Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

[_Tree]

Why are the Sheik boards so amazing compared to the other character boards? Everything is run so smoothly...

gib shek burds plz

Thread quality is directly proportional to the character's position on the tier list.

 

[Reizilla]

Thread quality is directly proportional to the character's position on the tier list.

Rosalina and Marth boards say hello.

 

[MetaBhreat]

In regards to the single thread per character matchups, I think they're a good idea now that the game is more developed and we need a way to focus detailed information on each character matchup. All the other characters out there are looking at Sheik and saying, "What can we do," so we have to be ready and adapt to their counter-strategies.

 

[_Tree]

Sorry Joaco, my entire draft I was writing up for the Rosa MU thread got deleted ;____________;

Might take me a bit longer...

 

[Shaya]

Thread quality is directly proportional to the character's position on the tier list.

Rosalina and Marth boards say hello.

"Thread quality is directly proportional to how much Shaya visits"~



Or if one's social thread is more of a hivemind team environment general than a social social.

 

[Joaco]

Sorry Joaco, my entire draft I was writing up for the Rosa MU thread got deleted ;____________;

Might take me a bit longer...

Nooooo ;_;

 

[Skyfox2000]

I need to download Ocarina of Time on the VC!

 

[WondrousMoose]

I need to download Ocarina of Time on the VC!

Dude. Yes. Wait, have you not played it? Holy crap, that game'll change your life. Well, it will if you can have in mind the gaming environment and technical limitations of the time.

But seriously, it's an incredible game.

 

[Skyfox2000]

Dude. Yes. Wait, have you not played it? Holy crap, that game'll change your life. Well, it will if you can have in mind the gaming environment and technical limitations of the time.

But seriously, it's an incredible game.

Yes. I've played the 3DS remake. Ocarina of Time is like my favorite games of all time!

 

[Joaco]

Zelda II is the best

 

[S.P.A.D.]

OoT was really good, but I dunno. I guess I overhyped it before I ended up playing it almost ten years after it came out?

Sheik feels really... Odd. I played her a lot in Melee with my friends and stopped when they basically disappeared. I have a general idea of what all has changed, but I haven't any idea as to the extent of the whole list, considering I don't remember liking Sheik in Brawl. I know it's almost a really different engine compared to Melee, but I was never able to do any semi-competitive gameplay that involved the tools used in Melee and Project M. Is there a general list of what all's changed?

 

[ArikadoSD]

OoT was really good, but I dunno. I guess I overhyped it before I ended up playing it almost ten years after it came out?

Sheik feels really... Odd. I played her a lot in Melee with my friends and stopped when they basically disappeared. I have a general idea of what all has changed, but I haven't any idea as to the extent of the whole list, considering I don't remember liking Sheik in Brawl. I know it's almost a really different engine compared to Melee, but I was never able to do any semi-competitive gameplay that involved the tools used in Melee and Project M. Is there a general list of what all's changed?

In Melee Sheik's primary kills other than edgeguarding were with fair, bair, nair, or off the top.. and all her aerials bair dair were kill moves basically. Needles had fixed knockback. Smash attacks were spammable and dsmash was good, and Vanish was useless as an attack move.

In Sm4sh, she has no kill moves basically besides Uair, tipper usmash, and vanish. Her smash attacks aren't really that good, dsmash is terrible and fsmash is niche. Usmash is pretty good because you can get air dodge reads and kill with it, or it can auto-tipper when you hit people above you on a platform.

Fair and Bair, instead of being kill moves, are now combo moves. Fair is amazing because it does so little knockback and allows for instant followups. Bair can allow for some neat followups sometimes as well but is generally inferior to fair in everything except damage output (4/5% compared to 7%). Dair is now absolutely terrible except for some mixups sometimes. Vanish can be used as a kill move because it's really powerful. Needles have KBG meaning their knockback increases as the target's percent increases.

Sheik's new down B, Bouncing Fish, is pretty much the best thing to ever happen to Sheik. It's an amazing tool for mobility and escaping sticky situations, an amazing combo finisher, and is the move most commonly used to close out stocks. It doesn't have that good of a knockback but it can kill off-stage which is where it can actually kill.

Sheik also has a new side B which is the burst grenade. she no longer has the whip.

So basically, tl;dr:
- sheik now relies on comboing and relying on kill setups rather than kill moves
- bouncing fish and burst grenade
- needles have knockback
- in general and thanks to all the changes she has to be played much faster because her moves do so little damage but she can string them together quickly, unlike melee.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

What's the main reason for a Shiek player to do reverse needle cancels? The only real use I can see with it is instantly going from a dash to any move but other than that and lookin fancy I don't understand the overall purpose.

 

[MetaBhreat]

What's the main reason for a Shiek player to do reverse needle cancels? The only real use I can see with it is instantly going from a dash to any move but other than that and lookin fancy I don't understand the overall purpose.

Dashing/running is the fastest movement option on the ground for Sheik, but it restricts her options to either a dash attack or a dash grab. Instant needle canceling gives Sheik a way to still move fast but have access to many more of her options on her ground. Other than the purposes you mentioned it performs similarly to run -> shield except without the lag from dropping shield, plus the option of being able to attack wicked fast out of it.

 

[LiL.Will]

Im trying to stop lurking here and focusing on being more social so ummm hi lol.

 

[MetaBhreat]

Im trying to stop lurking here and focusing on being more social so ummm hi lol.

Good start! Hello and welcome!

 

[S.P.A.D.]

So basically, tl;dr:
- sheik now relies on comboing and relying on kill setups rather than kill moves
- bouncing fish and burst grenade
- needles have knockback
- in general and thanks to all the changes she has to be played much faster because her moves do so little damage but she can string them together quickly, unlike melee.

So basically a fast Zangief without the command grab and sort of weak but very useful projectiles, sounds good. I'll roll with her a bit and see if I can get back into the groove.

 

[Darklink401]

Not sure if this is the ideal place to post this, and its probably been discussed, but ff nair true combos into tipper upsmash at kill %s, if done well =D

I find that pretty cool, since comboing into tipper upsmash means early kills x3

 

[Joaco]

Not sure if this is the ideal place to post this, and its probably been discussed, but ff nair true combos into tipper upsmash at kill %s, if done well =D

I find that pretty cool, since comboing into tipper upsmash means early kills x3

Have you tested it with DI?

 

[Darklink401]

Have you tested it with DI?

I haven't. I imagine that with DI away it wouldn't work, but I do think that people are less likely to combo DI attacks than throws.

 

[Ascen]

Just landed a Bouncing Fish into an opponent recovering close to the stage wall at around 80%, and then hit them with the second hitbox of Bouncing Fish after they bounced off of the wall for the stock at around 100%. Another reason to avoid hugging a straight wall as you recover vs. Sheik, because you cannot tech the first hit into the stage if you're against a wall, resulting in a true combo.

 

[_Tree]

Just landed a Bouncing Fish into an opponent recovering close to the stage wall at around 80%, and then hit them with the second hitbox of Bouncing Fish after they bounced off of the wall for the stock at around 100%. Another reason to avoid hugging a straight wall as you recover vs. Sheik, because you cannot tech the first hit into the stage if you're against a wall, resulting in a true combo.

Huh...Now that you mention it, with the recent discoveries about teching that actually IS a true combo. Good to know.

 

[Joaco]

I will start streaming soon, I'll tell you more about it later.

 

[_Tree]

I will start streaming soon, I'll tell you more about it later.

Yo! I'll definitely tune in.

 

[Shaya]

hey Tree, I played someone on for glory last night in Victoria using ROB, was that you? :O

 

[sirchadakiss18]

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can we pls sticky this thread :[

 

[Shaya]

Can we pls sticky this thread :[

Is it an issue? it's one of the most populous/active threads and is tagged.

 

[_Tree]

hey Tree, I played someone on for glory last night in Victoria using ROB, was that you? :O

Probably not, considering I've played For Glory a total of 3 times : P.

If you ever find me playing ROB though send me a message and tell me to get my life together.

 

[Simikins]

Hey fellas,
I think I've found a new sheik jab lock, could you help me out with it?
http://smashboards.com/threads/new-sheik-jab-lock.414715/

 

[_Tree]

Just a small idea before I sleep. Anybody think a Sheikboards stream would be useful? Just a concept at this stage (given that any stream capabilities I have at the moment are prehistoric), but a weekly/fortnightly/monthly stream reviewing specific threads on the boards, going over tech and it's execution/applications and just generally conversing with members here to make these boards a more welcome place.

Just trying to think of ways we could expand the Sheikboards and improve the quality of the information and community that can be found here.

I haven't thought about this too much so feel free to pick apart this idea.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Just a small idea before I sleep. Anybody think a Sheikboards stream would be useful? Just a concept at this stage (given that any stream capabilities I have at the moment are prehistoric), but a weekly/fortnightly/monthly stream reviewing specific threads on the boards, going over tech and it's execution/applications and just generally conversing with members here to make these boards a more welcome place.

Just trying to think of ways we could expand the Sheikboards and improve the quality of the information and community that can be found here.

I haven't thought about this too much so feel free to pick apart this idea.

Why would you go to sleep at noon I don't really see the advantage of a stream over a video, unless it was later posted online as a sort of Q&A. I personally don't watch Twitch much at all but would maybe tune in to see what people are saying. Of course, a stream that is only a stream seems a bit like a press conference that isn't publicized in any way.

 

[Ascen]

My local Smash scene runs a similar stream called Smash Talk. It's a weekly stream in which they have TOs and top local players on a Skype call. They discuss recent Smash events locally and nationally, players, characters, and meta. Streaming benefits them, because it allows for them to interact with viewers, see if they have input, and answer questions in chat. Sounds like what we would run is similar, right?

Also, shameless plug, go follow us on Twitch. Weeklies on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Most of our weeklies are streamed. Smash Talk is on Mondays at 8:00 PM CST. Mashfest! is on Sep 5. E2C XVIII is on Sep 26. http://www.twitch.tv/events2compete

 

[_Tree]

Why would you go to sleep at noon I don't really see the advantage of a stream over a video, unless it was later posted online as a sort of Q&A. I personally don't watch Twitch much at all but would maybe tune in to see what people are saying. Of course, a stream that is only a stream seems a bit like a press conference that isn't publicized in any way.

Dude I live in Australia it was 2AM when I posted that My general thoughts were that we'd archive the streams somewhere (probably on an individual channel) and update a thread post each time one was recorded. I thought it'd be good for showing off multiple ways of pulling off a tech (to match multiple people's preferences) as well as addressing more specific problems/queries that people might have, as videos made on techniques tend to be pretty general and don't change to suit an individual.

Just an idea though. I'll try and upgrade my current setup in the meantime, but I'll let this proposal cook for a bit.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Dude I live in Australia it was 2AM when I posted that My general thoughts were that we'd archive the streams somewhere (probably on an individual channel) and update a thread post each time one was recorded. I thought it'd be good for showing off multiple ways of pulling off a tech (to match multiple people's preferences) as well as addressing more specific problems/queries that people might have, as videos made on techniques tend to be pretty general and don't change to suit an individual.

Just an idea though. I'll try and upgrade my current setup in the meantime, but I'll let this proposal cook for a bit.

I like that. We could have a thread with links to each session and bullet points for those who can't/won't watch the whole thing. We can get a Skype channel going so people can "call in" and ask questions, explain tech, etc.

 

[Joaco]

@ smashPony Your replays are up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUT-iF7iIyc

 

[smashPony]

@ smashPony Your replays are up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUT-iF7iIyc

Thank you so much Joaco! I owe you one :]

 

[saviorslegacy]

Sorry for being away fro so long. Here are a couple of ideas that I had a couple of months ago, but have been unable to test due to the Middle East. I am also currently stuck in May. I have no knowledge of anything new since then. Like I just found out about Ryu.
SO if anything here has already been proven or disproven please ignore.


Interupted Dair into multi hit boxes on the stage.
Example: ZSS's USmash
This allows you to put the enemy into a lot of hit stun and you be free for almost any hit box. Can combo into BF or my personal favorite... Int.Dair> Int.Uair> double jab (true combo at higher percents)> d-tilt> Uair
Good for countering a juggle.

Has anyone looked into using nade cancel on a recovering hit box?

F-Throw> Uair can be a true combo at kill percents.
If the opponent DI's away chase with BF. If the opponent DI's towards you kill them with Uair. Match up dependent and very loose on the working percentage.

F-Throw> Fair> Nair> f-tilt> grab might be a true combo on some characters.
Also try D-Throw> Nair> FF on Fox for frame advantage. Might be a trap or a possible lock. Look for the rolling animation that Fox makes.
Also try F-Throw> Fair> Uair> grab on Bowser.

Remember Squirtle's shell shift in Brawl. Do it with Sheik and apply it to d-tilt. A nice spacing slide IMO.


I doubt I will ever finish a Gimp Theory... I am sorry.
I will however publish my mathmatical formula that I came up with to apply to all aspects of the game that shows the best options in every possible situation. You just gotta debate a bunch of numbers though..... To much for one person to decide by themselves I'm afraid.



Good luck with Sheik everyone. Hope this tod bit helps motivate someone to keep researching.

 

[_Tree]

For you Saviors, I'll do anything.

Sorry for the infrequent posts for those who are wondering. Depression is god damn piece of ****. I'll make a few comments in the Pikachu MU thread and Stage discussion thread.

 

[smashPony]

Has anyone experimented with finding ways to purposely drop the burst grenade? I can only imagine what kind of Sheik combos we can do with it..