B Link
Smash Lord
Because the other stages would get lonely.
I don't understand counterpicks either; is someone willing to explain?
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Hyrule should be counterpick only
- Thread starter Zack353
- Start date
I don't understand counterpicks either; is someone willing to explain?
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
I agree. I think I've said this a million times, but the idea of "counterpick stages" is a relic from old-school Melee in which the first stage was picked randomly from the list of neutral stages, and counterpicks were deemed too unfair to be chosen randomly. There's no point in the existence of counterpicks with the current stage-striking system because you are presumably striking to the most fair stage for the match-up anyways. The only reason for having counterpicks is to keep the number of neutral stages odd so you can strike from it fairly lol, like how it is with the current system. I guess you could argue for Peach's Castle to replace Hyrule in the neutral list though.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
Peach's is equally stupid to everybody and kills recoveries even moreso than Dreamland. Not a great neutral stage, I would vouch for Zebes before it.
The idea of counterpick stages only really exists in smash, merely because characters are better on certain stages than others, which can be enough to tilt matchups back to even or advantageous (see: Link everything bar Pika/Fox, Fox Falcon, etc). I guess it's just an alternate to character counterpicking in some cases - ie Fox and Link would obviously CP to Hyrule in most cases...perhaps it's the difference between broken and specifically-abusable that keeps stages in CP and not outright banned, but that sounds dumb even to me.
Smash is just a game where everything goes and it's not quite as super serious as traditional fighters, so maybe people just want to make the most of this and promote diversity, hence an expanded stagelist, along the lines of not outright banning Drizzle in Pokemon.
The idea of counterpick stages only really exists in smash, merely because characters are better on certain stages than others, which can be enough to tilt matchups back to even or advantageous (see: Link everything bar Pika/Fox, Fox Falcon, etc). I guess it's just an alternate to character counterpicking in some cases - ie Fox and Link would obviously CP to Hyrule in most cases...perhaps it's the difference between broken and specifically-abusable that keeps stages in CP and not outright banned, but that sounds dumb even to me.
Smash is just a game where everything goes and it's not quite as super serious as traditional fighters, so maybe people just want to make the most of this and promote diversity, hence an expanded stagelist, along the lines of not outright banning Drizzle in Pokemon.
rawrimamonster
Smash Ace
Thinking into the future, realistically speaking. Do you guys really expect your smash 64 carts to last much longer? I mean sure theres always a replacement you can buy but lets be realistic here, they're gonna **** out sooner or later. I think with a game like smash 64, you guys could easily move tournament play to PC/laptop only. Dont get your panties in an immediate twist console-only guys, im not talking about online play...**** kaillera. I'll just get to the point...
move hyrule to counterpick, open up battlefield as a neutral. Everyones using a PC/laptop with a pj64k/mupen with gameshark built in, then theres no room left to cry about not enough people having gamesharks. For those that are "WHATS THE MATTER CONSOLE TOO DEEP FOR YOU" well you'll have to get a gameshark for your console. I mean really...as long as this argument has gone on isn't it time to realize 64 is short on good stages? At least with offline the damn gameshark stages wont desynch.
Look at kongo, whats unfair about this? the ledge? is that REALLY more unfair than losing a tournament set because of a tornado you couldnt avoid? look at recovering on peach's castle, is that stage really more busted than a easy 0-death/techchase to throw then gimp in the **** pit? I've said it years ago in the past and I'll say it again, the combo pit and tornado do your work for you. What does this suggest? Hyrule like items, takes away from the skill of the game. its been recorded, proven, played over and over, talked about and theres more than one instance where its proven true through playstyles, character abilities, and so on.
in b4 whining about battlefields sides. its no more unfair than missing a ledge with Ness, you'll just have to learn to aim, sweetspot and ledge DI wont you? Its edges are at least a good bit better than dealing with peach's sliders or kongo's ledge
move hyrule to counterpick, open up battlefield as a neutral. Everyones using a PC/laptop with a pj64k/mupen with gameshark built in, then theres no room left to cry about not enough people having gamesharks. For those that are "WHATS THE MATTER CONSOLE TOO DEEP FOR YOU" well you'll have to get a gameshark for your console. I mean really...as long as this argument has gone on isn't it time to realize 64 is short on good stages? At least with offline the damn gameshark stages wont desynch.
Look at kongo, whats unfair about this? the ledge? is that REALLY more unfair than losing a tournament set because of a tornado you couldnt avoid? look at recovering on peach's castle, is that stage really more busted than a easy 0-death/techchase to throw then gimp in the **** pit? I've said it years ago in the past and I'll say it again, the combo pit and tornado do your work for you. What does this suggest? Hyrule like items, takes away from the skill of the game. its been recorded, proven, played over and over, talked about and theres more than one instance where its proven true through playstyles, character abilities, and so on.
in b4 whining about battlefields sides. its no more unfair than missing a ledge with Ness, you'll just have to learn to aim, sweetspot and ledge DI wont you? Its edges are at least a good bit better than dealing with peach's sliders or kongo's ledge
asianaussie
Smash Hero
lol online purists won't stand for that, and the carts are quite sturdy
kongo has the whole bottom to recover through and peach's has the triangles and the bumper, meaning if you play it smart you won't have to deal with the slider as much as you might think...so the battlefield ledges are kinda more important than either the slider or the non-solid kongo ledges
kongo has the whole bottom to recover through and peach's has the triangles and the bumper, meaning if you play it smart you won't have to deal with the slider as much as you might think...so the battlefield ledges are kinda more important than either the slider or the non-solid kongo ledges
kys
Smash Ace
I think there's a desire in competitive play to have everything as equal as possible so that the most skillful player comes out the winner. In a fighting game there are uneven matchups, and in a game like smash, the stages affect these matchups. Thus we have counterpicking, a way for someone who can help turn the matchup closer to 50/50 based on the stage. I feel kinda stupid explaining this because it seems obvious, but whatever.
Counterpicking is pretty whack if you think about it in real life. If I lose a game of 1v1 in bball, should I counterpick to 12 foot rims because my opponent has a foot on me but I can shoot the lights out? lol...............On second thought, that sounds awesome.
Counterpicking is pretty whack if you think about it in real life. If I lose a game of 1v1 in bball, should I counterpick to 12 foot rims because my opponent has a foot on me but I can shoot the lights out? lol...............On second thought, that sounds awesome.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
losing in basketball?
counterpick to another sport than facilitates 1v1
ezpz
counterpick to another sport than facilitates 1v1
ezpz
Ness player here.
Congo
Dip can mess up my djcs sometimes. Corner platforms make it easy to get air camped. Ledges are NOT a problem.
Peach
Lack of ledges NOT a problem. Bumper and Triangles NOT a problem.
Battlefield
Ledges NOT a problem. Air camping might be a problem since it takes a full stick jump to get up to the platforms from the floor, but I havent played this stage alot lately.
Congo
Dip can mess up my djcs sometimes. Corner platforms make it easy to get air camped. Ledges are NOT a problem.
Peach
Lack of ledges NOT a problem. Bumper and Triangles NOT a problem.
Battlefield
Ledges NOT a problem. Air camping might be a problem since it takes a full stick jump to get up to the platforms from the floor, but I havent played this stage alot lately.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Yeah I regularly use "hiderule" and "gimpland" to talk about those stages. I don't remember who said that first though.
Sempiternity
Smash Lord
The only problem with Battlefield is that you can't bounce people off the ledge with DK's throw like in Dreamland.
rawrimamonster
Smash Ace
I used it 2-3 years ago the first time I *****ed and said hyrule should be counterpick, ask anyone that was around then lol.Yeah I regularly use "hiderule" and "gimpland" to talk about those stages. I don't remember who said that first though.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I'm thinking we should just ban all the stages.
All of them.
:dreamland:
All of them.
:dreamland:
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
Hyrule sucks ***.
Discuss.
Discuss.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
Congo sucks more ***. Zebes da bess.
Discuss.
Discuss.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Zebes and Congo both suck. Hyrule and DL too. All the other stages are even worse.
No need to discuss either.
No need to discuss either.
ballin4life
Smash Hero
Claiming early victory before watching the matches?
Lol@u sir. Lol@u
Lol@u sir. Lol@u
TIME TO GET THOSE GAMESHARKS RUNNING.
METAL CAVERN + FD SON.
lets go.
step up that meta.
ya'll already play on PCs and 64 Gamesharks are hella easy to find.
Get on it 64 community. Keep it fresh. Ya'll got options. :V
METAL CAVERN + FD SON.
lets go.
step up that meta.
ya'll already play on PCs and 64 Gamesharks are hella easy to find.
Get on it 64 community. Keep it fresh. Ya'll got options. :V
kys
Smash Ace
Eh, that's never been the issue. We all, minus Surri, understand how bad the nados are and how those alone should make Hyrule counterpick at least and banned at worst.
Your vindication would come with everyone hopping on the banned-because-camping-is-broken-on-hyrule bandwagon you started. It does sound like we might finally have some evidence to finally make an EDUCATED decision.
NTA
Smash Lord
What is counterpick?
kys
Smash Ace
I would say laziness and stage striking.
If I remember correctly star king didnt understand it either. And he is known as the smart guy by many on the boards.
So hopefully the vids can enlighten him as well.
Edit: or what Im I saying lol. It should be enough proof of nadoes being bad, just a watch a match on hyrule
So hopefully the vids can enlighten him as well.
Edit: or what Im I saying lol. It should be enough proof of nadoes being bad, just a watch a match on hyrule
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
^Wow, you're getting on my nerves
asianaussie
Smash Hero
he seems to do that a lot lol
tornadoes hate me less lately, but i'm playing less lately too, so...
tornadoes hate me less lately, but i'm playing less lately too, so...
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Tornadoes really don't "hate" me. I think a lot of people could do a much better job at avoiding them. The tornado on the second platform is admittedly pretty bad, though.
im just teasing you
ballin4life
Smash Hero
tornados confirmed not that bad
cool. I live in Oslo =)
So among notable players we have:
For a ban:
Nintendude
King Funk
Kefit
Superboomfan
Firo
Against a ban
Sensei
Isai
A$
Sheermadness
Undecided:
Star King
No opinion expressed:
everyone else
I almost certainly forgot a few people who've expressed opinions
What do you think, BR? Is it getting to be decision time?
For a ban:
Nintendude
King Funk
Kefit
Superboomfan
Firo
Against a ban
Sensei
Isai
A$
Sheermadness
Undecided:
Star King
No opinion expressed:
everyone else
I almost certainly forgot a few people who've expressed opinions
What do you think, BR? Is it getting to be decision time?
you forgot olikus, the most notable one O__O
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
put me down for against ban
also superboom you still for a ban? You seemed to no longer be against the stage at apex
also superboom you still for a ban? You seemed to no longer be against the stage at apex
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
I'm still for the ban. I just don't mind playing there nowadays.