. It also allows for facilitated vertical KOs, usage of utilt, Makes blizzard spam less of a pain, etc. It was not until recently that I began to stat using platforms to my advantage, and I'd say I fare at least as well on platformed stages as I do on my beloved FD.Its all dependant on who I'm facing of course, but against the ICs I can see several advantages in using platformed stages.

Will blizzard reach through platforms on BF though? Oddly, I've never played the ICs on that stage, so I'm not sure.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Would just like to note that platforms are not a bad thing for

Will blizzard reach through platforms on BF though? Oddly, I've never played the ICs on that stage, so I'm not sure.

not sure what you mean by 'through the platforms'. blizzard is a horizontal hitting attack.

 

[Napilopez]

not sure what you mean by 'through the platforms'. blizzard is a horizontal hitting attack.

I know its horizontal, but it definately has some vertical reach as well does it not? I am simply wondering Weather it has enough vertical reach to hit through platforms if Sonic is standing above.

 

[Tenki]

maybe if they SH or FH blizzard, but definitely not from standing position.

 

[FrozenHobo]

up smash can though.

 

[Greenstreet]

Rotation #2 Sonic
Pic Soon

"You're Too Slow!!!" Our favorite hedgehog finally joins the Brawl. With speed that make any speed characters **** their pants, What does this mean for our ****** friends?

Behaviour:

Moves to watch out for:

How To Win:

Recommended stages:

Match Score:

Lol at least I asked for and credited my matchup discussion. (Although I think in the end I credited the wrong guy). Lol.

 

[Kinzer]

Is there anything left to say about the matchup between ICs and Sonic?

Man, I'm too slow!

I guess just take really good care of Nana...like they were more than siblings...but you already know that. Without here, it only makes things worse...blah...

Let me know when you people get up to Ike.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm too lazy to read most of that. ^_^

Sonic 55:45 IC if the Icy's are grabby little *******s. Sonic will just **** Nana up and take the stock.

Icy 55: Sonic 45 if Icy's know to use hammers and blizzards to keep Sonic from spacing correctly.

50 50 if Sonic knows how to deal with people ****ing with their spacing. Spin baiting blizzard and punishing Icys is too fun. But mindgames aren't part of matchup discussion. T_T


Numbers are stupid. It's about tied.

 

[lain]

tl;dr posts.

Sonic vs IC is an interesting matchup.

Sonic is very hard to GRAB. Very hard to catch. It turns into a battle of sonic racking up damage while avoiding grabs (using side B and down B).

Blizzard stops them (since no range), but then they'll just back up and run away again. Probably 60-40, simply because we can cg him to death, or spike him off the edge and if he upB's just stand there and press grab. Some Sonics will fair coming up, so just shield it, they'll go behind you, grab them.

As hard as Sonic is to grab, it's still an uphill battle. Don't be dumb and go for grabs here, cause Sonic is one of THE hardest characters to grab. I think jab cancels out sideBand down B come to think about it.

It's basically a battle of camping *****. If we make a mistake it won't be that bad (unless we're at high percents, where Sonic and UP+B up to nana and uair her, and we cant do **** about it). If he makes a big mistake, he's either getting blizzarded (which is lame), or he'll get grabbed (yay).

Play smart, don't let him rack the damage up on you, and you'll do fine.

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

Here's some, personal experience with fighting a friend that uses Sonic (Ironic because he hates all sonic games)

Anyways, let's see, I try to even grab him, racks enough damage, and kills me.
On the second stock, I play alright. I Ko him, not before he does a good amount of damage to me.
Then, he kills me on spawn.

Third Stock, I start to gain the lead. Using the Spring sonic setup on the floor near the edge, and stunning him for a few seconds, just to get my Air Smash Forward Attack in for kills, from around 10% and higher.

So yeah, take advantage of springs on the floor that sonic set up.

EDIT:
PS: If anyone wondered where I've gone, then I shall tell you. (As if anyone wants to know why.)
I've been doing other stuff. Playing Smash, Playing games, family issues, etc etc etc.....

 

[Nintendogs]

The IC definitely have an advantage over Peach, probably 6:4. She is just so easy to shieldgrab... Also, over the past few months the IC have slowly been getting better at the marth matchup, so now its probably about 55:45 or 6:4.

 

[choknater]

IC's are definitely good against Marth. With Peach it can be pretty close if she has good float spacing with her dairs and fairs. Glide toss to jab is also really hard to react to.

I'd saaay...

60:40 on Marth
55:45 or 50:50 on Peach

 

[FrozenHobo]

IC's are definitely good against Marth. With Peach it can be pretty close if she has good float spacing with her dairs and fairs. Glide toss to jab is also really hard to react to.

I'd saaay...

60:40 on Marth
55:45 or 50:50 on Peach

uh, marth has longer range and moves faster... i'd say 55:45 or 60:40 Marth

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I agree that the ICs have an advantage over Marth. I'd say it's at least 55:45 ICs favor. I think ICs Vs. Peach is pretty even; good Peaches are not easy to shield grab at all, lol.

 

[choknater]

IC's would be really bad without Blizz, hehe.

 

[FrozenHobo]

man you guys must play some really sucky marths. all the ones i play can separate the ICs, out space and juggle like mad.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

umm... I've beaten every notable Marth in SoCal except MikeHAZE, whom I have yet to play in a Brawl singles tournament.

 

[FrozenHobo]

then i dunno. the characters i have the most trouble with are:

MK
Wario
Marth
ROB
Sonic
G&W

everyone else in the cast is easy ****, these are only ones.... i still say marth has the advantage.

 

[gantrain05]

you've never played a good peach im guessing if you've never had trouble with her... >.> iceys are easy squeezy for peach.

 

[choknater]

Haha, Sonic.

Come on, step it up!

MK and ROB are definitely problematic.

Hey Fly, I've been using squall more so I'm finding the times where it can be used as a good approach. But going over and behind G&W? I keep getting hit lol. Maybe I'm just doing it at the wrong time.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Hey Fly, I've been using squall more so I'm finding the times where it can be used as a good approach. But going over and behind G&W? I keep getting hit lol. Maybe I'm just doing it at the wrong time.

It doesn't work that well on all G&Ws, although I'm not exactly sure why. Are you talking about using it to punish the turtle? If so, it's probably easier to just short hop backwards out of the way of the turtle and squall hammer back towards him such that you hit him when he's lagging. I mostly use cross-up squall hammer for getting around his fsmash nowadays.

you've never played a good peach im guessing if you've never had trouble with her... >.> iceys are easy squeezy for peach.

It's not an easy match-up for Peach; it's quite even.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Haha, Sonic.

Hey Fly, I've been using squall more so I'm finding the times where it can be used as a good approach. But going over and behind G&W? I keep getting hit lol. Maybe I'm just doing it at the wrong time.

oh yeah, forgot to add G&W...

 

[Umby]

Here's some, personal experience with fighting a friend that uses Sonic (Ironic because he hates all sonic games)

Anyways, let's see, I try to even grab him, racks enough damage, and kills me.
On the second stock, I play alright. I Ko him, not before he does a good amount of damage to me.
Then, he kills me on spawn.

Third Stock, I start to gain the lead. Using the Spring sonic setup on the floor near the edge, and stunning him for a few seconds, just to get my Air Smash Forward Attack in for kills, from around 10% and higher.

So yeah, take advantage of springs on the floor that sonic set up.

EDIT:
PS: If anyone wondered where I've gone, then I shall tell you. (As if anyone wants to know why.)
I've been doing other stuff. Playing Smash, Playing games, family issues, etc etc etc.....

Punishing spring setups doesn't always work. Sonic's spring is normally used to EVADE punishment. So more often than not, he'll Spring -> Dair away from you. You'd literally have to be chasing him in the direction he's facing to actually punish. Not exactly difficult, but not consistently reliable in any case.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

ill update tomorrow,im currently w/o a cpu so i cant be consistient so ill get back to updating again soon

and on GW,squall is made of win, you just gotta get in close enough and not look predictible

 

[Melee1]

Pretty good match up thread... Accept for falcos.. Its more like 7:3 iceclimbers. Falco is really easy to chaingrab and ics in my opinion is a hard counter....

 

[gantrain05]

i disagree with it being even with peach, the only thing the iceys can even do to stop her approach is blizzard, and thats really only an annoyance, and doesn't lead to anything =/ sorry, until an icey main proves to me otherwise, im going with 60-40 peach. its hard to believe its even for me when at any tourney i go to i have never lost to an ice climber.

 

[Snowstalker]

We have a major disagreement between the IC and Zelda boards. Also, Ganon boards calling the difficulty "infinity" sounds like a lot more than 70:30 to me.

 

[choknater]

Ice Climbers are about 320:-220 to Ganondorf. Much better than Sheik who is 140:-40 on him.

 

[Swordplay]

Its more like 7:3 iceclimbers. Falco is really easy to chaingrab and ics in my opinion is a hard counter....

as A link main I use Iceclimbers to counterpick falco. Any character that relies on chiain grabs like falco has their metagame completely screwed up because they can't chain grab both Popo and Nana at the same time :D

 

[DMG]

Falco however still has some annoying lasers and SH Phantasm, not to mention that he can also reflect Blizzard and Ice Blocks. I think Falco would win if he plays extremely campy.