Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Try me

Come to NC. I'll show you some sveet edgeguarding

 

[Divinokage]

Try me

I guess I need to 4 stock this dude again.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Haha you'll be lucky if you get a game

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Come to NC. I'll
show you some sveet edgeguarding

Ace, what city do you live in and how far from the outer banks are you?

 

[-ACE-]

I live in wilmington, about 5 hours away (when i'm not working in random spots up and down the east coast). I grew up in frisco though, right on hatteras island.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

5 hours? bummer. No worries tho, well play sometime im sure, even if not at FC

 

[RaphaelRobo]

New thing I'm going to add to my play is using Up-B in funny ways and the way it should be done too.. I have to implement it I think. It's needed at this point imo, it can give openings you wouldn't normally be able to get.

I'm very interested in what the results of this are. I've always felt like UpB has a lot of untapped potential, but the risk is so high that I didn't think many Ganon mains were at the point where they could try using it. The only Ganon main that seems willing to use it is Level 9 Ganon. It's pretty much the only good thing about him. It's interesting to watch a Lv9 Ganon, though, because his use of UpB definitely takes advantage of openings that most of us wouldn't be able to take advantage of.

 

[Divinokage]

That's because the comps reaction is basically 1 frame, I'm trying to get fast enough to react very fast that way.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That's why I think the only Ganon's that could use UpB are you, and the Ganon's who specialize in speed and reaction time. Smart Ganon's are going to be too slow, and I feel like technical Ganon's won't have the required reaction time.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I'm basically all reactions at least a huge part of my play, that's how I trained and how my mind works, it's all memory. I sometimes predict but it's rare.

 

[Renth]

To repeat what I said on the last page..

I was expecting a discussion about up b use to emerge.



Here's a few:

When someones above you on a platform and you short hop they will shield every time assuming you're going to up air, take the free Up b instead.

Obviously i'm sure you know, up b out of shield is great! especially when someones tapping on your shield from behind.

When you're being edge guarded and you know someone is waiting for you to try to sweet spot a lot of the time I intentionally up b directly into them hoping to grab them. (which usually works)

Technical Ganons.. not having reaction time..? You're insane.




The reason up b isn't utilized is because of the harsh punishment you get if you miss.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Well, I feel like it's a different type of reaction time. Technical Ganons seem to react more to their character's movement and the stage, whereas players like Kage react to the opponent.

I didn't even see a post of yours about UpB, so I'm going to go read it now.

EDIT: Well, I read the rest of that post, so I guess I missed the part about upB.

Those are all the uses for UpB that I know about (although I'm not particularly good at actually using them). I'm very interested in what other uses people can come up with.

 

[G. Vice]

Well, I feel like it's a different type of reaction time. Technical Ganons seem to react more to their character's movement and the stage, whereas players like Kage react to the opponent.

I didn't even see a post of yours about UpB, so I'm going to go read it now.

EDIT: Well, I read the rest of that post, so I guess I missed the part about upB.

Those are all the uses for UpB that I know about (although I'm not particularly good at actually using them). I'm very interested in what other uses people can come up with.

...I think I'm going to have to agree with Renth on this one. If a "technical" ganon is able to pinpoint time his wavelands and such to within a few frames, yet can't time his up-b out of shield? I don't follow how that could be possible.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

A technical Ganon can upB out of shield just fine. I just don't think he'll be as accurate with it as a reflex based Ganon. Like I said, I think a technical Ganon reacts to his character's location in regards to the stage, which is what's required for things like wavelands. I think reacting to a moving object that's out of your control (the opponent) is very different, and not what a technical Ganon is trained for. I do think a technical Ganon would be better at his UpB than a smart Ganon, though.

If you can prove me wrong about this, go ahead. I know I don't know as much about this game as you guys, so I could be wrong. I'd like some proof first, though.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i do think there is a slight difference between what i would call "bedroom precision" and being able to react and apply things swiftly. the quick actions it takes to get a grab on spacies (maybe a pivot grab to punish a badly spaced nair) use a slightly different skillset than timing all the subsequent grabs to get the CG on falco.

that being said, if you're capable of one, you should start to pick up the other.

 

[Renth]

*snip*

I just realized you have over 2k posts and have a 2011 join date o_O

You are a chatterbox

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yep. I have the power of posting too often.

However, it's because most of the time I'm on a computer, since I'm a Computer Science major, and I usually keep a Smashboards tab open and refresh my subscriptions whenever I'm waiting for a program to compile or something. Or, if I'm watching a show on Hulu, I refresh my subscriptions page during the commercials.

 

[G. Vice]

A technical Ganon can upB out of shield just fine. I just don't think he'll be as accurate with it as a reflex based Ganon. Like I said, I think a technical Ganon reacts to his character's location in regards to the stage, which is what's required for things like wavelands. I think reacting to a moving object that's out of your control (the opponent) is very different, and not what a technical Ganon is trained for. I do think a technical Ganon would be better at his UpB than a smart Ganon, though.

If you can prove me wrong about this, go ahead. I know I don't know as much about this game as you guys, so I could be wrong. I'd like some proof first, though.

I don't even understand where you're really coming from with this. Idk, maybe I don't understand, but I don't view smash in that light at all. Kage is proving day by day that Ganon can be technical and smart. I think your terminology is very relative.

 

[Renth]

Carroll (Marth) Vs. Renth (Ganon)

He won the tournament set.

I won the money match.

- Marth isn't one of my strongest match ups feel free to tell me to STOP TRYING TO DOWN AIR THE U TILT. Cause apparently getting hit for it every time isn't clue enough.

 

[-ACE-]

5 hours? bummer. No worries tho, well play sometime im sure, even if not at FC

Are you going to be on the outer banks? When?

Renth: yeah avoid that utilt like the plague. Do anything you can to land on stage without being touched, but if you have to take a hit, SDI it behind marth (unless it would put you offstage) and reset the neutral spacing.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't even understand where you're really coming from with this. Idk, maybe I don't understand, but I don't view smash in that light at all. Kage is proving day by day that Ganon can be technical and smart. I think your terminology is very relative.

While Kage is proving Ganons can be technical and smart, I still think the majority of players are either one or the other, not both.

But, I'll try to clarify what I said more:

Wavelanding requires reacting to your character's location relative to the stage. Your character is a moving object under your control, and the stage is a static location, so you always know where either of them will be. Because of this, you're reacting to the specific time when your character is about to land.

On the other hand, in order to UpB well, you need to react to your opponent. Like your character, the opponent is a moving object. However, the opponent is completely out of your control, so you can't know where they will be and what they will be doing with 100% accuracy. This means you need to be reacting to your opponents movements and actions.

In other words, you're talking about reacting to something completely under your control, or reacting to something that's out of your control. While skills overlap, it's still different than what they've trained for.

 

[-ACE-]

Raph you should probably keep more of an open mind when looking at this game. No particular strength in this game automatically designates you a weakness.

Also some of you might be forgetting that tech skill isn't all speed and fancy tricks. Having good tech skill means you have total control of your character... you do what you want. Your character executes your intended moves/maneuvers flawlessly. Kage is a very technical player imo and probably has the least amount of fancy tricks up his sleeve.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Raph you should probably keep more of an open mind when looking at this game. No particular strength in this game automatically designates you a weakness.

Also some of you might be forgetting that tech skill isn't all speed and fancy tricks. Having good tech skill means you have total control of your character... you do what you want. Your character executes your intended moves/maneuvers flawlessly. Kage is a very technical player imo and probably has the least amount of fancy tricks up his sleeve.

I never said it gives you a weakness, just that you won't be as good at something as someone who specializes in it.

You can specialize in some areas in your gameplay. Meaning you'll be good at those, but because you've specialized, you'll be bad at whatever you neglected. Or, you could just to not specialize in anything, meaning every area of your gameplay will be decent, but nothing will be good.

I do feel that for every strength, there is a corresponding weakness. How you choose to cover that weakness is up to the player, but everything has it's flaws. Finding those flaws is the key to beating someone.

And I'm definitely forgetting that tech skill isn't speed and flashiness.

 

[G. Vice]

Kage is a very technical player imo and probably has the least amount of fancy tricks up his sleeve.

My point exactly. Kage is INSANELY technical, but I don't think for a moment that he gets the notice for what he's actually good at. The insane SDI that looks insignificant on the surface but actually is preventing combos and possible stocks...that's what makes him a technical player. I think my Ganon could out flash him all day, but I'm by no means as technical as him. Nor as smart.

Thanks ACE, I can always count on you to so eloquently say what I cannot.

 

[Divinokage]

What people see I think generally are my reads and how I punish which looks violent (And I like it that way). lol, But ya all those little details like positioning, decisions or DI aren't really noticed, but what can I do.. People like good flashy combos anyway. =P

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Are you going to be on the outer banks? When?

Tomorrow! through next Saturday and then I come back to meet up with eikelmann.

 

[-ACE-]

Wow.... not every day a smasher comes to obx. Wilmington has beaches too you should come here lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

With enough play and focus, its not hard for improving players to excel in all facets of the game. While these different facets may exist, and some appear opposite or fundamentally different, for a player with substantial experience, these separate ideas simply become a part of what it means to play with speed and eventually efficiency.

The game breaks down, but once u build it back up, skills link together very quickly

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I agree with that, I just think Kage's the only Ganon like that at the moment. Everyone else seems to only excel at a few areas, and are only alright at others.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Wow.... not every day a smasher comes to obx. Wilmington has beaches too you should come here lol

Well, were actually meeting some family out there so we can't really change the whole course of the trip haha.

But I would have no problem at all taking a day away from the fam to drive out and smash it up with you and (maybe) chris.

If that's possible, lemme know! Cuz you're the one ganon main besides rockcrock, raph, and linguini on here I will not have met by FC.

(I was hesitant to include raph, the closet kirby main)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I read that as closest Kirby main. The fact is, I'm the closest person to a Kirby main that's closest to you. I think. When we play, I'll be happy to show you my Kirby. Kirby to me is like Ganon to Trail. Not our main, but we take it seriously.

My Kirby is actually inflatable, though. I keep it in the closet and only take it out for special occasions. That's why I'm a closet Kirby main.

I'm really out of practice, though, since I've spent the past couple months playing Tales of Vesperia, Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, Assassin's Creed, Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, and Tales of Symphonia. Aside from Tales of Vesperia, which I've finished, I'm only partway through all of those games.

 

[Divinokage]

I agree with that, I just think Kage's the only Ganon like that at the moment. Everyone else seems to only excel at a few areas, and are only alright at others.

Well I think that's mainly because of the skill difference. When you are weaker then obviously you won't be as strong in all areas but the more you get better, the less weaknesses you have. For a while, Linguini and I had a gap where he was better at spacies while I was better at Marth/Falcon.. but I think that gap is being reduced because I know I need to master the spacies matchup since there's so damn many of them!!

If I ever become top 10 player at some point, you'll see I would be someone that's extremely fast and can pretty much execute all aspects of Ganon perfectly, I'm working on it though. =P

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. I think you're the only Ganon with enough skill to be able to effectively use all of his aspects. Everyone else isn't there yet.

In my opinion, if you played Fox/Falco, or a character that was around that good, you'd probably already be considered a top 10 player (or close to it). But you're playing the character that's right for you, which, in my opinion, is more important than being a top 10 player. Besides, you're pushing forward what Ganon is capable of.

 

[spider_sense]

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. I think you're the only Ganon with enough skill to be able to effectively use all of his aspects. Everyone else isn't there yet.

In my opinion, if you played Fox/Falco, or a character that was around that good, you'd probably already be considered a top 10 player (or close to it). But you're playing the character that's right for you, which, in my opinion, is more important than being a top 10 player. Besides, you're pushing forward what Ganon is capable of.

Guess I need some more recent videos of me. D:

 

[G. Vice]

This video reminds me of Ganon...he's always getting bullied by those fast characters...he's always getting poked and prodded, and being laughed at by those high tiers. But once he gets his hands on you...this is what he does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=mEqniEvNcnk&NR=1

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Guess I need some more recent videos of me. D:

Yes, you do. I haven't seen any videos of you in ages, and I like your Ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

Well, were actually meeting some family out there so we can't really change the whole course of the trip haha.

But I would have no problem at all taking a day away from the fam to drive out and smash it up with you and (maybe) chris.

If that's possible, lemme know! Cuz you're the one ganon main besides rockcrock, raph, and linguini on here I will not have met by FC.

(I was hesitant to include raph, the closet kirby main)

lmao raph you are def a closet kirby main

btw, wilmington is less than 4 hrs from nags head, nc.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I consider Kirby a secondary main. As in, not my main, but I take him about as seriously.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

lmao raph you are def a closet kirby main

btw, wilmington is less than 4 hrs from nags head, nc.

Oh, cool. Yea ill be at hatteras, so pretty close to nags head.

You know what? im gonna add you on facebook (dave blackmon, right?) And well see if this can work! damn id be psyched if I could get some unexpected smash in on this vacation.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Guess I need some more recent videos of me. D:

Yes, yes, and yes.