Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[PseudoTurtle]

Whoever said it isn't hard... I can't even do it on a CPU fox with 120%. Yea, it's tough. Like sheik is relatively easy and link is also doable. But damn, I can't even begin to mess around with falco, let alone fox.

This is definitely something I need to work on because I have no idea how to fight the spacies whatsoever (Linguini, this is your cue).

 

[Bl@ckChris]

if you can't regrab, can you jab? the timings aren't really all that different...you'd wanna be a little quicker with the grab, especially at the lower percents, but otherwise...just watch and time a grab once ganon resets.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Falco isn't hard >60. It just requires an hour or so work, and regular practice for a few weeks so you don't forget how to do it. Just to turn around grab, not JC grab. Then, at higher percents, remember to JC Grab.

Fox feels a lot harder, though.

I'm fairly certain you can grab if you can't jab, since jab covers the range you can't get to with a grab, and they aren't going to be outside that range.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea you guys are right, it's probably just practice that I need.

Also, Chris, I was looking for your set with bertbusdriver, but couldn't find it. Do you know if it was recorded?

EDIT: I also have a question about the motion sensor bomb wall-tech thing you suggested. I basically push R as soon as I up-b and then I do the quarter circle as quickly as possible.

The problem I have with it is that I can usually hit the tech, but I can't get the wall jump, which limits my options. I would like to be able to wall jump bair, rather than just wall tech immediate up-b because if they are at low percents, that's another free edge guard. Any suggestions or just more practice. Thanks!

 

[Bl@ckChris]

nah, our pool wasn't recorded. i kinda wish for his sake that it was. i think he was a little frustrated with the way things went, and i feel like taking videos from the experience would have given him something to move forward with.

edit: i THINK the jump buffers, so as long as you're making sure to hold up after the tech, you should jump. i could very easily be wrong about that though. it's really really really frustrating when i tech and then just drop with a back air. it doesn't happen to me often, but when it does, it hurts so much inside. i think it's just due to releasing up too early after the tech.

 

[Divinokage]

http://www.twitch.tv/styc/b/320181620

I have gotten some footage from my Falcon/Ganon recently. You can just look through any matches in there if you guys want.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yea, he said he was a bit disappointed because he considers ganon his best matchup. But he also said you won fair and square, so no johns on his part haha.

And thanks man, that helps actually. What I thought you were doing was a walljump (as if you were about to rockcrock somebody) rather than a walltech double jump.

EDIT: good ****, kage! I can tell you've been working on your tech skill. Way to go, man.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm always listening to what everyone says and I take what I think would be useful for me. I've sneaked in some RLDs for sure, =P

I realized it's good to do when they expect you to waveland normally on stage so they'll very likely attempt to attack you but then if you RLD instead, they will whiff and that can enable you to get a free aerial most likely. Though, you better have read the attack when you RLD. It's kinda risky.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'm always listening to what everyone says and I take what I think would be useful for me. I've sneaked in some RLDs for sure, =P

Yea, you did. I was glad to see that. And yea, that's exactly when I use it. The very first time that somebody punishes me/reads my regular ledge dash, I throw in a RLD because they don't see it coming and get punished. It's all about the mixups I guess.

You've also worked on your edgeguarding. At least, it looks that way to me.

People will come to fear the new kage at FC. Eikelmann and I can't wait to have you over the night before and teach us how to play ganon haha (if, of course, that plan still carries through).

 

[Geenareeno]

Just a little input on the walltech-jump. You just hold up on the control stick the entire time. But I believe on the frame you initiate the tech you have 4 frames to press jump if you want to do it that way.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Geen, the problem with that is that you need the quarter circle for smash di. Like you won't be able to tech a Marth dtilt or a jiggs dsmash by just holding up on the control stick, I think. You need to SDI into the stage to hit it, and then tech. I think that's what Magus said, and he knows what he's talking about.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I want to do this thing right

 

[Divinokage]

Yea, you did. I was glad to see that. And yea, that's exactly when I use it. The very first time that somebody punishes me/reads my regular ledge dash, I throw in a RLD because they don't see it coming and get punished. It's all about the mixups I guess.

You've also worked on your edgeguarding. At least, it looks that way to me.

People will come to fear the new kage at FC. Eikelmann and I can't wait to have you over the night before and teach us how to play ganon haha (if, of course, that plan still carries through).

I hope that plan carries through, it would be sweet. So if I would go to Chicago, how would we get to the tournament?

I did also realize I have to work some basic setups as well in general.. the tournament pressure is definitely hard to handle at times. =P But ya, I've been working on other characters/speeding up my play and also trying out new things which can give me more tools to trick people with.

Getting good at many dittos is also a fun goal I'd like to pursue. Like Falcon dittos, Marth dittos. It's good stuff..

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I figured you would fly into ohare anyway simply because its less than 2 hours away from the venue, but I live about 5-10 minutes away, so I would figure it would be easier to fly in either the night before or a few days before (like eikelmann) and chill at my place--free food, housing, and other necessary stuff such as alcohol will be provided and smash with me, kels, trail, sveet, orly and the rest of chicago. Then, on the day of the tournament, I can drive you, eikelmann, and probably a couple other people up to south bend as its less than a 2 hour drive; not so bad. Im not sure about hotels in south bend (as its a 3 day tournament, we would all probably need to stay in a hotel unless day two is dedicated to brawl, then we could just drive back to my house), but id be down to split the cost of a room with anybody just for cheapness/convenience sake.

As for your secondaries, I really like your falcon! Keep it up, man. Depending on how much I improve come this august, i may throw a money match your way vs. Your falcon- he's my best matchup at this point haha.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i have literally no money for a hotel lol ;_;

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck why does this seem so hard all of the sudden

 

[PseudoTurtle]

i have literally no money for a hotel lol ;_;

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck why does this seem so hard all of the sudden

Then we will have to hope day 2 is dedicated to brawl so we can go back to my house haha. If not, we can work something out, don't worry about it. I don't think anybody should be denied their right to smash simply because of money issues.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Around that time I think ill be taking the road trip of my life. Nc to buffalo ny, then leave buffalo for south bend for fc, and then back to nc for college. I think chicago is an overshoot, so I probably won't end up at the house, but we"ll see how things go.

 

[Divinokage]

I figured you would fly into ohare anyway simply because its less than 2 hours away from the venue, but I live about 5-10 minutes away, so I would figure it would be easier to fly in either the night before or a few days before (like eikelmann) and chill at my place--free food, housing, and other necessary stuff such as alcohol will be provided and smash with me, kels, trail, sveet, orly and the rest of chicago. Then, on the day of the tournament, I can drive you, eikelmann, and probably a couple other people up to south bend as its less than a 2 hour drive; not so bad. Im not sure about hotels in south bend (as its a 3 day tournament, we would all probably need to stay in a hotel unless day two is dedicated to brawl, then we could just drive back to my house), but id be down to split the cost of a room with anybody just for cheapness/convenience sake.

As for your secondaries, I really like your falcon! Keep it up, man. Depending on how much I improve come this august, i may throw a money match your way vs. Your falcon- he's my best matchup at this point haha.

Sounds good, I guess that sounds like a good plan to me for FC. =P Well, I have no problems splitting a hotel with you guys so that's good enough.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Yo Black Chris, i just watched your matches with eggm and I think you really need to utilize the platforms way more in your fox matchup. Use them to vary your approaches, when you stick to the ground/shuffle approaches vs fox ganon becomes way too predictable. Also, you gotta react to those firefoxes, esp when they are recovering diagonaly from above the stage most foxes like to start up their firefox. Run out there and fair/up air that ****, should be a kill everytime they do that non-sense. Ur matches vs chops are about as good/better than i would have done, I don't understand that matchup. I would of banned FD tho, **** that stage vs spacies.

 

[Divinokage]

If you get to fight best of 5 matches than you'll need to learn FD with Ganon.. if you really can't like me, (Because I hate the stage in general) then you'll need to change char for FD.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How many rulesets actually use the "no bans in bo5"? At my tournaments, I choose to remove DSR but allow each player to have a single ban. I think stage bans are an inherent balancing mechanism the community has had in the ruleset from the beginning and removing it from a set is unfair. Some match-ups are very difficult on FD such as anyone vs ICs, spacies vs marth/peach, samus vs spacies, etc. Perhaps if FD was globally banned, I would be more willing to have no stage bans in a Bo5, but otherwise I find it to be quite unfair.

 

[Divinokage]

Well definitely in the EU ruleset, they do that and also we have been doing that recently as well. They also used that ruleset at Zenith so it's pretty much the general standard overall.. I mean TOs can do what they want but from where I live and around a 6 hour radius, which means Mtl, NY, Toronto.. we've all been using that ruleset since it's the current trend pretty much. I don't really mind it, it allows me to learn more characters. =P

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Damn. FD just sucks so hard man. Probably the #1 most banned stage

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Yea, he said he was a bit disappointed because he considers ganon his best matchup. But he also said you won fair and square, so no johns on his part haha.

And thanks man, that helps actually. What I thought you were doing was a walljump (as if you were about to rockcrock somebody) rather than a walltech double jump.

well, just let him know to dashdance more, and it probably can go back to being his best matchup. he approached far too directly with his nairs, and it was too easy to take him out of the sky with up angled ftilts and bair. it's actually the first time i've been able to use up angled ftilts effectively.

it actually is the same as a rockcrock. only difference is you have to DI into the stage instead of getting up B'd toward the stage. what happens after the tech is exactly the same.

edit: thanks trail. i feel like with the edgeguards, i tend to be really afraid of head hunt side B's if it seems like an option they'll choose. i tend to look really dumbfounded on video when i look for side B and an up b starts. i should be able to react to them though, but that's just a part of the focus shift that i have trouble with (i'm a scrub that looks at myself more than the opponent ) As for chops, i was more afraid of yoshi's story shine combos than FD things. probably a terrible decision, but every time i find a good falco that knows how to combo, triple shines off the top of yoshis happen, and they make me sad. Thanks again for watching and giving your input

 

[Geenareeno]

Omaigawd I wish I could go this ****. I would need to be close/older though.

Geen, the problem with that is that you need the quarter circle for smash di. Like you won't be able to tech a Marth dtilt or a jiggs dsmash by just holding up on the control stick, I think. You need to SDI into the stage to hit it, and then tech. I think that's what Magus said, and he knows what he's talking about.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I want to do this thing right

Yeah I realized that as I was writing it. How exactly do you QCDI properly? If you want to go left would you press

:stick2::stick1::stick4:

or

:stick1::stick4::stick7:


I'm assmuing you just roll it around the time you're getting hit and press L, right?

 

[Ripple]

you don't need QCSI in order to SDI.

and you also can't SDI down on a move when you are already on the ground

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i realised i don't have a teammate for fc, lol

what to do when i don't know anyone

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Sounds good, I guess that sounds like a good plan to me for FC. =P Well, I have no problems splitting a hotel with you guys so that's good enough.

we gonna throw bak a few brews this time round warrior

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i believe the latter of those options is what you'd be looking for. if you want to do the techjump, you'd finish the motion by holding up, and then of course, the bair would come next.

also, after watching my vid vs lambchops again, i noticed at 2:06 i tried to confirm a powershield laser to grab...but the laser i powershielded ran off at an angle instead of back at the falco. does anyone else really hate it when that happens? maybe it's just me cause powershield laser to grab is one of my primary approaches against falco, especially when i play fox lol

 

[Magus420]

You can just hold straight left/right towards the stage, press L/R right before you get in range of being hit by them, then during hitlag roll the stick to diagonal up/towards. Starting the stick from below that (like down/towards) is unnecessary for SDI as you trigger that by going into a positive Y stick position in this case, adds time between when you begin moving it and when you get a SDIable input, and generally gives worse DI if you get hit unexpectedly early. You'll get the SDI, walljump tech, generally decent DI if you get hit early before you start moving the stick, and generally good DI if you get hit later than you expected.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

you don't need QCSI in order to SDI.

Yea, but you only get one SDI in that case. In this case, you get multiple, which can help tech a marth dtilt or something that's really tough to tech.

Also, geen: it's the second one.

I guess the reason I'm not getting the walljump is that I'm not going fast enough and only doing the 1st stick roll. Practice time.

 

[Ripple]

hey joe, my uploading video quality just shot through the roof. now I can wrech ganons in super HD

 

[Divinokage]

I hope you are ready.

And brews sounds pretty interesting. =)

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Blake, I'm really gonna need to see a MM between you and linguini when he comes this july and kage in august. Once you beat them, you will officially be the ganon slayer.

Also, G. Vice, if you're reading this: do you have any tips/thoughts on a ganon/samus team? I know you're extremely experienced in that team and Ripple is going samus for FC. Any advice is appreciated.

Trail, what kind of brews are you thinking? Cuz I was actually planning on buying a case or two for all my guests that night lol.

 

[Ripple]

so you wish, so shall it be. I'm getting major practice with trail this week at SG

 

[Divinokage]

You cannot prepare from what's coming at you.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Blake come up this thursday. Eddie (yes, ****ing eddie!), Trail, Looshkin, and myself will be there, those are the four best ganons in the midwest (me only by default, but you get the picture).

 

[Ripple]

I think I work friday dude

 

[RaphaelRobo]

You guys need to stream that, I want to see Eddie play.

 

[Ripple]

I can't stream but I can record everything

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@Blake: so? play Thursday, take a 5 hour energy, drive back, pull an all nighter and go to work!

@Raph: I can do my best. My capture card only records video, not sound, but we can probably just use the computer mic to record our stupid conversations anyway.