I foresee a controller problem for future tournaments

[Midboss]

I've never looked into one for the N64 controller, but RedOctane might make one? I've got their 3-way adapter for the PS2's controller so I can use it for emulators and PC games, and their hardware seems pretty solid.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I would need to buy a new N64 controller because I heard something about the adapters only working on some of the newer N64 controllers like the Donkey Kong yellow one and newer.

 

[MookieRah]

It took me a while, but I found it. Here you go Shadow, Merry Christmas.
http://shop.raphnet.net/products/n64_to_wii/index.php?category=Cable

 

[Deleted member]

It took me a while, but I found it. Here you go Shadow, Merry Christmas.
http://shop.raphnet.net/products/n64_to_wii/index.php?category=Cable

That site looks a little shady, is it definitely legit? If so this is a dream come true. I was scared for a moment when I saw the L & Z buttons switched but they have a button you can hold to switch them back, genius! Ironic how much love and hate is going back and forth in this thread, but I think we've all simmered down now...half a difference of opinions and half a misunderstanding of what we were all trying to say. Thanks.

Now I just have to ask...when is Smash Bros. coming to the Virtual Console!? He should have given that to us on Dec. 3...

 

[Chi's Finest]

I don't see why you have to check every single station. Check the stations within X space of you. If there aren't a dozen or more wiimotes, you're presumably fine. I've never seen any problems using four wiimotes between two consoles before, so I think the threshold is being blown a bit out of proportion here.

Have you ever been to MLG? If you get a station on the corner, the opposite corner of that game's area is about 60 feet. That means even in a corner, you still have to check over half the stations.

 

[Deleted member]

Have you ever been to MLG? If you get a station on the corner, the opposite corner of that game's area is about 60 feet. That means even in a corner, you still have to check over half the stations.

The Bluetooth signal in the Wiimote is only good for about 30 feet.

 

[Midboss]

I've never been arguing to allow them in a massive event like MLG. But, I'll bite and say that if you'd have to check over half the stations because they're in close enough proximity to really pose a threat, then checking over half of them probably isn't a huge issue, since they're that close. Even so, I'm not so sure you'd even have to go around checking. If you get ANY chance at ALL to play friendlies in the venue before the actual tournament, you'll be able to get a feel for whether or not you need to use a wired controller during the real thing. But a problem probably isn't going to arise just because of a dozen wiis within range of yours with maybe a dozen wiimotes between them and the rest wired, I'm sure. The point that ShadowXOR and I have both been trying to make is that MOST players will use wired controllers, it's only a few oddballs that are going to want to use a wiimote enough to accept the responsibility for 'unfair' losses as a result.

 

[Deleted member]

Midboss sums it up for me again.

 

[Chi's Finest]

The Bluetooth signal in the Wiimote is only good for about 30 feet.

I know... and?

I've never been arguing to allow them in a massive event like MLG. But, I'll bite and say that if you'd have to check over half the stations because they're in close enough proximity to really pose a threat, then checking over half of them probably isn't a huge issue, since they're that close. Even so, I'm not so sure you'd even have to go around checking. If you get ANY chance at ALL to play friendlies in the venue before the actual tournament, you'll be able to get a feel for whether or not you need to use a wired controller during the real thing. But a problem probably isn't going to arise just because of a dozen wiis within range of yours with maybe a dozen wiimotes between them and the rest wired, I'm sure. The point that ShadowXOR and I have both been trying to make is that MOST players will use wired controllers, it's only a few oddballs that are going to want to use a wiimote enough to accept the responsibility for 'unfair' losses as a result.

With the 100 different things you guys want MLG to do to have wireless contorller, isn't it a lot easier if we just keep the ban on wireless and play the game fairly and smoothly? Rather than with problems, sometimes impossibilities, and extra effort/time?

 

[Deleted member]

I know... and?



With the 100 different things you guys want MLG to do to have wireless contorller, isn't it a lot easier if we just keep the ban on wireless and play the game fairly and smoothly? Rather than with problems, sometimes impossibilities, and extra effort/time?

It won't cause any problems, impossibilities, or extra time/effort. We have already said if there is a problem, it's on us. If we lose a match because of some lag/desync then that is our loss, no extra time wasted.

As for the Bluetooth you said if someone was 60 feet away from me and the Bluetooth only goes 30 feet...so if someone was 60 feet away it wouldn't matter...

You're just being unreasonable about this. Why don't we not take the extra time or effort for custom controls when they could save EVEN MORE time? You just apparently want to exclude as many people and options as possible. This really isn't a big deal and you are trying your hardest to make it a big deal even after the rest of us have come to an agreement.

 

[Chi's Finest]

It won't cause any problems, impossibilities, or extra time/effort. We have already said if there is a problem, it's on us. If we lose a match because of some lag/desync then that is our loss, no extra time wasted.

As for the Bluetooth you said if someone was 60 feet away from me and the Bluetooth only goes 30 feet...so if someone was 60 feet away it wouldn't matter...

problems: possibilities of batteries/ syncing problems

impossibilities: having multiple remotes near each other.

extra time/effort is performed if you guys would have multiple Wiimotes near each other. They would basically have to stall the whole tournament and wait until th chance that one person with a wiimote can play in one corner, and the ONLY othe rperosn allowed to use on is playing on the exact opposite corner, and they would have to go and check eevry single station between them.

And accepting responsibilites for these problems is just idiotic. Don't come to a tournament if you want to allow unfairness to happen. Stay home and go play items on Brinstar Depths if you want that.

 

[Deleted member]

problems: possibilities of batteries/ syncing problems

impossibilities: having multiple remotes near each other.

extra time/effort is performed if you guys would have multiple Wiimotes near each other. They would basically have to stall the whole tournament and wait until th chance that one person with a wiimote can play in one corner, and the ONLY othe rperosn allowed to use on is playing on the exact opposite corner, and they would have to go and check eevry single station between them.

And accepting responsibilites for these problems is just idiotic. Don't come to a tournament if you want to allow unfairness to happen. Stay home and go play items on Brinstar Depths if you want that.

They wouldn't have to do that. Many Wiimotes can be played in the same area as each other. You are just hallucinating. I personally have had as many as 16 Wiimotes in the same room on four different Wii's with no problems and I doubt there would even be 16 near each other knowing how few people use them.

You have this strange fantasy about only having one Wiimote in each corner of the room. And how exactly is wireless unfair? If I choose to take the risks associated it is perfectly fair. You will sit there in your closed off world with your wired controller hating on everything and it won't affect you.

Stop trying to tell other people how to play the game.

 

[Midboss]

That's just the thing I started with Chi's Finest. I'm NOT saying MLG should allow it. It's too big a tournament for it. I elaborated there for the sake of argument, to go along with you. I am AGAINST allowing wiimotes in a tournament of that scale, given the vast number of entrants compared to your average tournament. But I'd really like to know why it would be a problem for the tournament if a potentially tiny minority of players end up getting wiped out because their controllers desynced or they forgot to charge their batteries, if anything, it'd be a boon, as their quick (or even instant) loss ends their match sooner, and they'll probably bring a wired controller next time.

You've completely misunderstood me, I think. Playing with the wiimote in a tournament is a bad idea, especially given that if enough other people are doing it you'll get into trouble. It's a bad idea because if any problems occur with your controller due to low batteries or desyncing errors, there should be no do-overs. Sure, it's cold, but that's just common sense. You chose to risk using a controller that could potentially fail you, so it's just as much your loss as if you wavedashed right into a smash attack you saw coming from miles away. My stance is more or less this: don't outright ban them unless they prove to truly hang up the entire tournament. Barring that kind of problem, let people willing to risk it, risk it, until (if it does pose problems for them) they decide they've had enough, and start bringing a wired controller instead.

I just don't see why 3/4 controller types should be banned to protect players that choose to use them. I don't particularly see why you'd opt to use a controller that might fail you, but it makes less sense for the tournament rules not to let you be an idiot. Do the tournaments bar you from entering and playing Pichu despite the fact that in all likelihood you're going to be slaughtered horribly, and quite likely as a rather direct result of playing a character with so many drawbacks? ...no offense to the few Pichu mains out there.

 

[Deleted member]

Midboss: I'm not sure how many times we can continue repeating ourselves. It's getting pretty old and he obviously isn't understanding.

 

[Midboss]

I don't feel a need for personal attacks either way in this little debate, but there does seem to be some misunderstanding or overlooking of points going on. But I can see both sides of this, I just personally think that by letting the losses rest squarely on the shoulders of the player who decided to go with a Wiimote, the already slim portion of the community planning to use Wiimotes would likely stick to Gamecube controllers during tournaments just because they know if something goes wrong its their fault. Actually, I don't think the 'added rules' to allow wiimotes would be so much new rules as common sense. As is, if your controller is malfunctioning and you have to stall the set to run off and find/grab a spare, I'd assume you'd lose the first point of the set, or even forfeit the entire set?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not attacking anything, he isn't understanding what we're saying. Either we're saying it wrong or he's reading it wrong. It appears that everyone that is going to agree already has.

 

[Midboss]

Yeah, but continuing to try and elaborate is good for my post count! ...oh no, I've been found out.

But seriously, I'd say we should lightly frown upon bringing Wiimotes, but accept them until they're universally proven to cause tournaments to run late, which simply won't happen if players that are adamant enough on using their Wiimote are required to accept that they can't get a do-over if their batteries die or their wiimote desyncs, which forcing them to do isn't hard. All it takes is an extra sentence (or if you want to go all out and get REALLY FANCY, a whole paragraph, ooh, shiny) in the rules to clarify. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse, right?

 

[Deleted member]

As you say, I see no reason why it should be banned until it is proven detrimental to a tournament. Any risks a player takes is on himself.

 

[Chi's Finest]

That's just the thing I started with Chi's Finest. I'm NOT saying MLG should allow it. It's too big a tournament for it. I elaborated there for the sake of argument, to go along with you. I am AGAINST allowing wiimotes in a tournament of that scale, given the vast number of entrants compared to your average tournament. But I'd really like to know why it would be a problem for the tournament if a potentially tiny minority of players end up getting wiped out because their controllers desynced or they forgot to charge their batteries, if anything, it'd be a boon, as their quick (or even instant) loss ends their match sooner, and they'll probably bring a wired controller next time.

You've completely misunderstood me, I think. Playing with the wiimote in a tournament is a bad idea, especially given that if enough other people are doing it you'll get into trouble. It's a bad idea because if any problems occur with your controller due to low batteries or desyncing errors, there should be no do-overs. Sure, it's cold, but that's just common sense. You chose to risk using a controller that could potentially fail you, so it's just as much your loss as if you wavedashed right into a smash attack you saw coming from miles away. My stance is more or less this: don't outright ban them unless they prove to truly hang up the entire tournament. Barring that kind of problem, let people willing to risk it, risk it, until (if it does pose problems for them) they decide they've had enough, and start bringing a wired controller instead.

I just don't see why 3/4 controller types should be banned to protect players that choose to use them. I don't particularly see why you'd opt to use a controller that might fail you, but it makes less sense for the tournament rules not to let you be an idiot. Do the tournaments bar you from entering and playing Pichu despite the fact that in all likelihood you're going to be slaughtered horribly, and quite likely as a rather direct result of playing a character with so many drawbacks? ...no offense to the few Pichu mains out there.

Ok, maybe it can work if you have a local tournament with 2 Wii's using pre-synced remotes, but not in anything other than a very small tournament.

The 3/4 thing doesn't matter much because nearly NO ONE has a wired 360 controller, yet every one goes out and buys a brand new one JUST for the tournament.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok, maybe it can work if you have a local tournament with 2 Wii's using pre-synced remotes, but not in anything other than a very small tournament.

The 3/4 thing doesn't matter much because nearly NO ONE has a wired 360 controller, yet every one goes out and buys a brand new one JUST for the tournament.

The wired 360 controller is the same as the wireless though.

With the Wii you are banning three out of the four controller configurations. We're talking about new/optional ways to play that may be better for people. If there was a wired version of all of the controllers then fine, make everyone use wired. But there isn't so you shouldn't gimp everyones control options.

Not to mention there can be way more than two Wii's with no interference, and the Wiimotes don't need to be pre-synced.

 

[Chi's Finest]

The wired 360 controller is the same as the wireless though.

With the Wii you are banning three out of the four controller configurations. We're talking about new/optional ways to play that may be better for people. If there was a wired version of all of the controllers then fine, make everyone use wired. But there isn't so you shouldn't gimp everyones control options.

Not to mention there can be way more than two Wii's with no interference, and the Wiimotes don't need to be pre-synced.

Yes, it is possible to have more, but having them not presynced or adding more Wiis to the equation causes a lot more work and increases controller problems.

 

[Midboss]

You're still operating under the assumption there will actually be a lot of wiimotes in use, Chi's Finest. We're saying that they should be allowed in the beginning at least, to make sure there will. There's no reason banning them if only 5 people would use them anyway, now, is there? You really blow the threshold for interference out of proportion, worse than anyone else in this thread has, in fact, you nearly make it sound like I should reconsider even buying a Wii, and even forego Brawl, because CLEARLY my Wiimote is going to cause interference with itself and cause me to desync while playing alone with just one wiimote and one console within a good 10 miles.

What we're saying is: Temporary syncing presumably takes about the same amount of time as setting up your name and controls, if not less. If you desync, or your batteries fail on you, you don't get a rematch. No hang-ups for the tournament as a whole, only problems for the VERY few who choose to use a wiimote.

I'm really starting to see why ShadowXOR's frustrated enough to stoop to halfway attacking you.

Edit: I really fail to see how not using pre-synched Wiimotes 'adds more work', given that players will still be customizing their button configuration and entering their names, while using a Wiimote allows you to simply import them after synching up. I fail harder to see how that's going to hurt anyone but the guy using the wiimote. At most, it'll probably take thirty seconds to a minute longer. If someone runs too long trying to get synchronized with the Wii, then just give the first point of the set to their opponent. And not to mention this 'work' is for the player, and not the tournament officials.

 

[Cless]

Shadow, I grew up using the N64 controller too, but I held it weird. I didn't think I did until I saw everyone else held it differently. Lemme rephrase what I said though, it's like the Gamecube controller is made to play Melee, not Smash in general.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

This arguement seems very odd to me. Seems alot of people are complaining about having to sync up their controlers betweens each fight. Well, especialy since there isn't any 3rd party wiimotes yet, each console at a tournement should have 2 pre-synced wiimotes. Were would be no problem with this if all remotes are synced properly because of a few reasons.

1) if you choose to use the wiimote, nunchuc, or classic then you could bring your own batteries and switch them into the controller, thus thining the chances of the battery dieing (unless you bring used or undercharged ones but, whos fualt would that be?)

2) if the nunchuc or classic is chosen as your prefered controller, bring your own to hook up to the pre-synced wiimote. If wiimote alone is chosen then, well... there it is? hurray?

3) Befor fights you need to enter your name most of the time and there you can change the controler you would use, both taking less time then trying to sync a new controler each time. And if you feel the need to costumize the inputs then you could always memorise how you like to for quick entry.

4) assuming you are at a large scale tourny, a group of 3-4 consoles could be clumped togather, having multiple 'groups' about 30 feet apart to keep controlers from mixing. Again this is assuming you're at a very large tourny.

5) and in the end if all you are is grossed out by using a controler someone has sweated on and gunked up, bring wet wipes

On a side note if you want to use a gc controler then yes, a wireless may be a bad idea if at a large gathering. If these radio wireless controlers are allowed however and you can't get a WaveBird there are 3rd party alternatives (MadCatz etc), or maybe even ThrustMasters T wireless Classic ( http://gear.ign.com/articles/838/838868p1.html ). But the again, a wired gc might just be easier

EDIT: I know some of my post has been touched on before, so just think of this as a sum of the logical solutions found on this thread

 

[Midboss]

Wavebirds are banned for good reason already. Wiimotes haven't been given their fair shake yet, though, seeing as Brawl isn't even out. We're not saying that they shouldn't be banned ever, just that we shouldn't be planning to ban them yet.

 

[Chi's Finest]

You're still operating under the assumption there will actually be a lot of wiimotes in use, Chi's Finest. We're saying that they should be allowed in the beginning at least, to make sure there will. There's no reason banning them if only 5 people would use them anyway, now, is there? You really blow the threshold for interference out of proportion, worse than anyone else in this thread has, in fact, you nearly make it sound like I should reconsider even buying a Wii, and even forego Brawl, because CLEARLY my Wiimote is going to cause interference with itself and cause me to desync while playing alone with just one wiimote and one console within a good 10 miles.

What we're saying is: Temporary syncing presumably takes about the same amount of time as setting up your name and controls, if not less. If you desync, or your batteries fail on you, you don't get a rematch. No hang-ups for the tournament as a whole, only problems for the VERY few who choose to use a wiimote.

I'm really starting to see why ShadowXOR's frustrated enough to stoop to halfway attacking you.

Edit: I really fail to see how not using pre-synched Wiimotes 'adds more work', given that players will still be customizing their button configuration and entering their names, while using a Wiimote allows you to simply import them after synching up. I fail harder to see how that's going to hurt anyone but the guy using the wiimote. At most, it'll probably take thirty seconds to a minute longer. If someone runs too long trying to get synchronized with the Wii, then just give the first point of the set to their opponent. And not to mention this 'work' is for the player, and not the tournament officials.

Agreed that syncing doesn't take as much time as manually putting the controls in, if needed. But each Wii would have to do it once at a time, and that's where the real problems come into play.

A tournament can't allow Wiimotes on the assumption that only 5 people will use them. What if more people bring them? Even just 5 still causes opportunities for problems

Tournaments are about consistansty and fairness. Not taking chances on Wiimote, so even an opponent would not want their opponent using a Wiimote.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

You missed my point MidBoss, I was listing reasons why a wiimote would work just fine at tournies.

 

[Chi's Finest]

This arguement seems very odd to me. Seems alot of people are complaining about having to sync up their controlers betweens each fight. Well, especialy since there isn't any 3rd party wiimotes yet, each console at a tournement should have 2 pre-synced wiimotes. Were would be no problem with this if all remotes are synced properly because of a few reasons.

1) if you choose to use the wiimote, nunchuc, or classic then you could bring your own batteries and switch them into the controller, thus thining the chances of the battery dieing (unless you bring used or undercharged ones but, whos fualt would that be?)

2) if the nunchuc or classic is chosen as your prefered controller, bring your own to hook up to the pre-synced wiimote. If wiimote alone is chosen then, well... there it is? hurray?

3) Befor fights you need to enter your name most of the time and there you can change the controler you would use, both taking less time then trying to sync a new controler each time. And if you feel the need to costumize the inputs then you could always memorise how you like to for quick entry.

4) assuming you are at a large scale tourny, a group of 3-4 consoles could be clumped togather, having multiple 'groups' about 30 feet apart to keep controlers from mixing. Again this is assuming you're at a very large tourny.

5) and in the end if all you are is grossed out by using a controler someone has sweated on and gunked up, bring wet wipes

On a side note if you want to use a gc controler then yes, a wireless may be a bad idea if at a large gathering. If these radio wireless controlers are allowed however and you can't get a WaveBird there are 3rd party alternatives (MadCatz etc), or maybe even ThrustMasters T wireless Classic ( http://gear.ign.com/articles/838/838868p1.html ). But the again, a wired gc might just be easier

EDIT: I know some of my post has been touched on before, so just think of this as a sum of the logical solutions found on this thread

1) No tournament is going to want to risk anyhting with batteries or pwer, regardles sof who's fault it would be.

2) Who exactly will be providing these presynced Wiimotes? I hope you don't think the tournament would. And if you want to use a GC controller, what happens when you need to resync the Wiimote after you're done with your battle?

4) That would make stations so far apart, creating a lot less stations, causing the tournament to be much longer. Also, each fight would have to wait for everyone in their specific "group" to finish since there are still Wii's close to it.

Wavebirds are banned for good reason already. Wiimotes haven't been given their fair shake yet, though, seeing as Brawl isn't even out. We're not saying that they shouldn't be banned ever, just that we shouldn't be planning to ban them yet.

Wavebirds are banned becuase they are wireless, have channels, and use batteries. That's the same reaosn they never even tried to use a 360 wireless controllers. It's the same reaosn they won't even try to use a Wiimote or any other wireless controller.

 

[MookieRah]

Why is this still being argued? I thought we all were on the same page finally. For smaller tournaments it's ok, for largescale tournaments it's understandably banned. It's not rocket science people.

 

[Card]

Why is this still being argued? I thought we all were on the same page finally. For smaller tournaments it's ok, for largescale tournaments it's understandably banned. It's not rocket science people.

They probably don't read previous pages and just dive right on in, causing an infinite loop of the same argument and points brought up over and over and over....

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

quite the opposite Card, I read the previous pages and I agree with MookieRah where as it would be more acceptable at smaller gatherings/tournys. I was meerly stating solutions to some problems. Although I can see Chi's point, the tournement hosts may not want or have the ability to contribute 30 wiimotes for a pre-syncing.

 

[Deleted member]

MookieRah: Everyone agrees except Chi's Finest. Myself and Midboss are somewhat baffled by his views.

 

[Erimir]

A tournament can't allow Wiimotes on the assumption that only 5 people will use them. What if more people bring them? Even just 5 still causes opportunities for problems

For small enough tournaments where there probably won't be too many Wiimotes, but the possibility exists that there might be too many, it's easy. Everyone is required to bring a GC controller, and once everyone's there, you can, you know, ask how many people want to use a Wiimote. If it's not too many people, then you're all set, and you just go.

If it is too many people, either people volunteer to not use a Wiimote, or you have some procedure for deciding who gets to use one (random assignment). If that doesn't seem fair enough, and people complain that they weren't allowed to use theirs, then you just don't allow them at all, which is what many people want in the first place. All in all, that would take you maybe 5 minutes (which would just cut into the warm-up time for those who wanted to use wiimotes).

It's not as if saying "We'll allow wireless, as long as not too many people use them" means that you're all of a sudden required to let everyone use a Wiimote if everyone shows up with one. These people know the risks - if they want to use a Wiimote, they have to accept the possibility that they won't be allowed to use it if too many wiimote players show up. The alternative is not allowing them at all.

And it seems to me that most of the time there wouldn't be too many anyway. If there are too many wiimote players too often, then ban them outright next time if they complain about the way you handle it.

 

[Chi's Finest]

MookieRah: Everyone agrees except Chi's Finest. Myself and Midboss are somewhat baffled by his views.

WRONG!

Everyone actually agrees with ME. Mookie, Ixninjax, Card, Erimer, and others all agree with me. MookieRah just summed up EXACTLY what I've been trying to tell you all day. You and Midboss are the only ones that think Wireless controlers can be used.

Although I can see Chi's point, the tournement hosts may not want or have the ability to contribute 30 wiimotes for a pre-syncing.

I'm the one saying that tournament hosts DON'T want to/can't do that. I've been pro on the MLG/Competitive/GC Controller/Anti-Wireless side of this whole discussion.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm starting to get pretty confused. So let me get this straight.

For smaller tournaments it's ok, for largescale tournaments it's understandably banned.

Does everyone agree to this statement? If so, why the heck are we arguing??

 

[Deleted member]

WRONG!

Everyone actually agrees with ME. Mookie, Ixninjax, Card, Erimer, and others all agree with me. MookieRah just summed up EXACTLY what I've been trying to tell you all day. You and Midboss are the only ones that think Wireless controlers can be used.



I'm the one saying that tournament hosts DON'T want to/can't do that. I've been pro on the MLG/Competitive/GC Controller/Anti-Wireless side of this whole discussion.

I give up, it is absolutely hopeless getting through your thick skull. I'm not wasting anymore time on this.

 

[The Dragon]

Shadow and midboss you say it hasnt been proven that they will cause problems... what you 2 dont seem to understand is that it hasn been proven, by Card... who works with the technology day in and day out, 5 days a week 8 hours a day.. with 50+ systems and a plethora of wireless controllers.. so the reason MOST tourneys will ban the wireless is not the possiblity of the desync but to remove any conflicts that may arise because of those issues.... and despite what you may say, when it comes down to losing a large sum of money... this isnt an ideal world... not many people are going to just take the loss because of batteries or w/e issue there wii mote may cause. There WILL be complaints, there WILL be issues.. so because of that there WILL NOT be wireless. Please understand. Granted some small venues may allow these devices, but the more places the devices are allowed the more odd balls with them will begin to show up causing more and more problems. For these reasons they will be banned. End of story.

 

[TheJalapeno]

Who doesn't have like 4 gamecube controllers because the C-Stick jacked up

 

[Cless]

Does everyone agree to this statement? If so, why the heck are we arguing??

It's the internet. People argue.

 

[MookieRah]

I think people are stuck on earlier comments, so I will attempt to set things straight a bit.

@Pretty much everyone:
Shadow and Midboss agree that the ban on largescale tournaments is warranted to some degree. They may not like it per se, but they can see it's merits; however, they don't see why it would be banned in smaller tournaments and smashfests. I agree with this as well, because I don't think that the interference would be significant at smaller tournaments.

Basically we shouldn't hold MLGs rule as the tournament standard due to interference. Tournaments should not be synonymous with gamecube controllers all the time.

This got heated for a while and people have said things they probably shouldn't have. I know I did and I regret it, but for everyone else who doesn't realize it yet, we kinda came to a conclusion a while ago XD.