I QUIT (the game), SOMEONE ELSE TAKE OVER

[Guilhe]

I would say this stage is a counterpick against opponents with tether recoveries. For Ike, the boat is fine, the ascending is bearable (get defensive!), the pendulum is bad and the side-scrolling part is fine too (if the opponent does not CG).

Also how is a stage like Rainbow Cruise legal, yet Rumble Falls and Mushroomy Kingdom aren't? Aren't all those mentioned stages all side-scrollers?

Rumble Falls: The scrolling speed and the stage shape make this stage too intrusive;
Mushroomy Kingdom: Chain grab!

 

[HeroMystic]

Mushroomy Kingdom: Chain grab!

And wall infinites out of the ***.

 

[Deleted member]

ike ***** *** here.

 

[Ussi]

omg someone who agrees with me! Thank you umbreon!

 

[Kinzer]

Well not that I hate the stage...but for some Counterpicks, there are better places...but at least this ain't Japes.

 

[Ussi]

Well it all comes down to comfortable

 

[Deleted member]

ussi @ the tournament in philly boxman's team counterpicked me here. we 5 stocked them in under 2 minutes.

this stage is amazing for ike. his sword hits everywhere.

 

[HeroMystic]

I suppose it depends on familiarity of the stage (which I have plenty of) and your style.

I just don't like it due to the fact plenty of characters get better advantages than Ike does. Doesn't seem very worth it in my opinion.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Plus teams is a very different story mod guy.

 

[Deleted member]

it was an example. ike still ***** here really bad.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Meh I just don't see what Ike has in here plus you always say something like omg Ike ***** in here start spamming smash attacks.

I don't really see these advantages against people except for like olimar, Ivy, and maybe IC.

 

[Kinzer]

Simply put, only bring certain people here, and nobody else...

That, and learn to get comfortable on RC.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

What for those when you have plenty of other stages. I'd much rather take olimar to pirate ship who cares if you can't gimp him his pikmin die and you just spike him to death.

I think I would rather get used to jungle japes for this match up too unless olimar owns there but I don't see it happening because of his terrible recovery.

 

[Kinzer]

Because unless you Ban RC, someone out there ACTUALLY enjoys that PoS for a stage...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

But your only learning it to be at a disadvantage anyways because I doubt olimar will be bringing you here.

 

[Deleted member]

Meh I just don't see what Ike has in here plus you always say something like omg Ike ***** in here start spamming smash attacks.

Ike is good on most stages, particularly the weird ones. Any stage that forces your opponent from camping is a good Ike stage.

As for Ike, I dislike fighting Wolf and DDD, and I dislike Yoshi's, Halberd, and Lylat. Everything else is cool. He has the tools to win on those stages and to fight the other characters pretty well from my experience, which I would imagine is pretty good since I spend 2 weekends a month in MD/VA where all the best players are. Stop looking for Ike's advantages, he's a limited character and all of his advantages were found within the first 2 weeks of the game's release. Look for ways to minimize his disadvantages instead. This isn't hard stuff.

Don't be bitter that I'm amazing @ ike's charge fsmashes.

 

[Kinzer]

So is it just safe to assume this stage is good and bad at the same time and different people will either like/dlislike this stage with Ike and depending on who you are and who you bring here it can eitherstand at a neutral/advantage/disadvantage stance for the Ike player/person?

Sarcastic moderator is sarcastically intellectual.

 

[Hoser]

Stop looking for Ike's advantages, he's a limited character and all of his advantages were found within the first 2 weeks of the game's release.

>.>
<.<

*looks at the chain grabs and grab release combos we just discovered*

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't get your logic Umbreon. I can't see how RC is any good for Ike. It's pretty annoying as hell for him to maneuver around because of limited mobility, and campers besides Snake and aerial fighters get a huge plus on this stage, while Ike is not a very good aerial fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

ike has chaingrabs? what are they? he has forward throw against a wall, I posted that here in brawl's first week. I don't know of any others? As for grab releases, I thought people had been doing them for months now?

snake sucks on this stage. snake wants to spend as much time on the ground as possible, and this stage prevents that.

ike's air game on the other hand is amazing. you have a disjointed hitbox that goes through all of the platforms with half of his attacks, routinely forces campers to move, and the stage goes at a slow enough pace that ike can easily keep up with it. The only real issue I see is around the pendulum, when you can be gimped as is moves away from you.

ike is one of the few characters in this game that can do aerials without fear of losing the range/priority contest, doesn't have to worry about trades, and can space well enough not to get punished out of shield upon landing. I would say that makes his air game above average, particularly on a stage that forces you to jump and land elsewhere almost constantly. rather than being annoyed at jumping, you should play as aggressive as possible on this stage, since it's pretty much the hardest one to punish ike on for his opponents.

 

[Hoser]

Over the past 5-6 days, we've made quite an advancement in Ike's meta game. All the details are in Light's topic "Ike's guaranteed Grab Releases" (Link is in my sig). Basically, we found a lot of grab release chains on a lot of characters (we actually found two on Gannon). We're still testing them though, and only some of them have been proven to be true chains (such as the ones on Gannon and Squirtle). We've also found a lot of true grab release combos, such as the Platform Air Release Sliding Up Smash on Meta Knight, and the new tech, Glacier Smash, which is an air release stutter stepped F-smash on Ice, or around wind (like the mill on PS1. (So far it's only been proven to work on Gannon and Squirtle, but that's all we've tested it on as well.)

Most of the grab release combos go into F-air, U-smash, Dash attack, Jab, Aether (Jiggs only so far), U-Tilt (You can infinite chain grab Wario if he wasted his 2nd jump, then end it with U-Tilt) walk off D-air (if it's a ledge ground release), Glacier Smash, and of course, the regrab.

Within the next month, we'll probably have them all figured out.

 

[Deleted member]

an advancement in his metagame would be to change his average tournament placings. Whether or not it does that remains to be seen.

Not to discredit your findings or anything.

all of that aside, I always counterpick at rainbow cruise, smashville, or frigate orpheon. I like them that much.

 

[Hoser]

I have no doubts it's going to do just that. It's only been about a week since we discovered them, so we really haven't had time to apply it to tournaments yet. We're going to upload some videos of them today, so people can see how they are done. Also, I'm going to test out the ground release to regrab chain on Meta Knight today (it's been tested by others, but I'm going to test it myself. And if possible, get frame data to confirm it.). I'm also going to test out the possibility of an air release running regrab on MK, like Marth has (this one may not be possible though, it's yet to have been tested at all I'm basing the theory off some very incomplete frame data).

 

[Ussi]

A2ZOMG, me and umbreon are comfortable in the air which is why we do good here

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm comfortable in the air too. (Look at me. I main Mario here). But I don't see how this would be a counterpick stage for Ike.

I know that people hardly choose this stage in the first place, which can give any Ike a good advantage if he knows what he's doing. But what if the other character is comfortable on RC too? Why should we factor out their advantages?

 

[Ussi]

Ike IMO has a great air game. So what ike is in the middle of moblity, he has RANGE and it's DISJOiNTED. Learn to abuse it. Plus you can abuse aether here. Since people can't stay on the ground, they ALWAYS are in the air which you can handle with a fair. Only ZSS, Link, and Samus are problems here since they outrange fair.

Oh I guess multi jump people benifit here but only MK has disjointed range so he's the only multi jumper that's bad to fight here.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm comfortable in the air too. (Look at me. I main Mario here). But I don't see how this would be a counterpick stage for Ike.

I know that people hardly choose this stage in the first place, which can give any Ike a good advantage if he knows what he's doing. But what if the other character is comfortable on RC too? Why should we factor out their advantages?

The only characters I can think of immediately that gain advantages here are MK and ROB. MK due to his sheer mobility, and ROB because nair/bair are totally obnoxious. Thankfully, I think most rob players hate this stage because it hinders their sidestep downsmash >_>

 

[MysticKenji]

The only characters I can think of immediately that gain advantages here are MK and ROB. MK due to his sheer mobility, and ROB because nair/bair are totally obnoxious. Thankfully, I think most rob players hate this stage because it hinders their sidestep downsmash >_>

I'd think that Kirby and G&W would be helped by this stage, too.

In any case, another thing I forgot is that Eruption kills super early on this stage due to the platform layout (flash charge kills Fox and anyone lighter than him at 0.0000%).

 

[Ussi]

fully charged is stronger at lower percents I believe.

You outrange G&W get used to it. But it does help G&W, you want to have a ground battle against him since Ike's ground game beats G&W. Kirby is iffy, i'm gonna look into that.

But for now! Next stage!

Like I just said, avoid taking Ganon to this stage. Ganon just loves destroying camping, and his aerials all outspeed and outdamage Ike's. In addition, if you're facing a good Ganon, he'll just Murder Choke you and ftilt you off the ledge you're on at the moment. This is a much better stage for Ganondorf than it is for Ike.

And so what? we out range Ganon and if you're facing a good Ike, he'll abuse his range on you. Balances out. Everyone has something to save themselves from range, but range still has its advantages.

 

[Kirk]

fully charged is stronger at lower percents I believe.

Depends where on the stage you are. Fully charge kills more horizontally while a flashed kills vertically.

As for brinstar...I've yet to play on this stage a whole lot, and I have been looking into getting better at it for a possible counterpick. So I'm interested to hear what everyone would have to say on this one.

 

[MysticKenji]

i love brinstar

*explanation later*

 

[•Col•]

"Me mind on fire -- Me soul on fire -- Feeling hot hot hot"

xD Lol, keep thinking of that song when I see the thread title...

Anyway.... You can Aether through the stage... D: And be careful, you can fall through the breakable floor part of the stage... Even if there are some there, I dunno how it happens though... xD

 

[HeroMystic]

Ike IMO has a great air game. So what ike is in the middle of moblity, he has RANGE and it's DISJOiNTED. Learn to abuse it. Plus you can abuse aether here. Since people can't stay on the ground, they ALWAYS are in the air which you can handle with a fair. Only ZSS, Link, and Samus are problems here since they outrange fair.

I do abuse my range.

I guess I'll just take your word for it and try it out once.

I any case for Brinstar, I like this stage. Plenty of Aethersliding, Diminishing returns for the two "pillars" and the breakable floor, and it's hard to get gimped here. Not to mention the ceiling is pretty low.

Not a solid counterpick stage for Ike, but good against other characters. I'd take chaingrab-happy people like DeDeDe here if Lylat Cruise is banned.

 

[XACE-K]

You always pick the wierdest pics Ussi....

- Brinstar is an okay CP against a lot of characters, probably in Ike's top five due to he can recover better, spiking through lava is awesome and it's small.

- Don't bring Snake here. I shouldn't explain why. If you don't know why, you really can't of obvious things.

- Don't split the stage into 2 parts or the platforms attached to the stage. It could harm Ike when may need to recover.

Yeah, that's all I can think of...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't like this stage. No real reason behind it, I just don't.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

an advancement in his metagame would be to change his average tournament placings. Whether or not it does that remains to be seen.

If this where true wouldn't it mean that the metagame is pretty complete and the its to early to ban MK argument wouldn't hold water.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

A character's metagame is NEVER done developing. It has to adapt to the changes in other character's metagames. A single change in one metagame has a domino effect on all of the others, which can cause a chain reaction in yet another change of a character's metagame by their attempts to counter the first change in the other character's metagame.

Anyways, enough of that headache to rap your head around.

Brinstar AKA Aetherslide land. Probably one of the few places you can use a grounded Aether safely. Nice platforms, spiking through lava. There aren't many situations where breaking the stage would be to your advantage, so just don't do it. When the lava only leaves the platforms uncovered, grab -> throw = set up to various moves. You know where they much land, take advantage of that fact. I don't remember how the blastzones are here.....

 

[Kinzer]

but if you try to get inside of her, she has much more faster aerials than you so don’t try to play her here due to the lack of speed AND range. But remember! Be comfortable! Not everyone likes it here ;o keep that as an advantage always.

Oh yeah...these lines alone speak for themselves.

/pervert

As for Brinstar, I don't have any idea what can be done here. Maybe that Ike is much harder to gimp kill, the ceiling is extremly low, the pillars/(spores?) can delay your attacks just like the statues in CS, and there's lots of Aethersliding potential. The lava can save you as well as set up combos for opponents after they've been knocked up into the air, if you have the chance afetr they're near you, swat them with an aerial!

I would discourage bringing people like Luigi and other people who can easily kill vertically. That's all I can say for Brinstar seeing as how I have yet to fight often on this stage...

 

[MysticKenji]

I don't remember how the blastzones are here.....

They're close.

 

[akkon888]

Lol at the pic of brinstar. I think it is an alright stage for Ike, it is almost exactly like Castle Siege 1. This is very variable though. When some of the platforms blow out, it gets much harder for Ike, but when those egg things on the floor drop out, it gets easier because you can crouch and most projectiles will not hit you. Don't bring link, his projectiles usually always hit, and the platforms are level. Also don't bring Pit, the controllable arrows can really kill you here. It would be hard for MK to last, his Mach Tornado could fall off anywhere, his low range attacks are useless with such a slope, and there is basically no way to aerial with him, because Ike could Usmash it it would end.

By the way people, check out Forum Games area. There is a game called Hurt and Heal 4.0 that is coming out soon, and we always keep getting owned by Peach. Kinzer knows about it, you people should too.