How to Deal with Specific Moves #8 & #9: Metaknight's Shuttle Loop + Diddy's Bananas

[Denzi]

IAP is risky when nades are about.

Just jump a little higher than usual and Phantasm over them, Snake's tall enough so that you'll still hit him.

If you're holding the grenade, you can run up to him and shield/roll/spotdodge the explosion.

Lasers are probably the best overall option.

I think the biggest problem with the nades is when Snake decides to set one right on the edge. You can't Phantasm onto the stage, and if the Snakke times it right, it can hit you before you grab the ledge. I'm not really sure what to do about this one. (seccond jump gone)

 

[Vlade]

Maybe you'd have to laser it then firebird. Although that presents a problem since firebird sucks.

Try to cover as many uses for the grenades as possible, and keep the contributions coming!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I think the biggest problem with the nades is when Snake decides to set one right on the edge. You can't Phantasm onto the stage, and if the Snakke times it right, it can hit you before you grab the ledge. I'm not really sure what to do about this one. (seccond jump gone)

My solution that I can think of when snake throws a grenade into your phantasm as you are going for the ledge is simply DI the heck towards the stage and from there you are a bit higher in the air now and closer, then you just have to play the recovery mindgame correctly on your way back to the stage again.

But, yeah, if you see a grenade on the ground or at the very least see one for snake and you are at a reasonable distance just camp with your lasers and reflector till you he gets smart to stop trying to take grenades out and crouchs. That at least stops the grenades and resets the game back up again.

When dealing with shield dropped grenades that snake hopes you will hit when you are attack him with jabs and stuff I do not really know how to avoid. At least you both blow up.

 

[pure_awesome]

Various spots in Falco's Phantasm don't have a hurtbox.

Meaning Falco can Phantasm through grenades at various distances and not get hurt. So that kind of solves Denzi's problem. Unless you're really far, in which case you'd have to go for the ledge anyway. Timing the nade that well is next to impossible (seriously, try it), and it's not even that much percent. You can also use these deadspots to pressure Snakes that like to shield-drop nades.

Why you would, I have no idea. If Snake wants to play with nades against Falco, he's not very smart.I'm surprised Falcos are having trouble with Snakes nades. We outcamp Snake so hard, it's hysterical. Plus, we've got the only reflector in the game that can consistently, safely, reflect nades.


On a side note, glide tossing nades as an approach is completely useless and don't do it. If you want to use it as a movement option, go nuts, but you've got better options.

 

[Vlade]

Sometimes the grenades explode when they come into contact with the reflector. So it is not always the best option. Personally I prefer to SHDL if snake is grenade camping.

 

[Teran]

If you want to use it as a movement option, go nuts, but you've got better options.

It's like a pseudo wavedash, so you can do a surprise attack out of it from startling range. It's not as reliable as a nanner setup, but I've always liked the mobility gained from Falco's glide toss, it's friggin huge.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

if snake uses grenades i expect they cook em (drop and repick then throw so they explode in your face when it reaches you) thus making shine not a viable option as the explosion can still reach you.

i normally just shield/spotdodge it and then aproach with a reflector as it reflects any recently thrown projectiles in his face and it might force him to shield thus making him drop his grenade, again making it explode in his face. it can also cause him to trip and it explodes while he lies down. in either way you're close and can pop a AAAshine combo

 

[Teran]

Usually SHDL stops them from cooking, as they lack the time to drop and pick up in my experience, so they resort to throwing or just limiting nade use and crawling up to you. Snake's nades aren't his biggest asset against Falco though. I find his amazing crawl and beastly tilts, and annoying jab to be the problem.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

This is seriously the best thread on the falco boards.

I don't have much to say about the grenades besides reflect them if he's throwing them at you, and just observe his patterns with his grenades and be careful.

I vote either Snake's f-tilt next or metaknight's dsmash. or warios bite

 

[M@v]

Although its not as effective as it is with fox, you can shoot the grenades. Since foxs blaster shoots much faster this usually a better option for him than falco, but falco can still interrupt snakes granade camping by making some blow up in his face.

 

[pure_awesome]

if snake uses grenades i expect they cook em (drop and repick then throw so they explode in your face when it reaches you) thus making shine not a viable option as the explosion can still reach you.

Nope. Everyone else's Shine, yes. Falco kicks his Shine out, so no.

 

[Mikey7]

Instead of dealing with them, just prevent them with repeated grounded lasers.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well I'm glad other people think it's a good idea...

I guess I should be thankful.​

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nope. Everyone else's Shine, yes. Falco kicks his Shine out, so no.

afraid that it would require excellent timing to hit the grenade at the end else the range will almost certainly reach you, not worth the risk. ofcourse im assuming you are approaching as standing still reflecting grenades wont bring any good

 

[Teran]

I've never had a problem with SHDL to immediate reflector when he CHUCKS nades. Then again, maybe I play stupid Snakes....

 

[Vlade]

This is seriously the best thread on the falco boards.

I don't have much to say about the grenades besides reflect them if he's throwing them at you, and just observe his patterns with his grenades and be careful.

I vote either Snake's f-tilt next or metaknight's dsmash. or warios bite

I'm glad to hear that. ^_^

We'll probably do Snake's Ftilt next, since while we're at it we may as well cover another one of his moves. I would like to keep this discussion going for longer, then when I think we've got a good grasp on 'how to deal with snake's grenades' we'll move on.

 

[Mith_]

What about when he walks up to you then drops them in front of you? : Phantasm

I just answered my own question >.>

 

[Orion*]

Instead of dealing with them, just prevent them with repeated grounded lasers.

we think alike XD

 

[Tommy_G]

I just sit back and laser as he throws them...on a side note:


The falco boards now has an IRC chat channel! (credit to Vlade for idea)

Here are the instructions to getting started:

1. Download mIRC (Here) http://www.mirc.com/get.html

2. Create your username, then close the box asking you to join a server. Oh and make sure you use the trial version because it actually never runs out ^_^

3. In the blank white box down the bottom type in "/s irc.globalgamers.net" (without quotes)

4. Once it's finished with all the writing on the screen, a box should come up. Type #smashfalco.

5. You're Done!

 

[superglucose]

I treat Snake's grenades the same way I treat frags in Halo: move towards the ******* that threw 'em. Whatever you do: do NOT pick them up! That's a surefire way of getting them to blow up in your face. If you see him pulling a grenade, often your shl will hit him, causing him to stun and drop the nade. It's all sorts of fun! Watch for nade counters... but don't worry about them so much in the air. It sucks of the nade blows both of you up, but that's life. What's more important is to make sure that you're not dash attacking his grenade while he sits behind his shield all comfy cozy, while you're putting out the blaze on your tail feathers.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

if snake uses grenades i expect they cook em (drop and repick then throw so they explode in your face when it reaches you) thus making shine not a viable option as the explosion can still reach you.

i normally just shield/spotdodge it and then aproach with a reflector as it reflects any recently thrown projectiles in his face and it might force him to shield thus making him drop his grenade, again making it explode in his face. it can also cause him to trip and it explodes while he lies down. in either way you're close and can pop a AAAshine combo

and SHDL is the conclusion then i guess

 

[Phantom7]

I would say reflector while it's still in the air, since Falco's reflector has really good distance. I would get pretty close to him while he's doing it, though, to give Snake less time to think about shielding.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I would say reflector while it's still in the air, since Falco's reflector has really good distance. I would get pretty close to him while he's doing it, though, to give Snake less time to think about shielding.

yes when close you can use shine as aproach, like mentioned in the quoted post above

 

[superglucose]

afraid that it would require excellent timing to hit the grenade

No, not at all. In fact, it's pretty easy to time your shine into a grenade at the end of your shine if it's tossed via the B move. Now, you might say, "he's dropping his nades and now they move faster!" Not against us, as by the time he drops the nade and picks it up there are two lasers that have hit him in the face. Falco really limits Snake's offensive nade options via reflector and lasers.

 

[pure_awesome]

afraid that it would require excellent timing to hit the grenade at the end else the range will almost certainly reach you, not worth the risk. ofcourse im assuming you are approaching as standing still reflecting grenades wont bring any good

No offense, but have you tried it? Safely reflecting Snake's nades is hilariously simple. It requires exceptional timing on Snake's part to get it to explode just as it reaches your Shine, and even then the range of the Shine is much more than the range of the nades' explosion, so it wouldn't matter. Essentially, if Snake wants to cook it to explode just as it hits your Shine, then he has to cook it to explode before it's hitbox will reach you. Anything longer and it's just going to bounce further from you when it's reflected.

It requires very simple timing to reflect the nades from a safe distance, since it jumps out so quickly and then just kind of hangs there for a good bite of time.

Besides, if Snake is going to try to cook every single nade perfectly to explode on your Shine, he's going to get a faceful of laser.

Falco's long range game > Snake's long range game.


I'm also finding myself extremely skeptical of using Shine as an approach when it's so laggy. If he doesn't trip or get blown up randomly by a nade (and why is Snake using nades this close?), mortarslide seems like a guaranteed follow-up, possibly even a hyphen smash.

There's also the question of why you're even approaching Snake in the first place. Assuming you aren't down a stock with one minute to go, you should be forcing Snake to approach you.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No offense, but have you tried it? Safely reflecting Snake's nades is hilariously simple. It requires exceptional timing on Snake's part to get it to explode just as it reaches your Shine, and even then the range of the Shine is much more than the range of the nades' explosion, so it wouldn't matter. Essentially, if Snake wants to cook it to explode just as it hits your Shine, then he has to cook it to explode before it's hitbox will reach you. Anything longer and it's just going to bounce further from you when it's reflected.

It requires very simple timing to reflect the nades from a safe distance, since it jumps out so quickly and then just kind of hangs there for a good bite of time.

Besides, if Snake is going to try to cook every single nade perfectly to explode on your Shine, he's going to get a faceful of laser.

Falco's long range game > Snake's long range game.


I'm also finding myself extremely skeptical of using Shine as an approach when it's so laggy. If he doesn't trip or get blown up randomly by a nade (and why is Snake using nades this close?), mortarslide seems like a guaranteed follow-up, possibly even a hyphen smash.

There's also the question of why you're even approaching Snake in the first place. Assuming you aren't down a stock with one minute to go, you should be forcing Snake to approach you.

might just be my luck but the grenade throws always end extremely unfortunate for me, thus my response.

and yes, i agree let snake find you if you're going for a real win.

though approaching with shine still seems like a solid option for me, landing lag never been a real problem and you admitted earlier in your post that it kicks out pretty fast

 

[AvoiD]

Reflect his Nades, he probaly will expect it though. So mix it up. Glide Tossing comes in handy as well, which you could follow-up with a attack, or get the nade, run up and Shield right by the Snake.

His lasers also beat it, so if you want to take the chance, try to fire at it. Not much else I can give. :x

 

[Tommy_G]

Change of plans for the chat room because I'm sick of missing messages because of no sound alerts.

http://xat.com/chat/room/48824743/?p=0&ss=6

This is our new chat room. Great thing about it is no downloading anything You don't even have to register. Someone verify that it works plz

 

[Vlade]

Any more contributions?

If not I shall update. Next one will be snake's ftilt.

 

[Mikey7]

Is Snake's ftilt really necessary? I mean if someone can't deal with that by now...............

 

[Vlade]

Then what do you suggest?

 

[pure_awesome]

I'd like to hear people's suggestions for dealing with Wario's Bite, Oli's grabs, or the obvious one is the Whorenado. There's not too many specific moves that give Falco trouble.

I can't see much discussion going on with Snake's Ftilt. Really, just stay the heck away from Snake. If you're near him, he's going to Ftilt. Don't jump into the ****.

Also, Vlade on Game and Watches Bair, I suggest putting "with IAP" after "Shield the whole thing, then follow up", since I think a perfectly spaced turtle can only be punished by IAP, no? I don't know alot about Game and Watch, so you'll forgive me if I'm wrong.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

i dont really have problems with any specific abilities, ofcourse there are abilities that devestate but theyre all avoidable.

mach tornado should be a good one though.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Friendly advice - do moves that a character uses all the time. Good examples are MK's Tornado, Peach's Dair, Zelda's Up Smash, Samus' Zair...the list goes on

Basically, imo, you want to cover those moves that a character always uses and are annoying as hell.

Nice OP btw, short and sweet

 

[Vlade]

Yeah I want to avoid Tornado since it has already been discussed so thoroughly.

 

[Teran]

I got some ideas.
Snake: Ftilt, Utilt (range and kill %s, general strategy etc.)
Meta Knight: Shuttle Loop (especially offstage), Dsmash, Side Taunt.
ROB: Nair, Laser
Captain Falcon: Dtaunt, Raptor Boost Waveland Dtaunt

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202597

Please, use some moves from the 2nd post (I stole your current idea of doing Snake's nades so yea xD)

Falcon DTaunt is horribly hard to deal with. I just can't show my moves

 

[Vlade]

Hey, no hard feelings. I stole this entire idea XD

Oh, and if you don't mind, would it be okay if I add pictures to the OP?

I actually seem to like the idea of Ness's PK fire. Multiple options spring to mind.

Ness's PK fire it is

 

[Vlade]

Double post, I know. :/

OP updated. Currently discussing Ness's PK Fire.

Go!

 

[Denzi]

Reflect it if it'll make it back to him, otherwise it's safer to just walk away.

If you're caught in it, SDI is your friend.

Offstage: don't get hit with it. Ever. DJ Shine if applicable.