Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Bl@ckChris]

at low percents, the opponent recovers in time to do things lol. that's usually pretty inconvenient overall.

 

[G. Vice]

roll away, bair oos, or wavedash away as you said. that's pretty much the best offensive position, unless you're playing against a character with a really good bair oos (sheik, spacies).

Wavedashing OOS is mad good. I've started doing that alot, and WD oos to reverse jab/ftilt is amazing.

Being able to pivot jabs with Ganon is so important.

 

[Tyranny]

OMFG I'm exactly the same way, rofl.

also good **** tyranny using blue ganondorf

also reverse up b oos is godliek, especially at high percents. ganon be so STICKY.

Hahahaha I feel the same way on the left side of the stage the right side feels so much more fluent. From now on every Ganon ditto i play I'll focus on getting them off the left side, that seems to be his bane lol

Blue is when I'm feeling ICY, red when I really feel like i need to wreck something, and purple when im feeling stylish Also Eikelmann did you see anything in particular i need to work on from those vids? A good critique would probably help me since im playing against some good people tomorrow.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

i wish you could come to ncsu, gvice.

@tyranny, i haven't watched them thoroughly. i'll check them out.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I just started watching your videos. Keep in mind I've only been playing for three months, so I can't give much advice.

Anyway, one thing I noticed very early on (I'm less than a minute in) is every time you miss with an aerial you perform a double jump and do another aerial. I'd suggest doing a waveland instead. By using up your second jump, he can hit you off stage and have an easier time edgeguarding you. Also, most of the time your second aerial didn't hit. A waveland would put you in a better position for fighting.

EDIT: At about 4 minutes in you upB onto the stage. He was close enough that an upB onto the stage wasn't going to work, and it was better to aim for the ledge. If you'd delayed a bit you would have seen him jump and could have timed your upB in order to guarantee a recovery due to him being in the air.

EDIT2: At the beginning of G2 you try to chain grab him. At low percents, if he DIs behind you all you need to do is turn around a grab, no movement. At higher percents when you have to move it's better to JC grab because it's faster than a running grab.

EDIT3: When platformdashing, do a double jump. It gets you to the platform faster. Ace told me to do it about a week ago, and I have to say, it's awesome.

EDIT4: As an edit to what I said above, even though your double jump second aerial too often, it's still a useful tactic, and you do use effectively more in G2, although there are also times when you use it without a good reason, leading to the problems I outlined above.

EDIT5: There's no sound on game 3, so I'm going to listen to the Cardcaptor Sakura soundtrack while I watch it.

EDIT6: About 50 seconds into G3 you could have airdodged up to the stage instead of using an UpB. That would have let you live.

EDIT7: You did more of the double jump stuff in game 3, and you got punished for it.

I know you said you need to work on landdashes, but you didn't mention anything about L-cancels. You need to become a lot more consistent with those. That's all I noticed.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

okay, so i just watched game one. can you use skype? it's easier via IM.

good eye, raph.

damn, 8 people viewing the thread. GANONDORF IS POPULAR.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

After watching a bit of your video, I would say something you should work on would be your tech chases. Ace has an excellent guide for tech chasing fast fallers, I would highly suggest you check it out (keep in mind you're being lectured by a hypocrite haha, tech chasing is one of my weak points).

Also, nice tech at 2:30, and a good overall ganon (loads better than mine). And Raph has some decent stuff to say as well.

By the way, to everybody on the thread (don't know if this is important, but whatever), I didn't formally introduce myself. My name is Joe and I'm gonna be representing ganon in the midwest this upcoming SMYM. Wish me luck!

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

YESSSSSS this is so great. good ****, joe. glad to have another ganondorf player in NA.

don't give up!

 

[PseudoTurtle]

One more thing Tyranny: fast fall EVERYTHING, unless of course you have a specific reason not to. I used to have problems with it before, but it increased my speed beyond belief.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I've finished my post, so experienced Ganons should correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Also, like Joe said, fast fall everything. Unless you're off stage, you have no reason not to fast fall. All I can do is emphasize what he said.

 

[Tyranny]

Hell yeah thanks for all the useful information.
@RaphaelRobo Yeah i do the aerial DJ aerial way too much here but i have started implementing the aerial>DJ>waveland it's pretty satisfying to mindgame them into a tilt or a Fair. My CG'ing is complete **** i get to the second grab and just end up going for the tech chase after the D-throw, i need to find those cg'ing charts Magus posted a while back (Unless they're in Ace's thread). I think refreshing my memory on they're DI options will help me out a ton. Annnnnnnnd the L-cancels..... I tend to be off and on with these. When I'm in super focus mode i can L-cancel without even thinking about it but after a couple hours of smash (incoming fatigue johns) my brain becomes **** and I half-*** my cancels. I just need to focus longer/harder/better lol

@PseudoTurtle Yup they're bad haha the best thing i can do is a retreating stomp if they roll back towards me, then that usually leads to something else. But if they just DI and tech-roll away i feel so limited by the slow movement of Ganon. Is there some sort of indicator on Ganon that tells me i can start his Dash animation after the D-throw? I feel like that's a major part of my bad tech chasing, the initial dash is late and leaves me at frame disadvantage.
Thanks man i've been working on my stage techs recently, they're reeeaaallly satisfying.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

tyranny check out my PM lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@PseudoTurtle Yup they're bad haha the best thing i can do is a retreating stomp if they roll back towards me, then that usually leads to something else. But if they just DI and tech-roll away i feel so limited by the slow movement of Ganon. Is there some sort of indicator on Ganon that tells me i can start his Dash animation after the D-throw? I feel like that's a major part of my bad tech chasing, the initial dash is late and leaves me at frame disadvantage.
Thanks man i've been working on my stage techs recently, they're reeeaaallly satisfying.

Im telling you man, check ace's thread on tech chasing fast fallers, it helped me beyond belief. Basically all you need to know is down-b, side-b, and d-smash are perfect tech chasers haha

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Down-b? Don't you mean dair? lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Down-b? Don't you mean dair? lol

Haha well maybe im wrong, but on ace's tech chase thread, it lists down-b as a tech chase that covers 3/4 tech options. I've actually used it against falcon multiple times and can confirm that it works pretty decently.

But I would love to hear a better option if you have one lol, the more info I can get to improve my game, the better.

 

[-ACE-]

Those are all good techchasing choices for option coverage. I use dsmash and side-b a decent amount as mixups vs people whose play styles I haven't quite figured out yet (if you haven't had a chance to observe their tech patterns). Once you get into your opponent's head you want to use more dair and fair to maximize punishment. They can cc the side-b and punish, and if they hold down + away the dsmash only hits once and doesn't lead to anything.

If you dthrow your opponent close to the edge, every time you predict a roll toward the edge you MUST fair. This means a KO if you're good at edgeguarding, so this is the option you want to lead him to believe is the safest, preferably. If you predict a roll toward the center of the stage, dair is brutal because of raw damage and everything it leads into. If you are less confident in your read, you can throw in a side-b to cover no tech, tech in place, or roll towards the center of the stage. Down-b similarly covers 3 options, but is better at high% to get KO's/easy edgeguards since it obviously doesn't combo into anything.

 

[-ACE-]

Its good to maximize your on stage punishment game so that your opponent is afraid to roll towards the center of the stage. If you can condition them to consider rolling to the edge as the safest option you can get some quick KO's (fair them offstage or bair if you don't have time).

Onstage punishment options from dair:

Low%:
dair to grab, then dthrow to techchase again or uthrow onto platform.
dair to side-b if you can catch them in-air, better with platforms around as they can be launched out of combo range if they di behind you.

Med%:
dair to dair, then techchase
dair to fair/bair
dair to uair/nair into platform
dair to charged usmash if they don't di (~60-65%)

High%
dair to fair (uair if you can't reach)
down-b

 

[Jonas]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14021915&postcount=22122

Is this why I always feel like I have to regrab the edge before I can ledgedash with Ganon?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I plan on doing some research into that one i get some free time. I'm going to make a list of characters that having changing properties like that

 

[Nujabes]

Should the Ganon Boards make a fb group? It would be alot easier to analyze and give advise, have docs and fb group chat

 

[-ACE-]

I usually ledgedash right away if its safe. If they are ready I just stall a bit until I have a safe opportunity to get up. RLD can provoke them to commit to something if dj'ing doesn't.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I'm down for that Nujabes. Facebook is too good.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I don't use facebook, so whether or not you make a group doesn't matter to me. Just make sure there's a lot of talk about how purple ganon is superior to the other colors.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

First off: thanks, ace, for the info. Useful as always! What im getting out of it is that down smash and side-b are great when you aren't confident about predicting tech patterns, whereas dair and fair are probably your overall best options, depending on the situation (correct me if im wrong here)?

Second: nujabes, a fb group would be epic and I would totally be down for something like that!

Thanks again

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

So I just noticed that the majority of Ganondorf users are of Slavic descent.

Kage, Renth and I all have a Slavic background.

Славаяааааа

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'd have to check with my mother, but I believe my great grandparents were Slavic.

 

[-ACE-]

First off: thanks, ace, for the info. Useful as always! What im getting out of it is that down smash and side-b are great when you aren't confident about predicting tech patterns, whereas dair and fair are probably your overall best options, depending on the situation (correct me if im wrong here)?

Second: nujabes, a fb group would be epic and I would totally be down for something like that!

Thanks again

Pretty much. Usually most people won't think about how to escape side-b and especially dsmash the first time you use it, so they are definitely good mixups. With dair and fair you get more guaranteed punishment, as long as you guess his tech right (you can sometimes cover more than 1 option off pure reaction, but unfortunately a lot of ganon's techchasing is pure prediction)

Edit: also, how to properly use side-b when techchasing: you must be very, very close to your opponent for it to cover techroll away (it'll always cover tech in place and no tech easily), so you may have to walk for a split second after you dthrow them. Hit B EXACTLY when they touch the ground. If they miss the tech (doesn't happen often but whatever) you will catch them in-air so they can't cc (they bounce when they miss the tech).

 

[G. Vice]

I'm of asian descent.

Also white.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya but I also have the people of the desert inside my blood which is why that's my Ganon blood. lol

 

[-ACE-]

Lol, I'm 25% Portuguese, 33% Irish, 25% Scottish, 17% English/Welsh

 

[G. Vice]

Ya but I also have the people of the desert inside my blood which is why that's my Ganon blood. lol

No wonder lol.

I suppose the Triforce of Power is a family heirloom of yours then huh?

 

[Divinokage]

That's why all my opponents are mere rocks in my way!

 

[Nujabes]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/103525936437822/?notif_t=group_r2j

Any ideas for a better name?
and description?

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm.. it doesn't show me anything.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm so not joining a Facebook Ganon group, lmao. I despise fb chat and don't see why everything can't be discussed here

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Does everyone have Skype? We could make a group chat there.

I don't think we need to talk about things anywhere else, though. This topic seems to do a good job of covering everything Ganon-related. If we have a facebook group or a skype group then that just means Ganons who don't use either facebook or skype could be missing out on important information.

EDIT: If the chats were purely social, though, then it would work well. I just don't like the idea of Ganon players missing out on Ganon info due to not using a website or a program.

 

[Divinokage]

My skype is divinokage if you want to add me.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I think we should all find some free MMO and have group bonding experiences. It's a great way for us to get to know each other, and afterwards think "Wow, I wasted a whole day."

Also, I added you.

 

[Nujabes]

my local melee scene was on boards but we got on fb... every one toalks alot more and i think cause of the fb group we are more active

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

my skype is "imooney3656".

WE SHOULD ALL GET ON SKYPE TOGETHER AND FORM A GANONDORF CHAT ROOM. :>