I foresee a controller problem for future tournaments

[Firebert]

ughh i think you can order em from nintendo? but I don't like buying online :D
3rd party controlers suck asdf

They sure do. I have one, unfortunately, and it is the lowest in quality among my controllers.

 

[PltnmNgl]

I just bought my GC controller for brawl a month ago. I still haven't opened it yet. I should put a post-it note that says " Do not open 'til Brawl." Ebay it up, my friend.

 

[Boa]

I suppose if my Gamecube controller dies on me after so many years of gameplay, I'll just have to learn to play with the Wiimote.

Gasp. I know, using something new. I'm sure to lose matches! *epeen deflates*

 

[Tony_]

Considering if you go to ebay and search for SNES controllers and get A TON of them, I'm thinking that a gamecube controller won't be too hard to come by.

You can't really trust E-bay when it comes to GC controllers. They might not be in good shape =\.

 

[MookieRah]

It's not so much about the learning curves of controllers for competitive people as much as the fact that the gamecube is the superior controller in terms of playing smash.

Also the controller ban has nothing to do with the preferences of the competitive scene either. They DON'T want to ban all wii-motes, but it is a necessary evil to prevent massive tournament problems.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It's not so much about the learning curves of controllers for competitive people as much as the fact that the gamecube is the superior controller in terms of playing smash.

Also the controller ban has nothing to do with the preferences of the competitive scene either. They DON'T want to ban all wii-motes, but it is a necessary evil to prevent massive tournament problems.

You're wrong. MLG hates wireless. In fact, they want to host ping pong tournaments instead because all the TV screens give them headaches. MookieRah, you don't know what you're talking about. Oh, but wireless paddles are not allowed either.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not so much about the learning curves of controllers for competitive people as much as the fact that the gamecube is the superior controller in terms of playing smash.

Also the controller ban has nothing to do with the preferences of the competitive scene either. They DON'T want to ban all wii-motes, but it is a necessary evil to prevent massive tournament problems.

That is complete bull****. You haven't had any lengthy amount of time with the Wiimote & Nunchuck or Classic Controller while playing Brawl. I think both of them can do just as good or better. Personally if I could choose I would pick the N64 controller over the GameCube controller any day, but for Brawl I'll be using Wiimote & Nunchuck since the buttons feel much better to me and the L & R on the GameCube bug the hell out of me. The new Wii analog stick on the Nunchuck feels better too even though it is similar.

It all comes down to personal preference but the GameCube controller is NOT the superior controller for playing Smash, maybe for you. The only reason most people like it so much is because they are used to it, that is ALL.

The only one that is DEFINITELY inferior is using JUST the Wiimote. All the other methods are just as capable as the GameCube controller.

 

[Firebert]

It's not so much about the learning curves of controllers for competitive people as much as the fact that the gamecube is the superior controller in terms of playing smash.

Also the controller ban has nothing to do with the preferences of the competitive scene either. They DON'T want to ban all wii-motes, but it is a necessary evil to prevent massive tournament problems.

It is the superior controller. Also, that would make tournaments, eh, "problematic" with the Wii-motes.

 

[Deleted member]

It is the superior controller. Also, that would make tournaments, eh, "problematic" with the Wii-motes.

Read my post above for some education.

 

[Weed]

Dang, and I always wanted to go to MLG :'(

*sobs while holding wavebird*

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

That is complete bull****. You haven't had any lengthy amount of time with the Wiimote & Nunchuck or Classic Controller while playing Brawl. I think both of them can do just as good or better. Personally if I could choose I would pick the N64 controller over the GameCube controller any day, but for Brawl I'll be using Wiimote & Nunchuck since the buttons feel much better to me and the L & R on the GameCube bug the hell out of me. The new Wii analog stick on the Nunchuck feels better too even though it is similar.

Neither have you, so how can say any of this with any credibility?

It all comes down to personal preference but the GameCube controller is NOT the superior controller for playing Smash, maybe for you. The only reason most people like it so much is because they are used to it, that is ALL.

And being used to it is an invalid reason? Regardless, the button layout on the Gamecube controller is far superior. I cannot fathom pressing the B trigger for special attacks (or any other function, really).

The only one that is DEFINITELY inferior is using JUST the Wiimote. All the other methods are just as capable as the GameCube controller.

Again, you've never played Brawl either, so you really are just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

 

[Deleted member]

Neither have you, so how can say any of this with any credibility?

And being used to it is an invalid reason? Regardless, the button layout on the Gamecube controller is far superior. I cannot fathom pressing the B trigger for special attacks (or any other function, really).

Again, you've never played Brawl either, so you really are just pulling this stuff out of thin air.

It's personal opinion, NO ONE is right. He said GameCube controller is superior as a fact which it is not. And I've played tons of games with the Wiimote and Nunchuck as well as the Classic Controller and it feels much better than the GameCube controller in my opinion (except when using dual analogs with the Classic Controller, but I don't c-stick anyway).

 

[MookieRah]

He said GameCube controller is superior as a fact which it is not.

I said it was the superior controller for smash, not for all games. It was designed for more traditional types of games, while the wii-mote + nunchuck was devised for more wii specific and interactive games. It's pretty obvious that because of that the wiimote + nunchucks would be a bit clunky in comparison. That's like saying Times New Roman is the best font for the web even though it was designed for books.

I'm not sure about the classic controller, I'd have to try that out, but I do think I remember that Gimpy and the others mentioned it was a bit overly sensitive. Still, the gamecube controller was seemingly built for smash and is far more intuitive for it than the more basic design of the classic.

 

[Deleted member]

I said it was the superior controller for smash, not for all games. It was designed for more traditional types of games, while the wii-mote + nunchuck was devised for more wii specific and interactive games. It's pretty obvious that because of that the wiimote + nunchucks would be a bit clunky in comparison. That's like saying Times New Roman is the best font for the web even though it was designed for books.

I'm not sure about the classic controller, I'd have to try that out, but I do think I remember that Gimpy and the others mentioned it was a bit overly sensitive. Still, the gamecube controller was seemingly built for smash and is far more intuitive for it than the more basic design of the classic.

Personally I find the Wiimote & Nunchuck most appealing. I've been "phantom playing" with it and it feels great to me, but to each his own. I can't get over the horrible L, R, and Z buttons on the GameCube controller. It's a real deal breaker for me (a huge fan of the 64 version). I'm used to blocking with Z on the bottom of the controller so I think B on the bottom of the Wiimote will work fine for me. It may not be the ideal solution for you but I easily see it as my favorite setup. And I meant "superior controller for Smash" which I still disagree with, we aren't talking about any other games here.

EDIT: The 360 controller works great for playing the 64 version online by the way...I love this controller besides the crappy d-pad but it isn't used for much anyway.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

How would one light shield with the Wiimote + Nunchuck?

 

[MookieRah]

How would one light shield with the Wiimote + Nunchuck?

You know, I was wanting an answer like that to respond with. Thanks for the help Ryoko.

@ShadowXOR
You are still missing my point. While you like the wiimote + nunchuck that doesn't make it the more viable controller for smash. I'm not saying you shouldn't play on it, but the button layout for those controllers were not designed to truly be used for a fighting game. Why do you think they gave us the choice of using a cube controller? Also, why would they make a classic controller?

Sakurai still realizes that people would like to play on Wiimotes, so he allowed it to be possible and to be fun, but it still isn't the most efficient layout for playing the game.

 

[Igneous42]

Nintendo seems to have stopped production of Gamecube controllers. This will be a problem because over time it will be harder to find a replacement for a controller that starts to go bad. Also what about the people that already sold there GC controllers or didn't have a GC to begin with? So bottom line is if nintendo doesn't continue production then using a GC controller will become not an option anymore. Tournaments like mlg ban wireless controllers...so this can pose a problem....

I think at this point MLG will be required to allow wireless, seing as how 3 of the 4 controllers for brawl are wireless, and it'd be biased to force people to use a certain shceme.

I'll probably play brawl with the wiimote and nunchuck because my GCN controller are getting older.

 

[Chi's Finest]

I think at this point MLG will be required to allow wireless, seing as how 3 of the 4 controllers for brawl are wireless, and it'd be biased to force people to use a certain shceme.

And 99% of Xbox 360 owners don't own a WIRED controller, but you have to go out and buy your own anyway. There's was like 1000 people there tht had to go ge a brand new controller just for the season, or even just one event.

 

[Igneous42]

And 99% of Xbox 360 owners don't own a WIRED controller, but you have to go out and buy your own anyway. There's was like 1000 people there tht had to go ge a brand new controller just for the season, or even just one event.

what about future PS3 games (do they make a wireless ps3 controller)? or what about future wii games that don't use the GCN controller? If MLG countinues this rule then I say who cares screw them.

 

[MookieRah]

I'm pretty sure they have wired PS3 controllers, I could have sworn my friend has one; although I might be mixing that up with a wired 360 controller, which is also very very possible.

 

[Team Giza]

I'm just gonna make my own controller unless the gamecube controller works better with Brawl than it did with melee. But thats besides the point.

I like the idea of using the wiimote+chuck but its not gonna work in a tournament environment no matter how much you want it. Anyone who was been to a tournament should be able to clearly see the problem with syncing to the wii... I already have problems syncing when there is only 2 wiis. Beyond that, it isn't too uncommon for wireless controls to mess up when there are multiple signals coming from every which way. I have had my wiimote desync and not want to sync up again when I was playing a wii game in the same room as two other wiis with 4 people on each (excluding mine). Even in the short time I have had a wii I have already experienced controller problems so it would not be a good idea to do this in tournaments.

 

[Testament27]

i dont see how how they can keep the ban on wireless when it comes to brawl. ITS A WII. ITS A SYSTEM BUILT AROUND WIRELESS. they will prob have inspections or something i guess but theres no way they wont allow wireless when it comes to brawl.

 

[Team Giza]

Just cause there is a system that is built around wireless does not mean its gonna work well with large tournaments. The Wiimotes have problems when there are many other wiis and wiimotes around. It is very difficult, frustrating, time consuming and glitchy to try and have wireless controller in large tournament environments.

 

[Chi's Finest]

PS3 has wired controllers also.

ALL the systems are built on wireless! It doesn't matter, it won't work in a tournament setting.

 

[Team Giza]

And yes, they use the wired controllers for PS3 tournaments. At least thats how they do it at the Virtua Fighter 5 tournaments near here.

 

[The Dragon]

ok im not sure, if this has been asked yet, only got to page 3 on 40 post/page but since the wii have 4 control schemes wont you still have to set up how you want your gc controller anyway or does it still come with the basic setting? I never looked into this so im hoping someone could answer it for me

 

[MookieRah]

ok im not sure, if this has been asked yet, only got to page 3 on 40 post/page but since the wii have 4 control schemes wont you still have to set up how you want your gc controller anyway or does it still come with the basic setting? I never looked into this so im hoping someone could answer it for me

People all too often already add their tags to tournament matches, considering how the layouts work it would just tag a few extra seconds to set the control scheme up properly. This is far less intrusive than having to deal with wiimote syncing problems.

 

[The Dragon]

yah thats what i was thinking but i wasnt sure, figured i'd ask thanks

 

[Alex Strife]

Well for me its like this... I am into the competitive Fighting Game Scene, as well as, the Halo scene and here is the truth about many reasons they dont consider wireless controllers good for tournament play. Here are a few games that can be used as examples.


Halo 3 / Doa4 + MLG games

- For one Wireless controllers are based on batteries. That fact alone can lead to someone not putting in new batteries and his dying out mid match.

ok cheap reason here are a few more

- simply put, Wireless controllers have a slight lag on 360/wii systems. Casual fans do not notice this but for me and others I notice the lag that , especially for fighting games, can ruin any effort/combo/etc that can be put in...best way to describe it is HD to TV as Wired is to Wireless.

- Most MLG tournaments that I went to covering the events for dpad/gotfrag I saw people with wireless controllers with a plug and play to take wireless aspect off.

- ok here is another thought. Whats a major issue during tournaments? Downtime. The time it takes to re-sync a Wii controller with a Wii with 2 or more systems next to each other would be a significant problem. Try doing it successfully 10 times and see how many times you can mess up. Infact try doing it while the other system does it as well. Plainly put it would take way too much time for any player to just set up their settings to play the game. Wired controllers get rid of that. Plug, play, and pull out.



Plain and simple its about getting rid of the down time. I ran a Gears of War 2v2 tournament and allowed wireless controllers and there were so many problems I banned them....MLG or any other organized tournament league ban wireless controllers to avoid those hassles and to avoid cheating...oh...you dont know how to cheat with a wireless huh?

Simply put you can mess up a signal with a 360 by pressing the little button on top of the wireless controller. I tried it with the wii and it worked as well. Though a wii is harder I would not put it pass the same people who know how to freeze Melee with Mewtwo.


Ok here is a recap

ITS A TIME CONSUMING PAIN IN THE NECK TO USE WIRELESS CONTROLLERS

there you go

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I was wanting an answer like that to respond with. Thanks for the help Ryoko.

@ShadowXOR
You are still missing my point. While you like the wiimote + nunchuck that doesn't make it the more viable controller for smash. I'm not saying you shouldn't play on it, but the button layout for those controllers were not designed to truly be used for a fighting game. Why do you think they gave us the choice of using a cube controller? Also, why would they make a classic controller?

Sakurai still realizes that people would like to play on Wiimotes, so he allowed it to be possible and to be fun, but it still isn't the most efficient layout for playing the game.

I disagree. I think that it is more than viable and would work excellent with a fighting game. What you keep stating as fact is nothing more than a poorly stated opinion. The Classic Controller was created for virtual console games that don't work well with the Wiimote and Nunchuck since none of them have customizable controls.

To be honest I think Sakurai only has the GameCube controller as compatible because too many Melee fans would be crybabies about it.

 

[The Dragon]

whether he added for whatever reason does not matter, what does is that the option for plug and play exist in the wii, so obviously tournament and competitve players would go with the choice that is easier to use, less time comsuming and generally causes less problems. Why is that so hard to understand?

edit 100th post

 

[Deleted member]

whether he added for whatever reason does not matter, what does is that the option for plug and play exist in the wii, so obviously tournament and competitve players would go with the choice that is easier to use, less time comsuming and generally causes less problems. Why is that so hard to understand?

I hope you aren't talking to me because we're debating something completely different than what you're talking about.

However I do think only allowing wireless is extremely stupid and I wouldn't waste my time participating in such limited play. Ban items, ban stages, ban controllers, no thanks. There will be nothing left soon.

 

[Alex Strife]

I hope you aren't talking to me because we're debating something completely different than what you're talking about.

However I do think only allowing wireless is extremely stupid and I wouldn't waste my time participating in such limited play. Ban items, ban stages, ban controllers, no thanks. There will be nothing left soon.

topic of the thread is about tournaments. Read what I wrote and you will see why all competitive tournaments, not just brawl, have a banned wireless rule. Time issues and wireless issues are reasons.

 

[Irow]

How would one light shield with the Wiimote + Nunchuck?

I'm pretty sure Gimpy said light shielding was out. And it's not because of the lack of pressure sensitive L or R. He tried Z-shielding as well and that didn't work. So regardless of controller, you just can't light shield at all.

 

[SleepyK]

That is complete bull****. You haven't had any lengthy amount of time with the Wiimote & Nunchuck or Classic Controller while playing Brawl. I think both of them can do just as good or better. Personally if I could choose I would pick the N64 controller over the GameCube controller any day, but for Brawl I'll be using Wiimote & Nunchuck since the buttons feel much better to me and the L & R on the GameCube bug the hell out of me. The new Wii analog stick on the Nunchuck feels better too even though it is similar.

It all comes down to personal preference but the GameCube controller is NOT the superior controller for playing Smash, maybe for you. The only reason most people like it so much is because they are used to it, that is ALL.

The only one that is DEFINITELY inferior is using JUST the Wiimote. All the other methods are just as capable as the GameCube controller.

Also the controller ban has nothing to do with the preferences of the competitive scene either. They DON'T want to ban all wii-motes, but it is a necessary evil to prevent massive tournament problems.

I really like how MookieRah's (hey mookie, what's up?) post was actually BEFORE shadow's.

 

[Livvers]

To be honest I think Sakurai only has the GameCube controller as compatible because too many Melee fans would be crybabies about it.

Quoted right from the Dojo:

There’s no need to be confused about what does what—just choose the play style you prefer!

I suppose I would recommend the Nintendo GameCube controller, though. I like the feel of that powerful rumble.

Still, try out the other controls—they definitely give you a fresh experience.

And no, I don't think he said that just for the rumble.

If the control theme was inferior, I doubt he would have kept it.

 

[CHAOSDRAGON88]

I plan on using all the control schemes. wiimote casually, gc tournament wise.

 

[Irow]

The gamecube controller would just be less hassle. And honestly, most competitive players will stick with gamecube, I don't think we have to worry too much about wireless interference.

 

[Nothingman]

i made my own thread about this, but it got quickly shut down, so i'll just copy and paste here:

Hi everyone, im new here, long time lurker.
I was inspired to sign up and start this thread after hearing the last SMYN (#22) and noticing that it didnt have a great discussion about the controls update. So i guess I can quickly introduce myself.

My names Jimmy, but i'd rather go by Nothingman, Nman, 0man, what have you. Im a california born american smasher that currently is living in fukuoka japan, though i should be back in the US around next september. (yay, brawl 2 weeks early! ^^). in melee i juggle DK, Falcon, and Samus. I have quite a bit of competitive fighting game background and I love the smash games. Nice to meet you all.

Anyway, onto the controls discussion, and to start it off, i'll use this anecdote:

Im a big Street Fighter 3: third strike competitive player. in this game, i much prefer joystick controls over control pad controls, and for 1 reason. my entire right hand is used to press attack buttons. this is much faster, 5 fingers (and yes i use them all) pressing 6 buttons works much better than my thumb on 4-6 buttons. believe it or not, the time it takes to move your thumb from one button to another is a factor, most definitely in a game like melee and probably brawl.

now, looking at the four control schemes they gave us in last weeks update, i can already tell im going to use the Nun-chuck scheme. why is this? simple

if you notice, all movement is mapped to your left hand. jumping, shielding, shield rolling, dodging, moving. all of it. this leaves your right hand to concentrate solely on attacks. this is a big deal. where as in melee, you had to both jump and attack with your right thumb, it should go much faster with the nunchuck.

but this isnt even the half of it.


http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamem...14_071126f.jpg

now if you notice, you're going to have two fingers on your right hand solely for 2 attack buttons. combined, you can throw (which i think is a great addition)

also notice that the wiimote d-pad, by default, just has a bunch of crap mapped to it that you can already do with your left hand. so heres where it gets better. if you can map movement controls to that d-pad, you just opened a whole world of possibilities.

imagine if you will that you switched the special and normal attack functions on the wiimote. this means you're going to be using your trigger finger for normal attacks, most of the time, with a special here and there thrown in by your right thumb, which will mostly be free.

if youre right thumb is free, then you can use it to input a second directional movement on that little d-pad. that would make things like using an up-tilt WHILE running to the right with you left hand much easier. this puts a whole new level of control into the competitive scene.

im not sure about this shake smash feature (could or could not work depending on how jerky it is.) but you could essentially pull off things like:

ice climbers, you run to the right using your left hand, use your right thumb to press up on the wiimote d-pad and hit attack with your right trigger finger, causing an uptilt attack (you cant smash with a d pad) at the same time you could make nana up smash by shaking your wii mote. all the while your left hand could be mostly free to throw in short hops and shields and what not.
this kind of movement would be incredibly hard to pull off with the game cube control because of finger limitations.

i'm mostly just plugging what i think would be that best control scheme, and i know it sounds a little akward. but i think it opens up so many more possibilities in the competitive scene, where controls and speed are big issues. this makes advanced techniques much easier to pull off, because you have so many more layers of control.

two hands (one movement and one attack oriented), but also your right thumb could input a second direction (which wouldnt provoke smashing, just tilts) while your right index finger would take care of attacks, and your wrist could handle smash attacks.

thats a whole lot better than your right thumb on both attacks, jumping, and c stick smashes i think.

anyone else see the possibilities of this control set up in the right hands with enough experience?

 

[THISISYOURPILOTSPEAKING]

Maybe you should learn to use a wiimote then. I doubt they would continue the ban on wireless controllers, seeing as all three of the big systems use them as main controllers (Wii, 360 and PS3)