Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

[?.?]

Hahha wow finally fell asleep and good stuff insues.

@ ShiekShallKill Sorry if I offended you man I was just trying to relax the place a bit as recently all we've been doing is testing/learning, hell Tristam has been logging so much time in training with mario he's probably seeing red and blue all over the place. Even while I typed that comment out I was practicing BF ledge cancels.

@Elemt Yeah, you can ledge cancel BF on battlefield relatively easy. I'm gonna quote Tristan here because lazy "go to battle field with platforms on, stand on the top platform and roll to the edge, it doesn’t matter which way just make sure you are on the very edge of the platform. Good? Okay now do a bouncing fish max range to the far side of the stage, make sure to be holding right the whole way to get the most out of it…. … Did you see it? You can edge cancel the bouncing fish. What this means we can do a bouncing fish on the stage with zero landing lag. Try doing it again but this time when you slide off do another bouncing fish, it will be nearly instant and you can go left or right. Heck if you’re good enough you can do another bouncing fish of the 2nd platform inside edge if you adjust it making it so you can do 3 BF in a row."

@Rizen I knew we had a lurker around here and I'm sure we have more heck I've been telling fellow ninja enthusiasts about this board for a few days now so I'm sure I brought a few. Glad to have you.

@Jungle Smooth, why does everyone choose shirtless shulk anyways... Guess he's too cool for one.

 

[Sosuke]

can someone decent who isn't Jungle play with me so i can get some match up practice? x:

 

[Tristan_win]

I actually could test harder, I honestly I wanted to do more but each time I go into training mode to see if something can combo I find out it can and at time even at insane percents...but only if mario decides to be stupid and DI poorly. Then there's the fact that training mode has no decay so I'm limited to 1 time use per string/combo. I just get discourage and feel what I'm doing is useless.

I really want to gather frame data personally, I want to know how fast Sheik moves come out, how much frame advantage we get on shields if any and a god damn 2nd player controller that I can tape in a direction I want to test DI for OR better yet a willing training partner.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

can someone decent who isn't Jungle play with me so i can get some match up practice? x:

wow you wanna fight


also this http://smashboards.com/threads/anti-zelda-sheik-palutena-3ds-trick.372377/

dont think it matters TOO much but like. you know

ALSO ALSO

I played a friend last night and pretty much decided that the uair spike stuff isn't worth it if they knwo what theyre doing. I went for it 4 times in a match and got hit out of it or they avoided it all 4 times.

 

[Tristan_win]

All testing was done against the entire cast set to level 9 cpu in training mode with them standing in their starting position on battle field. The attack used was Sheik tipper usmash, results were written down when the 'kill effect' appeared.

Spoiler

124 Dedede
119 Donkey Kong
113 Boswer
111 Bowser Jr.
111 Ganondorf
108 Ike
108 Wario
108 Captain Falcon
107 ROB
107 Mega man
105 Charizard
105 Link
104 Samus
104 Shulk
103 Yoshi
103 Lucario
102 Dr. Mario
102 Mario
101 Dark Pit
101 Pit
101 Diddy Kong
101 Duck Hunt Dog
100 Lucina
100 Marth
99 Robin
99 Sonic
99 Pacman
98 Villager
98 Little mac
97 Ness
96 Wii Fit Trainer
96 Toon Link
95 Greninja
94 Palutena
92 Peach
92 Falco
92 Zero Suit Samus
92 Meta knight
91 Pikachu
90 Olimar
88 Rosalina
88 Kirby
87 Fox
85 G&W
80 Jigglypuff

I don't know, does this deserve it's own thread, maybe with my other post with mario killing %'s?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Thats awesome.

Also @ Tristan_win
I think Dantarion's working on extracting all the frame data. so we have that to look forward to.

 

[Tristan_win]

Thats awesome.

Also @ Tristan_win
I think Dantarion's working on extracting all the frame data. so we have that to look forward to.

All the frame data? Define all because

IASA frames
start up
hit box duration
Cooldown
Advantage on shields

On all of Sheik moves isn't a easy task, and then you have the nearly infinite void of finding out frame advantage on hit which if you do it by hand would take you months to do if not the rest of your life.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Not like. organized data. It's just a frame data dump from the game itself. I think he's only done Marth so far.

@ Tristan_win

 

[Tristan_win]

Not like. organized data. It's just a frame data dump from the game itself. I think he's only done Marth so far.

@ Tristan_win

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooHHHH

My body is ready.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooHHHH

My body is ready.

hahah i thought you'd enjoy that. I dunno what his progress is on it, he hasn't posted about it since yesterday. If he says anything about our gurl i'll let you know

 

[?.?]

can someone decent who isn't Jungle play with me so i can get some match up practice? x:

Well I have no internet at home but hell I wish I could help you out.

@Jungle yeah I read about that anti sheik trick and cried a bit... such a painful oversight, but still good to know about.

@ Tristan_win mmmm yummy kill data

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i dont think it matters to be honest. There's literally only so many places you can go and most situations only have 1 or 2 good options to vanish to, one of them being the ledge which I'm not sure how they'd punish. Point being, they should have an idea of where we're going anyway \o_o/

 

[Tristan_win]

i dont think it matters to be honest. There's literally only so many places you can go and most situations only have 1 or 2 good options to vanish to, one of them being the ledge which I'm not sure how they'd punish. Point being, they should have an idea of where we're going anyway \o_o/

I disagree, when using the vanish as a counter to kill with you being highlighted no matter the direction you take it a big nerf. You could normally go for the ledge from onstage (assuming you were in range) but you could of just as easily gone left or right to avoid punishment or even up on battlefield/smashville/yoshi story. Against some of the slower characters in Brawl you could vanish away from them and be very hard to punish when you hit their shield if they didn't guess correctly

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I disagree, when using the vanish as a counter to kill with you being highlighted no matter the direction you take it a big nerf. You could normally go for the ledge from onstage (assuming you were in range) but you could of just as easily gone left or right to avoid punishment or even up on battlefield/smashville/yoshi story. Against some of the slower characters in Brawl you could vanish away from them and be very hard to punish when you hit their shield if they didn't guess correctly

Hmm. I didn't play brawl so Ive never really used vanish for anything other than recovery. Interesting and good to know though

 

[ShiekShallKill]

Hahha wow finally fell asleep and good stuff insues.

@ ShiekShallKill Sorry if I offended you man I was just trying to relax the place a bit as recently all we've been doing is testing/learning, hell Tristam has been logging so much time in training with mario he's probably seeing red and blue all over the place. Even while I typed that comment out I was practicing BF ledge cancels.

@Elemt Yeah, you can ledge cancel BF on battlefield relatively easy. I'm gonna quote Tristan here because lazy "go to battle field with platforms on, stand on the top platform and roll to the edge, it doesn’t matter which way just make sure you are on the very edge of the platform. Good? Okay now do a bouncing fish max range to the far side of the stage, make sure to be holding right the whole way to get the most out of it…. … Did you see it? You can edge cancel the bouncing fish. What this means we can do a bouncing fish on the stage with zero landing lag. Try doing it again but this time when you slide off do another bouncing fish, it will be nearly instant and you can go left or right. Heck if you’re good enough you can do another bouncing fish of the 2nd platform inside edge if you adjust it making it so you can do 3 BF in a row."

@Rizen I knew we had a lurker around here and I'm sure we have more heck I've been telling fellow ninja enthusiasts about this board for a few days now so I'm sure I brought a few. Glad to have you.

@Jungle Smooth, why does everyone choose shirtless shulk anyways... Guess he's too cool for one.

I was joking xD

 

[?.?]

I was joking xD

Ah never been good at understanding jokes in text format on the interwebs... especially if they involve sarcasm. :D

@Jungle I have to agree with tristan on this one, besides even if there's only so many places to go this takes the guess work out and gives the punisher 100% chance to punish us... ok more like 95% because sometimes you just can't get to the location.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yea no, i see what he's saying, i just never use vanish like that so using it as a kill move or something other than off stage wasn't ever on my mind

 

[?.?]

So I had interwebs for a bit today (was at a friends place) and I decided to try out some For Glory (bad choice, such casuals). After a lot of 2 stock matches and instant leavers I came across someone who was quite stubborn and stayed for about 8 matches, the first two I played my secondary purin and then decided eh time to try some sheik out. In the process I got to try out some things as I don't think he knew about VI or DI and he played d3 the entire time. So u-air chaingrabs work til about 70% if you start at 0 and they don't roll at all. It felt great to do on him and I felt so bad afterwards. This also inspired me to do the writeup on d3 for the MU thread so I'll get started on that tomorrow night. Oh and in my crappy for glory travels I came across a lil mac who liked slip counter a bit too much and I found a nice mind game that made him very sad I assume. So first off I conditioned him to think I always waited a second after fthrow, enough time for an air dodge. Then once he put a slip counter in instead, I switched my game up. After a f-throw I shorthopped towards him, landed, and pivot grabbed 3 times just for fun. On the last one he went for an airdodge so I simply pivoted a ftilt and went with a fair chain.

 

[fromundaman]

Dear Sheik players:

I recently got demolished by a Sheik at our local tournament (The same one in both winners and losers! ARG!); I never want this to happen again.

Please give me games until I figure out how to fight her with my characters.

Thanks in advance.

 

[?.?]

Dear Sheik players:

I recently got demolished by a Sheik at our local tournament (The same one in both winners and losers! ARG!); I never want this to happen again.

Please give me games until I figure out how to fight her with my characters.

Thanks in advance.

Well I don't usually have internet to play games with peeps, so let me attempt to help via chat eh? First off who do you play, and second what did you have trouble with.

Edit: Welp I answered myself with who you play... Megaman, Ironically my most knowledgeable matchup.

 

[fromundaman]

Well I don't usually have internet to play games with peeps, so let me attempt to help via chat eh? First off who do you play, and second what did you have trouble with.

Edit: Welp I answered myself with who you play... Megaman, Ironically my most knowledgeable matchup.

I play Megaman/Rosalina/Pacman, but so far I've only tried to grind it out with Megaman.

It feels like I'm getting out-prioritized in the air a lot (Not something I am used to with Megaman as you can imagine), and needles became a big issues when the Sheik player caught my saw blade.

I did play it a bit more against the same guy online tonight and noticed the SH jab pellets are helping a lot in stopping Sheik's approach and controlling the pace of the match, and the ability to Rush out of combos and Uair help my survivability a lot.

On the flip side, her speed, grab game and superior aerials make it really hard to reach the ground once I am in the air (Usually after I Rush out of something). Her Nair is also very good for stopping my Dthrow combos at low %s.

Also is Sheik's Jumping Fish invincible? I've tried to hit her out of it and seen her go through my buzzsaw, crash bomb (The projectile, not the explosion) and my Forward Smash. I wasn't sure if it had partial invincibility, projectile invincibility or full invincibility.

Thank you for being willing to help.

 

[Tristan_win]

@ fromundaman I don't think there's IF on the bouncing fish but I don't know if anyone else has tested for it. It's kind of hard to test for IF to be honest.

 

[Jackson]

So I had interwebs for a bit today (was at a friends place) and I decided to try out some For Glory (bad choice, such casuals). After a lot of 2 stock matches and instant leavers I came across someone who was quite stubborn and stayed for about 8 matches, the first two I played my secondary purin and then decided eh time to try some sheik out. In the process I got to try out some things as I don't think he knew about VI or DI and he played d3 the entire time. So u-air chaingrabs work til about 70% if you start at 0 and they don't roll at all. It felt great to do on him and I felt so bad afterwards. This also inspired me to do the writeup on d3 for the MU thread so I'll get started on that tomorrow night. Oh and in my crappy for glory travels I came across a lil mac who liked slip counter a bit too much and I found a nice mind game that made him very sad I assume. So first off I conditioned him to think I always waited a second after fthrow, enough time for an air dodge. Then once he put a slip counter in instead, I switched my game up. After a f-throw I shorthopped towards him, landed, and pivot grabbed 3 times just for fun. On the last one he went for an airdodge so I simply pivoted a ftilt and went with a fair chain.

Heh. So chaingrab really DOES wreck noobs lol.

 

[fromundaman]

@ fromundaman I don't think there's IF on the bouncing fish but I don't know if anyone else has tested for it. It's kind of hard to test for IF to be honest.

Hmmmm... okay thanks. I'll have to go test it later and make sure I'm not crazy.

 

[?.?]

Hmmmm... okay thanks. I'll have to go test it later and make sure I'm not crazy.

I promise you she's not, her hurtbox just gets all ****ed up when she does BF. I've been hit out of a fully charged F-smash before then again sometimes I go over leafshield and other times I don't... I always figured it was because it rotated. I need you to talk to my buddy as he's the one with the MU experience from your side, after a practice session he always says the MU is one of the hardest he's ever done and yet he can win. If you want he's the only guy I'm following and is following me so you can message him that way and I'll let him know someone messaged him.

 

[fromundaman]

I promise you she's not, her hurtbox just gets all ****ed up when she does BF. I've been hit out of a fully charged F-smash before then again sometimes I go over leafshield and other times I don't... I always figured it was because it rotated. I need you to talk to my buddy as he's the one with the MU experience from your side, after a practice session he always says the MU is one of the hardest he's ever done and yet he can win. If you want he's the only guy I'm following and is following me so you can message him that way and I'll let him know someone messaged him.

Sounds good thanks!

Good to know on the jumping fish.

It definitely feels doable to me, but I feel like I need to understand the MU better before I start winning.




By the way to the rest of you guys, anyone able to offer me some games? Experience is the best teacher after all.

 

[Blubolouis]

Hi, just to introduce myelf, I'm an Ike main from Brawl, and I'll be maining Sheik in this game.

 

[Jackson]

Hi, just to introduce myelf, I'm an Ike main from Brawl, and I'll be maining Sheik in this game.

Cool. Glad to have another Sheik main with us.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Yo, Welcome to Sheik Blubo! How's it been buddy?!

So I'm borrowing MVD's Japanese 3DS and I am deconstructing people online For Glory with some combo of Sheik/Zelda/WFT/Wario/Pac-Man with the first two getting the primary reps....(though I know its for glory but man it was an adventure finding that option in Japanese lol). I'm something like 156-8 and I'm ashamed of those losses.

When I figure out more Japanese stuff, I'll be down to play with peeps online.

Some general observations:

-Yoshi is gonna be a tough MU. I'm almost certain of this.
-Lil' Mac will likely be our easiest high-tier MU as the meta develops.
-Bowser is super simple but its terrifying to get hit by him. Momentum is damn scary. Rage too.
-DK gets the same as Boozer
-Vanish gliding nets me about 85% of my kills

Yoshi is gonna be tough thanks to him seemingly being able to Nair out of EVERYTHING we can do unless we are really executing well. His airspeed and meaty ground hitboxes can set us up really well for traps. His fair is SUPER deceptively large so if you sleep on it, TO THE DEPTHS!! Where Yoshi gets hurt against us is that with grab armor gone, his pivot grab and general Yoshi shenanigans are hurt decently against our good rushdown. His aerial mobility is so ******* scary lmao.

 

[GreenFlame]

I always get scared/hesitant to edgeguard as Sheik, and I know I can't afford to miss out on this part of Sheik's game as it's something she's particularly potent at as a character. I'm usually afraid I'll either hit them then I won't be able to recover or they'll hit me and I won't be able to recover. What are some tips to edgeguard well (and safely, if possible)?

 

[Jackson]

Yo, Welcome to Sheik Blubo! How's it been buddy?!

So I'm borrowing MVD's Japanese 3DS and I am deconstructing people online For Glory with some combo of Sheik/Zelda/WFT/Wario/Pac-Man with the first two getting the primary reps....(though I know its for glory but man it was an adventure finding that option in Japanese lol). I'm something like 156-8 and I'm ashamed of those losses.

When I figure out more Japanese stuff, I'll be down to play with peeps online.

Some general observations:

-Yoshi is gonna be a tough MU. I'm almost certain of this.
-Lil' Mac will likely be our easiest high-tier MU as the meta develops.
-Bowser is super simple but its terrifying to get hit by him. Momentum is damn scary. Rage too.
-DK gets the same as Boozer
-Vanish gliding nets me about 85% of my kills

Yoshi is gonna be tough thanks to him seemingly being able to Nair out of EVERYTHING we can do unless we are really executing well. His airspeed and meaty ground hitboxes can set us up really well for traps. His fair is SUPER deceptively large so if you sleep on it, TO THE DEPTHS!! Where Yoshi gets hurt against us is that with grab armor gone, his pivot grab and general Yoshi shenanigans are hurt decently against our good rushdown. His aerial mobility is so ******* scary lmao.

Wow, Vanish Gliding really gets you that many kills? That's amazing! I've kinda been forgetting about it until you mentioned it just now.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

-Yoshi is gonna be a tough MU. I'm almost certain of this.
-Lil' Mac will likely be our easiest high-tier MU as the meta develops.
-Bowser is super simple but its terrifying to get hit by him. Momentum is damn scary. Rage too.
-DK gets the same as Boozer
-Vanish gliding nets me about 85% of my kills

Yoshi is gonna be tough thanks to him seemingly being able to Nair out of EVERYTHING we can do unless we are really executing well. His airspeed and meaty ground hitboxes can set us up really well for traps. His fair is SUPER deceptively large so if you sleep on it, TO THE DEPTHS!! Where Yoshi gets hurt against us is that with grab armor gone, his pivot grab and general Yoshi shenanigans are hurt decently against our good rushdown. His aerial mobility is so ******* scary lmao.

Yoshi is tough can confirm

What's vanish gliding :x

 

[Jackson]

Yoshi is tough can confirm

What's vanish gliding :x

Check AT thread

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ GreenFlame Just monitor the use of your double jump and don't be afraid to just go out there. Sometime you just gotta go for it and you'll eventually make yourself comfortable using it. It certainly helps that Sheik's fair is incredible both speed and range wise so use that to your advantage when you jump out there.

Vanish gliding is when you run off the stage with vanish and it goes straight instead of that initial rise it has. Also gonna confirm that autocanceling Vanish is also back in this game so baiting with vanish is completely legit again.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Yeah, vanish gliding or just in general vanish near the ledge has been golden.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Oh I don't thin I've heard it called that before. Or maybe I have and I don't remember anymore.

 

[Jackson]

@ GreenFlame Just monitor the use of your double jump and don't be afraid to just go out there. Sometime you just gotta go for it and you'll eventually make yourself comfortable using it. It certainly helps that Sheik's fair is incredible both speed and range wise so use that to your advantage when you jump out there.

Vanish gliding is when you run off the stage with vanish and it goes straight instead of that initial rise it has. Also gonna confirm that autocanceling Vanish is also back in this game so baiting with vanish is completely legit again.

Wow, how does one autocancel vanish?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

when you vanish, try to go at a diagonal up angle whether it be left or right. Now when you get comfy with that, try to take that angle between that and almost 90 degrees. something almost like 70 degrees I'd say. Weird to explain but when you do it, you should be able to act immediately.

Best way to practice this in brawl was have Snake set a Dsmash mine. attempt AC vanish, aiming to land on the mine. If you do it right, you can powershield the mine.

 

[Jackson]

when you vanish, try to go at a diagonal up angle whether it be left or right. Now when you get comfy with that, try to take that angle between that and almost 90 degrees. something almost like 70 degrees I'd say. Weird to explain but when you do it, you should be able to act immediately.

Best way to practice this in brawl was have Snake set a Dsmash mine. attempt AC vanish, aiming to land on the mine. If you do it right, you can powershield the mine.

Nice, thanks.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Tristan_win
This may be asking a lot of you but remembering all the work you did with Ftilt for brawl, I think you got this and it will give us big ups in controlling our character.

In my little fun for glory matches online, I made sure to to try and observe mechanic changes of the game and this is the most important one in this game so far.

RAGE. Essentially, the recent tekken comeback mechanic.

With this mechanic, the longer you live, the more simple it is to kill an opponent. The higher your percent, the easier it is to launch your opponent. Now here's where it gets a little tricky. I saw in another thread where you mentioned something about Dthrow still stringing into Uair into the 140-150 range right? Does this take rage into account? From experience so far, rage kinda takes away from our early percentage strings due to our newly gained knock back growth. My question for you to research is, can you tell what the differences in KB are around given percentages or rather how strong rage is at given percentages and how they affect Sheik's move set?

I know it's a lot, and I can try to help though I'm trying to figure out how I'd be looking for these answers as well but if we can understand rage and what it can do for Sheik than I think we'll be really well off once we have a lead on opponents.