Official Hyrule Hangout - Sheik Social

[Ascen]

It works in doubles, because your partner can hit you during the animation.

 

[Shaya]

Does the nut like... ever actually disappear on hitting something?
It seems to me that if they were a reliable way to get it, as an item, it could be used to broken affect.

If you play against level 9 Sheik, you'll see a relatively solid AI who decides to side-b in situations it shouldn't resulting in getting that nut, what you can do with that thing is kinda crazy. Pseudo brawl ZSS armor piece.

 

[|RK|]

Hi. You know what's fun? Endless arguments about the Kirby/Sheik MU in the Competitive Discussions thread.

...So, I'm here to ask what you guys think of the match-up. Thoughts?

 

[Simikins]

Has anyone experimented with finding ways to purposely drop the burst grenade? I can only imagine what kind of Sheik combos we can do with it..

if you throw it the moment you get hit it drops right down at your feet. Similar timing to power shielding. If they're spacing projectiles get hit by one.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Hi. You know what's fun? Endless arguments about the Kirby/Sheik MU in the Competitive Discussions thread.

...So, I'm here to ask what you guys think of the match-up. Thoughts?

If kirby gets needles its in his favour no questions asked. Otherwise, it's still slightly in his favour because floatiness + heavy combo potential + ducking needles/kill setups/kill moves etc. Multiple jumps also means hard to gimp and can escape punishing landings with needles

 

[Shaya]

if you throw it the moment you get hit it drops right down at your feet. Similar timing to power shielding. If they're spacing projectiles get hit by one.

This is legitimately one of those small nuanced areas of Sheik no one's really touched upon yet, but I'm 200% certain this is going to be relevant part of Sheik's top level play at some stage.

 

[Simikins]

This is legitimately one of those small nuanced areas of Sheik no one's really touched upon yet, but I'm 200% certain this is going to be relevant part of Sheik's top level play at some stage.

Yep. The kill setups are amazing. The only thing I don't like about it is that once you've got it you can't really do anything but throw it or use specials, basically meaning you'd have to use it the moment you get it.

 

[Shaya]

There is a lot of item-tech you're neglecting in your thoughts/analysis.

Z dropping out of air dodge... suddenly air dodge becomes an attack.
You can z drop and instantly regrab with an aerial too, this is very very good.

IT doesn't dissipate on hitting a shield or person, so recatching it based on how it bounces off/etc too.

Something "strange" just came to mind as a possibility but:
Dropping the nut downwards (probably z drop over hard throw), reverse wave bounce needles so you shift in a way that the 225 degree trajectory matches up -> bouncing fish.

 

[Simikins]

Lab it. The combos this little nade allows for are ridiculous, and anything to make it look flashier is gold
Also sheik struggles with higher percent kill setups, so this can cover for that.

Go look at absol's thread, he's spent a lot of time in the lab with the nade

 

[KingChaos]

Just won an almost 40 man tournament yesterday . My first big win Mostly used sheik but i play some ROB as well.

 

[Simikins]

Congrats! Will any of the matched be on YT?

 

[Joaco]

I placed fifth out of 72 today, all Sheik of course.

 

[Simikins]

I placed fifth out of 72 today, all Sheik of course.

Congrats also! And same question for you, anywhere we can watch your games?

 

[Joaco]

You can watch my games here: http://www.twitch.tv/argensmash/v/13598428
My matches are:
0:50:00 vs Gaby (Sonic)
3:44:28 vs Oz (Bowser)
5:26:30 Dyasmond (Falco)
5:35:45 vs XoF (Fox)
6:04:15 vs Nova (Rosalina)
6:36:30 vs Kevon (Mega Man/Mario)

 

[KingChaos]

Congrats! Will any of the matched be on YT?

Unfortunately not from this tournament but I do have a couple matches going up from another tournament I won last week but it was much smaller nothing to brag about. But I do have a decent set going up soon against a rob with my sheik.

 

[Eisen]

So a lot of people have been wondering

So I've decided to try to pick up Sheik as a third main, mostly because I think her playstyle is a great opposite to my two mains, Shulk and Lucas, and she lets me be aggressive. Naturally, her being top tier helps, but if she had the same style as mid tier I'd probably still want to play her because I honestly like her as a character too? Just the mentality of her being good kinda turned me off to her for a good while, but now the appeal is back.

I'm not TOO bad a player (debatable/borderline top 10 active spot in my state), so I understand theory and basics and applications of things and could probably figure out her tricks myself. Already know a few I don't see utilized often that I think are important. Can anyone direct me to a resource that would allow me to better understand her combos, strings, combo setups, and kill setups per character/percentage/DI?

 

[WondrousMoose]

So a lot of people have been wondering

So I've decided to try to pick up Sheik as a third main, mostly because I think her playstyle is a great opposite to my two mains, Shulk and Lucas, and she lets me be aggressive. Naturally, her being top tier helps, but if she had the same style as mid tier I'd probably still want to play her because I honestly like her as a character too? Just the mentality of her being good kinda turned me off to her for a good while, but now the appeal is back.

I'm not TOO bad a player (debatable/borderline top 10 active spot in my state), so I understand theory and basics and applications of things and could probably figure out her tricks myself. Already know a few I don't see utilized often that I think are important. Can anyone direct me to a resource that would allow me to better understand her combos, strings, combo setups, and kill setups per character/percentage/DI?

Boop.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Speaking of tournaments and sets I'll post this here, GFs of the last tournament I went to which was a qualifier. Big event is happening on the 5th.

Needless to say there are a lot of mistakes I did that I am aware of, and I actually learned a lot from this set and from rewatching it multiple times.

EOE also happens to be one of the best Peaches around and the best player in the irish PR :o

 

[Eisen]

Boop.

Yeah, I saw that thread right after I posted and felt dumb. But honestly, I went straight to this thread from the general "character discussion" forum because I had to be somewhere soon afterward, and I'm not used to the organization that this Sheik board seems to have. Really helpful place to read at so far, so thank you for that. Even if I don't wind up sticking with Sheik for some reason, I'm gaining knowledge about her, so that's good.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Speaking of tournaments and sets I'll post this here, GFs of the last tournament I went to which was a qualifier. Big event is happening on the 5th.

Well, I wrote up a big ol' critique and then realized this wasn't the critique thread. So, uh, awesome Sheik play!

 

[HoSmash4]

This is legitimately one of those small nuanced areas of Sheik no one's really touched upon yet, but I'm 200% certain this is going to be relevant part of Sheik's top level play at some stage.

You have to consider whether the trade off is worth it. When sheik dies at 80-100%, is it worth it to take 5% damage and a disadvantageous position? The shell doesnt do much shield stun, a lot of ko confirms are merely flashy and not safe, the shell is also very easy to lose if you throw it offstage. Although hopefully it can be used to some good effect by sheiks who have good item play.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Also it only works in certain matchups, in certain scenarios.

 

[HoSmash4]

We've already got a ridiculous projectile in needles, I really think in the matchups where it could be viable (mario, luigi, pika etc), its just a gimmick. For now.

 

[Joaco]

Not to mention our opponent aldo has the opportunity to grab it

 

[Simikins]

In sheik dittos, if for some reason your opponent tosses a nade you can poke them with a needle and steal it. Had some fun with that on for glory against some pocket sheiks.

 

[KingChaos]

Do you guys think it is a bad idea for someone to pull out their pocket sheik vs people like us who main her? In my experience both in practice and watching it they usually don't do to well and often had a better chance while using their main. I feel people are hopping on this have a pocket sheik bandwagon but I don't think it will last as she isn't nearly as free of a win like people think especially trying to use their sheik vs a veteran one who has hours in the lab. I am at the point now where I honestly don't sweat peoples pocket sheiks after game 1 against a different character. Even when I watch streams and people try to pull that out 9/10 times they still lose and even worse than they did game 1.

 

[Simikins]

I don't see why people bother. We main sheik, we know every trick, every situational tech, every useless combo, and for someone to try and counter us, with someone they've picked up after watching Mr R and ZeRo on stream. Please.
It's just kinda illogical.
Not to mention the ditto is our most studied matchup.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Do you guys think it is a bad idea for someone to pull out their pocket sheik vs people like us who main her? In my experience both in practice and watching it they usually don't do to well and often had a better chance while using their main. I feel people are hopping on this have a pocket sheik bandwagon but I don't think it will last as she isn't nearly as free of a win like people think especially trying to use their sheik vs a veteran one who has hours in the lab. I am at the point now where I honestly don't sweat peoples pocket sheiks after game 1 against a different character. Even when I watch streams and people try to pull that out 9/10 times they still lose and even worse than they did game 1.

Yeah, I feel it's bad. You don't just switch to a pocket Sheik and expect to beat a Sheik main lol. People often overestimate 60:40 or even 65:35 matchups, they're doable. They might be annoying but still. I understand that some people switch to their pockets because they feel it's more comfortable for them (I do this; I switch to Roy against Lucario, hate that mu as sheik) but trying to ditto a Sheik main sounds stupid unless you've put an enormous time into her, something they probably don't get to do since it's a pocket.

The other thing is that Sheik isn't really an easy mu as Sheik which i know sounds really hilarious lmao. What I'm saying is, Sheik isn't as easy to combo as say, ZSS or Falcon, because the character you're comboing will also have a disjointed frame 5 nair and a frame 3 nair that can break out of combos and annoy the hell out of you, and vice-versa of course.

 

[Simikins]

It's like pulling out DK against a committed DK main. There's really no point.

 

[KingChaos]

Yeah, I feel it's bad. You don't just switch to a pocket Sheik and expect to beat a Sheik main lol. People often overestimate 60:40 or even 65:35 matchups, they're doable. They might be annoying but still. I understand that some people switch to their pockets because they feel it's more comfortable for them (I do this; I switch to Roy against Lucario, hate that mu as sheik) but trying to ditto a Sheik main sounds stupid unless you've put an enormous time into her, something they probably don't get to do since it's a pocket.

The other thing is that Sheik isn't really an easy mu as Sheik which i know sounds really hilarious lmao. What I'm saying is, Sheik isn't as easy to combo as say, ZSS or Falcon, because the character you're comboing will also have a disjointed frame 5 nair and a frame 3 nair that can break out of combos and annoy the hell out of you, and vice-versa of course.

Yea the Sheik ditto is incredibly complex and so all these people thinking that sheik is the answer to beating a sheik has another thing coming. Takes a lot of practice and knowing what to look for during the ditto to come out on top. I find it silly but hey let them figure that out the hard way. Smash 4 sheik isn't brawl MK who was literally a free win if you just knew how to camp and spam your *** off.

 

[Shaya]

You have to consider whether the trade off is worth it. When sheik dies at 80-100%, is it worth it to take 5% damage and a disadvantageous position? The shell doesnt do much shield stun, a lot of ko confirms are merely flashy and not safe, the shell is also very easy to lose if you throw it offstage. Although hopefully it can be used to some good effect by sheiks who have good item play.

The main two things I'd envisage are out of shield options and z-catch actions. I've tinkered around with this more in recent times. If it wasn't for it's visual dexterity requirements I'd likely rate it a lot higher, seeing where it is after dropping is... obnoxious (on dark stages).
Just because the obviousness of getting the nut safely isn't too clear right now doesn't mean that won't change .

Also I'd probably be fine with Sheik dittos over another match up if I was in trouble. Sheik is good enough as a character that sometimes you're just going to be out-picked in options a lot of the time, even if you know what's coming. If my fundamentals and neutral are stronger than them (if I know what they're doing, chances are I am) then the Sheik switch in can be successful.
People doing these 'haven't even played before' picks after losing are just bound for failure. It's always going to happen with the character people perceive as abusive (the amount of times I was seeing loss into "picking Falcon" before those two nerf patches was.... incredibly stupid to me... because they'd often be successful).
But yeah, can I use my fundamentals + sheik's stupid punishment spread (dash grab, dash attack or fair oos covers 99% of everything) to beat real sheik mains? Yes.

The main areas on why you would over a well practiced main come down to: I'm losing off stage for free without easy options (because she's so dominant in this and this guarantees stocks; you aren't gimping sheik in the ditto) and I'm losing neutral very easily (sometimes buttons are hard, and sheik's are each very potent in vacuum, she tends to need to respect herself in neutral).

 

[Simikins]

For people like you Shaya, I think it would work. Because your pocket sheik is studied, and you learn a lot of what the mains learn. Many people aren't committed the same way you are, and for those people this applies. For people who's pocket sheik is more like a studied secondary, it would be viable.

 

[smashPony]

Would anyone here with a capture card be willing to upload a replay to YouTube for me? I just did the most ridiculous Sheik combo and I'd like to show it to the boards. Lots of perfect pivots were involved.

 

[Joaco]

Would anyone here with a capture card be willing to upload a replay to YouTube for me? I just did the most ridiculous Sheik combo and I'd like to show it to the boards. Lots of perfect pivots were involved.

I'll always be willing to

 

[Lord Xanthan]

Hello everyone. Would anyone want to play some friendlies on Wii U with me? I need MU experience against Sheik. Or if there's a matchmaking thread in the Sheik board I can post there instead. I couldn't find one so I decided to post in Sheik social instead. If there is a matchmaking thread on here then I apologize for posting in the wrong thread.

 

[DunnoBro]

How do you guys control sheik? Talkin specific inputs here like:

Spacing fairs in neutral
Comboing/following up/edgeguard chases
Baiting air dodges for specials
etc.

Personally I find everything but comboing/following up and non-ffed fairs much easier with z-jump. I could always space fairs with x + c-stick, but Z Jump + c-stick i feel like I can do more consistently and it also links better into SH + bouncing fish followups.

However, actually comboing with aerials is much harder. Just doing full jumps into uair kills is awkward as hell. Also non-fast falled fair so you can fade over to be behind the opponent and not get shield grabbed is harder too.

 

[Jaguar360]

Hai Sheiks (and others). I'm a Sheik secondary (I suppose tertiary would be more accurate for me?) and have Sheik as one of my mains in Brawl, PM and SSF2.

I don't know if this is already known, but I haven't seen any Sheiks using fast-fall U-air > U-smash as a kill confirm. While the range is short and does not work on short characters like Diddy and Greninja (unless Greninja is actually standing while idle or in cooldown for a move that causes him to stand), the tipper U-smash seals a stock earlier than normal for Sheik and the setup does not rely on a 50-50 like F-throw --> Bouncing Fish, D-throw --> U-air, F-throw --> U-air, etc do at most percents.

It works on characters that taller or as tell as Ness from my testing last night. On characters around the weight of Ness, Mario and Sonic, it starts working at around 85-90% and KOing at 100-110% without DI. FF U-air --> U-smash is particularly useful on Rosalina, as the tipper works really early because of her height (like 10-20%) and KOs her really early due to her weight and floatiness.

Again, I apologize if this an already known kill confirm and people just haven't been using it often because of its range or if DI affects it or something.

 

[ArikadoSD]

and have Sheik as one of my mains in Brawl, PM and SSF2.

I didn't know Super Street Fighter 2 had Sheik :o

 

[HoSmash4]

I didn't know Super Street Fighter 2 had Sheik :o

Unless this was a joke it's Super Smash Flash 2

 

[Absol]

Girl gotta have her priorities