Diddyknight
Smash Lord
blizzard ***** Bowser
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Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*
- Thread starter NinjaFoxX
- Start date
- Status
Popertop
Smash Champion
meh.
I dunno.
I dunno.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Big target? Yes.
Easy to juggle? Yes.
Not fast? Yes.
Predictable recovery? Yes.
Short range? Hell no!
Bowser can turtle with his tilts and jabs all day. The range on these are bigger then you think. Fire breath can be used the same way Ice Climber's Blizzard can, but it has more usability.
The entire match is based upon Bowser avoiding the grab. If he avoids the grab, he'll win. If you grab him, he gets *****.
70-30 max.
Popertop
Smash Champion
He also has some attacks that **** shields.
Have I ever told you I love you MrEh?
Have I ever told you I love you MrEh?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
i pretty much agree with the numbers, but not the statement. you can easily **** bowser without grabs. blizzards, squalls, tilts and smashes easily **** him over.
Popertop
Smash Champion
how are you going to **** him over with blizzards that have less range than his fire, squalls that his Ftilt go through, tilts that he outranges with his jabs, and smashes he can beat with his smashes?
don't think so pal.
It would have been better to argue the chaigrab aspect of the match.
I'm ready with my counterpoint whenever you want to start it.
don't think so pal.
It would have been better to argue the chaigrab aspect of the match.
I'm ready with my counterpoint whenever you want to start it.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
Jump blizzards go over his flame. squalls can go in the air, you get great horizontal movement with squall you you can mindgame in and out really quick and punish him if he tries to rush in to punish lag. not to mention his smashes have horrible range. if they miss he can be easily punished.
its really not that difficult to pummel him continuously.
if you want i'l go online now and kill your bowser without cgs.
its really not that difficult to pummel him continuously.
if you want i'l go online now and kill your bowser without cgs.
Popertop
Smash Champion
First of all:
I wouldn't just throw out flames randomly I would wait until you were open.
I will shield and fortress every squall you throw at me.
And I wouldn't have to run in to punish your lag, I would just sit there and tilt you all day.
And secondly: I don't have a wii nor online play, and online is ******** b/c of lag, I hate online.
I could report how it goes against Melee1 next time I play him if you would rather that?
I wouldn't just throw out flames randomly I would wait until you were open.
I will shield and fortress every squall you throw at me.
And I wouldn't have to run in to punish your lag, I would just sit there and tilt you all day.
And secondly: I don't have a wii nor online play, and online is ******** b/c of lag, I hate online.
I could report how it goes against Melee1 next time I play him if you would rather that?
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
except that he cgs. i don't cg. maybe you should get online the next time you play with ,melee1 and i'll take you then.
Popertop
Smash Champion
I just said I don't have a wii and wouldn't do online if I did have one.
I have some tricks up my sleeve for when he starts playing as the Desparate Climbers.
I have some tricks up my sleeve for when he starts playing as the Desparate Climbers.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
it just sounds like you're arguing 70:30 bowser. because of IC horrible grab range, any of the strategies i've mentioned would be even more punishable if i used grabs. you can't argue that grabs are better and then say that if they get close you'll kill them. it you need to pick a side, otherwise it makes you look like a hypocrite.
eh, thought you were the other guy....
eh, thought you were the other guy....
Popertop
Smash Champion
lOLOLOLolololOLOLOlolL.
Nah i'm just messing with you.
ICies have heavy advantage, but i dunno.
I really want bowser to wreck.
I'm just sad.
Sad Poper.
But srsly we need to play some time.
I'll hit you up when I'm at my friend's.
Nah i'm just messing with you.
ICies have heavy advantage, but i dunno.
I really want bowser to wreck.
I'm just sad.
Sad Poper.
But srsly we need to play some time.
I'll hit you up when I'm at my friend's.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
lOLOLOLolololOLOLOlolL.
Nah i'm just messing with you.
ICies have heavy advantage, but i dunno.
I really want bowser to wreck.
I'm just sad.
Sad Poper.
But srsly we need to play some time.
I'll hit you up when I'm at my friend's.
sounds good. i'd like to play you too (don't see too many good bowsers around here).
but i do know what you're saying. i've seen some good bowsers (Gimpy mostly....) play and they do do a great job, but ICs do have the advantage. :-/
Popertop
Smash Champion
Yeah, I play Wario and Lucario, so I'm pretty good at not getting grabbed.
LOL
;P
Sliq's Bowser is pretty ****, and NinjaLink's is really really good.
LOL
;P
Sliq's Bowser is pretty ****, and NinjaLink's is really really good.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Yeah, Bowser loses to blizzard camping. Fire breath might outrange blizzard, but it's easy to DI out of and doesn't lead to much, and if I read the fire breath, I can just squall hammer over it and hit Bowser from behind (though if the Bowser reads this, he can up+B and possibly separate the ICs). Also, blizzard and squall hammer knock Bowser up at higher percentages, giving the ICs a positional advantage and potentially a KO opportunity. 70:30 ICs sounds fine to me.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
I'd say 110:-10 on this one.
gantrain05
Smash Master
100-0 bowser dominance...he's got teh fyre and klaws cmon guys really.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
torkoal with ember is never gonna defeat two sealeos with blizzard
MrEh
Smash Hero
Angle the fire upwards. Or retreat jump and shoot the fire from a distance.
If you squall in his face, he can shield and Fortress. If you squall from a distance, he can tilt or fire you.
It's hard to punish a jumping fire.
No competent Bowser player will throw out smashes against the IC. That's like asking for a free chaingrab.
Ftilt and jabs say otherwise.
Popertop
Smash Champion
I FUKKIN LOVE MrEh!!
lain
Smash Master
It's still ****in Bowser. Get ***** son.
/matchup
/matchup
MrEh
Smash Hero
IC still **** Bowser, but not 100% of the time.
Having the matchup at 90-10 is ********. The only character that has that much dominance over Bower is Dedede. And last time I checked, the IC grab range wasn't 50,000 feet like the fat penguin's.
Having the matchup at 90-10 is ********. The only character that has that much dominance over Bower is Dedede. And last time I checked, the IC grab range wasn't 50,000 feet like the fat penguin's.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
IC still **** Bowser, but not 100% of the time.
Having the matchup at 90-10 is ********. The only character that has that much dominance over Bower is Dedede. And last time I checked, the IC grab range wasn't 50,000 feet like the fat penguin's.
who said anything about 90:10?
MrEh
Smash Hero
Exaggeration.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I hardly feel like responding this is so rediculously stupid... so I'll just highlight a few points
that should about do it.
seriously. No good zelda uses din's fire as a core part of gameplay. I relish playing against the ICs. it's one of zelda's easiest matchups. We beat you in the air. we beat you on the ground. we beat you at long distance. the only thing you have is instant death grabs. well. Zelda's hard to grab. maybe she's easy to CG once you grab her, but you assume you'll be grabbing her enough for that to matter. you'll be lucky if you land one against her in the match. and she kills nana very easily. I know everyone does, but zelda's smashes separate you two, especially if you try to DI out of them AND nana eats lightning kicks/stomps and uairs that pretty much no one else would. and popo alone is just a sad sight.
I really can';t see how you'll be winning that much if at all. your projectile spam gets ***** by dins AND nayru's, so you can't camp. your approaches get stuffed... every one of them zelda can beat out. you might have a good CG, but your grab range is attrocious and zelda has enough GTFO moves to get you away if somehow you manage to get close enough to grab. in the air you're one of the few characters that she can completely school. you are vulnerable from below and BOTH sides to death by zelda.
you've got very very little going for you in the matchup. And what do IC's normally consider one of their strongpoints? that people fear the CG so much they have to fight at a range that most characters aren't comfortable with so that they can keep the ICs away... well fortunately that's a range that zelda enjoys being in anyway. Fsamsh and ftilt outrange your everything. and Dsamsh, and Dtilt probably outrange and outspeed anything you have on the ground. Usmash stops all your aerial approaches, and, like nair and fsmash, separates the two of you normally. utilt also stops your aerial approcahes and kills. most of her attacks are unable to be sheildgrabbed. the exception is maybe Nayru's which still functions as a great GTFO move if you manage to be that close.
So, I mean, you have your grab of death when nana's still alive. but other than that, nothing threatening. Considering how much trouble you'll have landing that initial grab on zelda even if you focus on landing it, there's no way that's anywhere NEAR enough of a consideration to make the match even EVEN for you guys. you have that on everyone. you have it on Metaknight. does that make the match yours to lose? no, because if you have only one reliable strategy against an oponent and it's as hard as to land as it is, especially against that character, then you don't have an adantage. period. it's not even even. period. heck. if you didn't have the chaingrab, what would you have at all in the matchup? it'd probably be even worse for you.
Zelda boards have placed you at 70:30 our advantage and no iceclimber raised even an ounce of doubt in our minds.
Popertop
Smash Champion
****,
get wrecked son
get wrecked son
lain
Smash Master
It's still ****ing Zelda. Get ***** son.
/matchup
/matchup
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
thank you friends. your tremendous insight has been most helpful
lain
Smash Master
Lol. Yeah I'm kind of a ****.
I dunno. It's just my belief that IC's **** a whole bunch of characters for free.
I dunno. It's just my belief that IC's **** a whole bunch of characters for free.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
possibly true. they certainly **** sheik. Zelda just isn't one of those charcters.
lain
Smash Master
No they.... they kind **** Zelda too.
IC's only get tripped up by Zelda if they're just running in like idiots. THAT'S a losing battle.
IC's only get tripped up by Zelda if they're just running in like idiots. THAT'S a losing battle.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
they have to get close to grab. they ain't gonna do that against zelda. they've got nothing on her. She kinda destroys them. but feel free to give any reason that wouldn't be the case.
So zelda has an advantage?
I have not faced any really good zeldas, but imo the matchup just looks like wait for a f/usmash, then run in and grab between them, maybe nayrus love helps but I think IC´s should be very capable of grabbing her.
I have not faced any really good zeldas, but imo the matchup just looks like wait for a f/usmash, then run in and grab between them, maybe nayrus love helps but I think IC´s should be very capable of grabbing her.
Just a quick note of the sonic matchup. I think sonic has NO moves that outprioritises blizzard, which means desynched iceblocks and blizzard after a quick % lead will give you the win, IMO a extreemly booring matchup (since sonic ha no real threats, but playing it to win shouldn´t be a problem at all for ICs ( more boring then retreating fair as marth in ssbm)
Popertop
Smash Champion
you really need to fight a good Zelda.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
Fsmash has very little cooldown. especially for the range it has, and she won't be spamming it like an idiot anyway. but if you try to run in after a fsmash, you'll probably get fsmashed by another fsmash, or get dsmashed. usmash definitely can be grabbed after, but, again, she won't be spamming it like an idiot.
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