Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Superspright]

I'll address the second part of this first. CF's moonwalk isn't ridiculously good, it's just cool and decent.

Now onto the main part. The falcon boards have tutorials on moonwalking, but basically you initiate a dash, then do a half circle motion downwards to the opposite direction without going through the center of the control stick. If you did it properly, your character will move backwards while in their dash animation. However, one caveat with Ganon is that you can only achieve real distance if you already have some momentum, for example after a perfect waveland. The only use I know for ganon doing it is: perfect waveland ---> moonwalk ---> edgehog, which looks cool, but isn't amazingly good.

Basically it isn't that useful with Ganon.

Perfectwaveland to moonwalk is useful for stalling on platforms too. Instead of just flying off, you can start a moonwalk and give yourself a little more time, or stop in place. CF's perfect waveland to moonwalk makes him soar like an eagle. It's useful. No one has really cared to use it. It's not like it's super easy to do all that at once, and the reason to use it isn't always apparent. But as an edge-guarding tool to go out farther and threaten an opponent--it is invaluable. As an approach? Probably less so, unless you plan to crossover with a bair then go for a grab or something.

And if you do a perfect ledge-dash to moonwalk you can cover some serious distance if you do your moonwalk right; a little over half of battlefield from the ledge if you do it all perfectly.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I learned a few things at the tournament.

1. It ****ing sucks getting cheered against. It really does affect your play a little bit, getting nervous and ****. I couldn't handle it very well.

2. You have to be REALLY patient vs top players, you definitely cannot throw out random moves.. you have to psyche them out with DDs and wavelands around them and then you can maybe start hitting them if they decide to attack. I mean if not, there's simply no way to approach effectively. Ganon is a counter-attack character. I didn't really learn anything new as to make my style even better... But I did learn that you HAVE to adapt to your opponent and change up your own style. For example, S2J destroyed me constantly, I really didn't know what to do because it felt like I didn't play vs a Falcon, it was something else.. idk it was weird. But I mean vs him I didn't really change it up so i got *****. But eventually when I played more people I learned that sometimes it's really good to keep the pressure up with constant attacks since I know some people cannot deal with it as good as others but at the same time there's some people that are really good at dealing with campy styles.

You have to know the player's style very quickly and change it up, if not you lose, simple as that.

 

[Superspright]

You gotta get into a mindset of who gives a ****? This is for me. No one else. The whole Ganon board was cheering for ya. Shoulda kept that in mind. Mental blocks are hard to overcome though--I think everyone except for the very best have them. That's why they aren't the very best.

Maybe you should take a shot of gin before a tournament so you get more relaxed and more patient lol. Not like you need indomitable tech skill to win.

 

[Divinokage]

You gotta get into a mindset of who gives a ****? This is for me. No one else. The whole Ganon board was cheering for ya. Shoulda kept that in mind. Mental blocks are hard to overcome though--I think everyone except for the very best have them. That's why they aren't the very best.

Maybe you should take a shot of gin before a tournament so you get more relaxed and more patient lol. Not like you need indomitable tech skill to win.

It's a lot easier said than done, try to do that when so many WC players scream close to your ears and watching. lol. And well, I was also mad stressed out at Genesis 2, i felt the stress inside my shoulders and stomach mainly.. it remained the entire tournament. No matter what I've thought, it never went away. I mean I think that's good because when I played generally I was really focused and on point but ya at some point that focus just isn't there anymore, especially on day 3 at a tournament. Facing top players constantly wears you down like no tomorrow. And then eventually my decision making was questionable. Oh well, it's not really a john it's just the way I felt. I got beat by PP and SS in brackets straight up. I wish I could of done better but I still have work to do.. and in brackets and even round 3 pools... all you will face are bad matchups. So you better be ****ING good with those bad matchups all the time.. it's an uphill battle.

Though saying I have work to do.. I'm not even sure what I should work at. I love fighting Falcon, but apparently I got my *** kicked by them lol. Umm.. I guess it's simply more about adapting and being much quicker about it, I think i learned that was a big weakness in me. Well.. that just means I have to go to more tournaments and face LOTS of different people once again. I'm not really disappointed at my performance I think i did ok in general. But ya.. ****s tough.. lol.

 

[G. Vice]

Ganon definitely requires lots of patience to address all the match ups in the game. If you rush with him even once, it can get you destroyed. From there frustration ensues, making the remaining piece of the match and subsequent matches more difficult.

That being said. All frustrations and difficulties aside. Playing Ganon, even knowing the challenges that it poses due to his very nature as a character, is very satisfying. You know that you have to outplay your opponents to even hang. And getting that victory or even almost getting that victory is something to take pride in. And despite whether or not people acknowledge it verbally, they respect us Ganon mains. Sure we could play Fox too, or pick up Sheik. But we stick to our guns, because we're one of a kind mentally. At least that's how I like to view it.

So props Kage, and good stuff vs some of the best smashers in the nation. I enjoyed that first match of yours vs Mango's fox. Also, you should have beaten Eggz easily imo, you're definitely better.

 

[Divinokage]

Ya I could've of, I just didn't make the proper decisions at that time. Everyone needs to realize that to make the good decisions all the time is ridiculously hard with Ganon, which is why it's an uphill battle. I mean I had 5 foxes in Round 3 pools, how many times can I really adapt and win? lol. It's so hard, haha. But i mean I'm not really feeling down or anything atm, I was just reflecting on my experience. No worries guys, I'm still playing Ganon. =P I'm actually feeling pretty nice.. except for my loss vs SS, that pissed me off quite a bit but oh well.

But I mean, ya I don't like people johning like that though.. like Mango could've won vs Armada of course he could.. but it didn't happen. So I mean everyone needs to stfu about things like that, a match is a match and lots of different things can happen. It's in no one's control. Having control of an outcome is just an illusion, anything can happen but all you can do is try your best.

 

[Geenareeno]

Dude SS is really, really good. Beating him with Ganon would be a huge feat. Like he's ****ing SilentSpectre.

 

[Divinokage]

I know but it was close, that's why I'm pissed he didn't **** me. =/ It's when I have clutch matches, like last hit, last stock.. and I fail.. It's just mad frustrating to lose a game like that.

 

[Superspright]

Also I just wanted to add that you can wavedash to moonwalk--if you do it perfectly you can get comparable momentum to a perfect waveland moonwalk. You have to get a long wavedash, then start the moonwalk right as it ends--but it has to be nigh perfect. As a movement option it's not bad. I like to space bairs on people a lot. Fair never feels as safe to me.

 

[Walt]

West Coast gets mad hype and loves to yell. And Kage, we even do that to our own players at locals. You were just getting a Cali welcome.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Oh yeah walt, i did play you then. next time i'll play your ganon for usre

Atma went sheik all the way. it's funny because he ***** me in the matches he won while i ***** him in the one match i beat him.

 

[G. Vice]

Oh yeah walt, i did play you then. next time i'll play your ganon for usre

Atma went sheik all the way. it's funny because he ***** me in the matches he won while i ***** him in the one match i beat him.

The man is amazing. But props to getting a game off him, let alone ****** him a match. He beat me pretty solid. I'm no good at the Sheik matchup, I need to play a good sheik and learn it a little better. Our match is up on youtube, you guys should critique it for me.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

i just watched most of your set.

you tend to make unnecessary options (like myself) against darkatma's sheik.

for example, up-smash under his sheik only helped you once throughout the entire set, while a simple f-air or up-air would've sent his sheik out of the stage, setting up an easy edgeguard. also, you kept on trying to reverse up-air edgeguard his sheik when you could have used the most effective tactic (normal get-up from the ledge). i bet that you could've done much better if you took these advice against sheiks.

i've noticed that he ***** you especially when he short-hop f-airs you while you are trying to use f-tilts and down-tilts. next time, use up-angled f-tilt or short hop up-air when you expect him to short-hop towards you.

on another note, it seems like darkatma doesn't like small stages like FoD. this was the stage that we both did the best against him (this is the stage i beat him in my pool match).

thanks for the compliment btw. i should take my own advice also (my set with atma was recorded i think)

 

[G. Vice]

I think you could classify most of my mistakes as "unnecessary options." Because it's those things that get me destroyed. Actually I hate FoD and I was surprised that it went as well for me as it did.

Thanks for the tips, I'll have to try them. I look forward to seeing your set with him.

 

[nicaboy]

i just watched most of your set.

you tend to make unnecessary options (like myself) against darkatma's sheik.

for example, up-smash under his sheik only helped you once throughout the entire set, while a simple f-air or up-air would've sent his sheik out of the stage, setting up an easy edgeguard. also, you kept on trying to reverse up-air edgeguard his sheik when you could have used the most effective tactic (normal get-up from the ledge). i bet that you could've done much better if you took these advice against sheiks.

i've noticed that he ***** you especially when he short-hop f-airs you while you are trying to use f-tilts and down-tilts. next time, use up-angled f-tilt or short hop up-air when you expect him to short-hop towards you.

on another note, it seems like darkatma doesn't like small stages like FoD. this was the stage that we both did the best against him (this is the stage i beat him in my pool match).

thanks for the compliment btw. i should take my own advice also (my set with atma was recorded i think)

You have gotten alot better from the last time we played for sure props to your performance man. Gonna watch your vids. You beat wobbles too man good ****.

 

[Eggz]

ill never lose to ganon

cept those times kage beats me

 

[Divinokage]

ill never lose to ganon

cept those times kage beats me

You beat me this time, next time you never know. Warrior status yo! You can't control the outcome.

 

[DannyG]

Kage I just watched the pool matches of you vs. eggz and mango......super close with eggz but mango seemed to get away from you in the second game.....do you want to analyse what happened so everyone can learn from your experiences? Also have you seen the games? http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiBW#p/u/5/D0gKOpyRpU8 There's the link.

 

[Divinokage]

Kage I just watched the pool matches of you vs. eggz and mango......super close with eggz but mango seemed to get away from you in the second game.....do you want to analyse what happened so everyone can learn from your experiences? Also have you seen the games? http://www.youtube.com/user/OkamiBW#p/u/5/D0gKOpyRpU8 There's the link.

I havent seen everything yet since I actually played smash yesterday and im working.. and still kinda exhausted but I'll try to do this tonight.. and one thing i know is that taking Fox to FoD with Ganon is not very good. I don't know why I did that when i knew it before... I guess it's because I beat him on that stage vs Falco.. lol.

 

[DannyG]

I was about to say mad props to you for being comfortable with fountain. It's the worst neutral stage for me by a long shot, and I agree with you that taking a fox there was a bad idea. In general I think tall characters (ganon, cf, maybe even marth) get wrecked because of the platforms changing height, while characters like spacies or peach can seriously abuse fall through aerials and smash attacks from the platform.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

thanks nica!!! for some reason, i really miss playing with you and your bro even though we only played for a day.

 

[numberonenacho]

Yo Bizarro Flame is mad legit. MM WHEN I SEE YOU AGAIN DUDE I HATE YOU LOLL <3

~Vish

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

For sure =p

 

[Renth]

For sure =p

Bizz, I thought you had fallen off the planet I don't think i've even heard your name in the past year congratulations man. Glad to see you wrecking ****

 

[spider_sense]

I figured out some crazy stuff recently with Ganon, can't wait to get some vid recorded to show off. I'm turning into the modern day Tipman. lol

 

[DannyG]

I figured out some crazy stuff recently with Ganon, can't wait to get some vid recorded to show off. I'm turning into the modern day Tipman. lol

Can't wait for those crazy things to horribly four stock my ***!!!!

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

thanks Renth, i've actually become more active in tournaments in the past year

I figured out some crazy stuff recently with Ganon, can't wait to get some vid recorded to show off. I'm turning into the modern day Tipman. lol

it better not be something regarding the reverse up-air, because i found out and incorporated something CRAZY also. (kage has already witnessed it in genesis).

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Jason, you have a combo video? News to me.

Also, we didn't play enough.

Add me on Facebook!

facebook.com/gzimmer9

 

[spider_sense]

thanks Renth, i've actually become more active in tournaments in the past year



it better not be something regarding the reverse up-air, because i found out and incorporated something CRAZY also. (kage has already witnessed it in genesis).

I have a pretty practical use of the uair in mind, never really tried it though. But I wasn't talking about that. lol

 

[spider_sense]

Btw (sorry for the double post guys) I was thinking that a Ganon compilation video featuring everybody showcasing their styles. It'll feature Kage, Linguini, Tipman, Me, G.Vice, Bizzaro, Ace, BlackChris, Renth, and other notable Ganon mains out there. Sound like a good idea?

I was thinking about using music like this. Something about unity and beasting on other people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izp9XnkgoNQ

 

[Renth]

If I can get someone to record with me i'd enjoy that but i have endless youtube vids so feel free to pick them apart.

add rockcrock to your list.

edit music : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PRT_4beFA

 

[Walt]

Currently I've been figuring out specific spots where the first hit of nair can be used deal with Falco. Nothing new with uair for me though.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'm down. once i get paid from this internship, i plan to buy a recording setup. then you can have newer stuff.

although for a compilation vid of that caliber, i already have two recorded combos. dair-> dair -> cockblast, and fair ganon spike lol.

i use first hit nair as shieldpressure like falcon does. it works lol. you can also nair over lasers like you can fair over them. doesn't hit as hard, but for the length you get, and for as quickly as his body switches to the new position, and as fast as that first hitbox comes out, it can still start a decent techchase if they're at high enough percent.

 

[G. Vice]

SpiderSense, if you do take over and pull the footage together from the Ganon's that'd be awesome.

But as far as songs go, you should use this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCOg8ZzUfg

 

[Walt]

I recommend this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxBGr5umbe0

 

[DannyG]

I heartily agree with G.Vice. That song is kinda perfect.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

a combo vid of us ganons would be PERFECT

i already have some combo clips, so if you want to rip it off youtube, then i can upload however much i have now on youtube (i will most likely upload it as a private video since i haven't released my combo video yet).

 

[spider_sense]

Lol nothing is finalized yet, but I'll see if I can cultivate something. These are pretty legit songs, I'll see if I can rip the vids and work on it, but I'm going to edit some nice software editing program (like Adobe) so I can make a really nice compilation vid.

 

[Ulti]

Tomorrow I will probably be playing with competitive players for the first time in almost two years, so I've been practicing a bit to get the rust off and have found a few things that may already be known to some of you but I didn't know about them and I think they have some (circumstantial) uses

1. I think most Ganon players know how good back-jump is. Not only does it make platform dashing easier, but it also "snaps" Ganon to low platforms at/near the apex of his jump with little to no descent and very little lag. What I found out today is that you can do a poor man's version of this without having to do a back jump by air-dodging down as you pass through the platform. Basically you platform dash downwards (so you don't slide). Seems like it's a slightly faster way of navigating the low platforms on YS, PS, and BF. Not so useful on DL64 due to higher platforms. Haven't tried FoD.

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZNQMhCPKmE
Video that shows that you cancel a dash with the teetering animation and then use this to edge-hog or do a quick edge-guard. Might be useful with Ganon since roll --> wavedash edge-hog may not always be the fastest way of grabbing the edge. Can do this on platforms too, although it is less useful here it does allow for good practice.

3. Another thing I don't see used often is dash--> dash cancel jab. If your controller is calibrated so that you can CC jab by holding down-back on the control stick you can do these very quickly. I don't see a whole lot of use for this, but it could be a good alternative to dash attack in some circumstances. Might be safer in some MUs.

 

[DannyG]

1. I think most Ganon players know how good back-jump is. Not only does it make platform dashing easier, but it also "snaps" Ganon to low platforms at/near the apex of his jump with little to no descent and very little lag. What I found out today is that you can do a poor man's version of this without having to do a back jump by air-dodging down as you pass through the platform. Basically you platform dash downwards (so you don't slide). Seems like it's a slightly faster way of navigating the low platforms on YS, PS, and BF. Not so useful on DL64 due to higher platforms. Haven't tried FoD.

This is actually what most people do isn't it? the wavedash downwards? Spacies do this all the time when jumping out of shine to land on platforms quickly. I think it's worlds more effective than simply backjumping, since you can also switch to a straight waveland if you'd rather. Also it's probably faster.