Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*

[KRDsonic]

Sheik is annoying to fight with IC? Wait what? That's one of IC's best matchups because Sheik has very little she can do against Ice Climbers, except the chain.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Sheik is annoying to fight with IC? Wait what? That's one of IC's best matchups because Sheik has very little she can do against Ice Climbers, except the chain.

Sheik is still fast enough to be able to seperate them easily, provided she doesn't mess up on her sheildpressure or spacing. She doesn't have the advantage but it's not a horrible **** match-up. She CAN be annoying.

 

[ADHD]

Sheik is still fast enough to be able to seperate them easily, provided she doesn't mess up on her sheildpressure or spacing. She doesn't have the advantage but it's not a horrible **** match-up. She CAN be annoying.

Explain how sheik is going to approach you as the ice climbers lol

 

[Speedsk8er]

Explain how sheik is going to approach you as the ice climbers lol

Explain how approaching is in Brawl.

Sheik's gonna use the same strat that she used in Melee, which was stay in the air, punish the nana, not get grabbed, etc.

 

[choknater]

Not really. Sheik's game against IC's is more of a bair/nair/jab/tilt hit and run game, combined with needles and possibly chains.

She has very few safe approaches, but they are there. Fast falled nairs into jabs are really good. Jabbing is basically the only way to prevent getting grabbed if you are too close.

Sheik shouldn't be approaching in the first place, so charged needles are the greatest strength she can use. The only problem is that it takes time to charge them, and IC's will usually be trying to approach with desynchs.... or the general run up and shield approach. If sheik gets grabbed she is done.

Sheik can fight back... but basically the IC's can **** her still. Staying in the air and fairing worked in melee. In Brawl... it's more about hit-and-run, jab, and PLATFORMS.

Needles are too good as well.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

ok i think this matchup is a little bit off, seriously the iceys have more than just 3 bad matchups, and they are only to snake meta and G&W? the other bad matchups are like 4-6 or 45-55? no way, if that was true they would be just under metaknight, because snake has more bad matchups than that.

true...sort of. IC are indeed high tier characters.meaning they most likely wont have alot of bad matchups,but more equal matchups are most likely

what do you guys think about Wario?advantage or equal matchup?

sheik seems like a 8:2,she can counter,but its pretty unlikely.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

wait... the iceclimbers.... think they have the advatage against Zelda?

honestly she mobs the two of you like nobodies business... and the long duration of her USmash and FSmash mean that it's not unlikely that she'll rip at least one of you out of your shield

her normally difficult to land powerhouse aerials have NO trouble hitting your retarted partner the second she/he separates.

She's incredibly resistant to being grabbed, the sole property that puts the icies as high as they are on the teir list...

oh and also, the icies can't really approach her well..... that's a big problem...

and... they are one of the few charcters with a worse air game than Zelda... Zelda can ACTUALLY go into an aerial dogfite with the climbers and come out the victor... and have been predicted to do so.


what do the icies have on Zelda at all?

70:30 Zelda.... conservative estimate... courtasy of the zelda boards WITH input from IC mains... or maybe it was just one main... regardless... it was a respectable IC and he aknowledges Zelda is a very hard matchup for the ICs

 

[NinjaFoxX]

thanks for the input...to be honest ive never even fought a zelda with IC and apparently noone else has(or one person)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

problem is... I don't fight any IC mains with her... just IC users.... but I obliterate them... so I mean... it's obvious she's got some advatage there.

 

[Vlade]

Just some advice - I like the idea and the input so far but to be really honest the first post is qutie messy and cluttered with text, it doesn't look very organised. Why don't you try and clean it up a little so that it makes it a lot easier to read? I recommend having a look at the Snake match-up thread format, or OBM's Game and Watch match-up guide to get some ideas of how you should compile the information. You don't have to do it all in one go if the task seems too big for you.

 

[swordgard]

Im having problems with a marth whos specialty is gimping right now. I need to find some decent way for him not to gimp nana, any idea? Also i need help to approach him

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

wait... the iceclimbers.... think they have the advatage against Zelda?

honestly she mobs the two of you like nobodies business... and the long duration of her USmash and FSmash mean that it's not unlikely that she'll rip at least one of you out of your shield

her normally difficult to land powerhouse aerials have NO trouble hitting your retarted partner the second she/he separates.

She's incredibly resistant to being grabbed, the sole property that puts the icies as high as they are on the teir list...

oh and also, the icies can't really approach her well..... that's a big problem...

and... they are one of the few charcters with a worse air game than Zelda... Zelda can ACTUALLY go into an aerial dogfite with the climbers and come out the victor... and have been predicted to do so.


what do the icies have on Zelda at all?

70:30 Zelda.... conservative estimate... courtasy of the zelda boards WITH input from IC mains... or maybe it was just one main... regardless... it was a respectable IC and he aknowledges Zelda is a very hard matchup for the ICs

Yes, Zelda is a pretty good IC counter. Hell, she always was. She has a really strong anti-ground game. She's really frustrating.

Im having problems with a marth whos specialty is gimping right now. I need to find some decent way for him not to gimp nana, any idea? Also i need help to approach him

The best advice I can give is don't get separated. MArth can gimp Nana like nobody's business. D:

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I played my friend who is a Zelda an it seems to be an even match. Once I can grab them, the kill is mine. Once she starts the Din's Fire Gimping, it's 50% chance of recovery for me unless I play it smart.

 

[Smasher89]

Is Zelda seriously a threat for IC's?, I know that the usmash is rather annoying, but from what i´ve seen most Zeldaplayers are predictable and should be easy to grab, just wait for the usmash and grab her after...

 

[lain]

Zelda can be a problem for an IC player who doesn't know how to pivot into blizzards.

The long duration and short long of Zelda's moves counter IC's horrible range, but that's why blizzarding must be used, as well as dash attacks to put Zelda into the air where followups and of course grabbing when she lands occurs.

IC:Zelda
60:40

 

[Miller]

wait... the iceclimbers.... think they have the advatage against Zelda?

honestly she mobs the two of you like nobodies business... and the long duration of her USmash and FSmash mean that it's not unlikely that she'll rip at least one of you out of your shield

her normally difficult to land powerhouse aerials have NO trouble hitting your retarted partner the second she/he separates.

She's incredibly resistant to being grabbed, the sole property that puts the icies as high as they are on the teir list...

oh and also, the icies can't really approach her well..... that's a big problem...

and... they are one of the few charcters with a worse air game than Zelda... Zelda can ACTUALLY go into an aerial dogfite with the climbers and come out the victor... and have been predicted to do so.


what do the icies have on Zelda at all?

70:30 Zelda.... conservative estimate... courtasy of the zelda boards WITH input from IC mains... or maybe it was just one main... regardless... it was a respectable IC and he aknowledges Zelda is a very hard matchup for the ICs

Your whole argument is so bias its facepalm worthy.

Zelda, infact, is one of the easiest people to CG. Din's fire spam is completely useless against someone who really knows how to play the game.

Zelda is infact so easy to grab, you have no idea. Once you get past that Din's fire spam, guess what, its close combat. Guess what ***** at close combat. Grabs. Guess who ***** with grabs.Iceclimbers.

Also, you obviously haven't fought a REAL IC player. By real, I mean people who do other **** besides infinitely grabbing. No I don't mean CGs, I mean constant attempts at grabs.

 

[DMG]

Wario vs IC's:

Wario is tough to grab... most of the time he can just hit your shield with an aerial and retreat away safely. He has no range at all. Period. Abuse that advantage carefully, don't get careless and think you are safe just because you have a desynch "wall" put up. He's great at separating Nana, he's great at gimping the IC's even when you have both of them to recover, and even if he doesn't gimp you he can flat out kill you at gross %'s.

It feels like a baiting game, IC's bait Wario into attacking by appearing to make a mistake in spacing, timing, etc. and Wario baits the IC's into going for a grab or an attack when it really isn't safe to do so. I would put it as an even matchup.

 

[DanGR]

You've got Zelda down as 6-4 IC, which is an advantage. In the explanation, you've got 70-30 Zelda, which is a huge disadvantage. What should I put down in the matchup chart?

Edit:

*sees an IC v Zelda discussion*

*waits*

 

[Miller]

You've got Zelda down as 6-4 IC, which is an advantage. In the explanation, you've got 70-30 Zelda, which is a huge disadvantage. What should I put down in the matchup chart?

Edit:

*sees an IC v Zelda discussion*

*waits*

Really, its hard to say. Id go for a 45:55 in IC favor

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I used to have trouble with Zelda, but that was just lack of match-up experience. Nowadays, my ICs usually eat alot of Zelda's for lunch . I guess her range and Din's fire spam gets annoying, but it's not a problem unless i'm recovering. She can just neutral B the Blizzard though , but that's if you're predictable. I just don't see Zelda as one of ICs worst match ups anymore.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

dodge the din's?SHAD much?once youre past the din,the olny real worry is the u-smash and nayrus...
im gonna go with 55:45 IC,anything else?

 

[choknater]

bias

i'm always glad to mediate for the D3, sheik/zelda, and ic boards, since i main all 3

Zelda has the advantage IMO

don't SHAD past din's fire, just roll past it

Zelda vs ic's close combat is even imo, zelda is just as likely to be grabbed as ic's are likely to get dsmashed or caugh in nayru's love or fsmash

zelda has the advantage in the air, but ic's are never gonna be in the air so whatever

din's spam is more effective than you'd think vs ic's, especially when they are recovering (there are many frames where at least one ic will be hit by din's even if you air dodge)

yes zelda is easy to cg, those most of the light/mid weight characters are

zelda can avoid grabs decently well if she jumps around with bairs and nairs a lot cuz there's little lag

she can't really platform camp to avoid ic's though

IMO zelda 60:40

 

[Miller]

bias

I'm actually not being bias

i'm always glad to mediate for the D3, sheik/zelda, and ic boards, since i main all 3

GG XD

don't SHAD past din's fire, just roll past it

Just shield or sidestep aswell

Zelda vs ic's close combat is even imo, zelda is just as likely to be grabbed as ic's are likely to get dsmashed or caugh in nayru's love or fsmash

Zelda's punishment doesnt even compare to IC punishment, no characters does.

zelda has the advantage in the air, but ic's are never gonna be in the air so whatever

Even if shes in the air, your going to be on the ground right? Just Uair her

din's spam is more effective than you'd think vs ic's, especially when they are recovering (there are many frames where at least one ic will be hit by din's even if you air dodge)

I actually have no trouble timing it so I dont get hit, maybe thats just me =\

zelda can avoid grabs decently well if she jumps around with bairs and nairs a lot cuz there's little lag

Predictable stuff is easy to punish

she can't really platform camp to avoid ic's though

Exactly, thats what you usually have to do to get around IC, but since she cant, she's at a disadvantage

IMO zelda 60:40

55:54 IC

 

[PhantomX]

Wario vs IC's:

Wario is tough to grab... most of the time he can just hit your shield with an aerial and retreat away safely. He has no range at all. Period. Abuse that advantage carefully, don't get careless and think you are safe just because you have a desynch "wall" put up. He's great at separating Nana, he's great at gimping the IC's even when you have both of them to recover, and even if he doesn't gimp you he can flat out kill you at gross %'s.

It feels like a baiting game, IC's bait Wario into attacking by appearing to make a mistake in spacing, timing, etc. and Wario baits the IC's into going for a grab or an attack when it really isn't safe to do so. I would put it as an even matchup.

I'm quoting this so that it gets seen. Hell, for all intents and purposes, with good timing and spacing Wario can hit repeatedly w/ dairs till he pops Nana into the air, and from there it's just a gimping/pummeling frenzy. If a Wario is being overly cautious you'll be hardpressed to grab him at all. Wario can also own ICs trying to recover with Belay. IMO what makes thiss matchup even is that the IC's side b, when intelligently used, is very hard for Wario to punish (nothing beats it except coming from the top with a dair); as well as our nice grab range being nullified by Nana's presence . If it wasn't for the hammer owning us, I would actually give slight advantage to Wario. By the time I ended up getting grabbed by Hylian (when I played him), I would've been dead had a smash hit me anyway.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

updated.added in the wario part(i though i had already put in in,lol)

ok,so what do you think about Diddy?he seems equal but idk....

 

[momochuu]

You can use this if you'd like. =)

 

[FrozenHobo]

You can use this if you'd like. =)

thats cool.

 

[PKNintendo]

Umm, why is Ness randomly at 7-3. Ness isn't even infinited by them, grab released smashed, nor can they wreck him. I think it's even or Ness at a slight advantage.

Ice climbers are heavier as team right? Well Ness backthrow grabs ONE of them and kills them early. (light)

And if Ness grabs Nana, she's dead too at a MUCH earlier time since she DI's in an updward and forwards area (she wants to go back to popo)

In the air Ness aerials are quite good, and Ness is yo-yo's can easily makes space between IC and their grabs.

Im sorry but no.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I think Ness is really bad at punishing squall hammer, which is a huge problem for him. I'll admit that I don't have a lot experience in this match-up, but I feel like if I just space myself a bit within the max range of pk fire, I can control the pace of the match very well, and what little experience I have against Ness is consistent with this feeling.

 

[PKNintendo]

I think Ness is really bad at punishing squall hammer, which is a huge problem for him. I'll admit that I don't have a lot experience in this match-up, but I feel like if I just space myself a bit within the max range of pk fire, I can control the pace of the match very well, and what little experience I have against Ness is consistent with this feeling.

PKF is not Ness best tool. A simple yo-yo is all thats needed (or a lucky bat) Squall hammer is ignited by PKF IIRC.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Ness can be infinited, just do continuous b-throws. :/ Squall punishes Ness, and I think that desynched Squall then Blizzard to a grab works fine for an approach but you just need to watch out for his PK Magnet if he times the move correctly during Blizzard. And once he uses PK Fire to the ICs, he'll start to grab, do a dash attack, or whatever, just DI out of PK Fire then hit him. xD

And b-throwing one of Popo or Nana doesn't mean they get killed early, they get killed around more than 110% if I recall correctly. And didn't you forget once Ness grabs the other ice climber can attack as a counter? Since b-throw has a bit of start-up lag you can just counter it with an attack.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

PKF is not Ness best tool. A simple yo-yo is all thats needed (or a lucky bat) Squall hammer is ignited by PKF IIRC.

I already know that PKF isn't anything amazing in this match-up, although I guess I can see it being okay for getting Nana KOed at high percentages. I like being a bit inside the max range of PKF, but still far enough for Ness's fair to not be much of a threat, just because it's a range at which the ICs can randomly approach with sh squall hammer (preferably a cross-up squall hammer, but that isn't always viable), which usually nets the ICs a positional advantage, or just camp with little risk of getting punished.

I don't think Ness's fsmash is very viable in this match-up. I can see it being used to punish squall hammer, but I don't think it'll hit the ICs if they space it properly. The yo-yo sounds fine, but I don't think it would be hard to punish with sh squall hammer OoS, sh blizzard OoS (maybe not, though, since Ness might have enough to down B before the blizzard hits him), or just a grab if the Ness doesn't space himself well.

edit 1:

desynched Squall then Blizzard to a grab works fine for an approach but you just need to watch out for his PK Magnet if he times the move correctly during Blizzard.

That sounds like a ridiculously easily intercepted approach, even for a desynch approach. It's almost always better to stay synched when approaching in pretty much all of the ICs' match-ups.

edit 2: The ICs can CG Ness just fine; most ICs, including myself, probably just don't know how to time it since we never actually play against Ness. However, while CGs are nice, they are totally unnecessary for the ICs to win this match-up.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

b-throw kills at 93%+
synced squall is your most solid approach,Dsmash or Fsmash works great for punishing the yo-yo,getting a grab on ness is not that hard.

also bunny,im totally gonna use that chart.

 

[choknater]

wow looks awesome

 

[Miller]

edit 2: The ICs can CG Ness just fine; most ICs, including myself, probably just don't know how to time it since we never actually play against Ness. However, while CGs are nice, they are totally unnecessary for the ICs to win this match-up.

I can chaingrab ness quite easily actually, pretty easy with Bthrow

 

[Bnzaaa]

Ness is chainable through continued down throws as well.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness can be infinited, just do continuous b-throws. :/ Squall punishes Ness, and I think that desynched Squall then Blizzard to a grab works fine for an approach but you just need to watch out for his PK Magnet if he times the move correctly during Blizzard. And once he uses PK Fire to the ICs, he'll start to grab, do a dash attack, or whatever, just DI out of PK Fire then hit him. xD

And b-throwing one of Popo or Nana doesn't mean they get killed early, they get killed around more than 110% if I recall correctly. And didn't you forget once Ness grabs the other ice climber can attack as a counter? Since b-throw has a bit of start-up lag you can just counter it with an attack.

Ness can't be infinited by IC, stop spreading false info. A good Ness won't allow himself to get punished when using PKF.

I dislike how you have very limited experience in this matchup. Cpu's don't count.

Edit: Which infinite are you talking, the regular one or Ness specific? You guys are SERIOUSLY underestimating Ness.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

We're talking about any of the 20 or whatever inescapable ICs CGs that work on everybody. Nobody is safe from the ICs' grabs, except other ICs to a certain extent.

PKF is really easy to punish if you read it and your spacing doesn't suck.

 

[PKNintendo]

We're talking about any of the 20 or whatever inescapable ICs CGs that work on everybody. Nobody is safe from the ICs' grabs, except other ICs to a certain extent.

PKF is really easy to punish if you read it and your spacing doesn't suck.

PKF ISN'T NESS ONLY TOOL!!!

And you overate the grab. It's pitiful range and I quote

''They have such a pathetic grab range that pretty much anyone, even Captain Falcon, can outspace them.''

So what does IC have Ness (on hims specifically) gimping? Well you can say the same about everyone below Ness on the ''prototype'' recovery tier list.

Ness backthrow ***** the IC's. Especially when Nana is grabbed, she's dead because she's to dumb to properly DI. Popo on his own is pretty light. SCREW PKF! PKT mindgames can help mix things up, and Ness nice aerials, and excellent smashes (yes not the bat but the YO-YO's) are great at spacing and keeping the IC's at bay. Im thinking 5-5, I see nothing special that IC only can do to Ness.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

PKF ISN'T NESS ONLY TOOL!!!

I know that. I was mostly directing that at a "A good Ness won't allow himself to get punished when using PKF," which is false.

And you overate the grab. It's pitiful range and I quote

''They have such a pathetic grab range that pretty much anyone, even Captain Falcon, can outspace them.''

I never said CGs were amazing in this match-up; I was just correcting you since you seem to think that the ICs can't infinite Ness.

So what does IC have Ness (on hims specifically) gimping? Well you can say the same about everyone below Ness on the ''prototype'' recovery tier list.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, but I'm going to guess that it's something about how well the ICs can gimp Ness. While they can fair him off the edge and harass him with ice blocks, I think Ness can recover if he plays his cards right (though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some algorithm the ICs can follow to guarantee his death, either.) Not that this matters a lot, since the ICs usually KO off the top instead of the sides/bottom.

Ness backthrow ***** the IC's. Especially when Nana is grabbed, she's dead because she's to dumb to properly DI. Popo on his own is pretty light. SCREW PKF! PKT mindgames can help mix things up, and Ness nice aerials, and excellent smashes (yes not the bat but the YO-YO's) are great at spacing and keeping the IC's at bay. Im thinking 5-5, I see nothing special that IC only can do to Ness.

Ness isn't very good at grabbing ICs, either, and unless Nana's at a high percentage, grabbing her is usually worthless since the ICs will ultimately punish Ness harder anyways. It's actually probably better to grab Popo, although if the ICs are synched, grabbing either one will probably get you hit with fsmash. PKT is almost always a terrible idea in this match-up, except possibly for KOing a lost Nana with PKT2. Ness risks death pretty much everytime he uses PKT/PKT2, since missing means getting grabbed. Ness's aerials aren't good for keeping the ICs at bay since a cross-up squall hammer will beat every aerial he has except maybe uair, which otherwise doesn't seem like a very threatening move. Yo-yos are decent in my experience, but they're still not that hard to punish.