Meta I can sense your aura : The Lucario metagame thread

[_Malal]

None of our aerials are really great at hitting people post-trump in my experience, although we get easy trump set-up by stalling with dair over the ledge.

I think the real meat of trumping is getting back onto the ground afterwards.

It they go for the ledge again they have no invincibility, vulnerable to instant dair/ftilt/dtilt/Full Charge Aurasphere if it's wide enough

If they jump onstage to avoid this, business as usual with land traps.

That being said, there's been some hub-bub about sweet-spotting having a vulnerable period

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

I am unsure if this is just an omega stage issue as discussed in the social discussion when it was happening to someone on Omega Kalos

But if it is legitimate perhaps we have reliable set-ups for dair damage/kills? (Really doubtful on kills, since if it becomes a consistent punish, it will no longer have the surprise factor that prevents people from teching nonspikes)

 

[Jaxas]

None of our aerials are really great at hitting people post-trump in my experience, although we get easy trump set-up by stalling with dair over the ledge.

I think the real meat of trumping is getting back onto the ground afterwards.

It they go for the ledge again they have no invincibility, vulnerable to instant dair/ftilt/dtilt/Full Charge Aurasphere if it's wide enough

If they jump onstage to avoid this, business as usual with land traps.

That being said, there's been some hub-bub about sweet-spotting having a vulnerable period

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

I am unsure if this is just an omega stage issue as discussed in the social discussion when it was happening to someone on Omega Kalos

But if it is legitimate perhaps we have reliable set-ups for dair damage/kills? (Really doubtful on kills, since if it becomes a consistent punish, it will no longer have the surprise factor that prevents people from teching nonspikes)

It's legit, however this is actually a big problem for Lucario after the patch nerf to ES' landing lag...

Works on all stages; Ledge grabs are not invincible starting frame 1.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmmm, I kinda wanna see what moves we can use to hit people with who grab the ledge a second time...

I was able to hit a Villager with DSmash after he regrabbed it after a trump on For Glory last night.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Hmmm, I kinda wanna see what moves we can use to hit people with who grab the ledge a second time...

I was able to hit a Villager with DSmash after he regrabbed it after a trump on For Glory last night.

Dsmash is not reliable on most characters, similarly to brawl it's how they hang on the ledge.
Much like in brawl how you could SideB a ness off the ledge is the same kind of mechanic that you can dsmash them.

Honestly FC AS is the most reliable option for a post-trump ledge. Dtilt/Ftilt are options if yours isn't fully charged.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

http://smashboards.com/threads/wip-...d-values-standard-characters-complete.383217/

Apparently we move faster in the air than Marth and Lucina. Wat.

 

[young grasshopper]

http://smashboards.com/threads/wip-...d-values-standard-characters-complete.383217/

Apparently we move faster in the air than Marth and Lucina. Wat.

Cool, although I don't think that took momentum into account. I'm pretty sure marth and lucina have better air speed when they jump out of a dash

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Cool, although I don't think that took momentum into account. I'm pretty sure marth and lucina have better air speed when they jump out of a dash

Still, that means if they try a retreating FAir you might be able to catch them OoS depending on how they spaced it.

Hmmm, that would be hilarious if we could reliably punish more retreats with our BAir.

There is some weird momentum thing with Shield DI. I fully didn't realize it until after Brawl died, but I knew there was something else I was overlooking.

I need to do some Air Walk tests as well because I am having a harder time doing horizontal Air Walks.

 

[Pitbuller26]

I've been messing around with Nair. It makes a good aerial to harass people with when they're above you while we're grounded. The best time to use it is when they're too high for an up air, but we force them to do something due to Nair's 2 hits. It definitely shines on Battlefield where we can safely harass with it while the opponent is on a platform.

Nair is also a good jump in move too if you manage to short hop over an opponent's projectile or a whiffed move. It can pretty much lead to a grab, jab or up tilt depending on positioning.

 

[Jay-kun]

Dsmash is not reliable on most characters, similarly to brawl it's how they hang on the ledge.
Much like in brawl how you could SideB a ness off the ledge is the same kind of mechanic that you can dsmash them.

Honestly FC AS is the most reliable option for a post-trump ledge. Dtilt/Ftilt are options if yours isn't fully charged.

I find d-smash very unreliable on any character because I always hear to use it when you know your opponent is going to roll, I thought: "If you know that your opponent is rolling behind you, why not use a f-smash behind you?" 's d-smash knocks the opponent very low, which can lead to potential follow up's, I guess. The only other way I find it useful is when you and your opponent are on the edge. Hmmm, maybe with the new-potential of glide-tossing we can use d-smash to our advantage. gilde-tosses a metal blade; your d-smash clanks with the projectile, destroying it at higher %'s; derps halfway through the glide because he realizes he is going straight into your d-smash.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Mario can roll behind you when you FSmash, so your opponent may shield or even roll again before it comes out. It is so slow lol. FSmash is really good for hard reads and spacing mindgames, but don't overly rely on it.

DSmash is great because it covers a wide area and comes out a bit quicker than FSmash. Plus you will still hit Mario if he capes you lol. Using it for punishes is ideal.

Another thing about DSmash is it is especially great vs. characters with bad recoveries if you send them offstage with DSmash it may take their stock.

 

[Jay-kun]

Mario can roll behind you when you FSmash, so your opponent may shield or even roll again before it comes out. It is so slow lol. FSmash is really good for hard reads and spacing mindgames, but don't overly rely on it.

DSmash is great because it covers a wide area and comes out a bit quicker than FSmash. Plus you will still hit Mario if he capes you lol. Using it for punishes is ideal.

Another thing about DSmash is it is especially great vs. characters with bad recoveries if you send them offstage with DSmash it may take their stock.

You are completely right but Mario is one character out of 52(?) so yeah..

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Dr. Mario :B

Aim to get good with all of Lucario's moves or at least know when they can hit. That will open up many more options.

I need to work on doing pivot DSmash. FSmash so slow that even with a pivot sometimes characters like Falcon just run in and get that easy grab.

 

[Jay-kun]

Dr. Mario :B

Aim to get good with all of Lucario's moves or at least know when they can hit. That will open up many more options.

I need to work on doing pivot DSmash. FSmash so slow that even with a pivot sometimes characters like Falcon just run in and get that easy grab.

Ikr or you can RAR aura sphere and troll them evrytime..also aura sphere charging if you begin charging while a person is in it you are pretty much guaranteed all the hits (unless they have master DI skillz!)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

RAR Aura Sphere is kind of a bad idea. That's asking to get DSmashed by like every character in the roster.

BReversal Aura Sphere is very risky at high level play because you may get smacked anyway.

Aura Sphere kinda neutralizes horizontal momentum.

 

[~Radiance~]

On that note I think that wave bounce AS is a good. Mixup of uses situationally. I've seen some good plays by junebug jumping in with a spaced fair, DIing back and then wave bouncing the AS charge onto them

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Peeking in some character forums a number of them are plowing through match-ups.

Anyone mind if I head off match-ups? It would probably really help people glean more of the pros and cons of this character.

 

[Croi]

I was thinking of making one myself, but I wanted to wait until Apex was over, just because the game is just young enough for us to not really know wtf and a big tournament like Apex would help kickstart us.

 

[Steam]

Peeking in some character forums a number of them are plowing through match-ups.

Anyone mind if I head off match-ups? It would probably really help people glean more of the pros and cons of this character.

go for it. I was wanting to wait but we can go ahead and get a hub thread started and move on to exports if people want.

 

[RT]

Croi brings up a good point, it'd be nice to see what Apex brings (besides weird rules) before really starting discussion.

 

[Croi]

On a different topic, can someone explain what a roll-cancelled grab is, and if it's an effective tool for Lucario?

 

[Pitbuller26]

You cancel the first few frames of a roll with a grab and it's an effective tool for nearly every character. If a move pushes you too far, sometimes a dash grab won't punish, a roll cancel grab will.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmmm, I kinda wanna see what moves we can use to hit people with who grab the ledge a second time...

I was able to hit a Villager with DSmash after he regrabbed it after a trump on For Glory last night.

I haven't tested out too much, but Force Palm flame can hit someone on the ledge, but it is kinda risky and the spacing is a little strict.

DSmash is very character dependent.

 

[Ulevo]

On that note I think that wave bounce AS is a good. Mixup of uses situationally. I've seen some good plays by junebug jumping in with a spaced fair, DIing back and then wave bouncing the AS charge onto them

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[Jay-kun]

so anything (new) worth telling senpai~<3 about? ~<3

 

[Croi]

Didn't you drop Lucario? There was a whole thread about it.

 

[Jay-kun]

Didn't you drop Lucario? There was a whole thread about it.

Who?~<3

 

[Opana]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPq2Ang-YvU

Works at low percents depending on the moves knockback, although choke has set knockback so maybe this will always work?

 

[Jay-kun]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPq2Ang-YvU

Works at low percents depending on the moves knockback, although choke has set knockback so maybe this will always work?

:o

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPq2Ang-YvU

Works at low percents depending on the moves knockback, although choke has set knockback so maybe this will always work?

If we can ES can we do any other specials like Force Palm?

 

[Steam]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPq2Ang-YvU

Works at low percents depending on the moves knockback, although choke has set knockback so maybe this will always work?

cannot recreate, send help.

 

[Opana]

If we can ES can we do any other specials like Force Palm?

Tested and I don't believe so, hits that allow it with es don't for others.

cannot recreate, send help.

Has weird timing, it's like right as they hit you or maybe fight before. Just mashing it through an attack should make it happen if possible. Can't test choke though, nobody to tsst with atm.

 

[Loota]

It could also just be differences between the 3DS and the WiiU version as UpB can still cancel all normals landing lag on 3DS while it doesn't work on WiiU anymore (I miss it so much ;_; ). Our Battefield bthrow stagespike on Sheik, ZSS and Mac doesn't work either on WiiU.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPq2Ang-YvU

Works at low percents depending on the moves knockback, although choke has set knockback so maybe this will always work?

Welp... I tested it and it only seems to work on the 3DS version (I was able to do it first attempt on For Glory). I tried it in 1/4 Speed on the Wii U Ver even with smash DI up, doesn't work.

 

[RT]

Yeah, it is not equal gameplay on both versions. I wonder if a patch will come out with Mewtwo release to fix this, if they even care...

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah, it is not equal gameplay on both versions. I wonder if a patch will come out with Mewtwo release to fix this, if they even care...

M2! ~<3

 

[Pentao]

So Rosalina and Luma have been a pretty big issue for me. I feel like I can't do much against n-air (because you can't shield grab it, and she can just f-tilt or something dumb with huge range and Luma doubling it when she lands), and I find myself blocking too much because that dash attack is really dumb.

Force Palm blasting Luma is only an option at higher percents and otherwise gets me punished, and I can't charge Aura sphere as often. I don't have a lot of experience in the match up, what moves should I be looking for to get punishes? How do I open Rosaluma up?

 

[Croi]

Dash attack will send Luma flying, it's a really easy way to get it off stage and out of your hair for a little bit.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Only ways Rosalina could beat a Lucario are:

• The Lucario rushes in recklessly.
• Lucario does not space vs. Luma.
• The Lucario does not try to pressure Luma.
• The Lucario does not know how to dodge her attacks. (Stop air dodging into her USmash.)

You know if you shield DI towards a lot of air attacks (or attacks in general)... You can get the grab a lot more.

Take Link's NAir for example, try grabbing him with no shield DI. Then hold your shield towards him and you'll easily get the grab a lot more.

I should study Shield SDI in this game since SDI seems less nerfed than DI in comparison to Brawl.

 

[Pentao]

Well, with APEX pretty much wrapped up for Smash4, we oughta get started on those Smash 4 Match-up threads.

Did any Lucario players make it into top 32? I didn't see any in the top 16 thread at least.

 

[Croi]

I can make the MU thread if nobody else wants to.