Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Renth]

Instead of "being on peoples cases" you worry about yourself. omg u guy No use this?!? nooooobsss.

 

[Renth]

Since we can't discuss things without someone being a biased tard. we need some vids we can collectively critque

 

[Superspright]

I just don't grasp how having every conceivable option is a bad thing. It's not like Ganon is as tech intensive as space animals or ICs...why can't we at least try to be able to do everything? If I had been playing forever I'd already know how to do this stuff--but I gotta learn.

 

[-ACE-]

Renth, I make posts for good discussion and input from others. Sure I expressed my view that chaingrabbing is underused, and taking guaranteed damage is often better than gambling for damage, but I'm not telling anyone how to play, nor do I think anyone is crazy for not wanting to chaingrab. Let's not get carried away.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vZYgdj4AiE

match 3 i go ganon, and i thought i did well, but it wasn't enough to win. any ideas?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i can't see how it beats a sweet spot because the uair goes...upwards. at no point during that tech will you hit anything below you, so pardon me for failing how to see how it covers anything of use that is below you.

edit: maybe it's just been too long since i've tried such things.

 

[-ACE-]

I think superspright went from talking about the reverse uair regrab (which is what he was talking about originally but you and renth thought he meant ledgedrop uair) to a regular invincible ledgedrop uair (comments on hitting characters trying to sweetspot) without saying anything lol. At least that's what I assumed.

 

[-ACE-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vZYgdj4AiE

match 3 i go ganon, and i thought i did well, but it wasn't enough to win. any ideas?

at 6:14 you let that edgeguard attempt go... I know he was at 0% and it's hard to get the KO but you could have reverse uair spiked him and then dair'd his next up-B... who knows, he could meteor cancel too late. Your stomp at 6:50 was just barely off lol. You had some really nice recovery techs, that samus nair can be a pain. Also, when samus misses a grab and is standing there like a fish out of water, don't grab, stomp that a$s and follow up with another aerial. You played pretty well, samus is gay. Last time I played esam it went about the same way lol. He was a baby step ahead of me the whole match. Then he switched to fox.

Also at 7:54 I was surprised not to see a fair come out after that uair!

 

[Upke]

I'm confused by Superspright. First, I'd like to know if he means ledge DROP (i.e. letting go of the ledge into an up air then returning to the ledge) or ledge HOP (i.e. jumping after immediately letting go of the ledge into an up air). He said ledge drop a number of times, but I know that one is really easy. After seeing him mention it, I tried it in a fight and it was no problem. But he does say "ledgedrop uair REGRAB is not just something you do on one shot without practice" which makes me assume he meant ledgehop, because I could imagine that having a tight window for a regrab without up-B of course.

Also, if you're using it to hit someone who is about to sweetspot the ledge, but you're already on the ledge, why not roll?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Upke, it's ledge HOP uair to regrab. You ledge hop uair, but don't land on stage. You do it so quickly that you can regrab the ledge after your uair. And superspright is right, it takes fast hands, but like any other tech skill, muscle memory goes a long way, it's about as easy as wavelanding from the ledge if you do it quickly enough.

And yo, chris, I didn't watch the match yet, but I saw it was on dreamland- your first mistake. I'm learning the matchup by playing ripple's campy ass samus, so I can actually probably give you some decent advice... coming soon.

 

[Superspright]

Ledgehop I always thought was pressing jump on the ledge--and ledgedropping is dropping off of the ledge. You can drop off ledge, jump and uair and then regrab the ledge. you'll be invincible for the uair until it finishes and then you regrab the ledge. You can to drop off and jump right after--think of it like wavedashing...just a few quick inputs. It''s techskill--but not the hardest. You die if you mess up though.

The difficult stuff to do with Ganon is probably perfect shielddrops from aerials that AC or edge-canceled dair into a follow up of some sort. That stuff is not easy to do--but his ledge tech is very important. Ganon should chill on the ledge if he's any good. I need to feel more comfortable there--it's his safest zone. Not to literally HANG out there, but his opponent doesn't have any good options to get him off if he tries to get back on.

 

[Upke]

I've always called dropping off without a jump a ledgedrop, using your second jump a ledgehop, and pressing X or Y a ledgejump. But yeah, thanks for clearing that up. I don't know if there are unanimously accepted terms for these.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

lol yeah, i probably just knew i couldn't edgeguard him for ****, so just wanted to carry him across as far as i could lol. idk why i froze on that recovery. probably figured he'd sweetspot, and i was afraid of getting faired into things. ledgeplay vs samus is weird.

if you want to see what i've been up to with fox, winners semis vs taheem and losers finals vs moo were really good sets.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Hey, I've played taheem! Marth player, right? And who does moo play? If I recall correctly, I remember an ooooooooold match Renth vs. this yoshi who called himself moo.

Yo Chris, one of the most useful tips I've ever gotten vs. samus is that she SUCKS on the ledge, just bair, it's that simple. If you space it correctly, even ledge hop fair won't beat it- it won't even trade. Uhh, edge guarding is tough. I like to grab the ledge immediately and refresh my invincibility frames and see what happens. If you think that samus is going to use the grapple to recover, stay on the ledge and see what happens. If you're lucky, you can predict when your opponent will get to the ledge and sometimes hit them with a ledge hop uair (not regrab).

Full hop uair to dj fair/waveland is great for avoiding missiles and stuffing a lot of samus's approaches (in other words, covers options). Baiting a grab vs. samus is tough because most samus players tend to use their grabs pretty conservatively, but if they whiff or something, just stomp that **** and fair. I'll see what else I can think of and get back to you.


And yo, kage what the hell is the joke behind people blaming you every time the stream goes out? lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Ledgehop I always thought was pressing jump on the ledge--and ledgedropping is dropping off of the ledge. You can drop off ledge, jump and uair and then regrab the ledge. you'll be invincible for the uair until it finishes and then you regrab the ledge. You can to drop off and jump right after--think of it like wavedashing...just a few quick inputs. It''s techskill--but not the hardest. You die if you mess up though.

The difficult stuff to do with Ganon is probably perfect shielddrops from aerials that AC or edge-canceled dair into a follow up of some sort. That stuff is not easy to do--but his ledge tech is very important. Ganon should chill on the ledge if he's any good. I need to feel more comfortable there--it's his safest zone. Not to literally HANG out there, but his opponent doesn't have any good options to get him off if he tries to get back on.

if you mess it up, you just...have to up B. granted, having to up B is sort of death, but not really. to me, the invincible uair that is useful against marth is not the instant jump one, but rather the one where you actually drop with the uair, cut through his up b while invincible, and get back at your own leisure. somehow i just feel like a marth with a brain isn't going to be coming back at an angle that would allow the first technique to hit very often, and honestly, if you hit marth with a reverse uair offstage, how you make it back really isn't of any concern, as the marth is dying anyway. if an uair regrab is your way of stalling, then...okay i guess.

as for staying near the edge, I disagree. fighting out of the corner isn't really something ganon is good at in my opinion. our hitboxes are much better at boxing people in, and cutting off options of approach. i don't think being in a corner is very fun for us ever, even though we do have some of the best and most varied options from the edge in the game.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Chris, the ledge hop uair regrab is useful vs. marth when they still have their double jump and could do something like air dodge on stage. If they are out of options, then obviously ledge drop uair is the undisputed best option. But ripple got used to that and tried to bait it out of me. When I realized what he was doing, I mixed it up and did the ledge hop uair regrab and it really works. And even if you miss, you're invincible and you regrab the ledge, so I'd say it's decently safe. I have yet to be punished for it anyway. That's not to say it's unpunishable, but I think it's safe to say that it's difficult to punish unless you predict it.

 

[Superspright]

Up-b should be a death...you gotta grab ledge. They grab ledge goodbye stock. M2K plays shiek from the corner...Ganon can be played there too. If you can't get control of the center then hang out at the edge or use it once in a while as a counter-attack. I see Ganon's drunk on stage control too much. It's not worth it all the time. He has the tools to edge-guard everyone, and has the tools to put people off stage. It's how we use them that decides if we win or not, and the ledge is a not a place where we can threaten like the middle of the stage--but trying to run up and get back to center from the edge is detrimental and flawed. One misread and we die.

 

[Divinokage]

I dont think theres really something behind everyone blaming me when i break the stream. lol.. It's just very easy to put the blame on me, im a very easy going guy and relaxed most of the time and im bad at counter-trolling.. all that together = gg. The way I troll someone is by being half-serious and being sneaky which works all the time. lol.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

And yo, kage what the hell is the joke behind people blaming you every time the stream goes out? lol

The first time it went out on Sunday Kage had just arrived in the stream and said "Hi" or some sort of greeting and Prog blamed him for the stream going down and then after that everyone blamed him every time it crashed.

 

[Upke]

Blame Prog for blaming Kage. But it's true that Kage was just too strong for the stream to handle. Damn it, Kage.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Up-b should be a death...you gotta grab ledge. They grab ledge goodbye stock. M2K plays shiek from the corner...Ganon can be played there too. If you can't get control of the center then hang out at the edge or use it once in a while as a counter-attack. I see Ganon's drunk on stage control too much. It's not worth it all the time. He has the tools to edge-guard everyone, and has the tools to put people off stage. It's how we use them that decides if we win or not, and the ledge is a not a place where we can threaten like the middle of the stage--but trying to run up and get back to center from the edge is detrimental and flawed. One misread and we die.

*sigh* i guess i'll just retreat to the fox boards. enjoy your ledge.

 

[-ACE-]

*sigh* i guess i'll just retreat to the fox boards. enjoy your ledge.

I don't agree with superspright's last sentence there, but Ganon mains don't "*sigh*". Enjoy Fox.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

fox is boring as ****. heavy characters or gtfo.

I see Ganon's drunk on stage control too much. It's not worth it all the time.

 

[-ACE-]

Should replace serious with "trolling"

 

[Upke]

I agree with Eikelmann, Fox is pretty boring.

 

[Divinokage]

Well its not that boring when you can actually take games off the players that constantly beat you. lol.

 

[Upke]

I prefer Pikachu. Tail spike too stronk.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Well its not that boring when you can actually take games off the players that constantly beat you. lol.

it's the easy way out. fox is boring, and so is winning with him. he's also ridiculously easy and has like 987418973289173897 options at any given moment. what's the fun/challenge in that?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I like gimping fox.

LOL autocorrect changed gimping to humping.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

tipman, renth, rock crock, spider sense, myself, linguini

 

[Divinokage]

Neither of you look like Ganon mains lol. Tipman a little though.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

neither? you mean none?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

neither? you mean none?

Give him a break, he's ESL

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo is renth the one with the misfits shirt? My man

and what kage said. Yall are too skinny to be ganon mains.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I was the tallest there and I'm about 193. Definitely not too skinny to be a Ganondorf main.

And yeah, Renth (Mark) is a Misfit.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Just a joke man, I would never dis a ganon bro.

its just funny that a lot of ganon mains tend to be big dudes, kage, ace, trail, myself...

 

[Upke]

I'm the opposite of a big dude, but Ganon is but my secondary.

 

[-ACE-]

Ian how in the flying **** do you weigh 193 rofl. I would have guessed 165 with a winter coat on soaking wet.

 

[Ripple]

I'd like to see someone guess my weight.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

yall need more muscle to be true ganondorf mains. on that note, i was chillin with nintendude and fly at big house 2 and i felt too large to be an ic main.

reading chris and wrenth's posts, i've suddenly been struck with the urge to pwn you two in ganon dittos once more. You're my bois, but i feel empty when i'm not ****** you guys in dittos.

rockcrock is a ripped lil dude, he's like a mini ganondorf, so he's legit.