I foresee a controller problem for future tournaments

[CT Chia]

for tournaments we might have to allow only cube controllers so we dont have to deal with syncing. or else have 2 wii remotes at every station and ppl either use them (but who will play with remote only?), or they can bring theyr own nunchuk or classic controller. then the tournament organizers work on having everything setup before everything begins. we'l have to try to space out systems as much as possible when at giant venues, but hopefully only 2 wii remotes per station wont ruin things too much. of course this means ppl cant bring their wii remote with em to keep their saved name and controls. theyl have to deal with re-entering it at the system.

of course im talking about singles. for doubles id imagine it would have to be atleast 2 cube controllers required, if not all to make it standard.

 

[The Dragon]

for tournaments we might have to allow only cube controllers so we dont have to deal with syncing. or else have 2 wii remotes at every station and ppl either use them (but who will play with remote only?), or they can bring theyr own nunchuk or classic controller. then the tournament organizers work on having everything setup before everything begins. we'l have to try to space out systems as much as possible when at giant venues, but hopefully only 2 wii remotes per station wont ruin things too much. of course this means ppl cant bring their wii remote with em to keep their saved name and controls. theyl have to deal with re-entering it at the system.

of course im talking about singles. for doubles id imagine it would have to be atleast 2 cube controllers required, if not all to make it standard.

Wireless is great for at home... but no offense to you or anyone else trying to make wireless work in competitions.. but that fact of the matter is.. it wont.. due to waiting for sync times, desyncs during matches, battery issuses.. etc... there are just SOOO many things that could go wrong and that WILL go wrong, that they will ban so those issues dont arise making it better for EVERYONE.... i say it again... MAKING IT BETTER FOR EVERYONE. get use to using a game cube controller like everyone else if you plan on going to tournaments. If you don't believe me read Card's post or the million other posts as to why wireless and competitions don't mix.

 

[Midboss]

I'm going to hijack the thread in a random direction and ask: Am I the only one hoping Nintendo eventually produces a white Gamecube controller that matches the Wii?

 

[The Dragon]

who knows but nintendo online only sells them in platinum right now...

p.s. thank you lol

 

[Deleted member]

wtf kinda post is this why even waste the time to write this garbage, please give thought to your posts at least. Stop whinning about everything that doesn't fit into you safety bubble. Life is like that, learn to deal with it ffs

Ha, ha, ha, ha!!! I allow EVERYTHING into my bubble. You and others are the ones that don't allow wireless, levels, characters, items, into your little safety bubble. Way to go kiddo!

MookieRah: You make it very clear that you are from Mississippi.

 

[Cless]

Why don't you give a concrete reason, in the face of all the evidence and firsthand accounts, why wireless controllers should be allowed? Why don't you give a reason why random elements in a fighting game should be allowed in a controlled setting?

 

[MookieRah]

You and others are the ones that don't allow wireless, levels, characters, items, into your little safety bubble. Way to go kiddo!

MookieRah: You make it very clear that you are from Mississippi.

Oh wow. Dude, you are way way lamer than I thought. Seriously. You have learned absolutely nothing from this thread, you have just complained about the competitive scene throughout. After all that you make a quip about how you are "open minded" and then you make a personal attack at me, one that has NOTHING to do with anything.

That and the obvious fact that while Mississippi sucks, it gets an even worse rap everywhere else. Tupelo, for instance (where I was born and live when I'm with my family), has a blue ribbon high school, and is quite progressive for most of the boony places that the media likes to point out. I'm currently attending MSU, who's graphic design program is top notch.

I'm still amazed that you would pull that out. It really shows how low you are willing to go.

 

[Deleted member]

If Smash didn't support GameCube controllers what would people do, never play it in a tournament? Wrong, they would come up with a solution.

Also at E for All, E3, and other places there have been TONS of Wii's in one area without lags, desyncs, disconnects, etc. At what point does too many become a problem? I haven't seen any solid proof because while one guy complains about the PS3 having issues it is KNOWN to desync even without other PS3s in the room. I've been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on with no problems.

I also know a few play testers at Nintendo so I will ask them how many they have and if they have any issues, but they have certainly never brought anything up like that before. And yes, my profile says California because I just moved up here to Washington but I'm moving back to California next year.

Also, tons of people use Bluetooth headsets attached to their phones in my office where there are hundreds of people and they don't have issues either. I think that one guy's post is hardly proof.

 

[Cless]

If Smash didn't support GameCube controllers what would people do, never play it in a tournament? Wrong, they would come up with a solution.

This is a moot point since it does support Gamecube controllers.

Also at E for All, E3, and other places there have been TONS of Wii's in one area without lags, desyncs, disconnects, etc. At what point does too many become a problem? I haven't seen any solid proof because while one guy complains about the PS3 having issues it is KNOWN to desync even without other PS3s in the room. I've been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on with no problems.

Can you say for certainty that there was no lag? Most people probably wouldn't have even noticed, or chalked it up to the game being a demo.

responses bolded

 

[Deleted member]

It isn't a moot point because you shouldn't ban something just because it supports wired controllers if it may work properly.

And can you say with certainty there WAS lag? No.

 

[MookieRah]

If Smash didn't support GameCube controllers what would people do, never play it in a tournament? Wrong, they would come up with a solution.

What solution? Barring someone inventing a way to make it work, there isn't one. If we had no other choice we'd just have to deal with the problems, and it would suck.

Asside from that, why does it matter!? Are you going to go to tournaments??? Also, Sakurai had the insight to give us a wired option. It's obviously better to do that than ANY other solution we could come up with. It's so obvious that the best route for tournaments is to go gamecube controller only.

It isn't a moot point because you shouldn't ban something just because it supports wired controllers if it may work properly.

YES, you should in order to ensure that there are NO complaints and problems. Have you had to deal with a tournament dispute before? Have you had to deal with all the stresses associated with running a tournament? I have, nothing large mind you, and it's actually pretty daunting. It's much easier, smarter, faster, and just way more efficient to ban wireless. It's REALLY not that hard to get a gamecube controller.

Also at E for All, E3, and other places there have been TONS of Wii's in one area without lags, desyncs, disconnects, etc. At what point does too many become a problem? I haven't seen any solid proof because while one guy complains about the PS3 having issues it is KNOWN to desync even without other PS3s in the room. I've been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on with no problems.

Read M3D's post. That is scientific data. Also, MLG is taking a no wireless policy in general, so people would complain if they could use wireless wii motes.

Secondly, didn't Nintendo provide the wii motes at E for All? If so they were pre-synced and people just traded them off. Not to mention that it was 4 player ffa for 2 minutes on a game people were playing for the first time, so it is a good chance that crossing simply wasn't reported.

Thirdly, just how many booths were there? What are the numbers we are looking at? You say you have proof, but I really doubt you could give me a solid number.

You have to take ALL of these things into account, not just some ideal situation like E for All.

I've been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on with no problems.

Unless it was in a place saturated with 50+ wii motes it isn't really relevant.

 

[Midboss]

I guess I'll contribute to the discussion a little. It's really a shame that pre-sync'd wiimotes aren't an option, but those of us who would prefer to use a wiimote will just have to grin and bear it. Even so, I think some brave tournament director should at least give wiimotes a shot in a tournament setting, just to see if they can work. Obviously with a sufficient number of games going at once it's not gonna work, but we don't REALLY know for sure just how bad it might be until we've tried. Basing judgment on the PS3 seems like a bad idea; given all the mistakes Sony's been making lately, particularly in their hardware, I personally wouldn't trust it farther than I can blow it.

Edit: Of course, I intend to use the wiimote & nunchuk, at least at home, so of course I'll lean in favor of giving it a try. But until now I've always greatly preferred wired controllers, I loathe my friend's wavebird and wireless PS2 controller, because I can seem to feel a distinct input latency with either that screws me up. Yet another reason wired Gamecube controllers are really the better option for tournaments, despite my desire to use a wiimote.

 

[Card]

If Smash didn't support GameCube controllers what would people do, never play it in a tournament? Wrong, they would come up with a solution.

If humans could shoot lazer beams out of their eyes, what would people do if planet earth was ever attack, get totally annihilated? Wrong, they would use their lazer beam abilities and fight back!

As you can see how stupid the above statement is, you can see how stupid your point is because Smash DOES support GameCube controllers.

Also at E for All, E3, and other places there have been TONS of Wii's in one area without lags, desyncs, disconnects, etc. At what point does too many become a problem? I haven't seen any solid proof because while one guy complains about the PS3 having issues it is KNOWN to desync even without other PS3s in the room. I've been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on with no problems.

Have you been in one place with a ton of Wii action going on, and played on the Same Controller with the Same Wii for 8+ hours straight?

Guess what, I have, for over a year.

5 days a week, 8 hours at a time, I'm pretty much testing a game using a Wireless Controller. I said this in my previous post, I don't have as much experience with a Wiimote as I do with a SIXAXIS controller, but like I said they both use the same technology, and I am fairly sure that my co-workers on Wii have the same issues. Did you know there are actually test passes we must do which involve "Controller Synchronization"? (Example, try to Sync up 10 controllers to 1 PS3 at the same time on the Character Select screen, and see what happens)

You know Just because you are wandering around E4All doesnt mean you can see all the Desyncs which happen. You also realize its possible for Desyncs to occur in transition or loading screens, or screens which are not detrimental to the player? (Character Select screen... Start Screen... Game Over screen... etc..)

If a wireless controller desync occurs and no one is there to see it, does it actually happen?

Also, tons of people use Bluetooth headsets attached to their phones in my office where there are hundreds of people and they don't have issues either. I think that one guy's post is hardly proof.

You honestly mean to tell me that in all of Bluetooth Headset history located around the world, there has not been ONE desync or disconnect for a single person?

Tell me how many stories you have heard about Wired controllers disconnecting, lagging, or desyncing? That's right... you can't think of any because there are NONE.

 

[Deleted member]

Did you ever take into consideration that the majority of people will want to play with wired GameCube controllers (because many people are used to it from Melee) so there will not be that many wireless controllers, and the likelihood of a lot, let alone those few, interfering with each other is amazingly unlikely?

I think that tournaments should be all about INCLUSION but all anyone wants to do is exclude as many things as possible that don't fit in their little world, even if it can work.

And as I said I know a few play testers at NINTENDO, NOT SONY and I will ask them. I don't care what happens at your work since Sony has more problems than I can count.

 

[MookieRah]

Card wins again. 2 for 2. Personal experience once again beats idle speculation.

Did you ever take into consideration that the majority of people will want to play with wired GameCube controllers (because many people are used to it from Melee) so there will not be that many wireless controllers, and the likelihood of a lot, let alone those few, interfering with each other is amazingly unlikely?

For the most part we were talking about large scale tournaments like MLG, FC, OC, etc. Of course not all of the TO's are going to ban wireless. For smashfests and most tournaments it shouldn't be *that* big of a deal as long as the person is aware of the possibilities. The worst that I could see happening is for a few idiots who think they are hardcore competitive players would look down upon it cause it isn't the gamecube controller. Big whoop.

 

[Deleted member]

Card wins again. 2 for 2. Personal experience once again beats idle speculation.

Personally experience with a PS3 does not equal personal experience with a Wii. Mississippi is 0 for 2.

 

[Midboss]

I don't want to agree with ShadowXOR, but he brings up a valid point there. Most people will simply CHOOSE Gamecube controllers, so there might be just a select few using Wiimotes. Would it be at all acceptable to anyone to allow them, but require the player to bring a wired Gamecube controller as well, so they can switch, if things become a problem? And of course, if they regularly are problematic, lay a ban down on them.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't want to agree with ShadowXOR, but he brings up a valid point there. Most people will simply CHOOSE Gamecube controllers, so there might be just a select few using Wiimotes. Would it be at all acceptable to anyone to allow them, but require the player to bring a wired Gamecube controller as well, so they can switch, if things become a problem? And of course, if they regularly are problematic, lay a ban down on them.

Thanks I think?

Also, I understand why WaveBirds are banned since with a lot of them they are VERY prone to interference, but this just isn't the case with Wiimotes.

As the guy above me says, if they cause a problem, ban them. I can almost guarantee you there will be no problems. But there is currently NO proof that they cause problems, especially counting how few people will choose them. However, for those who want to play their best and prefer this control scheme, why should they be excluded?

 

[Midboss]

I wouldn't go so far as to make a personal guarantee, but I'm certainly not absolutely convinced they'll be a problem. I can't help but think that between the number of people simply preferring Gamecube controllers and the fact that if a hiccup occurs with your wiimote and you lose a match it's your fault for choosing that control scheme, not many would really show up packing a wiimote instead of a Gamecube controller, and the few who did would be far more likely to make absolutely sure their batteries are fresh and to bring a spare set of batteries just in case, which would alleviate ONE wireless problem, and if the rules demand it, they'd bring their Gamecube controller too, just in case.

 

[Cless]

Did you ever take into consideration that the majority of people will want to play with wired GameCube controllers (because many people are used to it from Melee) so there will not be that many wireless controllers, and the likelihood of a lot, let alone those few, interfering with each other is amazingly unlikely?

I think that tournaments should be all about INCLUSION but all anyone wants to do is exclude as many things as possible that don't fit in their little world, even if it can work.

And as I said I know a few play testers at NINTENDO, NOT SONY and I will ask them. I don't care what happens at your work since Sony has more problems than I can count.

You're forgetting other controller johns, and it's not just the wiimotes, it's every other wireless device in the room including the Wiis themselves.

Tournaments are about inclusion. It's only after many trials and much discussion that anything is banned. Banning is a last resort for a tournament. People don't just go "I don't like you. I'm gonna ban you."

I don't want to agree with ShadowXOR, but he brings up a valid point there. Most people will simply CHOOSE Gamecube controllers, so there might be just a select few using Wiimotes. Would it be at all acceptable to anyone to allow them, but require the player to bring a wired Gamecube controller as well, so they can switch, if things become a problem? And of course, if they regularly are problematic, lay a ban down on them.

If you would have to switch if there's a problem, why not just avoid the problem in the first place?

 

[Deleted member]

I certainly would bring fresh batteries (common sense) and if there are any desyncs then it should be on me for bringing a wireless controller. However I don't think there would be any interference regardless.

Personally if there was a tournament that allowed wireless and there was a problem I wouldn't switch to GameCube, I would just drop out. I can't stand the controller but I'm very competitive at Smash so this is why I think this is so lame.

Cless: To the best of my knowledge they haven't done a test with Wiimotes so it may not be banned for a reason. I know WaveBirds were banned for a reason though. If you have proof that they tested Wiimotes and banned it for a reason, please share that with us.

 

[MookieRah]

I'll quote my edit from a second ago because I know it was looked over:

For the most part we were talking about large scale tournaments like MLG, FC, OC, etc. Of course not all of the TO's are going to ban wireless. For smashfests and most tournaments it shouldn't be *that* big of a deal as long as the person is aware of the possibilities. The worst that I could see happening is for a few idiots who think they are hardcore competitive players would look down upon it cause it isn't the gamecube controller. Big whoop.

 

[Chi's Finest]

Thanks I think?

Also, I understand why WaveBirds are banned since with a lot of them they are VERY prone to interference, but this just isn't the case with Wiimotes.

As the guy above me says, f they cause a problem, ban them. I can almost guarantee you there will be no problems. But there is currently NO proof that they cause problems, especially counting how few people will choose them. However, for those who want to play their best and prefer this control scheme, why should they be excluded?

*sigh* There IS problems with having wireless. All the wireless remotes in a small area = not good. Also, in a tournament, there is the issue of batteries. Even if everyone brings their own set and throws them in before a match, it still doesn't create the safe, balanced playingfield intended for a tournament.

Theres always a chance of something going wrong with a wireless remote, even if they were all pre synced ahead of time. Hell, i've played my 360 before with one controller and it's d/c out of no where for no reason. Please don't respond to that by "cuz teh 360 suxerz, nintendo 4 da win!"

So set up any situations you want, but it still can't be done. only ONE Wii with 2 wireless Wiimotes in an entire tourney can't be done even.

 

[AltF4]

I really feel like making a portable wireless jamming device and bringing it to tournaments just for the sake of proving to people that wireless is bad. I could do it with a laptop and the right card.

 

[Deleted member]

*sigh* There IS problems with having wireless. All the wireless remotes in a small area = not good. Also, in a tournament, there is the issue of batteries. Even if everyone brings their own set and throws them in before a match, it still doesn't create the safe, balanced playingfield intended for a tournament.

Theres always a chance of something going wrong with a wireless remote, even if they were all pre synced ahead of time. Hell, i've played my 360 before with one controller and it's d/c out of no where for no reason. Please don't respond to that by "cuz teh 360 suxerz, nintendo 4 da win!"

So set up any situations you want, but it still can't be done. only ONE Wii with 2 wireless Wiimotes in an entire tourney can't be done even.

I have a 360 and love it, it has never desynced, I'm also using the wireless adapter for the internet and play games with no problems ever. And saying that one Wii with two wireless Wiimotes can't be done is a complete joke. Get real.

 

[Deleted member]

I really feel like making a portable wireless jamming device and bringing it to tournaments just for the sake of proving to people that wireless is bad. I could do it with a laptop and the right card.

That wouldn't prove your point, that would prove that you have to go out of your way to try and sabotage something. If wireless is so bad like you say wouldn't it jam all by itself? Oh wait, it doesn't.

 

[MookieRah]

I really feel like making a portable wireless jamming device and bringing it to tournaments just for the sake of proving to people that wireless is bad. I could do it with a laptop and the right card.

Please... no... this will just rile Shadow up more.

I have a 360 and love it, it has never desynced. And saying that one Wii with two wireless Wiimotes can't be done is a complete joke. Get real.

It is possible, just extremely unlikely. It's just that every time you use a wireless controller you run that sort of risk. You may accept it, but others might, and it's a TOs worst nightmare to have to deal with little insignificant problems that are caused by people who aren't willing to accept responsibility if this does happen. If anything, this thread has shown me that if I ever hosted a tournament I would ban wireless as a preventive measure against BS. Why? Cause it is much less of a hassle and one that I don't want to deal with.

 

[Midboss]

Because some might genuinely be more comfortable, and capable, when using the wiimote than when using the Gamecube controller. We don't know for SURE they'll be a problem yet, and I say this based more on the number of players who will prefer the Gamecube controller. Wiimote & Nunchuk control for Smash will probably be a little awkward, to be honest. I'm not absolutely saying they have to be allowed, just that they should be given a fair shot, like everything else has in the past.

Edit: I was a bit slow posting. But, I wanna point out I'm not saying I truly believe there won't/couldn't be problems, just that we should get a feel for how many players actually intend to use wiimotes before laying down a ban. At a MASSIVE event with hundreds of participants, obviously wiimotes are out, end of story. But as far as I know, most tourneys and smashfests aren't nearly that big.

 

[Deleted member]

Please... no... this will just rile Shadow up more.

I don't see how that would rile me up, but feel free to read my response above. I guess I should go to a tournament and start cutting wired controllers to show you how easily the cords break since that is how I can "prove" it to people. Oh wait I was just making that up, just like the other guy.

 

[Cless]

Cless: To the best of my knowledge they haven't done a test with Wiimotes so it may not be banned for a reason. I know WaveBirds were banned for a reason though. If you have proof that they tested Wiimotes and banned it for a reason, please share that with us.

Ok, fine. Wireless in general was tested for all systems, not Wiimotes specifically. Since we're given the option for wired in Brawl, the all wireless ban for controllers should apply to the Wii as well. Since you feel that your previous point wasn't moot, we would just have to grin and bear it were this not the case, but it's not. The PS3 and 360 both have simple options to make their controllers wired. The Wii doesn't. That's the long and short of it.

 

[Sliq]

I don't have a problem with people using the wiimotes at tournaments. But what they have to realize is that I'm not going to hold their hand when their wiimote disconnects or runs out of batteries. They don't get a "redo" because it de-synced and they died, or their batteries died, leaving them helpless. They won't receive special treatment for their "inferior" control setup (i.e. wired controllers do not have this problem).

I'm not going to address the whole syncing issue, because I can't really decide if it is going to be a minor nuisance or a huge problem. BUT if it is a huge problem, then I don't see how a soft/hard ban on wireless is going to be a huge deal, considering it will be necessary in order to complete the tournament.

We will have no way of knowing until we actually try it, and once we do, if it fails hard, then I don't want to see any crying about it. We gave it a shot, and it fell on its face, so GG wireless.

If it works, great, but you'd putting yourself in a position where your controller could ultimately decide the outcome of the match, so you have to accept responsibility for when it fails on you, as opposed to whining and crying about how it was unfair you lost a match because your batteries died and they wouldn't let you restart the match (which I already KNOW will happen; and then they'll come on here and have a huge cry fest about it).

 

[MookieRah]

The PS3 and 360 both have simple options to make their controllers wired. The Wii doesn't. That's the long and short of it.

Basically, it's Nintendo's fault for not providing a wired version of the wiimote, or simply some way to wire one up for anything like this, which could probably easily be done.

 

[Chi's Finest]

I don't see how that would rile me up, but feel free to read my response above. I guess I should go to a tournament and start cutting wired controllers to show you how easily the cords break since that is how I can "prove" it to people. Oh wait I was just making that up, just like the other guy.

That would be caused by an outside person, which could be the same person who turns off a TV, pickes up a system and throws it, pushes a player off their chair, etc.

The Wireless remotes/batteries/signals are all possible troubles that cannot be avoided by a person.

 

[Ixninjax]

I don't see how that would rile me up, but feel free to read my response above. I guess I should go to a tournament and start cutting wired controllers to show you how easily the cords break since that is how I can "prove" it to people. Oh wait I was just making that up, just like the other guy.

You should run a tourney and prove us all wrong

 

[Chi's Finest]

Basically, it's Nintendo's fault for not providing a wired version of the wiimote, which could probably easily be done.

True, there's no reaosn why they couldn't have had it plug into the GC controller ports.

btw:, you didn't post your sig I wanted to watch Mew2 evolve

 

[Deleted member]

I don't have a problem with people using the wiimotes at tournaments. But what they have to realize is that I'm not going to hold their hand when their wiimote disconnects or runs out of batteries. They don't get a "redo" because it de-synced and they died, or their batteries died, leaving them helpless. They won't receive special treatment for their "inferior" control setup (i.e. wired controllers do not have this problem).

I'm not going to address the whole syncing issue, because I can't really decide if it is going to be a minor nuisance or a huge problem. BUT if it is a huge problem, then I don't see how a soft/hard ban on wireless is going to be a huge deal, considering it will be necessary in order to complete the tournament.

We will have no way of knowing until we actually try it, and once we do, if it fails hard, then I don't want to see any crying about it. We gave it a shot, and it fell on its face, so GG wireless.

If it works, great, but you'd putting yourself in a position where your controller could ultimately decide the outcome of the match, so you have to accept responsibility for when it fails on you, as opposed to whining and crying about how it was unfair you lost a match because your batteries died and they wouldn't let you restart it.

I agree with this.

 

[Midboss]

Sliq's post pretty much sums up exactly what I've been saying here. Give it a shot even if you don't think it'll work, and then ban them when you're proven right. If you're somehow wrong, then that's great for those of us who actually like the wiimote control scheme, if not, we'll live and we'll get used to the Gamecube controller.

Edit: To clarify, I feel they should be given a chance at progressively larger events, not immediately permitted at something huge like an MLG tourney. Gotta start small, obviously if they fail in a 16 man smashfest they'll fail anywhere else too.

 

[Ixninjax]

I agree with this.

Thats basically a summary of what everybody else said, but you didn't agree with them...

 

[Deleted member]

Also people complain about having to sync the remotes will take up time...well guess what. If I bring my own Wiimote I just sync it and bam, my custom controls are right there. All GameCube users will have to customize their own controls every time they plug it in... The time it takes to sync a Wiimote won't be a big deal.

 

[Deleted member]

Thats basically a summary of what everybody else said, but you didn't agree with them...

No that isn't, if you've been following this thread everyone says it won't work and they shouldn't be allowed or even tried, period. You obviously haven't been involved in this conversation very long.