Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RaphaelRobo]

We would've noticed when you started using a Sheik avatar.

I'll just have to get my Ganon to the point where I beat your Sheik so badly you switch back to Ganon.

 

[Divinokage]

Well if you can't overcome stuff with any character for that matter then it's not a problem of character but a problem of player. I mean I started using Falcon, Falco and Marth as secondaries for more than 7-8 months now and now I feel like I have much more control overall even with Ganon, like doing more complicated mix-ups to **** up my opponent... though even then I still feel like i can win vs any opponents I just have to punish much better... do better traps, etc.

Robo, does have a point.. even if you use Sheik, you'll NEVER defeat me!!

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, i think i'll still always have that control with ganon.

lol raphael, just keep coming to stuff.

it's not a matter of what i feel that i can't do with ganon, or feeling that sheik is easier. i honestly like her mechanics, how she works as a character, and her inherent abilities to control space in a similar manner to ganon, but a little bit better. i like her ability to gimp with a few strong reads, and her speed to cover options is admirable. i think that sheik has a lot of potential that i feel has been overlooked for a more passive way to play, and i feel like exploring that. and if you really don't like me for that then uhhhh deal with it *shrug*

 

[PseudoTurtle]

So, I got a simple question for all of you. Seeing as I am the only ganon main within a 300 mile radius (or so it seems) of where I live, it's pretty hard to come by much first-hand help.

My question is: how did you all practice? Typically what I do is go to battlefield on infinite time and practice all of the above:
1) wavelands (DJ and regular)
2) SHFFLing across the stage
3) wavedashing
4) all the ledge techs listed on tipman's ganon guide (RLD, ledgehop to uair, etc.)
5) JC grabs
6) Dash Dance
7) SH multi-airs
8) pretty much every "advanced" technique and everything related to the ganon metagame

Is there anything I should be doing or just drilling, drilling, and more drilling?
Thanks in advance everybody, I appreciate the help.

EDIT: @Blackchris: I'm sure I speak for everybody on the boards that we're only giving you a hard time over your choice of secondary, seeing as it is a notoriously tough matchup for ganon. No true hate.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I really don't like you for it. I hate you for it. etc

Sheik is a lot of fun to play, though. Mine is absolutely terrible (i.e. worse than my Kirby), and I still have a lot of fun playing her. As long as you still hang out in the Ganon boards, I'm cool with you playing Sheik.

I'm going to keep coming to stuff. I may have missed this last NCSU, but I'll be at the next one. Unless it's going to be in a garage, because I don't like being cold. Anyway, I'll be there. Until then, I'll continue working on my Ganon/Kirby techskill. Once I can short hop at will with Kirby (I'm almost there) I should be more in control of my hands, which should help me improve my tech skill. For some reason I lost the ability to ledgedash on the left side, though. I went from being equally consistent on both sides to sitting down at the beginning of last week and not being able to do it at all. I think I've gotten the hang of it again, but we'll see.

EDIT: I pretty much do what you do for practice, except I don't RLD or SH multi air as often as I should, because I forget they exist. I usually go to a random stage, and change stages after I've been practicing for a little while. That way I get practice on every stage. I'm also working on ledge cancelling, but I've only done it once, and that was by accident on Kirby.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I pretty much do what you do for practice, except I don't RLD or SH multi air as often as I should, because I forget they exist. I usually go to a random stage, and change stages after I've been practicing for a little while. That way I get practice on every stage. I'm also working on ledge cancelling, but I've only done it once, and that was by accident on Kirby.

You'd be surprised at how good RLD's are man. I actually just recently started to incorporate them into my game play with a huge amount of success. RLD to fair works wonders for me actually. Typically, they whiff an attack and get punished with a fair to the jaw. Soooooo satisfying. Although not used very often in higher level play for some reason. Maybe not as useful?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Turtle you live in IL, home of Eddie Howells himself. His legacy remains in the armor of Trail.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't think Kage knows how to RLD, although I could be wrong. I just know when the subject came up a few months ago he didn't know what it was.

Every time I've done one I've been impressed with how well it's turned out, which is why I know I need to work on them more than I do. I'll probably work on everything more when I'm at University, since I can go to my dorm and practice between classes.

Sveet, Eddie doesn't play any more, does he?

 

[Divinokage]

Maybe RLD is what I'll need as a new mix-up to beat Bam.. lol. Because seriously everything I try to do from the ledge I get hit.

 

[Geenareeno]

Don't worry Chris, I respect your decision. Also Kage, the only thing I can think of is falling off then dj fair and hit his knees. It's pretty much high high risk medium reward though.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Turtle you live in IL, home of Eddie Howells himself. His legacy remains in the armor of Trail.

I should rephrase: currently active ganon*

Don't you dare think I would even dream of forgetting about Eddie. He WAS the midwest smash scene since the very beginning of tournaments.

If only he was to make an appearance at the upcoming SMYM...

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Don't worry Chris, I respect your decision. Also Kage, the only thing I can think of is falling off then dj fair and hit his knees. It's pretty much high high risk medium reward though.

Not necessarily the only follow up from a RLD.

You could RLD, get back to the ledge to regain invincibility (this is usually when the opponent whiffs an attack), and then do either a ledge hop uair, ledge hop jab, or ledge hop grab (all are FREE hits due to ledge invicibility) to punish! Works decently well for me anyway lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

BlackChris I can teach you how to beat Kage it's really easy.

edit:

Kage, I still don't understand how you beat so many of the Sheiks. You make no sense whatsoever.

 

[-ACE-]

Kage, I still don't understand how you beat so many of the Sheiks. You make no sense whatsoever.

Lol so true. I think many sheiks fail at basics.

 

[G. Vice]

I have trouble because it's sheik that he's picking up.

I mean I have fox/falco/falcon alts but I'm not replacing ganon with them. It seems that you are playing sheik on a more serious level than ganon is all...that's the problem I have but hey you do what you gotta I really ain't tripping. I just hate sheik.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Trail still plays enough, and he probably has the best ganon in the midwest

 

[G. Vice]

Trail still plays enough, and he probably has the best ganon in the midwest

I really loved playing Trail. I played his ICs in singles and his Ganon in teams. Solid player.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Lol so true. I think many sheiks fail at basics.

Yeah most Sheiks are really bad.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

You need to go back to playing Kirby. I'll just have to beat your Sheik with my Kirby so you can see the light. All I need is a few decades in the hyperbolic time chamber, and I should be ready.

 

[Nakamaru]

Ok, i feel kinda dumb. I can't figure out what RLD is. I think it is reverse ledge drop?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

reverse ledgedash. done like a ledgedash, but you waveland back off the stage instead of toward the stage.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

RLD = reverse ledge dash, like chris said. Somewhat tricky to get the hang of, but once you got it, it's not too hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELImH5ySISA
^ Tipman does one at about 37 seconds in (watch closely, it happens fast) as an edgeguard. He used it to cover pretty much every option, really good choice on his part.

 

[Nujabes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc

 

[Geenareeno]

Rage cannot express how much that video does not belong here.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Trail still plays enough, and he probably has the best ganon in the midwest

Didnt know he was still active! thats good to know actually. Now all hes gotta do is register for SMYM

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

idk if hes going, but hes gonna be at a pre-smym smashfest friday

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Where at, do you know?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

al cheatos place

join the chicago-land melee facebook group

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Not a bad idea. Thanks sveet.

Also: what is ganons grab range for items (specifically turnips)? In my experience in the air its from about his head to his waist. That about true?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

it's huge.

like...massive.

like head to toes jab distance away massive.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

yea, figured it was. It's actually a lot easier than I previously thought to catch peach's turnips. And sveet, I just requested to join the group-- and wow I'm an idiot... I had no idea you were based in Illinois. I'm actually from chicago, and am gonna be there during most breaks (spring break for me is the 16th through the 23rd), I'd really like it if we could meet up and smash sometime!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well i am just starting my spring break now, if ur in town next weekend we can have smash o'clock.

your name is joe too?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

yessir. and ill be in town this friday, saturday, sunday, etc. so maybe I can catch you on one of these days? And bear with me, ive only been playing this game for about 4 months now, and my first tourney is this saturday. Beginner johns. But I hope to learn a ton from yall in the chicago scene.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh really? no wonder we haven't played yet! I swear the only player in the MW i havent played is Wake.

I'll be around this weekend, though im not sure if i'll be doing any smashing. Work johns

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Oops, sorry, not this weekend, the weekend of the 16th-23rd is when I have my week off, so if you would be able to smash anytime in between then, that would be pretty cool. I look forward to meeting one of my fellow ganons! haha

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Sveet is a Ganon secondary, right? So he's not really as cool as a full-blood Ganon.

Then again, he did try out my video game, so that makes up for it.

 

[G. Vice]

Sveet is a Ganon secondary, right? So he's not really as cool as a full-blood Ganon.

Then again, he did try out my video game, so that makes up for it.

He plays Fox and Sheik...so I'm not sure what to think of him at the moment.

He sat behind me once playing with someone while I played Kage and Dart though and seemed pretty cool, so I can't actively fuss about him besides who he plays mainly.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Didn't we play in the random character couch tournament? We were supposed to MM but never did

I play all characters. Fox is my best by far, but i enjoy strategies for all characters. Ganon is not one of the characters I have developed very well. Sheik/Falco/Marth are my 2nd tier of characters and Peach is kinda in a weird zone where I played her a lot but she isn't as good as my other characters. After that theres characters that I understand from playing against them a lot but not so much from experience. Ganon falls into that category.


I've played with LoOshKiN a lot for the last few years, and his ganon is pretty legit. Him and Mundungu taught me what I needed to know about the MUs

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I hope you play green Fox, otherwise it would ruin my image of you. Like how whenever I play Fox (Note that my Fox is absolutely terrible, so I only use it against my friends who I can beat with my Kirby) I always use Lavender Fox.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I play exclusively red fox these days. Green fox was my original color, but it is reserved for ckit and try-hard kels