I am so ashamed to post this as an Ike mainer...

[Kinzer]

But I lost to a freaking Jigglypuff! I am so frustrated right now I can't even think straight and logical enough to think how I couldn't pop a **** balloon for a fighter!!

Unfortunately I do not have a video but it basicaly went like this.

The puffball would jump to heights I couldn't reach even with Aether and to sides of battlegrounds where trying to approach it in the air would be suicide. When I let jigglypuff approach me I couldn't counter because the stupid thing would just move to the other side and punish me for it, and if i tried to hit it my attacks would either be outprioritized or it was too slow to come out so it hit me anyway, HELP ME FOR GODS SAKE I DON'T WANT THIS TO EVER COME TO BE AGAIN!!!!!!!

 

[Alus]

its not always what you do wrong...it can be what your opponent is doing right.

 

[Rykoshet]

You got baited, you're not patient enough, and you didnt retreat your aerials.

Voila.

 

[Kinzer]

its not always what you do wrong...it can be what your opponent is doing right.

I didn't really get that part.

You got baited, you're not patient enough, and you didnt retreat your aerials.

Voila.

What do you mean by retreat my aerials?

 

[Rykoshet]

Uh... retreat (fall back, move back) while doing an aerial (a move that is executed in the air). This is not a 100% safe maneuver but if you're trying to beat jigglypuff in the air you're not going to do it with priority so you have to do it with range.

 

[Akashi]

Jump backwards and hit your c-stick forward, aka your fair isn't effecting your retreating DI.

edit: wtf beaten to the punchline!

 

[metroid1117]

Ike can effectively shut out Jigglypuff with more than just retreating FAirs; UTilt and USmash work as well. Try baiting your opponent to waste their jumps so they have to land; get in a grab when that happens so that you can dominate the match from there.

 

[fire_wulf]

A good jiggs is actually hard to beat because they can bait you so well. And if you end up off stage.... good luck getting back... having multiple jumps means Jiggs can just carry you farther out and away from the edge.

This whole battle is about spacing and patience. You have to wait for a mistake.. or make them make a mistake. When that happens... Jiggs is easily killed going up... I love killing with the Utilt... so try to keep that move fresh for when they get high damage.

 

[Ussi]

jiggs is definably a match of patience. And don't be ashamed you lost to a jiggs. Its the player that matters, not character. But you can kill jiggs after 3-5 hits. and well, jiggs attacks from usually the sides, meaning if you can really predict jiggs well, a forward smash can send her flying to death at 40%. Otherwise you'll have to get her to 70~80% for a usmash/utilt/uair/ftilt

Jiggs have a dair > rest combo to watch for. Rest is still strong so it'll kill you by 80~90%. So, its a battle on who can get the other person to killing % first. You have the advantage here since your attacks kill cause more damage and since Jiggs is hit and fly tactic, she'll be doing one WoP then retreat. Well, if you can do well enough, you'll avoid it or get hit only 1-2 times there by taking less damage then what you inflict on jiggs. But you both have ways of destroying each other at earlier percents. You with a forward smash and spike, and her with a WoP of the stage sending you too far to recover.

Jiggs has a 2nd move that kills, rollout. This is a mind game kill, you have two options for this. If you can do this well, you can counter this. BUT, jiggs can change directions 3 times. She can bait you to counter then strike and kill you. Jiggs normally will do rollout recovering to the stage. When it comes to FD, you HAVE to jump/dodge/counter it. Any other stage, you have a platform to jump to or stay on so you don't risk getting hit and missing counter. THE WORST CASE THAT CAN HAPPEN IS: you counter and rollout goes THRU you, then your ****ed when jiggs changes directions. BTW you can outrange it and hit jiggs out of it, buts its not recommended if you are new to it.

Here is what i do to handle jiggs. I gound stalk her. Cause, well, stalling is banned normally, so jiggs WILL have to come down eventually since you can't reach her. Ground stalk and prepare to counter attack what she throws at you, whether you use retreating fair/utilt/usmash/angled up ftilt/nair is up to you. jiggs will always be in the air, so, you won't be using jab that much. Heck, this battle will all be, fair, nair, usmash, utilt, uair and the bair. Jab will come out every now and then cause jiggs does have to land, but you won't be using jab too much if you play right. You'll be just hitting jiggs to far away. utilt and bair are you best kill moves. Uair is a bit hard to pull off, but if you do it'll kill. Usmash has post lag jiggs can take advantage of and it's slowerShort hop bair will do well to hit jiggs away from you, but don't miss with it now

Best stage is a low ceiling stage. Like Halberd, and STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM JUNGLE JAPES

well back to my vacation now,

 

[PCHU]

If Jiggz is doing rollout to recover, isn't there always the option of the mighty fsmash?
It'd be truly amazing to actually have somebody in a situation where their only choice is death.

 

[Tenki]

If Jiggz is doing rollout to recover, isn't there always the option of the mighty fsmash?
It'd be truly amazing to actually have somebody in a situation where their only choice is death.

it's possible to sweetspot the edge with rollout.

 

[Ussi]

You can always, counter instead of fsmash PCHU

it's possible to sweetspot the edge with rollout.

this is where you either outrange jiggs before she hits the ledge, or edge hog and she flies down to her death.

 

[PCHU]

But admit, Fsmash looks cooler.
I don't know.
If you can hit Jiggz with it, it's an easy win.
Counter isn't always that great, as in it doesn't always kill.
I've countered Snake's fsmash, but it didn't kill him.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I'm sorry, but this thread is INSULTING to Jigglypuff mainers like myself. Ike mainers shouldn't even be the one to talk. I've only lost to really good Ikes with Jigglypuff but the rest can't beat me. Jigglypuff gimps ike super easily. there should be no shame losing against Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff is an excellent edgegaurder and Ike is a terrible recover.

 

[PCHU]

There's always the option of "If I'm gonna die anyway, you're coming with me!".
By that I mean see if you can aether the puff to their death with you, so at least you know that they didn't succeed in gimping.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Any good Jigglypuff mainer would see that coming far away and avoid it. And if Ike is at a lower stock the Jigglypuff, well then Jigglypuffs got nothing to lose.

 

[PCHU]

True.
I'm just saying it's better to take someone with you then die alone.

Or perhaps a stage spike before your death?

But then again, who says Jiggz is going to even GET Ike to the ledge?
I've played against a really good Jiggz, but he/she RELIED ON ME COMING TO THE LEDGE for their KOs.
It IS difficult if you're both good players, so I don't really know what else to say besides do your best and time EVERYTHING correctly.

 

[Ussi]

@Jigglymaster

Yes Jiggs can WoP Ike way of the stage, i made that note, its the only way Jiggs can win the match in my opinion.

But Ikes, well at least me, LOVE the center of the stage. Except against Olimar

 

[Jigglymaster]

True.
I'm just saying it's better to take someone with you then die alone.

Or perhaps a stage spike before your death?

But then again, who says Jiggz is going to even GET Ike to the ledge?
I've played against a really good Jiggz, but he/she RELIED ON ME COMING TO THE LEDGE for their KOs.
It IS difficult if you're both good players, so I don't really know what else to say besides do your best and time EVERYTHING correctly.

The thing is, Ike can camp no more than Jigglypuff can. He dosn't have projectiles. The only real tough ikes i've played online are Edo and Ren and they approach with the f air. Plain and simple, if you don't know how to f air approch with Ike you can't beat a good Jigglypuff player. Dash attacks, b foward, and all smash attacks are super predicatlbe.

 

[Kodachrome]

Ussi, you should learn to get comfy offstage a bit more. It makes for fun ko's. I would never really recommend this against a jigglypuff, unless you somehow manage to aetherspike them and grab the edge so you can edgeguard...Even then they're most likely getting back, whether or not you decide to throw an aerial their way.. =/

 

[Ussi]

i play to win >_> not to give cool looking KOs that could lead to me dying/back fire on me. I am trying to do some off stage edge guarding, but not on jigss -.-;; But I love the center since i can kill there but others can't.

 

[Trapt497]

its not always what you do wrong...it can be what your opponent is doing right.

QFT

Kinzer, don't worry, sometimes you just have to realize that even though the tiers say you were 'supposed' to win, anyone can pick up a character regardless of their tier level and destroy people if they work hard enough. Just don't worry about it. Your going to come acroos amazing players that play seemingly sucky characters...or so you think, until they win.

 

[Kinzer]

Okay I am really suprised by all teh feedback I got and I just want to say a few things.

Jump backwards and hit your c-stick forward, aka your fair isn't effecting your retreating DI.

edit: wtf beaten to the punchline!

While that may help somebody who plays with a GC controller, I play with the wiimote on its own...go ahead, I know somebody out tehre wants to say how much it puts you at a handicap with...

jiggs is definably a match of patience. And don't be ashamed you lost to a jiggs. Its the player that matters, not character. But you can kill jiggs after 3-5 hits. and well, jiggs attacks from usually the sides, meaning if you can really predict jiggs well, a forward smash can send her flying to death at 40%. Otherwise you'll have to get her to 70~80% for a usmash/utilt/uair/ftilt

Jiggs have a dair > rest combo to watch for. Rest is still strong so it'll kill you by 80~90%. So, its a battle on who can get the other person to killing % first. You have the advantage here since your attacks kill cause more damage and since Jiggs is hit and fly tactic, she'll be doing one WoP then retreat. Well, if you can do well enough, you'll avoid it or get hit only 1-2 times there by taking less damage then what you inflict on jiggs. But you both have ways of destroying each other at earlier percents. You with a forward smash and spike, and her with a WoP of the stage sending you too far to recover.

Jiggs has a 2nd move that kills, rollout. This is a mind game kill, you have two options for this. If you can do this well, you can counter this. BUT, jiggs can change directions 3 times. She can bait you to counter then strike and kill you. Jiggs normally will do rollout recovering to the stage. When it comes to FD, you HAVE to jump/dodge/counter it. Any other stage, you have a platform to jump to or stay on so you don't risk getting hit and missing counter. THE WORST CASE THAT CAN HAPPEN IS: you counter and rollout goes THRU you, then your ****ed when jiggs changes directions. BTW you can outrange it and hit jiggs out of it, buts its not recommended if you are new to it.

Here is what i do to handle jiggs. I gound stalk her. Cause, well, stalling is banned normally, so jiggs WILL have to come down eventually since you can't reach her. Ground stalk and prepare to counter attack what she throws at you, whether you use retreating fair/utilt/usmash/angled up ftilt/nair is up to you. jiggs will always be in the air, so, you won't be using jab that much. Heck, this battle will all be, fair, nair, usmash, utilt, uair and the bair. Jab will come out every now and then cause jiggs does have to land, but you won't be using jab too much if you play right. You'll be just hitting jiggs to far away. utilt and bair are you best kill moves. Uair is a bit hard to pull off, but if you do it'll kill. Usmash has post lag jiggs can take advantage of and it's slowerShort hop bair will do well to hit jiggs away from you, but don't miss with it now

Best stage is a low ceiling stage. Like Halberd, and STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM JUNGLE JAPES

well back to my vacation now,

Patience is a virtue...got it, thanks a lot. Also yeah I avoid rollout at all costs, I have tried to counter it but the Jiggly always just recoils and comes back to me when counter is down, it would be ncie is somebody could tell me a better way to punish this, or is learning to counter it at the right time the only way to punish this? Also consider this, yes stages with platforms are theorically "safer" however I played a Jiggly that would mindgame me and just start rollout of I jumped on a platform and it would either catch me off gaurd or I would get lucky enough to dodge that, any thoughts on this?

I'm sorry, but this thread is INSULTING to Jigglypuff mainers like myself. Ike mainers shouldn't even be the one to talk. I've only lost to really good Ikes with Jigglypuff but the rest can't beat me. Jigglypuff gimps ike super easily. there should be no shame losing against Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff is an excellent edgegaurder and Ike is a terrible recover.

I am sorry if this had insulted you as I did not mean any of it, however try and put yourself in my shoes. I play a real "fast" powerhouse who also happens to have a lot going for him, low damage KO's, really good range for somebody who does a lot of "in your face combat", you tend to get frustrated when a pink furry creature liek jigglypuff can outprioritize some of your attacks, and it has short stubby arms? Or how about for those short stubby arms some of its attacks have a lot of power behind them and come out faster than you can throw your attacks out there. And yes i am well aware that with Jigglypuffs capabilities it? can edgegaurd pretty good, not to mention this only makes it worse that I play a guy who has poor recovery, I just wanted some more experienced people to help me so I can return Ike's glory.

QFT

Kinzer, don't worry, sometimes you just have to realize that even though the tiers say you were 'supposed' to win, anyone can pick up a character regardless of their tier level and destroy people if they work hard enough. Just don't worry about it. Your going to come acroos amazing players that play seemingly sucky characters...or so you think, until they win.

I don't believe in the tier list, this only gives you a false sense of security, like everybody else has been saying, I either never knew how to fight a good Jigglypuff or I just sucked with Ike fighting a Jigglypuff, but yeah I was just really angry at the time I made the post.

 

[Fatmanonice]

If Jiggz is doing rollout to recover, isn't there always the option of the mighty fsmash?

Too slow and you really have to time it right to land it in this case. When I play as Ike and I know my opponents are going to come back to the stage via a horizontal recovery, I space myself right and time an eruption. If you release it a little late, it's no big deal because Ike will still go through the attack because of the Super Armor frames you get right before he drives his sword into the ground.

 

[Akashi]

@Kinzer: A tier list doesn't give a false sense of security, it's a blueprint for potential. It disregards advantages/disadvantages on x vs. x, and goes straight to what techs/metagames the character possesses. The reason why Ike will never be the BEST character IF everyone's skills were the same is because of the reasons you already mentioned. Yes, we all love being the underdog, and killing a good MK is an amazing feeling, but the tier list is there for a reason. <_<

 

[Trapt497]

@Kinzer: A tier list doesn't give a false sense of security, it's a blueprint for potential. It disregards advantages/disadvantages on x vs. x, and goes straight to what techs/metagames the character possesses. The reason why Ike will never be the BEST character IF everyone's skills were the same is because of the reasons you already mentioned. Yes, we all love being the underdog, and killing a good MK is an amazing feeling, but the tier list is there for a reason. <_<

But what he's saying is that a lot of times the tiers make you believe character x > character y, and while this may be true, it sometimes blinds us from the fact that any character in the game can be used for its potential to the max and beat high tier characters. He's not calling them 'incorrect,' he's just saying that the tiers make us think sometimes that if character x > character y, sometimes we tend to overgeneralize and think that character x will win hands down (set in stone).

 

[Rykoshet]

Truth of the matter is that blatantly ignoring your character's disadvantages puts you in an unprepared state to overcome them. Accept that ike is flawed in ways that many other characters are not and you will be driven to be that much better to get around it, period.

Edit: "Spider-man vs. Superboy: Spider-man won". There's no way on a character design level that spider-man should have even been able to touch super-boy. He's a low tier hero, as it were. Sure he won due to a popularity contest but the writers had to come up with a plausible way a severely disadvantaged hero would win against such a stronger character. What did he do? He played experience and knowing his surroundings on his opponent. He essentially counterpicked superboy. Similarly, a tier list a good way to view the statement of "I cant win" instead as the question "What can I do to make me win?"

 

[Onomanic]

JK but I get owned by Jiggs all the time. AgentAO beat all my chars until MK. Broken *******, that MK.

 

[Immortal_One]

I wouldn't be ashamed to loose to a Jigglypuff with Ike, I would be impressed. Every character has amazing potential, it just takes a level of skill to bring it out. Even though I'm terrible with Jigglypuff, I'm a little insulted at the fact that you even begin to criticize someone who is good with Jigglypuff. It's not what you did wrong, it's what they did great.

 

[__V]

Space with Nair...

 

[Kinzer]

^
IO

Okay when did I criticize the Jiggly I fought, all I said is what that thing would do that I would have trouble countering, jeez people read the post carefully before you make yourself look like you just want to make your e-peen look bigger, and no I am not insulting YOU now, I am just telling you to be cautious.

You know what I even said I was sorry to the person, I only say it one more time, I did not mean to be a jerk, I just wanted help. From now on I will only read comments that are what this thread was meant for in the first place, any remarks that don't involve the original idea of this thread will be disregarded. I am sick and tired of being gunned down for what I say, most of the time I am either joking around or I am enraged/having adrenaline flowing through me after frustrating fights, this case though I asked for help, not a flame war.