I foresee a controller problem for future tournaments

[The Dragon]

until the find a way to do 0 interference with wireless, i'm almost possitive there going to keep using plug and play controllers..

 

[Deleted member]

Quoted right from the Dojo:



And no, I don't think he said that just for the rumble.

If the control theme was inferior, I doubt he would have kept it.

I never said it was inferior...you people love making **** up. I said I think the main reason he kept it was too many people would have complained. I don't think any of the control modes are inferior besides just using the Wiimote, but at least everyone has the option to use what they want/like.

 

[BigRick]

Nintendo seems to have stopped production of Gamecube controllers. This will be a problem because over time it will be harder to find a replacement for a controller that starts to go bad. Also what about the people that already sold there GC controllers or didn't have a GC to begin with? So bottom line is if nintendo doesn't continue production then using a GC controller will become not an option anymore. Tournaments like mlg ban wireless controllers...so this can pose a problem....

well if wireless is only option then ull have to unban wireless

 

[The Dragon]

well if wireless is only option then ull have to unban wireless

wireless isn't the only option because you can purchase gc controllers at there on-line store for $25 + shipping.. so they wont unban wireless

 

[MookieRah]

also notice that the wiimote d-pad, by default, just has a bunch of crap mapped to it that you can already do with your left hand. so heres where it gets better. if you can map movement controls to that d-pad, you just opened a whole world of possibilities.

That's nifty, but you yourself mentioned the time it takes to move your thumb around in your post yet you don't acknowledge that the dpad of the wiimote would require a lot of thumb movement. You are assuming that you can map the tilts specifically with the d-pad. I don't see any indication from the screens that would map a specific attack as a button, so that is kind of putting a lot up to assumption.

That said, I can't really refute the fact that having all movement and shielding mapped to the left hand and attacks mapped to the right is pretty efficient. Still, as it stands, unless you are playing Fox or Falco, there is no need to have to resort to such means to control your character.

I will withdraw my statement that the Wiimote + nunchuck is inferior to the cube remote in light of that informative post.

 

[Nothingman]

That's nifty, but you yourself mentioned the time it takes to move your thumb around in your post yet you don't acknowledge that the dpad of the wiimote would require a lot of thumb movement. You are assuming that you can map the tilts specifically with the d-pad. I don't see any indication from the screens that would map a specific attack as a button, so that is kind of putting a lot up to assumption.

Well, it shouldnt be too much thumb movement, your right thumb would only move between the mini d-pad and the A button (special in this case). since specials are rarely used in comparison to normals, it wouldnt be much of a problem.

but i AM assuming that you can map movement to that tiny d-pad, even though theres no clear indication that you can. but i hope i hope i hope, as it would make control so much better.

you're also right about it not making much of a difference unless you were a very fast character, but in the competitive scene, everyone seems to be one. lets all hope that brawl isnt also balanced this way.

 

[Tony_]

I just thought of something. The Wiimotes COULD be used simply for control storage, rather than waste time setting up the controls yourself, they would be ready right on the spot.

 

[MookieRah]

but in the competitive scene, everyone seems to be one.

Marth, Sheik, and Peach don't require the crazy tech skills, and they are extremely viable. CF is also one that doesn't require it either.

 

[edde]

oh my, i should starts worrying, my wavebird is almost 6 years old... and some buttons are starting to fail ;/

 

[Sliq]

Marth, Sheik, and Peach don't require the crazy tech skills, and they are extremely viable. CF is also one that doesn't require it either.

You forgot Jigglypuff.

'You wouldn't like me when I'm angry...'

 

[Chi's Finest]

I just thought of something. The Wiimotes COULD be used simply for control storage, rather than waste time setting up the controls yourself, they would be ready right on the spot.

They let you set up your cutom controls on the spot right there. It only took a few seconds. But once all the gamertag names got full, you had to go and edit and old one, which also took a few seconds. Before each match, both teams are spending a minute or two putting in their custom options and names.

well if wireless is only option then ull have to unban wireless

But honestly, does anyone here actually picture another Nintendo game besides Smash getting picked up on an MLG circuit?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

They let you set up your cutom controls on the spot right there. It only took a few seconds. But once all the gamertag names got full, you had to go and edit and old one, which also took a few seconds. Before each match, both teams are spending a minute or two putting in their custom options and names.




But honestly, does anyone here actually picture another Nintendo game besides Smash getting picked up on an MLG circuit?

Mario Kart?

 

[Chi's Finest]

Mario Kart?

hmmmm..... Possibly. But then again Racing games aren't too popular with MLG. I know they had GT3 a few years back, but dropped it.

 

[Sliq]

Mario Kart?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Chi's Finest]

Actually, MArio Kart probably wouldn't make it.

They're bringing Gears of War Back, Halo 3, Call of Duty 4 most likely, Brawl and maybe Shadowrun even though I hated that game.

That's 5 good competitors right there for the 2008 circuit.

 

[evilflame101]

Nintendo seems to have stopped production of Gamecube controllers. This will be a problem because over time it will be harder to find a replacement for a controller that starts to go bad. Also what about the people that already sold there GC controllers or didn't have a GC to begin with? So bottom line is if nintendo doesn't continue production then using a GC controller will become not an option anymore. Tournaments like mlg ban wireless controllers...so this can pose a problem....

GCN controllers and controller extensions

You can get them online... I plan on getting them here.

 

[AlphaZealot]

However I do think only allowing wireless is extremely stupid and I wouldn't waste my time participating in such limited play. Ban items, ban stages, ban controllers, no thanks. There will be nothing left soon.

I'm confused, do you want wireless controllers or not? The funny thing about tournaments is that all these rules happen to benefit the novice player far more than the competitive player. The competitive player, if they were allowed to use wireless controllers, would probably 1)make sure he had a new set of batteries in for each tournament and 2)would practice syncing on his own time. The novice player would 1)not think about the batteries and then complain if they lost a match because their controller malfunctioned 2)complain that they lost a match because not all their button inputs were accepted and 3)wouldn't know how the sync the controller in the first place. I own a wii and I've synced my controller maybe a total of 10 times, ever. I've also played with many people, it is a very, very rare case where someone actually knows how to sync the controller correctly the first time and it doesn't take minutes to figure out. I know I don't know how to do it, and I know many of the people I've played with don't know how to do it. Having to deal with this issue alone at tournaments should be enough to not use them, even if you ignore the FACT that the signals will be dropped, crossed or interupted.

Back to why the rules benefit the novice more than the competitive.

A novice versus a competitive on Hyrule, with items, 4 stock, 8 minute time limit. The novice chooses link, because thats his favorite characters and he can UPB all his friends. The competitive chooses Fox, because he knows better. The competitive play gets the first kill. Then runs. There is no sudden death because he will have 4 stock but the novice will have 3. Does anyone honestly believe the novice will feel the competitive player won a real victory? Don't you think the novice will WANT rules after that?

The point is simply to show why rules are often nessasary. If anything, its for the worser players protection.

 

[Erimir]

but i AM assuming that you can map movement to that tiny d-pad, even though theres no clear indication that you can. but i hope i hope i hope, as it would make control so much better.

you're also right about it not making much of a difference unless you were a very fast character, but in the competitive scene, everyone seems to be one. lets all hope that brawl isnt also balanced this way.

I don't think it would be viable to use all the D-pad buttons for the wiimote+nunchuk, unless it's for something you don't do often. Up on the D-pad is too far away from the A button to switch easily. If you think the 4 D-pad buttons are too tempting, I could see using them and forgoing the A button, but switching between D-up and A is too difficult. This is why in games like Metroid the only button on the D-pad that they use for regular controls is D-down. All I know is that if there's any reason you would need to switch between D-up and A quickly, that control scheme will be too awkward to do that.

Well, if you could map the smash attacks to the D-pad and leave the A button for regular attacks, that could work, maybe. And while it feels slightly awkward, using just the D-pad and ignoring the A button would probably work fine.

But you can definitely map something useful to D-down (maybe grab/throw would be better than shield), and possibly to the sides as well.

This is just my personal feeling from holding the wiimote and seeing how easy it is to switch between the two buttons. Maybe it's different for you if you have significantly larger hands than I do, since mine aren't particularly large.

ETA: Oh, and I find it more likely than not that you can't map movement to other buttons. I don't see an option to reassign the left joystick on the GameCube or even the Classic Controller (which is more symmetrical), which would actually make sense if you wanted to switch the function of the left joystick and the C-stick/right joystick. Maybe they just won't let you reassign the left joystick, but you can assign movement to the right stick as well. But you also don't see an option for selecting the whole D-pad, so unless you map individual directions, I find it unlikely that you can remap movement to any of the D-pads. But maybe. I won't be surprised if it's not an option at all tho.

 

[Problem2]

This issue about, bringing your own controllers could be resolved by having at each station:
1 Wii
2 Wiimotes

Players are required to bring any other attachments such as Nun chucks, Classic Controllers, or if they want to, bring GCN controllers themselves.

Each Wii should have a completed save file of Smash Bros with all common types of Special controls preset and appropriately nicknamed. Obviously popular styles such as no up-jump and arrangements of the nun chuck will be included.

Complaints about batteries should not be tolerated. If you're worried about batteries, bring your own. (this should not desynchronize the controllers).

The only problem with these rules is that in order for this to apply for Doubles, you need twice the number of Wiimotes. That can't be cheap.

 

[Kyo Kusanagi]

As long as they are official nintendo controllers they're shouldn't be any problems at any tournys and as of batteries are concerend before and while your at the tournament turn the wii on and check your battery meter, like someone said its your responsibility to make sure your wii remotes are ok, but if you want to avoid all of these complications just get used to the classic wired gamecube controller.

Kyo has spoken!!!

 

[Irow]

I think most competitive players will still stick with the Gamecube controller. I mean, you don't run the risk of interference that wireless options would. However, I think the Wiimote-Nunchuck combo would work the best out of the wireless options.

B=Normal Attack
A=Special
C=Jump
Z=Shield
A+B=Grab
D-Pad Down=Smash, I'm pretty sure that if you would do a smash in a direction that you hold the analog stick.

 

[Chi's Finest]

As long as they are official nintendo controllers they're shouldn't be any problems at any tournys and as of batteries are concerend before and while your at the tournament turn the wii on and check your battery meter, like someone said its your responsibility to make sure your wii remotes are ok, but if you want to avoid all of these complications just get used to the classic wired gamecube controller.

Kyo has spoken!!!

MLG is not gonna have all those Wii's and Wiimotes there. Plus with the batteries, that is another issue with the controllers. The controllers are being used for hours and hours on the 1st day before the competition even begins, for warm-ups and free play. Everyday there is warm ups and tourny play. You know how many batteries they would need even if they allowed that, or else they would have to buy their own charge kits.

Bottom line: Nothing will work/be allowed besides GCN controllers.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm confused, do you want wireless controllers or not? The funny thing about tournaments is that all these rules happen to benefit the novice player far more than the competitive player. The competitive player, if they were allowed to use wireless controllers, would probably 1)make sure he had a new set of batteries in for each tournament and 2)would practice syncing on his own time. The novice player would 1)not think about the batteries and then complain if they lost a match because their controller malfunctioned 2)complain that they lost a match because not all their button inputs were accepted and 3)wouldn't know how the sync the controller in the first place. I own a wii and I've synced my controller maybe a total of 10 times, ever. I've also played with many people, it is a very, very rare case where someone actually knows how to sync the controller correctly the first time and it doesn't take minutes to figure out. I know I don't know how to do it, and I know many of the people I've played with don't know how to do it. Having to deal with this issue alone at tournaments should be enough to not use them, even if you ignore the FACT that the signals will be dropped, crossed or interupted.

Back to why the rules benefit the novice more than the competitive.

A novice versus a competitive on Hyrule, with items, 4 stock, 8 minute time limit. The novice chooses link, because thats his favorite characters and he can UPB all his friends. The competitive chooses Fox, because he knows better. The competitive play gets the first kill. Then runs. There is no sudden death because he will have 4 stock but the novice will have 3. Does anyone honestly believe the novice will feel the competitive player won a real victory? Don't you think the novice will WANT rules after that?

The point is simply to show why rules are often nessasary. If anything, its for the worser players protection.

That was a HORRIBLE typo from me. I meant to say not having wireless controllers sucks in my opinion. I think both wired and wireless should be allowed. And the things you mention about the batteries, novices, pros, etc. I don't really care. If someone runs out of batteries that is their fault and they can't call the match based on that. They can complain all they want but no one will care. If a car runs out of gas in a race do they do it over? No.

 

[kashikomarimashita]

I wonder if any one could become real proficient with the wireless controller, at least good ebnough to want to use it at a tournament. I mean, I know alot of people will be playing Smash for the first time on the Wii and use the wireless, but it just seems so inferior to the Gamecube controller. So there maybe so few people showing up at tourneys with wireless controllers, that its use wont be warranted. Its only upside is saving button configs.

 

[Chi's Finest]

Yea, I really want to use my Wiimote/Nunchuck for playing Smash, but I knowe for MLG and other tournys I would need a GC one. Maybe I'll start out playing with the Nunchuck for a while and switch to GC controller afteer I stop playing casually in the begining.

 

[Xenesis]

I'm surprised most people here haven't realised that if you have one controller that's already synced to the Wii, you can open up the home menu, go to 'Reconnect' and press 1+2 on ANY controller to add them to the Wii in order temporarily, right? You don't even need to sync them.

 

[Chi's Finest]

I'm surprised most people here haven't realised that if you have one controller that's already synced to the Wii, you can open up the home menu, go to 'Reconnect' and press 1+2 on ANY controller to add them to the Wii in order temporarily, right? You don't even need to sync them.

Not when you have 30 stations, 30 Wii's and 60-120 controllers doing the same thing all at once.

 

[Xenesis]

I'm just saying, 5-20 seconds to connect is a heck of a lot faster than a minute or two to sync permanently.

 

[Sliq]

This issue about, bringing your own controllers could be resolved by having at each station:
1 Wii
2 Wiimotes

Players are required to bring any other attachments such as Nun chucks, Classic Controllers, or if they want to, bring GCN controllers themselves.

Each Wii should have a completed save file of Smash Bros with all common types of Special controls preset and appropriately nicknamed. Obviously popular styles such as no up-jump and arrangements of the nun chuck will be included.

Complaints about batteries should not be tolerated. If you're worried about batteries, bring your own. (this should not desynchronize the controllers).

The only problem with these rules is that in order for this to apply for Doubles, you need twice the number of Wiimotes. That can't be cheap.

Are you going to leave YOUR wiimote unattended for complete strangers to use? Didn't think so.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Too many of you are thinking about this from the player's point of view and not about the hosts point of view. I've hosted some decent sized tournaments. No, I didn't have hundreds, but I had enough to make me rethink some of my policies. Rule changes always upset players at first, but then when they see how smoothly things run, they slowly stop complaining.

 

[Card]

Not when you have 30 stations, 30 Wii's and 60-120 controllers doing the same thing all at once.

Nevermind just issue with syncing up the controllers...
Think about the Desync issues once those 60-120 controllers have been synced up!

Just because next generation consoles work off of Wireless technology, does not mean that it is the optimal setting in a tournament or other multi-user environment.

I've worked as a Game Tester for over a year now, and let me give you just a glimpse of my experience. In the lab that I work at, there is probably 40-50 PS3's all hooked up and being used by different testers. Now PS3 Controllers use Bluetooth technology for it's wireless, the exact same wireless technology as Wiimotes (So I am assuming they would react similarly). I can tell you for a fact, that desyncs DO occur when many wireless PS3 controllers are being used within the vicinity. I can assume that it would be the same number of consoles located at a large event like MLG.

As a tester, it isn't a huge issue, because what ends up happening is that whatever buttons you were inputting the moment it desyncs, will be constantly repeated until the controller resyncs. For example, If you were holding left and then a desync occured, your character would continue running left for approximately 5-10 seconds until the controller resyncs. Now... If I was at a tournament, with money on the line, and my character suddenly started running left for 5-10 seconds... you can bet I'll be extremely pissed as I walk off the stage to my death with nothing I can do to prevent it. I can say safely that if I play with my wireless controller at work, I'll desync probably 3-4 times for about 5-10 seconds each, in the span of an 8 hour work day. This applies to almost all testers I work with, and they all complain because there have been times where it has caused character death. This is just unacceptable for a tournament.


Desyncs DO occur when many Bluetooth Wireless Controllers are in use
Desyncs WILL occur when Wireless Controllers are allowed at large tournaments
Anyone who believes that "Wireless is how they were designed and how we should be playing" has NEVER been put in an environment where there are 50+ Wireless Controllers active all within each other.

and thus leads me to...

Desyncs SHOULD and hopefully WILL be avoided, because Wireless Controllers will be BANNED!




Game Cube controllers is not only the safest solution to desync (since it is impossible to Desync) but it is also the most efficient solution in terms of setting up (Literally Plug-and-Play). A variety of users have posted various places to go and buy Game Cube controllers. I myself have found Game Cube controllers new at EB Games for 15-20$, and I already purchased 3 Controllers for Brawl.

You could also try asking Nintendo for a Wired Wiimote by starting all sorts of petitions and what not. Chances are it won't happen though, because Nintendo did not put a battery pack for the Wiimote, which is probably the biggest disadvantage for the Wii. The PS3 controller can just use a USB cable to turn their wireless controllers into wired, and I believe the X360 works the same way. The Wiimote on the other hand, has no wired capabilities.


--------------------------------------------------
Bottomline:
Want to Smash competitively in a huge tournament?
Learn to play with a Game Cube controller.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Card wins.
Double Flawless.
F A T A L I T Y

 

[MookieRah]

Holy **** @ Card. MVP in this thread. WINNAR OF TEH INTERNETZ!

 

[Deleted member]

I say we just ban everything.

 

[The Dragon]

C-C-C-C-C-C-C- COMBO BREAKER.... Card wins. PERFERCT!

 

[MookieRah]

I say we just ban everything.

Are you ignorant or just stupid? I don't care if this is "flaming" but WHAT DO YOU WANT??? We provide you with CLEAR CUT reasons for EVERYTHING we ban and you just have to be sarcastic and stubborn and refuse to acknowledge that we have **** good reasons. IF you were someone who just came in and said that I wouldn't care, but you have been "debating" (LOLZ, if you can call it that) since early on in the thread.

Seriously, learn to learn and not simply stay as close minded as you were when you started in this thread -_-. Honestly, I revoked my statement about the wii + nunchuck cause I realized that I was wrong about that. I don't see that coming from you at all.

 

[Cless]

ITT: people disregarding first hand accounts and scientific proof.

Seriously people, come on.

 

[The Dragon]

I say we just ban everything.

wtf kinda post is this why even waste the time to write this garbage, please give thought to your posts at least. Stop whinning about everything that doesn't fit into you safety bubble. Life is like that, learn to deal with it ffs

 

[SeriousWB]

First hand accounts and scientific proof are nothing when compared to faith!

 

[Cless]

See, at least this guy is trying to be funny.