I foresee a controller problem for future tournaments

[Chi's Finest]

I give up, it is absolutely hopeless getting through your thick skull. I'm not wasting anymore time on this.

No matter how much you try, you're not going to make me believe that Wiimotes will work at big tourneys.


You have your opinion, I have mine, and there's not much left to debate. So meh.

 

[The Dragon]

yes i know this but what i saying is even at those small events i feel they would be banned to simply takeout the risk factor for issues that may arise, dealing with batteries, etc. Simply because people don't want to wait or deal with the issues that may arise. And in the event where money is at stake as i stated in my previous post, I don't think someone would just take it if the lost that amount of money due to a controller malfunction, this is not an ideal world after all. This is why i think that they will be banned in smaller venues as well. Its just easier and safer that way

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

No matter how much you try, you're not going to make me believe that Wiimotes will work at big tourneys.


You have your opinion, I have mine, and there's not much left to debate. So meh.

You make a great argument and unfortunately i disagree with you on the wiimote situation, but i do agree with you on the right to your opinion situation. Because how can you allow me to respect and value your opinion when you won't consider mines as a possibility and you belittle it. Kudos to you, as you clearly supported my comment above.

 

[Sliq]

This arguement seems very odd to me. Seems alot of people are complaining about having to sync up their controlers betweens each fight. Well, especialy since there isn't any 3rd party wiimotes yet, each console at a tournement should have 2 pre-synced wiimotes. Were would be no problem with this if all remotes are synced properly because of a few reasons.

1) if you choose to use the wiimote, nunchuc, or classic then you could bring your own batteries and switch them into the controller, thus thining the chances of the battery dieing (unless you bring used or undercharged ones but, whos fualt would that be?)

2) if the nunchuc or classic is chosen as your prefered controller, bring your own to hook up to the pre-synced wiimote. If wiimote alone is chosen then, well... there it is? hurray?

3) Befor fights you need to enter your name most of the time and there you can change the controler you would use, both taking less time then trying to sync a new controler each time. And if you feel the need to costumize the inputs then you could always memorise how you like to for quick entry.

4) assuming you are at a large scale tourny, a group of 3-4 consoles could be clumped togather, having multiple 'groups' about 30 feet apart to keep controlers from mixing. Again this is assuming you're at a very large tourny.

5) and in the end if all you are is grossed out by using a controler someone has sweated on and gunked up, bring wet wipes

On a side note if you want to use a gc controler then yes, a wireless may be a bad idea if at a large gathering. If these radio wireless controlers are allowed however and you can't get a WaveBird there are 3rd party alternatives (MadCatz etc), or maybe even ThrustMasters T wireless Classic ( http://gear.ign.com/articles/838/838868p1.html ). But the again, a wired gc might just be easier

EDIT: I know some of my post has been touched on before, so just think of this as a sum of the logical solutions found on this thread

Who is going to just leave their wiimotes laying out for perfect strangers to use/break/steal? Are you ********? Would you leave YOUR wiimote just laying around? Wiimotes are expensive.

The majority of Smash tournaments (now) are run by smashers themselves. They don't have 30 wiimotes just lying around. When they throw tournaments they ask people to bring setups (TV, GCN). It isn't huge corporations with bountiful resources throwing these things, it's us.

No matter how much you try, you're not going to make me believe that Wiimotes will work at big tourneys.


You have your opinion, I have mine, and there's not much left to debate. So meh.

NO ONE WAS ARGUING THAT THEY WOULD. Everyone already agreed that they wouldn't work for large scale tournaments. We are talking about small scale tournaments (30-50) where maybe 10% want to use wiimotes, when it probably won't be a problem.

Furthermore, EVERYONE AGREES THAT WIIMOTE FAILURE IS ON THE PERSON USING IT. Everyone, including Shadow, stated that you should know the inherent risks in using a wiimote, and thereby losing to a technical difficulty is YOUR OWN FAULT. There will be no "do-overs" or favoritism towards wireless.

You SERIOUSLY lack reading comprehension skills

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow and midboss you say it hasnt been proven that they will cause problems... what you 2 dont seem to understand is that it hasn been proven, by Card... who works with the technology day in and day out, 5 days a week 8 hours a day.. with 50+ systems and a plethora of wireless controllers.. so the reason MOST tourneys will ban the wireless is not the possiblity of the desync but to remove any conflicts that may arise because of those issues.... and despite what you may say, when it comes down to losing a large sum of money... this isnt an ideal world... not many people are going to just take the loss because of batteries or w/e issue there wii mote may cause. There WILL be complaints, there WILL be issues.. so because of that there WILL NOT be wireless. Please understand. Granted some small venues may allow these devices, but the more places the devices are allowed the more odd balls with them will begin to show up causing more and more problems. For these reasons they will be banned. End of story.

Nothing has been proven. Do you know what I do for a living? I manage our entire line of cell phone, Bluetooth devices, computers, and everything tech support for my office. My fiance works for Nintendo as over the phone tech support, and some of our friends are playtesters at Nintendo where THEY ACTUALLY USE WIIMOTES. NOT PS3 CONTROLLERS. It has NOT been proven and I confirmed that NO ONE has had desync issues at Nintendo. You don't know me, you don't know what I do, and Card's experience with the PS3 does not apply here. It is similar, but NOT identical technology. Not to mention they could be having other issues with something else interfering, but the PS3 is notorious for dropping the Bluetooth connection while the Wii has not been.

And does my experience prove anything? No, me nor Card posting here prove anything. What I said is true but it isn't a scientific experiment. They have a large number of Wii's together that have no problems. Does that mean there will never be problems? No. If there are problems does that mean there will always be problems? No. The fact is that no real testing has been done but so it doesn't look like it would be a problem despite one guys post that you state as proof when it is very unrelated.

EDIT 1: Here's a CURRENT thread on a PS3 forum where nearly half of the users have problems with Bluetooth disconnecting while playing alone:

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=83409

Here is a large recent thread on the Official Playstation forums about the problem:

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...read.id=1810914&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Here's another large current thread from a popular gaming forum:

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130437

Here's an older Kotaku article about the PS3 Bluetooth disconnection problems:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3-controller/ps3-bluetooth-controller-issues-216762.php

PS3 DOES NOT EQUAL WII. ALL BLUETOOTH IS NOT THE SAME. PLEASE DON'T ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU DO NOT. A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE EVEN SPECIFICALLY STATE THEIR WIIMOTE DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM BUT THEIR PS3 DOES. ALL BLUETOOTH IS NOT CREATED EQUAL OR IMPLEMENTED IN THE SAME WAY.

You don't see posts like those about the Wii, but I easily found them regarding the PS3. When searching for any disconnect issues with the Bluetooth Wiimote all that comes up are threads about their PS3 controller disconnecting and how their Wiimote works fine. A lot of PS3 users are having the issue. I've put up more proof than anyone yet.

EDIT 2: You can even see in this document Sony is modifying their Bluetooth technology after release for the newer consoles, probably to fix issues though people are still having problems and this document is from March:

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/03/ps3_80gb_pdf.jpg

The technology behind Bluetooth is very complicated. It isn't just black and white. Bluetooth can be implemented well or poorly. It isn't just whether the device uses Bluetooth or not. I hope you've learned something here, because you obviously didn't know a lot before. I provided a combination of proof and personal experience and that is as close to facts as I can get without taking you on a tour of Nintendo's facility showing you how they DON'T have problems. Normally I don't put this much work into a post but the amount of ignorance and people thinking they know what they're talking about pushed me over the edge. Card DOES NOT win the thread because his situation does not apply here. If this was a PS3 game it would be much more relevant but unfortunately, as I have shown you, the two systems are very different.

 

[AttackstorM]

Nothing has been proven. Do you know what I do for a living? I manage our entire line of cell phone, Bluetooth devices, computers, and everything tech support for my office. My fiance works for Nintendo as over the phone tech support, and some of our friends are playtesters at Nintendo where THEY ACTUALLY USE WIIMOTES. NOT PS3 CONTROLLERS. It has NOT been proven and I confirmed that NO ONE has had desync issues at Nintendo. You don't know me, you don't know what I do, and Card's experience with the PS3 does not apply here. It is similar, but NOT identical technology. Not to mention they could be having other issues with something else interfering, but the PS3 is notorious for dropping the Bluetooth connection while the Wii has not been.

And does my experience prove anything? No, me nor Card posting here prove anything. What I said is true but it isn't a scientific experiment. They have a large number of Wii's together that have no problems. Does that mean there will never be problems? No. If there are problems does that mean there will always be problems? No. The fact is that no real testing has been done but so it doesn't look like it would be a problem despite one guys post that you state as proof when it is very unrelated.

EDIT 1: Here's a CURRENT thread on a PS3 forum where nearly half of the users have problems with Bluetooth disconnecting while playing alone:

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=83409

Here is a large recent thread on the Official Playstation forums about the problem:

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...read.id=1810914&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Here's another large current thread from a popular gaming forum:

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130437

Here's an older Kotaku article about the PS3 Bluetooth disconnection problems:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps3-controller/ps3-bluetooth-controller-issues-216762.php

PS3 DOES NOT EQUAL WII. ALL BLUETOOTH IS NOT THE SAME. PLEASE DON'T ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU DO NOT. A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE EVEN SPECIFICALLY STATE THEIR WIIMOTE DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM BUT THEIR PS3 DOES. ALL BLUETOOTH IS NOT CREATED EQUAL OR IMPLEMENTED IN THE SAME WAY.

You don't see posts like those about the Wii, but I easily found them regarding the PS3. When searching for any disconnect issues with the Bluetooth Wiimote all that comes up are threads about their PS3 controller disconnecting and how their Wiimote works fine. A lot of PS3 users are having the issue. I've put up more proof than anyone yet.

EDIT 2: You can even see in this document Sony is modifying their Bluetooth technology after release for the newer consoles, probably to fix issues though people are still having problems and this document is from March:

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/03/ps3_80gb_pdf.jpg

The technology behind Bluetooth is very complicated. It isn't just black and white. Bluetooth can be implemented well or poorly. It isn't just whether the device uses Bluetooth or not. I hope you've learned something here, because you obviously didn't know a lot before. I provided a combination of proof and personal experience and that is as close to facts as I can get without taking you on a tour of Nintendo's facility showing you how they DON'T have problems. Normally I don't put this much work into a post but the amount of ignorance and people thinking they know what they're talking about pushed me over the edge. Card DOES NOT win the thread because his situation does not apply here. If this was a PS3 game it would be much more relevant but unfortunately, as I have shown you, the two systems are very different.

Yea great point
this is why i said earlier this should actually be tested at a mlg brawl tournament before totally being written off. for all of you saying it's backed by science, those of you that go to science class know that it is only a scientific theory if it is not proven to be fact in experiments. what m3d posted is only a theory. no one has tested brawl with wii remotes in a large scale tournament or any tournament period.

 

[Cless]

It's not going to be tested at MLG. It's too big a tournament to even have the potential for problems. They're not going to test wireless controllers for the Wii when they have bans on wireless for the PS3 and 360. Come on, can we get off of this now?

 

[MookieRah]

They're not going to test wireless controllers for the Wii when they have bans on wireless for the PS3 and 360. Come on, can we get off of this now?

Again, Shadow isn't talking about MLG. Large scale tournaments do not apply because the chances of mess ups are much much larger, and the stakes much higher.

However, testing thing out on the small scale (like a smashfest) during friendlies is not going to pose any problems whatsoever, and would benefit the community as a whole.

 

[Cless]

Again, Shadow isn't talking about MLG. Large scale tournaments do not apply because the chances of mess ups are much much larger, and the stakes much higher.

However, testing thing out on the small scale (like a smashfest) during friendlies is not going to pose any problems whatsoever, and would benefit the community as a whole.

I was talking about MLG. The guy above my post said that MLG should test it out. Of course it'd be fine at small tournaments. There's not nearly as much money on the line, or even at smashfests.

 

[MookieRah]

Oh, my bad, I must have skipped over AttackStorm's post.

this is why i said earlier this should actually be tested at a mlg brawl tournament before totally being written off.

Well it's much more complicated than that at large tournaments. I'll go into detail from more of a tournament organizer's point of view.

The problem specifically with MLG is that it already has this ban in place, and seeing how the other 2 systems have a definite ban that I do not see being lifted on their systems, it would be unfair for them to lift it for Wiimotes.

Secondly, there are a lot of people who make their first tournament a really large one. They would more than likely be unaware of the community and the rules. Most people don't bother reading the rules either, it's basic human nature to not give a **** about text in the middle of something exciting. These guys would also likely to be using wiimotes over gamecube because they aren't aware of the problems. So when it comes down to a potential error, they WILL be angry and they probably will cause trouble. The last thing a tournament organizer wants to do is deal with these kinds of problems.

That's about it in a nutshell. I hope this makes sense.

 

[Deleted member]

I still think it should be tried because the 360 and PS3 bans are in place already but you can use the identical controller but wired.

With the Wii you are taking away three other control options. So few people would use it I don't think it would be a problem. I would UNDERSTAND if they don't unban it or even try it out, but I think they should try it.

So before anyone flames:

I understand if/why they don't, but I think they should try it.

 

[Chi's Finest]

NO ONE WAS ARGUING THAT THEY WOULD. Everyone already agreed that they wouldn't work for large scale tournaments. We are talking about small scale tournaments (30-50) where maybe 10% want to use wiimotes, when it probably won't be a problem.

Furthermore, EVERYONE AGREES THAT WIIMOTE FAILURE IS ON THE PERSON USING IT. Everyone, including Shadow, stated that you should know the inherent risks in using a wiimote, and thereby losing to a technical difficulty is YOUR OWN FAULT. There will be no "do-overs" or favoritism towards wireless.

You SERIOUSLY lack reading comprehension skills

I believe YOU do. Go back and read a few posts back. They were saying that there would be no interference at MLG, I said there would be.

Then they said about only 5 people bringing Wiimotes and I said that you can't control how many people bring which controller and it would still cause problems.

Then they said that people using Wireless should accept the responsibility, of desyncing and batteries and I expressed how that would be like adding items to the mix, by creating random misfortunes.

People talked about choosing certain people to have to use a Wiimote and cetain people to use a GC controller. Why not just have everyone use a GC than cause all this confusion?


Large scale tourneys were still being disussed, small amounts of Wiimotes were being dicsussed, responsibilities of wireless users, and choosing how many remotes go to how big of an area was being discussed. So unless you've the last few pages, don't come in here telling us what has been discussed and what people have agreed on.

 

[MookieRah]

So few people would use it I don't think it would be a problem. I would UNDERSTAND if they don't unban it or even try it out, but I think they should try it.

Hmm, well it's been a LONG LONG time since I've been to an MLG, but when I was at one it was a very tight ship. My guess is that the only way they could really test it would to just open the Brawl season with a short 1-2 hour wiimote friendly session. That way they could test it out without having to suffer tournament losses. The only problem though is time, and I'm not sure if they could fit in something like that.

It's not likely, because it would take a lot of organizing to do, and like I said before they would be wary about wireless to the point they probably wouldn't bother to go through the hassle. I think it should happen if they could swing it, cause there really isn't a reason not to. Plus I think people would appreciate 2 hours of friendlies :-P.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, well it's been a LONG LONG time since I've been to an MLG, but when I was at one it was a very tight ship. My guess is that the only way they could really test it would to just open the Brawl season with a short 1-2 hour wiimote friendly session. That way they could test it out without having to suffer tournament losses. The only problem though is time, and I'm not sure if they could fit in something like that.

It's not likely, because it would take a lot of organizing to do, and like I said before they would be wary about wireless to the point they probably wouldn't bother to go through the hassle. I think it should happen if they could swing it, cause there really isn't a reason not to. Plus I think people would appreciate 2 hours of friendlies :-P.

Agreed.

 

[Chi's Finest]

Hmm, well it's been a LONG LONG time since I've been to an MLG, but when I was at one it was a very tight ship. My guess is that the only way they could really test it would to just open the Brawl season with a short 1-2 hour wiimote friendly session. That way they could test it out without having to suffer tournament losses. The only problem though is time, and I'm not sure if they could fit in something like that.

It's not likely, because it would take a lot of organizing to do, and like I said before they would be wary about wireless to the point they probably wouldn't bother to go through the hassle. I think it should happen if they could swing it, cause there really isn't a reason not to. Plus I think people would appreciate 2 hours of friendlies :-P.

That could be possible because basiclly it's gamer volunters that come into the event days before it opens to help set up everything, and during that time when they got 30 gamers hanging aoround, they could try something then. For MLG Chicago 07, they posted on MLG that they were looking for anyone in the Chicago area to help and stuff and even had videos of them just messing aorund there. Bu then again it would kind of suck to have to wait until a few days before the event to confirm the controller types, because a few people have actually flown in that early.

 

[MookieRah]

Bu then again it would kind of suck to have to wait until a few days before the event to confirm the controller types, because a few people have actually flown in that early.

The best thing to fix this problem would simply be to announce that they will test out the wiimotes prior to the tournament but have the wiimotes banned for the first tournament. That would avoid the confusion and hassle of people trying to find out whether or not they opted to ban it or not. After the tournament MLG would then announce it's position on wiimotes.

 

[Deleted member]

That could be possible because basiclly it's gamer volunters that come into the event days before it opens to help set up everything, and during that time when they got 30 gamers hanging aoround, they could try something then. For MLG Chicago 07, they posted on MLG that they were looking for anyone in the Chicago area to help and stuff and even had videos of them just messing aorund there. Bu then again it would kind of suck to have to wait until a few days before the event to confirm the controller types, because a few people have actually flown in that early.

I don't think it would be a big deal for them to bring both controllers in their luggage...hell I would bring both anyway for GC and Wii games at the hotel.

 

[Chi's Finest]

I don't think it would be a big deal for them to bring both controllers in their luggage...hell I would bring both anyway for GC and Wii games at the hotel.

Yea, but when people train for a tourney, they would want to train with the exact remote they are using. People go and buy their wired 360 controllers in advance so they can train on using a brand new remote. The 360's joysticks don't break like GC's did, and stay almost new forever, but to most of the MLG competitors, every detail like that, even on a controller, counts for training. So that would make it hard to train with one, not knowing if it's the one you'll even be using.

 

[Deleted member]

Yea, but when people train for a tourney, they would want to train with the exact remote they are using. People go and buy their wired 360 controllers in advance so they can train on using a brand new remote. The 360's joysticks don't break like GC's did, and stay almost new forever, but to most of the MLG competitors, every detail like that, even on a controller, counts for training. So that would make it hard to train with one, not knowing if it's the one you'll even be using.

I'm just not anal like that and I can easily switch controllers...and switching from a wireless 360 to a wired? That isn't even really a difference...if that throws off your game I don't know what to tell you...

But I agree, they should either announce it ahead of time or just have them banned for the first tournament while they test them, then announce their decision for the next one.