Hyrule should be counterpick only

[KnitePhox]

i likes's mes's some FINAL DESTINATION, much better than hiderule

 

[ballin4life]

once hyrule is gone i'm only gonna play falcon ...

DL = EZ characters like Falcon Kirby and (to a lesser extent) Pika

 

[B Link]

Pikachu is way too good on dreamland - he's like ness (if you're good with ness). One throw and you're dead unless you get lucky or your opponent sucks at edgeguarding.

 

[The Star King]

Ness isn't that good at edgeguarding compared to other characters... unless you weren't serious in whch case derp

 

[asianaussie]

ness is a really good edgeguarder o.o

my thought processes (and maybe SK's) are...hyrule is like...yea it's arguably broken...but we're making this out as too big a deal...i don't want to care so much about it...

 

[TANK64]

@Olikus, haha word.

@Sheer, seriously. Hand these babies some milk.

@knitephote <3, I'm sayin'. These kids don't know. Also your new avatar always looks like you're pointing at the post above you.

 

[B Link]

Ness isn't that good at edgeguarding compared to other characters... unless you weren't serious in whch case derp

Yeah, now that I think about it, Ness is only good at edgeguarding Ness. Hah.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

ness just can't edgeguard kirby/pikachu very well

 

[clubbadubba]

ness just can't edgeguard kirby/pikachu very well

yea he can, you just gotta know how to use him

 

[asianaussie]

yea he can, you just gotta know how to use him

+rep to you

 

[Battlecow]

Not bannin' hyrule cuz its cheap

bannin it cuz it breaks **** by being all stally and never-endy and ****.

Also nados are random

 

[Mahie]

There is almost no difference between CP and Neutral. If you don't want to play on it, you won't play on it unless your opponent takes you there, so the real question here should be 'Legal or Banned?'

In which case I stand with Legal. I don't think heavy camping is that much of an issue as of now, and I prefer that over gimpy DL matches, those are much more random.

 

[King Funk]

I think Ness might have trouble edgeguarding a Pikachu that recovers extremely high all the time.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

to all you guys who dislike Hyrule, just strike it, lol.

There is still Congo or do you guys just hate that stage (in before that stage gets banned also) and Dreamland.

On a separate note, I wouldn't mind a Dreamland, Congo, and Peach's Castle ruleset for neutrals lol

 

[rawrimamonster]

if you're going to throw counterpick out then, Legal for teams, banned for singles.

If I lost a tournament set because someone used the tornado as a unfair and unearned pressure or I got knocked into it because its not onscreen I probably wouldn't ever play the stage at a tourney again. Thats MY MONEY out the ****in window for a random uncontrollable element, its exactly the same as items. You cant control it, its only sorta random in its appearance spots (we know all the spots but that doesnt change ****) its a random element that gives a unearned advantage and should be dealt with as such.

The stage also promotes 2 kinds of camping from 3 different spots on the stage (projectile and air camping on both sides and the top platform respectively), some chars like jiggly and kirby dont have to ever come down, i've fought against this strategy myself numerous times, saying its beatable doesn't justify leaving it as a viable option to abuse since it is proven to be broken. It comes down to these few things:

BAWW NO GAMESHARK
BAWW EMULATOR
BAWW LACK OF STAGES

Legalize FD, Legalize BF, and maybe metal mario(though honestly the stage is piss small imo as far as options go). Then the subject of not enough stages is gone, no gameshark? Play on mupen on someones laptop and put in the cheats, cant desynch offline. wanna baww about emulator? **** off.

 

[Battlecow]

to all you guys who dislike Hyrule, just strike it, lol.

There is still Congo or do you guys just hate that stage (in before that stage gets banned also) and Dreamland.

On a separate note, I wouldn't mind a Dreamland, Congo, and Peach's Castle ruleset for neutrals lol

OH MY ****ING GOD

FOR THE FOURTH ****ING TIME, YOU DOWN SYNDROME RECTAL POLYPS

-Playing to win means that if I have a better chance of winning by timing someone out on hyrule, I should strike DL and get my flashlight and s'mores out.

-Even if I don't play to win, I can still be CP'd to hyrule.

I don't know why such a uniform brand of *********** has befallen this many of our fellows at the same time, but I'm beginning to suspect that 64 cartridges may have low-level radiation of some kind

 

[ballin4life]

Play on mupen on someones laptop and put in the cheats, cant desynch offline. wanna baww about emulator? **** off.

lol emulators

 

[The Star King]

Getting that mad at a poorly thought-out post from Koro

wat

If you want to ignore people's histories and get mad as if those kinds of posts are new, OK I guess

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^^Then win your match on Not-Hyrule.
Lose on Hyrule or resign if you honestly hate the stage.
Win on Not-hyrule again.

 

[Fish641]

bannin it cuz it breaks **** by being all stally and never-endy and ****.

Nah man never seen a match that went on forever

 

[Channighan]

^^^Then win your match on Not-Hyrule.
Lose on Hyrule or resign if you honestly hate the stage.
Win on Not-hyrule again.

I dont know why people won't do this

 

[Olikus]

Edit: lol i though this was the social thread

 

[The Star King]

I dont know why people won't do this

OK I may be sort of against the ban but this is a bad argument. I thought only Koro would say something like this. I'll let Battlecow yell at you why though

Nah man never seen a match that went on forever

Lol, he's been saying stuff like this from the beginning. asianaussie was way too right when he said Battlecow's style is to "abuse hyperbole and florid language until it can be abused no more". Maybe he thinks it's persuasive, but I find it annoying more than anything.

 

[Battlecow]

I swear to god, we're gonna meet someday and I'm gonna be torn between hugging you and boxing your ears.

You're just salty that you had no idea how much movies cost and got caught by my not-a-hyperbole trap

A couple of those Gersonsai matches had looooooooooong stretches of absolutely nothing happening. With money and big deal stuff on the line, it's easy to see those lasting for a couple of hours or whatever simply because there's no advantage to be had in moving. Realistically, you're right, the investment that a player has in a 64 match probably won't be that great and we'll max out at 20 minutes or whatever. The point is that dat stuff is one of many things that makes Hyrule undesirable from a competitive standpoint.

 

[Channighan]

Give him a half hug.

 

[asianaussie]

i would go with a brofist

that is your chance to 'miss' and land one on his face if you feel so inclined

 

[Channighan]

^ made me choke on my kool-aid.

 

[The Star King]

I swear to god, we're gonna meet someday and I'm gonna be torn between hugging you and boxing your ears.

I would hug you <3

You're just salty that you had no idea how much movies cost and got caught by my not-a-hyperbole trap

Nope. I thought this about you long before.

And it definitely seemed like you meant profit let's be honest here. You were saying they wouldn't make movies because there's no incentive, so "how would they make they $100,000,000 they need". They wouldn't need to cover the cost of making a movie if they didn't make one in the first place (unless they were dumb enough to spend that much on a movie in a society where, according to you, movies won't bring in any money, but I'm pretty sure you weren't saying that). You were just trying to backtrack after you got called out for your statement.

A couple of those Gersonsai matches had looooooooooong stretches of absolutely nothing happening. With money and big deal stuff on the line, it's easy to see those lasting for a couple of hours or whatever simply because there's no advantage to be had in moving. Realistically, you're right, the investment that a player has in a 64 match probably won't be that great and we'll max out at 20 minutes or whatever. The point is that dat stuff is one of many things that makes Hyrule undesirable from a competitive standpoint.

It hasn't happened. So this is assumption. Sure, I can't deny that it could happen, where both players choose not to approach, but the same can be said for any stage - I don't think you should base your argument on a universal problem of a lack of a timer. Speaking of which, the necessity of implementing a timer is something that slightly persuaded me towards the pro-ban side, but this is heavily related to the long post I wrote so I'll try to post it tommorow.

EDIT: Battlecow will inevitably see my small stature and youthful face, and feel bad about committing violence towards me despite his previous feelings. Human weakness strikes again

 

[Battlecow]

Looking forward to your megapost

It won't beat kefit's tho, kefit's was the ****.

 

[The Star King]

I just read Kefit's post. Meh. First part was glorifying defensive play in a community where being defensive is already painfully overrated. Sometimes I feel like defensive players like Kefit and King Funk overrate playing defensively because they are succesful with their own playstyles and assume it's better, or aren't good at being aggressive themselves.

Timeouts on Hyrule is a valid concern which is why I was slightly convinced, but once again has no evidence behind it.

He's right about anti-stalling rules being messy, of course.

BTW I feel like are people going to expect too much of my post. Long doesn't mean good. You people probably won't be impressed because all I'm doing is showing the issue through the eyes of someone who came in fairly neutral and tried to look at it as objectively as he could.

 

[asianaussie]

SK, you definitely know that in theorycraft, more options = winning, and defensive play always has more options than committed attacking

and this whole thread is basically theorycraft and pseudo-evidence

not that theorycraft has no merit

 

[The Star King]

How does defensive play have more options?

Spoiler

I hate theorycraft sometimes

 

[Battlecow]

Wait, funk's defensive?

News to me.

 

[cheeseball341]

defensive players always have more options since they never have to commit to anything and can always move away if in trouble. However this pushes them towards the edge, limiting options in the future.

The problem with hyrule is since the edges go downwards and most characters have very strong upward hitting moves, getting pushed of the edges isnt a bad thing. So defensive players end up getting rewarded for taking the safer options of going towards the edges.

atm though, I dunno if its such an advantage that its bannable.

 

[Zack353]

isai rushes in like no other and gets 0-deaths

just sayin

 

[Mahie]

Wait, funk's defensive?

News to me.

News to me too.

My two cents : Defense : High reward Low risk (Same launchers as the attacker, except it's easier to not make mistakes when defending)
Offence : High Risk High Reward ( Easier to make mistakes, but punishes in case you succeed are just as hard)

Thus, what's the point of Offence? I usually attack 24/7 in freeplay, but if I wanna win I know I'll need to pew pew all game and just stay on my toes.

 

[clubbadubba]

isai rushes in like no other and gets 0-deaths

just sayin

based on the admittedly few times I played with isai at apex, this is not true. He only goes in if there is a good opening to attack. Though I am a defensive player, so maybe he just realized that and played smart vs me i dunno.

 

[Peek~]

isai rushes in like no other and gets 0-deaths

just sayin

After playing defensive and getting the first hit

 

[asianaussie]

How does defensive play have more options?

Spoiler

I hate theorycraft sometimes

yea, the reason i didn't respond is because i predicted about 6 others would do it for me

and they did

After playing defensive and getting the first hit

pretty much this, isai rarely commits if he doesn't have a good chance of getting a good hit

 

[ballin4life]

you guys are basically defining away the issue. yes, if you say "aggressive play" is just charging in blindly at all times then "aggressive play" isn't very good