How much of Zelghandi can YOU do?

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Seeing as how the technical level of players has steadily been increasing, I was curious how much our fox players can match out of the most well known techskill video from Silent Wolf?

For myself, everything except JC shines, I've only practiced them for a bit so I can only do a couple. Surprisingly, besides those the only thing that took me a while to get was the teeter animation to waveshine onto the edge. I used to always airdodge off, and I tried it yesterday for the first time in months and I could do it.

But yeah, I'm just curious what our average techskill is looking like now.

 

[Wenbobular]

Maybe you're just soooo technical Ted.

 

[Lovage]

zelghandi is EASY

 

[RaynEX]

Lovage its not THAT easy. I think what you want to say is "with diligent practice most people can probably pull it off."

I can do everything except:

-5 JC shines consistently
-JC shines, turning around on each one
-Pivots on command and in quick succession

 

[Lovage]

yup
EASY PEASY

 

[Silent Wolf]

zelghandi is bad
my new video will blow you away :o

 

[Stratford]

Lol SW can do it all.

The one sequence with the 3 advancing multishines to wd to moonwalk off into the Doraki jump reverse laser firefox regrab into Doraki again ****... I've been working on that. I've got each part individually but when going for the whole sequence, something always fails.

Hype for the new vid.

 

[KirbyKaze]

zelghandi is bad

I didn't want to say anything, but I mean if Lovage can do it how good can it really be?

 

[Silent Wolf]

It was on FD only.
FD is gay and you cant do anything cool there

 

[JPOBS]

none of it cuz none of its useful

i haz a very efficient fockz, no tech showoff 4 meee

 

[SpaceFalcon]

Naw you gotta show off some; though not to the point where it's costing you stocks or matches. It literally took me years of stupid SD's to finally get my motions right.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

none of it cuz none of its useful

i haz a very efficient fockz, no tech showoff 4 meee

JC shines can be useful alot of the times, as are pivots, shine out of shield, etc.

 

[Strong Badam]

shine out of shield isn't even difficult and is unnecessary to be jc'd if you're using it right.
i /can/ do a lot of it but i don't cuz it's dumb.

 

[Smoke and smash]

I don't know how much time I would need to dedicate to do all the amazingly useless stuff silent wolf does. He must practice by himself a lot in order to do that ****.

 

[DippnDots]

shine out of shield isn't even difficult and is unnecessary to be jc'd if you're using it right.
i /can/ do a lot of it but i don't cuz it's dumb.

yeah five JC shines'll get you grabbed, pivots are sexy when they land, excessive wavelanding will only get you punished. Videos like these are meant to show precision, like when someone plays a guitar scale real quickly it sounds bad *** but isn't anything special, just speeding up and down a scale.

Real tech skill takes application and being over excessively technical only makes you predictable. It's just about knowing what to do at the specific situation and not about being flashy.

 

[ChivalRuse]

JC shines are too hard. >_<

I can't do anything in that video. Which video is it again?

 

[PB&J]

i can do all of it and its all useful when it needs to be..

wolf- cant wait til your new vid son and tell eggz to send me those cds

 

[Eggz]

Are people really implying that multiple JC shines are expected to be useful?

1 - Its a techskill vid

2 - JC shines are the least Silent Wolf thing Silent Wolf does.

3 - Did that guy up there just say jumpcancel shines out of shield is useless?

4 - Why are bad people who aren't anywhere near as good as your average technical player bragging about how they play an ugly and basic playstyle and "win" (AKA beat their ****ty friends) with it? Limiting yourself to the basics just to brag about only using the basics is pointless. Why limit yourself?

 

[PB&J]

eggz is the man

 

[ChivalRuse]

The man with the plan.

I haven't played Fox in so long. My tech skill is like all gone.

 

[Teczer0]

I can shine turnaround WD.....

Not perfectly though and not during the run animation for some reason god I suck

 

[TresChikon]

You have to JC a shine during the dash animation since you can't CC it.

 

[victra♥]

zelghandi is bad
my new video will blow you away :o

omg hype.

I honestly can't wait for this.

 

[Rubyiris]

I'm slowly working on being the most technical player in AZ. :3

 

[Diddyknight]

Being technical is fun lol SW is too good =D

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

3 - Did that guy up there just say jumpcancel shines out of shield is useless?

4 - Why are bad people who aren't anywhere near as good as your average technical player bragging about how they play an ugly and basic playstyle and "win" (AKA beat their ****ty friends) with it? Limiting yourself to the basics just to brag about only using the basics is pointless. Why limit yourself?

JC Shine out of shield is pretty **** good, more so with Falco though.

It's not so much about being simple. You can be technical, but only as much as you have to be. Granted it gives you more options for select situations, but I think as technical as the metagame is becoming, more and more players are seeing that its more important to just space perfectly, and make correct reads so you can punish harder. Basic stuff works :/

 

[Deleted member]

Fox and Falco have a lot of room to grow as people get more technical. JC shines are extremely useful if used properly, they beat almost every out of shield option. Just watch DaShizwiz play with Falco and watch him predict and punish shield grabs with JC shines. He only does like 2 or 3 in a row but it still works extremely well. Shinegrabs are also starting to be used more by players like Colbol, to end shield pressure into a grab if they are being stubborn and camping in their shield. A lot of the good Fox players now don't just end their shine combos after one go, they will shine you across the stage and then finish their combo (against Peach and C Falcon).

 

[Deleted member]

all of it except moonwalk. I never learned how to moonwalk with any character.

 

[JPOBS]

Are people really implying that multiple JC shines are expected to be useful?

3 - Did that guy up there just say jumpcancel shines out of shield is useless?

4 - Why are bad people who aren't anywhere near as good as your average technical player bragging about how they play an ugly and basic playstyle and "win" (AKA beat their ****ty friends) with it? Limiting yourself to the basics just to brag about only using the basics is pointless. Why limit yourself?

i dont think anyone said either of those two things

chill the **** out

 

[Eggz]

i dont think anyone said either of those two things

chill the **** out

nah.

JC Shine out of shield is pretty **** good, more so with Falco though.

It's not so much about being simple. You can be technical, but only as much as you have to be. Granted it gives you more options for select situations, but I think as technical as the metagame is becoming, more and more players are seeing that its more important to just space perfectly, and make correct reads so you can punish harder. Basic stuff works :/

All of my techskill comes from adapting to fighting SW. I can assure you that when it comes down to it, you need everything. If you fight an extremely technical player, the sheer APM vs APM will make you lose.

I'd say shine oos is crucial with both fox and falco. bread and butter with both. like all i do with fox is shine and it does me pretty nicely

 

[Strong Badam]

Are people really implying that multiple JC shines are expected to be useful?

1 - Its a techskill vid

2 - JC shines are the least Silent Wolf thing Silent Wolf does.

3 - Did that guy up there just say jumpcancel shines out of shield is useless?

4 - Why are bad people who aren't anywhere near as good as your average technical player bragging about how they play an ugly and basic playstyle and "win" (AKA beat their ****ty friends) with it? Limiting yourself to the basics just to brag about only using the basics is pointless. Why limit yourself?

1. yea
2. idk i don't watch or play silent wolf on a regular basis
3. i didn't say it was useless, i said it was unnecessary. there's like no situation unless you made a mistake earlier in which a jc shine oos is better than just jumping oos and shining and then djing into an edgehog or bair.

4. cactuar

 

[TresChikon]

It comes out in like two frames, jumping and shining takes too long.

 

[Vegard]

i can do all of it and its all useful when it needs to be..

wolf- cant wait til your new vid son and tell eggz to send me those cds

Sorry, but you can't do nearly all of the tings in that video.

and if some of you really think you can, most of you aren't doing it nearly as fluently as Silent Wolf.

just my 0.02$

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

If you fight an extremely technical player, the sheer APM vs APM will make you lose.

M2k thinks otherwise lol.

I'm not trying to argue that being technical is bad. Far from it. Being technical, especially in the sense of fundamentals, means never missing l-cancels so you can never get punished and never drop combo strings. Or using wavelands to keep combos going with grabs and tilts instead of aerials so your combos go far longer. Certainly some stuff looks really cool, like moonwalking with spacies, I just personally feel focusing on the core aspects of the game, and working to not mess those up will benefit me more in the long run than being to moonwalk to the edge with fox, even if I do practice it occasionally for the entertainment value.

 

[Rubyiris]

1. yea
2. idk i don't watch or play silent wolf on a regular basis
3. i didn't say it was useless, i said it was unnecessary. there's like no situation unless you made a mistake earlier in which a jc shine oos is better than just jumping oos and shining and then djing into an edgehog or bair.

4. cactuar

JC shine OOS > Wavedash is easily the best feasible option. Your argument is moot. There is no reason not to learn how to do this. Limiting yourself is the definition of scrub.

 

[Rubyiris]

M2k thinks otherwise lol.

I'm not trying to argue that being technical is bad. Far from it. Being technical, especially in the sense of fundamentals, means never missing l-cancels so you can never get punished and never drop combo strings. Or using wavelands to keep combos going with grabs and tilts instead of aerials so your combos go far longer. Certainly some stuff looks really cool, like moonwalking with spacies, I just personally feel focusing on the core aspects of the game, and working to not mess those up will benefit me more in the long run than being to moonwalk to the edge with fox, even if I do practice it occasionally for the entertainment value.

Did you use your brain for even a moment before typing that out?

 

[TresChikon]

Did you use your brain for even a moment before typing that out?

He's just emphasizing consistency is much more important than executing flashy commands. Nothing bad about that.

 

[Strong Badam]

It comes out in like two frames, jumping and shining takes too long.

what? jcing a shine from a shield takes 4 frames + however long it takes to jump out of the shine & do stuff, while jumping and shining takes anywhere between 5 frames and.... whatever frame that's just before fox lands after not ffing a full hop, and because you're in the air your jump from the shine takes 1 frame instead of 4. you effectively gain a 2 or 3 frame advantage. in comparison.

JC shine OOS > Wavedash is easily the best feasible option. Your argument is moot. There is no reason not to learn how to do this. Limiting yourself is the definition of scrub.

here's a good reason: there are hundreds of other things to learn that are far more important and applicable to more situations that arise in the game based on effort/time:reward ratio. you're calling me a scrub for being efficient in what i choose to learn by focusing on core aspects of the game first, that in the long run account for a much larger proportion as to why some players are good and others aren't so good. sw is a beast & has amazing "tech skill," but he still loses on a national level while players like mango and m2k with much, much lower APM have been ****** the national tournament scene since like 2008.

 

[Vegard]

People say "why limit yourself". Limiting yourself with Fox is key to success. Look at M2k when playing Fox dittos/fox vs falco. How does he play? Goes for the grab game, and combos with what? upsmashes, lots of upsmashes.

Strong_Bad knows what he's talking about. What do all the former top Fox players have in common? Neither of them were unnecessary flashy. Silent Wolf was never close to KDJ's, M2k's, PC's, Jman's or Chillin's (at his best days) level.

Colbol is on of the few that actually manages to use flashy stuff in a useful way, but that doesn't mean he's always flashy.


Rubyris is such a scrub.

 

[JPOBS]

If you fight an extremely technical player, the sheer APM vs APM will make you lose.

then why doesnt SW win major tournies?