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HugS reveals what he remembers to

HugS

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
2,964
Location
Southern California (818) San fernando valley
Melee is about to end, and I haven't really been one to reveal much information outside of private talks with certain people. Mainly because people ask for very general advice(which i give) and hardly anything specific.

So I'd like to dedicate this thread to the samus community and divulge as much information as I can about Samus. I'll be focusing on the lesser known aspects of her game to avoid this from becoming just another advice thread. Because of the nature of this "project" my thoughts aren't quite organized and the amount of things that could be said are vast. So, bear with me as I try to organize this and bring forth thoughts that are sitting in the back of my head.

THIS ISN'T A GUIDE. This is only a list of tactics and strategies meant to be added into your already established samus game.

I lose passion for things every now and then so I'm basically going to be working on this on a "when I feel like it" basis. But it WILL be good. Take everything I say with a grain of salt, for this game requires tons of improvisation.


As a footnote to all of this, I'll just say it here and now:
The key to samus is control. Control the stage, control your character, control the speed of the match, control your opponent.

Guaranteed Charge Shots:

SHEIK
It's a shame I never thought of this sooner. Basically, there is a way to guarantee a chargeshot on Sheik (one of samus's most popular match ups). When you grab a sheik, she has 2 options:
1. Don't DI
2. DI away.

With a charge shot in hand, you down throw samus and pay attention. If she DI's in place you can fsmash, dsmash, or charge shot at nearly any percent. If she DI's away, you simply wavedash back and shoot. The shot covers 3/4 all options after that. If she rolls into you she gets shot, if she rolls away (as long as she is not stopped by a ledge) she gets shot, if she techs in place she gets shot. Her only real option is not teching, and really who's going to not tech a samus Dthrow when the samus has a fully charged shot? If she doesn't tech in place, she gets shot. There is really no prediction prowess necessary with this tactic.

Ledge Tactics
The Fake Ledge Jump

I've shown this to about 3 people total. Watty, HUGQ, and Alexandertriad. It is VERY subtle and one may be hard pressed to really find the use of this, but it is amazingly beneficial.

When you hang on the edge and press down to jump off, you enter this spin jump animation. You can land into the stage without being very high over it during this animation (visually speaking). Also, the animation ends instantly, adding to the illusion of being vulnerable. This adds effect to the tactic because your opponent will assume you are still in the middle of the jump and that you are too low to enter the stage anyways.

ATTENTION, all people having difficulty coming in vs Dtilting Marths:
This is your solution.

Platform tactics

Shield Dropping

This is a very underused tactic. Basically, if you are shielding above the platform, you can drop below it while holding your shield up by pressing down in between the pressure of sidestepping and shield angling. When people speak of "mindgames", the application of this tactic can fall under that category.

Got a sheik on your bottom right getting ready to jump and slap your shield? Shield, let her jump, drop while in shield. She is now on top and you are now free to fair or uair. Do you find yourself on a platform while your opponent is shielding in front of you? Shield drop right before your opponent shield grabs and you will be free to counter. It really is a good technique.

Isai's "Auto cancel"

You can up Air into a platform in order to stop yourself from jumping past the platform. It places you right on the platform after jumping from below, and it has less lag than landing with an airdodge.
Application: It can be used to grab opponents that are shielding on platforms. It can also be a useful tactic in evasion.



Up B usage

Behind the Shield
Even a slightly weakened shield can be penetrated with an up B from behind. Experiment.

Up B interception
The up B is not just for use out of shield. I have found that many falco's and foxes have found ways around up B out of shield, but they still have problems combating up B interceptions. When an opponent jumps over you at a reasonable distance, intercept the jump with an up B. It's an easy way to rack up damage and to stop your opponent from doing whatever he wants on the stage.
Remember, the key is CONTROL.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's All I have for now but I will be updating and organizing this regularly as long as people are showing interest. I know Brawl is coming up, so we'll see what happens.
 

AIDS

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,333
Location
Delta B.C. Canada
pretty alright tricks there, i didn't know of dropping while holding sheild, thats pretty cool, good guide, thankz hugS!
 

Dynomite

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
2,899
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
GA_Dyno
hey hugS. nice of you to give away some of you moves. i have a tournament to go to in a few days so this might help. the moves sounds really pro but i cant get the main idea of it.. just so u know this is comming from a person who cant double missile so im not taht pro yet =[ i wana get the growing pot at the tourny so i am traning my ash off knowing this is goning to be the last tournament i will ever go to of melee cuz of brawl comming out so i really wana prove myself as a good SSMB player. but if you have any more advice for us that will be greatly appricated and if u have any spare time u think u can gimi a few 1v1 pointers and 2v2 pointers over aim or something sometime? if not thats kewl i know its too much to ask knowing ur like the best samus player and all.

but thanks a bundle for the tips and moves taht we didnt know <3 many hugs for that :p

EDIT: Phenna thanks a lot for thoes platform videos that helps alot! <3 greatly appriciated.
that pc jump drop was amazing btw.. gota learn that.. good mindgame there.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
1. Thanks for the tips again. I'm only sad I didn't hit the tournament scene much sooner so that I'd be better now.
2. I didn't know some of those things were tricks. They just came naturally. lol at myself
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
Ah, thanks a lot HugS. Really nice of you to be doing this. I look forward to more...


Just for me:

Fake Ledge Jump - Yeah, my friend uses that one on me a lot, but I didn't realize it until I had learned about it just now.

Shield Drop - As a retort, I use this one a lot on him...

Behind the Shield - Ohhhh... that's why. I'll definitely consider this one as an option now.

"Auto Cancel" - Didn't really notice this one before, I'll work with it and see what happens.

(Up+B interception - I'm surprised I don't see people use this as a valid option actually...)

Shiek stuff - Thanks. I don't play shiek at all, so I'll keep that in mind for next time.

And I -definitely- picked up "control" as the theme from watching you play, so thanks for confirming that...


I have a suggestion for a topic - Options when recovering on a platform, perhaps? Like the middle platforms on Battlefield or Yoshi Story - and if it's character specific, that's better probably (like against a Falcon, and what attack he will most likely go for, and then what to do). At least, it's something I'd be interested in. Thanks again...
 

Rat

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
1,870
Location
Chicago
I just wanted to say thanks for this stuff. Using this helped a lot. I even placed 3rd at the local tournament last weekend. Fake ledgehop is awesome. Probably her best ledge tactic.
 

HugS

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
2,964
Location
Southern California (818) San fernando valley
I edited my post, According to m2k, a dthrow to wavedash back to chargeshot on sheik works 100% of the time. The frame data for teching and not teching is about the same, so theoretically the shot should still hit.

sigh, too little too late.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
I edited my post, According to m2k, a dthrow to wavedash back to chargeshot on sheik works 100% of the time. The frame data for teching and not teching is about the same, so theoretically the shot should still hit.

sigh, too little too late.
Hey, come on now... keep that chin up! We can always just make our own little tier, right here.

God:
Samus

Yay! Don't you feel better? I do.
 

The Alpha Gundam

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,759
Location
(Columbus,Ga)
I edited my post, According to m2k, a dthrow to wavedash back to chargeshot on sheik works 100% of the time. The frame data for teching and not teching is about the same, so theoretically the shot should still hit.

sigh, too little too late.
ITS NEVER 2 LATE:)
ummm whenever you have the time could you elaborate on Samus vs Falco PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 

AIDS

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,333
Location
Delta B.C. Canada
i agree, i doubt it is to late for melee, due to the huge disapointment in brawl.
i think the ssbm community will not die nearly as easy as the ssb64 community did.
 

sherigami

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
229
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desu
melee will never die.

anyways, can somebody please elaborate on the fake ledgehop technique? I didn't quite understand what he said
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
ya that shield drop technique really is underused, i remember playing you at pound and you did that alot, switches up the situation, i have to revise my platform trapping techniques to staying strictly underneath instead of working around the shield with bairs

^and that ledgehop technique is just pressing down and fastfalling like you are going to sweetspot reset, but you jump slightly earlier and then barely land on the stage which cancels the spin animation then you can surprise them with a downsmash or ftilt. ive seen joe bushmans ganon use this too.
 

majoras.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
440
Location
TX
this thread is full of samus players not wanting melee to die......, i feel sad now :(
 

AIDS

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,333
Location
Delta B.C. Canada
Melee is amazing!
you should know that mojoras! you are an ok player.
Brawl is not fast enough or cool enough for my taste.
no combo's or cool stuff =(
 

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx
Ive played melee since 01. im ready for it to go. it was a great ride.

move on to brawl, its the future.
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Ive played melee since 01. im ready for it to go. it was a great ride.

move on to brawl, its the future.
i just started playing in 06, so im not, as are alot of people. but i see where you are coming from.

even so i prolly still wouldnt want to play brawl
 

TACO_CL

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4
Location
818 Van Nuys CA
i just started playing in 06, so im not, as are alot of people. but i see where you are coming from.

even so i prolly still wouldnt want to play brawl
^ Same here.
Now why are we making this a Brawl vs Melee discussion?
Stick to what HugS is talking about.
Hugo I've read this and your "Control " blog on AIB and have learned so much from it.
It's completely changed my mindset and made me tweak my playstyle for my Samus.
Thanks man.
ope to play your Samus at Pat's house one time...maybe teach me IRL?
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
awesome info, and thanks for sharing it hugs! iv been doing the upB stuff already as you said especially with intercepting and stuff, and I just started to learn the sheik stuff myself, though its good to see it here laid out. would the sheik every DI towards you? if so, is there anything you can do out of that, or is it obvious what to do when it happens?

also, can you please elaborate on this fake ledge jump, or possibly have a video whereu use it? im a lil confused about it.

its still good to learn this lol. i live in PA, melee is bigger than brawl here surprisingly
 

AIDS

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,333
Location
Delta B.C. Canada
(refferance to soap) move on to a future of no fun, i don't get it?

I started playing in 2006, but melee is a game of amazing fun, and going from melee to brawl is just not doable. it is like going from a mantion to a card board box in the middle of winter....not happening!
 
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