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Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
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Location
Currently Japan
@ Tristan_win Tristan_win
This may be asking a lot of you but remembering all the work you did with Ftilt for brawl, I think you got this and it will give us big ups in controlling our character.

In my little fun for glory matches online, I made sure to to try and observe mechanic changes of the game and this is the most important one in this game so far.

RAGE. Essentially, the recent tekken comeback mechanic.

With this mechanic, the longer you live, the more simple it is to kill an opponent. The higher your percent, the easier it is to launch your opponent. Now here's where it gets a little tricky. I saw in another thread where you mentioned something about Dthrow still stringing into Uair into the 140-150 range right? Does this take rage into account? From experience so far, rage kinda takes away from our early percentage strings due to our newly gained knock back growth. My question for you to research is, can you tell what the differences in KB are around given percentages or rather how strong rage is at given percentages and how they affect Sheik's move set?

I know it's a lot, and I can try to help though I'm trying to figure out how I'd be looking for these answers as well but if we can understand rage and what it can do for Sheik than I think we'll be really well off once we have a lead on opponents.
=(

I somehow forgot to mention rage isn't in training mode.

Unfortunately what I can accomplish with a single 3ds and with no test partner is very limited which is why most of my little studies are in training mode. This is why training mode is only good to prove it's technically possible, while in brawl with the glitch to air dodge before hitstun ended it was useless. Once the WiiU ver comes out I'll at least be able to attempt to get some data on how rage effects effects things like Sheik usmash and throws. I will also test how VI down or up can effect these as well since it's easy to tape a control direction.
 

#HBC | Scary

Hype Incarnate
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Well, for now I can certainly tell you that it affects throws greatly. Like, Zeldas down throw for example. Normally a solid combo starter but at higher percents with rage, I can't get anything off it. Does similar with Sheik's down throw. Of course it makes us kill super early but it's a matter of survivng with that percentage.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
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Messages
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Currently Japan
Well, for now I can certainly tell you that it affects throws greatly. Like, Zeldas down throw for example. Normally a solid combo starter but at higher percents with rage, I can't get anything off it. Does similar with Sheik's down throw. Of course it makes us kill super early but it's a matter of survivng with that percentage.
Well looking at things plainly it shouldn't effect too much until like 70%, once we get 100% it drastically jumps knock back up so maybe it's not possible once you are at 100%? The whole idea of our percentage effecting our combo ability more then our opponents is very foreign to me. edit2: Nah, I don't think it effect us more then normal percentage that was a silly thought. I would very much like to know how knock back scales with dthrow though to compare numbers.

edit: pfff, Sheik is so reverse Lucario
 
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Tristan_win

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@ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer

He's asking about how much does rage effect Zelda moves. He want's data basically on her combo starters

...Well while your here can I ask you a question? How were you able to assign numbers to show KB

300% - 119 KB
200% - 119 KB
150% - 119 KB
125% - 116 KB
100% - 112 KB
80% - 109 KB
60% - 107 KB
50% - 105 KB
40% - 104 KB
30% - 103 KB
20% - 103 KB
10% - 103 KB
0% - 103 KB
 
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Tristan_win

Not dead.
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Messages
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Currently Japan
Max launcher speed :3
TO THE LAB! ~ Thanks

edit: I was planing to, thanks though.
All testing was done in VS against a level 1 computer mario. The attack used was Sheik dthrow. Percents were set using a mixture of the handiecap system and grab punches with jab1 to bring mario to the closest visible (can't see fractions) percentage. Only one heavy knock back attack was used per round so at the end of each round Sheik 'Max launcher speed' was recorded.

Sheik 0% Mario 0% dthrow
61
Sheik 40% Mario 0% dthrow
62
Sheik 50% Mario 0% dthrow
63
sheik 60% Mario 0% dthrow
63? confirmed 63. Rage isn't constant on all attacks.
Sheik 80% Mario 0% dthrow
65
Sheik 100% Mario 0% dthrow
73 67? Now reading 67% strange.
Sheik 150 mario 0% dthrow
71???? What the ****. I check again, 71. What the **** sakurai! 4 times check, constant. I don't want to live on this planet anymore. ~sighs~ whatever. I'm more or less done anyways so I'll stop here.


Sheik 0% Mario 10% dthrow
63
Sheik 0% Mario 20% dthrow
65
Sheik 0% Mario 30% dthrow
67
Sheik 0% mario 40% dthrow
68
Sheik 0% mario 50% dthrow
70
Sheik 0% mario 60% dthrow
72
Sheik 0% mario 70% dthrow
74
Sheik 0% mario 80% dthrow
75
Sheik 0% mario 90% dthrow
77
Sheik 0% mario 100% dthrow
79
Sheik 0% mario 110% dthrow
81
Sheik 0% mario 120% dthrow
82
Sheik 0% mario 130% dthrow
84
Sheik 0% mario 140% dthrow
86
Sheik 0% mario 150% dthrow
87
Sheik 0% mario 160% dthrow
89
Sheik 0% mario 170% dthrow
91
Sheik 0% mario 180% dthrow
93
Sheik 0% mario 190% dthrow
94
Sheik 0% mario 200% dthrow
96

Sheik 100% Mario 100% dthrow
85

79-61=18 67-61= 6 18+6=24 61+24= 85 okay good, thank you math.
79-61=18 73-61= 10 18+10=28 61+28= 89

This is about as much knock back you would get if you threw mario at 135% No wonder it doesn't normally work.

~sighs~ Of course in training mode I can get it to work no problem at 140% but all attack in VS are 1.05 freshness compare to training mode 1.0 and there's no rage.

Something not adding up and it's not my numbers. haha no my numbers are wrong and have been fixed.
edit: damn decay and doing fraction damage. so 3 grab punches and a jab1 = 10%

edit: I should start backing up my work shouldn't I?
 
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Jackson

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,331
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
@ Tristan_win Tristan_win
This may be asking a lot of you but remembering all the work you did with Ftilt for brawl, I think you got this and it will give us big ups in controlling our character.

In my little fun for glory matches online, I made sure to to try and observe mechanic changes of the game and this is the most important one in this game so far.

RAGE. Essentially, the recent tekken comeback mechanic.

With this mechanic, the longer you live, the more simple it is to kill an opponent. The higher your percent, the easier it is to launch your opponent. Now here's where it gets a little tricky. I saw in another thread where you mentioned something about Dthrow still stringing into Uair into the 140-150 range right? Does this take rage into account? From experience so far, rage kinda takes away from our early percentage strings due to our newly gained knock back growth. My question for you to research is, can you tell what the differences in KB are around given percentages or rather how strong rage is at given percentages and how they affect Sheik's move set?

I know it's a lot, and I can try to help though I'm trying to figure out how I'd be looking for these answers as well but if we can understand rage and what it can do for Sheik than I think we'll be really well off once we have a lead on opponents.
You might be on to something here. If we take a stock and we have 150% or so, doing quick low percents strings might not work as well. This might make camping with needles/ledge nades more viable when we're up a stock with a lot of damage.
 

?.?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
228
Location
Florida
So weird little thing happened today during friendlies that I was able to reproduce with relative ease. I don't know what else to say except that I walljumped through a piece of ground. Alright now that you know what happened let me try and illustrate it, stage was Arena Ferox on the transformation that has an upside down V shaped platform on the left (You know the one that sends people straight down if you knock them into it and they miss tech). Anyways there's a small wall in the center of the stage floating above the ground and if you walljump off just the right spot you'll go through half the V shaped platform and still be able to do aerials. In order to replicate this you can either A Start at left ledge and run/jump right at it and do a wj as soon as possible, or you can fall off the V shaped platform and do a walljump. The hardest part is waiting for the transformation to come back, I'm sure this is fairly situational but I'm curious what effect getting hit would have on us during this as well as any applications. In a match later the same night I effectively sharked my friend who was charging his DK punch by wall jumping off and doing a f-air. I have a replay of me just testing this that I could upload next time I have internet if you guys have trouble replicating it.
 
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Jackson

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,331
Location
Alexandria, Virginia
So weird little thing happened today during friendlies that I was able to reproduce with relative ease. I don't know what else to say except that I walljumped through a piece of ground. Alright now that you know what happened let me try and illustrate it, stage was Arena Ferox on the transformation that has an upside down V shaped platform on the left (You know the one that sends people straight down if you knock them into it and they miss tech). Anyways there's a small wall in the center of the stage floating above the ground and if you walljump off just the right spot you'll go through half the V shaped platform and still be able to do aerials. In order to replicate this you can either A Start at left ledge and run/jump right at it and do a wj as soon as possible, or you can fall off the V shaped platform and do a walljump. The hardest part is waiting for the transformation to come back, I'm sure this is fairly situational but I'm curious what effect getting hit would have on us during this as well as any applications. In a match later the same night I effectively sharked my friend who was charging his DK punch by wall jumping off and doing a f-air. I have a replay of me just testing this that I could upload next time I have internet if you guys have trouble replicating it.
I would be nice to have a visual representation.
 

?.?

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
228
Location
Florida
I would be nice to have a visual representation.
Alright, I'll see what I can do to upload it in a timely manner. But as I said I doubt this will be of much use if at all... Still good to know it's possible as you never know. I think it has something to do with how scarring works. Angle of entry + momentum can carry you through the corners of stages using specials.

Edit: Might have this done tonight due to how low of a file size my phone records at.

Edit 2: K, here it is please read the video description. Oh and I tried it out with mario and it works with him too. Maybe all walljumpers could do it.


Video description: Sorry for the lackluster mobile phone recording, I don't have a better camera on hand and this will have to do. Anyways this is a relatively simple AT with extremely situational uses. Simply wall jump where I do in the video and if done right you'll go through a portion of the stage. The applications for this are unknown as it's new. But as it's possible with other walljumping characters (tested with mario only so far) it could have uses. One last thing ignore the combos I do in the video as the damage knockback was set to .05 for testing purposes.
 
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SirKenneth

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
39
Hello fellow ninjas. Ive been maining Sheik and Link. Just wanted to introduce myself and ask if this is the right place to ask for some sparring partners.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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I'm going to ask again, please Sheik mains; give me Sheik experience. I want games against all of you.
 

Profanity

Smash Journeyman
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Hey.

I didn't play much of Brawl, but I played plenty of Melee.

Anyway I'm digging 3DS so far and I've been digging Sheik. Began lurking here today so I'm saying hi.
 

saviorslegacy

My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
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Tacoma, WA
Unfortunately what I can accomplish with a single 3ds and with no test partner is very limited which is why most of my little studies are in training mode. This is why training mode is only good to prove it's technically possible, while in brawl with the glitch to air dodge before hitstun ended it was useless. Once the WiiU ver comes out I'll at least be able to attempt to get some data on how rage effects effects things like Sheik usmash and throws. I will also test how VI down or up can effect these as well since it's easy to tape a control direction.
I actually went and bought a 3DS XL today. I finally found a test partner!

Oh and if anyone hasn't bought a XL yet, I highly recommend it.
 

GreenFlame

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
462
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0275-7873-0005
I actually went and bought a 3DS XL today. I finally found a test partner!

Oh and if anyone hasn't bought a XL yet, I highly recommend it.
I'm on my 3DS XL.
It is my 3DS.
It is what I use to play Sheik in Smash4.
It is how I play games on a bigger screen.
It is not necessary for me to have a bigger screen,
but I have one anyway, because...

...I love my XL, and my XL loves me.
 

GreenFlame

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
462
3DS FC
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...
Personally, I don't mind the separation from Zelda. Our character does just fine without a princess in a dress. And now she has a new down special that is epic and further showcases her epic ninja skills.

#MyAttemptToSaveTheThread

#I'mSureThisHasBeenDiscussedBeforeButIDon'tWantThisThreadToDie

#PleaseShareYourOpinionsOfMyPostSoWeCanSaveTheThread
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,906
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Colorado
I think peeps are waiting now for the game since it's het closer as well as when they sift through the frame data
Is there frame data for every character available? If so can you link it? I've looked online but no one had Link's frame data yet.
 

VGPhaze

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philms91
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Hey guys I think I found a new AT for Sheik, here's video (not sure if anyone found this yet or if anyone has uploaded footage)
You'll have to copy/paste the link because I don't have 10 posts yet, just made an account.

youtube.com/watch?v=FXytgXWdEJs

Basically cancels all of the landing lag from one of her Custom Up Specials, Gale.
 

Equalox

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
42
Location
Sacramento CA
3DS FC
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Hey guys I think I found a new AT for Sheik, here's video (not sure if anyone found this yet or if anyone has uploaded footage)
You'll have to copy/paste the link because I don't have 10 posts yet, just made an account.

youtube.com/watch?v=FXytgXWdEJs

Basically cancels all of the landing lag from one of her Custom Up Specials, Gale.
Why are we messing with her custom moves?
If that's the case her Jellyfish combo's in itself and would be awesome to use competitively. But to my knowledge they are banned in everything, and only used to goof around in friendlies.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
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Messages
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The Speed Force
So are there just some characters that don't really get combo'd in Smash 3ds? I played a ton of Melee when I was really young, played Brawl casually for a little while on its release, got into competitive play with P:M, and now I play P:M and Melee, but I've kind of got a love hate relationship going with smash 4. Sometimes combos work great and ****s awesome and it feels like a smash game and I love that.

And then sometimes I can't combo a character for the life of me. Throws don't transition into anything, aerials don't lead into other aerials, or anything. Most recent experience was with Wii fit trainer. Every time it happens I just get really tired of this game. Is that just how some matchups are?
 

_Tree

The no-more hero
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So are there just some characters that don't really get combo'd in Smash 3ds? I played a ton of Melee when I was really young, played Brawl casually for a little while on its release, got into competitive play with P:M, and now I play P:M and Melee, but I've kind of got a love hate relationship going with smash 4. Sometimes combos work great and ****s awesome and it feels like a smash game and I love that.

And then sometimes I can't combo a character for the life of me. Throws don't transition into anything, aerials don't lead into other aerials, or anything. Most recent experience was with Wii fit trainer. Every time it happens I just get really tired of this game. Is that just how some matchups are?
Yes, some match-ups will definitely be totally un-fun poke fests, most notably with lighter characters like Ness, Villager etc. Some characters like Falcon however are a total joy to fight, because they're weighty and combo-able while also being speedy enough to create an exciting match. That's the nature of the Brawl engine. I'm not a fan of it, and I wish they would go back to the speed and hitstun of melee, but I think Smash 4 alleviates just enough of Brawl's issues to make it fun again.

I can absolutely understand your love-hate relationship with the game though. I felt very much the same when I first got the game.
 
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