How come so many people are taking a dump of FE lately?

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Then stop using the main characters.

Link isn't the only Zelda character in Smash Okay, bad example. Mario isn't the only Mario character in Smash. Starter Pokemon and Pikachu are not the only Pokemon in Smash. This isn't hard, people.

I don't think that comparison flies. Mario's support cast; Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, are well known on their own, tend to play bigger roles in their games (Same as with Zelda and Ganon) and have managed to branch out on their own.

Most of the Pokemon cast in Smash have managed to break out on their own to assure them mass exposure and have had significant roles like Lucario, Charizard, Mewtwo and Greninja. Add to that the Pokemon games don't have a true Pokemon protagonist.

FE Warriors also had a bad representation though. It was front loaded with awakening and fates, with a whopping 3 from Shadow Dragon, and was littered with swords, despite too many swords being the reason stated why they didn't just pick the lords from across all games instead of just 3. To add salt to the wound, until dlc there was only 3 axes, 3 bows, and 3 lances (and all the bows and lances were clones of each other) and only 1 dragon stone user.

Edit:And this is a game that actually mattered what weapons were used with the characters since it used the weapon triangle.

Fine. People should play Heroes then.

 

[FirestormNeos]

FE Warriors also had a bad representation though. It was front loaded with awakening and fates, with a whopping 3 from Shadow Dragon, and was littered with swords, despite too many swords being the reason stated why they didn't just pick the lords from across all games instead of just 3. To add salt to the wound, until dlc there was only 3 axes, 3 bows, and 3 lances (and all the bows and lances were clones of each other) and only 1 dragon stone user.

Edit:And this is a game that actually mattered what weapons were used with the characters since it used the weapon triangle.

Now that I think about it, maybe Kingdom Hearts and Mario Odyssey weren't entirely to blame for me losing interest in that game after beating the story, after all.

Fire Emblem has a breathtakingly massive number of characters. Using a non-main character is guaranteed to elicit "who the hell is that" reaction from non-FE fans.

Spoiler: I feel bad for saying this, but...

Ah, but of course, what was I thinking?

( for Americans)

Smash has never had obscure characters in its roster.



Such an inclusion would be simply unprecedented.



To think that Sakurai would put in anyone but the most popular and relevant would be preposterous!



WHEREMST'VE GOKU?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Most of them are main characters, in some sort of way.

 

[Deleted member]

If people want to see more FE characters that don't use swords in Smash, start asking Intelligence Systems to make more protagonists that wield some other weapon in future Fire Emblem games from now on. That's the only way we'll ever see FE characters that don't wield swords in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

People think the negativity towards FE is motivated by a dislike of the series. Or the derivativeness of its inclusions. I think both of those, while probably a part of the picture, take a backseat to people simply disliking when one series feels much more bloated than the rest on the roster.

I think it's primarily an indiscriminate backlash, one that any series would face should it be in FE's shoes. I mean people didn't complain about FE until 4, for Brawl they complained about Kirby and Star Fox and series that were, at that point, perceived as overrepresented. Even before DLC kicked off for 4, Kid Icarus received the brunt of the aspersions. It's enmity towards any IP that compromises the egality among series on the roster (as the fanbase sees it), not towards FE simply because it's FE.

FE just experienced something generally disliked by the fanbase and took it to a more extreme level than in the past.

 

[Folt]

Then stop using the main characters.

Link isn't the only Zelda character in Smash Okay, bad example. Mario isn't the only Mario character in Smash. Starter Pokemon and Pikachu are not the only Pokemon in Smash. This isn't hard, people.



FTFY

Any of those series are rather bad examples, actually. Mario has a recurring cast that often have major roles in every Mario game. Pokémon by design favors the popular monsters and whoever the developers feel should be marketed at the time and the series as a whole revolves around the Pokémon. Fire Emblem meanwhile has pretty much every game have it's own segregated cast unless it's a sequel to the previous game, meaning every FE game adds one or more protagonists and a massive amount of characters to it's name for just about every game. As each game revolve around the protagonist, there's pretty much a fat chance in hell that a C-list character is getting considered for Smash.

FE Warriors also had a bad representation though. It was front loaded with awakening and fates, with a whopping 3 from Shadow Dragon, and was littered with swords, despite too many swords being the reason stated why they didn't just pick the lords from across all games instead of just 3. To add salt to the wound, until dlc there was only 3 axes, 3 bows, and 3 lances (and all the bows and lances were clones of each other) and only 1 dragon stone user.

Edit:And this is a game that actually mattered what weapons were used with the characters since it used the weapon triangle.

FE Warriors has representation on par with the original Hyrule Warriors, taking characters from three games for it's initial outing and some bonus ones.

Also, a roster consisting of only main characters (and some recurring ones) would be worse:

1. Marth (Sword, Lord)
2. Tiki (Stone, Mankete)
3. Alm (Sword, Lord)
4. Celica (Tome, and this is me being generous and liberal, Priestess)
5. Sigurd (Sword, Knight Lord)
6. Seliph (Sword, Junior Lord)
7. Leif (Sword, Lord)
8. Roy (Sword, Lord)
9. Eliwood (Sword)
10. Hector (Axe, Lord)
11. Lyn (Sword, Lord)
12. Eirika (Sword, Lord)
13. Ephraim (Lance, Lord)
14. Ike (Sword, Ranger)
15. Elincia (Sword, Crimean Princess)
16. Micaiah (Tome, Light Mage)
17. Chrom (Sword, Lord)
18. Robin (Tome, Tactician)
19. Lucina (Sword, Lord)
20. Corrin (Stone, again, this is me being generous and liberal, Nohr Prince/ss)
21. Azura (Lance, Songstress)
22. Ryoma (Sword, Swordmaster)
23. Xander (Sword, Paladin)
24. Anna (Bow, Trickster)

Compared to what we got:

1. Rowan (Sword, Lord)
2. Lianna (Sword, Lord)
3. Chrom (Sword, Lord)
4. Robin (Tome, Tactician)
5. Lucina (Sword, Lord)
6. Lissa (Axe, Cleric)
7. Frederick (Axe, Great Knight)
8. Cordelia (Lance Pegasus Knight)
9. Corrin (Sword, Nohr Prince/ss)
10. Ryoma (Sword, Swordmaster)
11. Xander (Sword, Paladin)
12. Hinoka (Lance, Sky Knight)
13. Camilla (Axe, Revenant Knight)
14. Takumi (Bow, Archer)
15. Leo (Tome, Dark Knight)
16. Sakura (Bow, Priestess)
17. Elise (Tome, Troubadour)
18. Marth (Sword, Lord)
19. Caeda (Lance, Pegasus Knight)
20. Tiki (Stone, Manakete)
21. Anna (Bow, Trickster)
22. Lyn (Sword, Lord)
23. Celica (Sword, Priestess)

Not only does one roster have a higher variety of weapons, but also a higher variety of actual FE classes as well.

 

[31fps]

I can find no words that can describe how utterly wrong you are. Fire Emblem music is very very good, especially with the latter Fire Emblems.

Did you read the post? I said IMO. I didn't post that so someone could critique me.

I don't like FE music. That's one of the reasons why I don't care that much about it.

 

[Opossum]

I do kind of wish we'd get more secondary characters added. Celica's the last main lord I really want in Smash, now that Chrom and Marth are in. I'd love to see Caeda and Merric, for example, in spite of their odds.

FE fans are funny, they want them to be unique, but they aren't. But they can't be alts, yikes.

That's right, no "yikes" about it. Want to know what happens to alts? Look at Alph. To make, say, Chrom an alt of Roy like Alph is to Olimar would be to butcher Chrom beyond recognition for reasons I listed before.

 

[SmashBro99]

I do kind of wish we'd get more secondary characters added. Celica's the last main lord I really want in Smash, now that Chrom and Marth are in. I'd love to see Caeda and Merric, for example, in spite of their odds.


That's right, no "yikes" about it. Want to know what happens to alts? Look at Alph. To make, say, Chrom an alt of Roy like Alph is to Olimar would be to butcher Chrom beyond recognition for reasons I listed before.

If he's as popular as I believe he is, people would still play him and just be happy he's there.

FE fans are so entitled lol.

 

[Opossum]

If he's as popular as I believe he is, people would still play him and just be happy he's there.

FE fans are so entitled lol.

Character identity is important. Chrom shouldn't use fire or hold his sword in a reverse grip, which being an alt would require him to do. Characters aren't just functions.

It's not entitlement, it's proper representation, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I can find no words that can describe how utterly wrong you are. Fire Emblem music is very very good, especially with the latter Fire Emblems.

Please respect others' opinions.
If you disagree with them then say that. But do not try to offend them or make it sound like they are "wrong" for having an opinion.

 

[31fps]

Character identity is important. Chrom shouldn't use fire or hold his sword in a reverse grip, which being an alt would require him to do. Characters aren't just functions.

It's not entitlement, it's proper representation, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

It's entitlement, and far from proper representation. No matter how much you want to advocate for it and pretend it isn't.
If FE was properly represented then it would only have like 4 fighters but they would all use different weapons to represent the weapon triangle.

As long as someone out there wants this one obscure FE character in smash, Sakurai will take them seriously and make an effort to add them. At least, that's what it's been like for seventeen years.

I really still don't understand how with seven ****** fighters a Fire Emblem fan can still want more out of it. Even if their movesets are all lame at least you're getting represented a ton.

 

[SmashBro99]

Character identity is important. Chrom shouldn't use fire or hold his sword in a reverse grip, which being an alt would require him to do. Characters aren't just functions.

It's not entitlement, it's proper representation, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

Misunderstanding then, I like Chrom and I agree he could have his own, more accurate moveset.

I'm talking about the way characters are now, and how I'd prefer any characters that are ALMOST the exact same as another to just be treated like an alt, mostly refering to Lucina in this case.

Of course in a perfect world each character would have an accurate moveset and not borrow from someone else that makes no sense. ()

 

[Opossum]

It's entitlement, and far from proper representation. No matter how much you want to advocate for it and pretend it isn't.
If FE was properly represented then it would only have like 4 fighters but they would all use different weapons to represent the weapon triangle.

As long as someone out there wants this one obscure FE character in smash, Sakurai will take them seriously and make an effort to add them. At least, that's what it's been like for seventeen years.

I really still don't understand how with seven ****** fighters a Fire Emblem fan can still want more out of it. Even if their movesets are all lame at least you're getting represented a ton.

I'm talking about proper character representation, not franchise representation. Chrom being a Roy alt instead of a Roy echo isn't representative of his character at all.

And that's just the thing...you act like every Fire Emblem fan is part of some hive mind or something equally ludicrous. Not every Fire Emblem fan is going to like every Fire Emblem character. Take me, for example. Chrom and Marth are easily in my top five favorite characters in the franchise. Lucina's somewhere in the top thirty or so for me. I'm completely neutral on Roy and PoR Ike, and neutral but slightly negative at parts of the story for RD Ike and Robin, and I absolutely loathe Corrin.

Everyone wants different things. Hell, Fire Emblem has an abysmal stage selection, with only a single stage (Arena Ferox) being a specific location while the other two are general concepts more than areas. That sucks.

Misunderstanding then, I like Chrom and I agree he could have his own, more accurate moveset.

I'm talking about the way characters are now, and how I'd prefer any characters that are ALMOST the exact same as another to just be treated like an alt, mostly refering to Lucina in this case.

Of course in a perfect world each character would have an accurate moveset and not borrow from someone else that makes no sense. ()

Honestly the main things I'd want them to do if they ever wanted to change up Chrom in a future game would be to give him a new jab, and change his side special into a Javelin Toss. Nothing else really sticks out as awkward to me.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

WHEREMST'VE GOKU?

A highly requested ballot choice is comparable to lesser-known FE side characters? K. Rool trended on Japanese twitter at one point and pretty much all recorded Youtube reactions (where the largest portions of "casual" sections of the Smash fanbase resides) including one taken at Nintendo NY had people screaming "K. Rool?!" before he was even shown in his trailer. In contrast, the only Ultimate newcomer character that elicited a "who?" reaction was Richter (who is an echo fighter). This example does not at all support your argument but rather hurts it even more.

Any of those series are rather bad examples, actually. Mario has a recurring cast that often have major roles in every Mario game. Pokémon by design favors the popular monsters and whoever the developers feel should be marketed at the time and the series as a whole revolves around the Pokémon. Fire Emblem meanwhile has pretty much every game have it's own segregated cast unless it's a sequel to the previous game, meaning every FE game adds one or more protagonists and a massive amount of characters to it's name for just about every game. As each game revolve around the protagonist, there's pretty much a fat chance in hell that a C-list character is getting considered for Smash.

To further add to this, pretty much every Ultimate newcomer character has been recognisable and popular to at least the general Smash fanbase. The only reasons why Chrom even managed to make it in were that he was highly requested and he was feasible as an echo. Even then, him being the main guy of Awakening made him pretty recognisable enough that no-one really went "who?" at his inclusion. Ultimate is clearly a different beast in terms of the roster than previous games (made most blatantly obvious by all veterans being a priority addition for this game. In contrast, Ness was planned to be cut in Melee at one point and had Mother 3 not been cancelled, that plan would have been followed through)

The one exception to this trend? Richter, who's an echo fighter. And to be fair, he's a major character in Castlevania so even he wouldn't be support the idea of not using main characters for FE.

 

[Folt]

Did you read the post? I said IMO. I didn't post that so someone could critique me.

I don't like FE music. That's one of the reasons why I don't care that much about it.

Please respect others' opinions.
If you disagree with them then say that. But do not try to offend them or make it sound like they are "wrong" for having an opinion.

I don't actually get much Internet slang at all; most of that **** flies over my head.

It's entitlement, and far from proper representation. No matter how much you want to advocate for it and pretend it isn't.
If FE was properly represented then it would only have like 4 fighters but they would all use different weapons to represent the weapon triangle.

As long as someone out there wants this one obscure FE character in smash, Sakurai will take them seriously and make an effort to add them. At least, that's what it's been like for seventeen years.

I really still don't understand how with seven ****** fighters a Fire Emblem fan can still want more out of it. Even if their movesets are all lame at least you're getting represented a ton.

The easiest solution for that? Add Breidablik as an item to act as the Fire Emblem equivalent of the Pokéball and Assist Trophy. Then all the FE C-lister can show off and make people question who they are, any new protagonist can get a shot at a place in the roster, and every weapon and class can get a representation in Smash.

However, the biggest reason Fire Emblem is getting so many playables compared to other series is that other series quite frankly do not have many characters who need to be repped in Smash in a playable manner because one character (or in some cases: two characters) rep everything the series is so thoroughly or in other cases rep it better through stages than their characters. Fire Emblem however is much like Mario and Pokémon: It continuously adds characters people want to see playable in Smash or has something interesting to give as a playable character in Smash and continuously does that with pretty much every game compared to very many other franchises.

 

[Makai Wars]

The reason people are so tired of FE is because Fire Emblem is a niche franchise that somehow has more fighters than much bigger, much older franchises. And I know someone is gonna roll up with "yeah but FE has a ton of characters so it makes sense!" argument but FE main characters are extremely replaceable by nature. Roy is irrelevant in his franchise now, characters like Chrom, Robin, Corrin and Lucina are never going to make a non-cameo appearance in FE ever again and will eventually be known more for being Smash characters than FE characters. Being a Smash character even after only having one game appearance is not a sin ( ) but the problem is that Mother and Xenoblade have 2 and 1 fighters each while FE has 7.

It doesn't help that ,, and were all added to promote their newest game at the time, and now people are expecting Edelgard because FE seems to get a free pass for promotional reps for whatever reason, meanwhile there have been legitimately good franchises totally passed up and now forgotten about (Drill Dozer, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, really a huge number of IPs from the GBA/GC era) because Sakurai wanted to sell the new Fire Emblem game to us.

 

[Folt]

The reason people are so tired of FE is because Fire Emblem is a niche franchise that somehow has more fighters than much bigger, much older franchises. And I know someone is gonna roll up with "yeah but FE has a ton of characters so it makes sense!" argument but FE main characters are extremely replaceable by nature. Roy is irrelevant in his franchise now, characters like Chrom, Robin, Corrin and Lucina are never going to make a non-cameo appearance in FE ever again and will eventually be known more for being Smash characters than FE characters. Being a Smash character even after only having one game appearance is not a sin ( ) but the problem is that Mother and Xenoblade have 2 and 1 fighters each while FE has 7.

It doesn't help that ,, and were all added to promote their newest game at the time, and now people are expecting Edelgard because FE seems to get a free pass for promotional reps for whatever reason, meanwhile there have been legitimately good franchises totally passed up and now forgotten about (Drill Dozer, Golden Sun, really a huge number of IPs from the GBA/GC era) because Sakurai wanted to sell the new Fire Emblem game to us.

Fire Emblem is as old as some of those franchises though, and while it being a niché franchise would have been true if you said it pre-Awakening, that game turned the franchise into a household name, which was further solidified by Fates and cementing it's place alongside other star franchises. In comparison, some of these older franchises have since fallen from their lofty peak and is nowhere near as prevalent as they used to be.

Seriously, Fire Emblem has it's own spinoffs now, and while one sadly bombed, one did extremely well (comparable to a similiar other Nintendo franchise spinoff), and the last one is the incredibly lucrative Heroes mobile game.

 

[Makai Wars]

Fire Emblem is as old as some of those franchises though, and while it being a niché franchise would have been true if you said it pre-Awakening, that game turned the franchise into a household name

Ah yes, FE the household name, the game who's best selling titles were outsold by and ARMS and needed 10 years of Smash promotion to not die after both of Ike's games tanked so hard the series was on life support till it turned into a dating sim. THAT FE.

In actuality FE has, is and will always be niche. FE fans simply overstate it's importance because Sakurai has a huge FE bias and continues putting it in Smash. If FE were as big as you say it was, this thread would not exist and people would not be so angry Fire Emblem has so much representation compared to other franchises.

and the last one is the incredibly lucrative Heroes mobile game.

Ah yes, that FE game, the one that has the least downloads of all the Nintendo mobile apps but brings in the most money, implying that rather than having mass appeal, it's the same audience sinking more and more money into waifu jpeg gambing, kind of like a niche franchise with a cult, otaku fanbase.

 

[Opossum]

The reason people are so tired of FE is because Fire Emblem is a niche franchise that somehow has more fighters than much bigger, much older franchises. And I know someone is gonna roll up with "yeah but FE has a ton of characters so it makes sense!" argument but FE main characters are extremely replaceable by nature. Roy is irrelevant in his franchise now, characters like Chrom, Robin, Corrin and Lucina are never going to make a non-cameo appearance in FE ever again and will eventually be known more for being Smash characters than FE characters. Being a Smash character even after only having one game appearance is not a sin ( ) but the problem is that Mother and Xenoblade have 2 and 1 fighters each while FE has 7.

It doesn't help that ,, and were all added to promote their newest game at the time, and now people are expecting Edelgard because FE seems to get a free pass for promotional reps for whatever reason, meanwhile there have been legitimately good franchises totally passed up and now forgotten about (Drill Dozer, Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, really a huge number of IPs from the GBA/GC era) because Sakurai wanted to sell the new Fire Emblem game to us.

I disagree on the "will eventually be more well known for being in Smash" point for the Awakening trio in particular, or at least Chrom and Lucina.

Awakening is to Fire Emblem what Final Fantasy VII was to Final Fantasy, just to a smaller degree due to it being a smaller franchise. It was the game that brought the franchise into the mainstream, and like Cloud for FFVII, Chrom and Lucina in particular continually show up in other games or in merchandise.

Chrom appeared in Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Project X Zone 2, WarioWare Gold, and Monster Hunter in the years following Awakening, in addition to having a special DLC mission in Fates, being the first character revealed for FE Warriors, having tons of Cipher Cards, and having four variants in Heroes. Lucina also appears in PXZ2 and Monster Hunter, as well as games that utilize her amiibo, has five Heroes variants, and gets even more merchandise than Chrom does.

These two are highly marketable due to coming from the most mainstream game in the franchise. I don't see them fading into obscurity any time soon, at least in comparison to most other Fire Emblem characters, or even some non-Fire Emblem characters on the Smash roster.

 

[Folt]

Ah yes, FE the household name, the game who's best selling titles were outsold by and ARMS and needed 10 years of Smash promotion to not die after both of Ike's games tanked so hard the series was on life support till it turned into a dating sim. THAT FE.

In actuality FE has, is and will always be niche. FE fans simply overstate it's importance because Sakurai has a huge FE bias and continues putting it in Smash. If FE were as big as you say it was, this thread would not exist and people would not be so angry Fire Emblem has so much representation compared to other franchises.

Or maybe it is the people who are angry at Fire Emblem having so much representation compared to other franchises so much that threads like this ends up being made because they literally cannot accept that the franchise is bigger than the ones they're playing ball for, hm?

And while outsold is certainly true, you probably should have just stuck to Splatoon because Arms sold about 2 million compared to 1.9 million with Awakening and 1.6 million with Fates so that's not actually a big difference compared to 4.93 million. We should also make note of Heroes and the money it generates with that as well (being Nintendo's most lucrative mobile game for now), and Fire Emblem Warriors which shipped as much as Hyrule Warriors did in six months (read: did extremely well for a Warriors game).

 

[Makai Wars]

And while outsold is certainly true, you probably should have just stuck to Splatoon because Arms sold about 2 million compared to 1.9 million with Awakening and 1.6 million with Fates so that's not actually a big difference compared to 4.93 million.

For a franchise that you're claiming to stand toe to toe with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and what have you, 1.9/1.6 million is really low, ESPECIALLY on the 3DS with an absurdly massive install base. Xenoblade 2 is matching those numbers, where are the other 6 Xenoblade fighters?

We should also make note of Heroes and the money it generates with that as well (being Nintendo's most lucrative mobile game for now)

Yes, because it is waifu gambling taking advantage of the fact that the FE fanbase will sink $500 a week for a jpeg of Robin in a skimpy bikini, this does not make FE an A-list franchise, it means IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

 

[aarchak]

IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

I just want to specify that FE Heroes has over 5 million downloads on the Google Play Store alone. Whatever horny weeb fanbase it may have, it is certainly not small.

 

[Folt]

For a franchise that you're claiming to stand toe to toe with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and what have you, 1.9/1.6 million is really low, ESPECIALLY on the 3DS with an absurdly massive install base. Xenoblade 2 is matching those numbers, where are the other 6 Xenoblade fighters?

Making way for the main protagonists of their games.

Yes, because it is waifu gambling taking advantage of the fact that the FE fanbase will sink $500 a week for a jpeg of Robin in a skimpy bikini, this does not make FE an A-list franchise, it means IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

Like the guy above me said, Heroes has 5 million downloads on the Google Play Store alone, so I guess 5 million people... which would be slightly above the amount of people who bought and played Splatoon I guess... are horny weebs.

 

[Opossum]

For a franchise that you're claiming to stand toe to toe with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and what have you, 1.9/1.6 million is really low, ESPECIALLY on the 3DS with an absurdly massive install base. Xenoblade 2 is matching those numbers, where are the other 6 Xenoblade fighters?

Yes, because it is waifu gambling taking advantage of the fact that the FE fanbase will sink $500 a week for a jpeg of Robin in a skimpy bikini, this does not make FE an A-list franchise, it means IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

Just saying dude, someone with a Shantae avatar shouldn't go around calling other fanbases "a bunch of horny weebs." Glass houses, and whatnot.

 

[Rocketjay8]

For a franchise that you're claiming to stand toe to toe with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and what have you, 1.9/1.6 million is really low, ESPECIALLY on the 3DS with an absurdly massive install base. Xenoblade 2 is matching those numbers, where are the other 6 Xenoblade fighters?

Yes, because it is waifu gambling taking advantage of the fact that the FE fanbase will sink $500 a week for a jpeg of Robin in a skimpy bikini, this does not make FE an A-list franchise, it means IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

You say that while your avatar's latest game had a giant, big breasted Mermaid with jiggle physics.

 

[Makai Wars]

Just saying dude, someone with a Shantae avatar shouldn't go around calling other fanbases "a bunch of horny weebs." Glass houses, and whatnot.

You say that while your avatar's latest game had a giant, big breasted Mermaid with jiggle physics.

Really loving these thrilling arguments.

 

[Opossum]

Really loving these thrilling arguments.

If you didn't resort to ad hominem people would take what you had to say more seriously. Instead you're coming off more like a troll.

 

[TheBean]

Guys how did this resort from a FE debate to making fun of people for liking a game.
I mean yeah having lots of characters in FE also means having lots of females but almost all of Nintendo's major first parties have at least one attractive female in them. That doesn't mean people play them because they're "horny weebs."

To discuss my opinion on FE, I do think it's super overrepresented. I wish Sakurai would stop cutting the game slack for being small. A lot of other games have suffered because of this, not to mention the cast of FE characters beyond Marth and Ike haven't really brought new methods of play with them. Whilst FE has sold in good numbers it's nothing compared to other games. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Kirby all outsell FE. DK matches it and sometimes comes a little short of it. That's five games already, and for the other five FE fighters I can easily think of another fighter for each of those series to replace them with.

Fire Emblem just doesn't bring quality to Smash.

 

[Makai Wars]

If you didn't resort to ad hominem people would take what you had to say more seriously. Instead you're coming off more like a troll.

My apologies, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it,

Spoiler

I didn't realize stuff like this had an audience outside of raw sex appeal, there's probably a really good gameplay mechanic revolving around girls getting their clothes torn off in battle that I don't know about.

But if it's okay to bring the discussion back to Smash Bros, the entire point I'm trying to make here is that even if FE:H pulls in money, it's due to a niche audience dumping their paychecks into it, this is why it has the least downloads out of all of Nintendo's mobile IPs. Nintendo has tried to bring to the forefront by promoting Fire Emblem in Smash again and again and again, and going off of how Corrin is still one of the most openly despised characters in the roster, it's not working. FE is nearly 30 years old and yet Splatoon has outsold it as a franchise in not even 3 years.

Considering the fact that people have complained about FE so much and for so long threads like this are common all over the place, it's clear that Smash fans don't consider FE to be the cream of the crop either. I've never seen anyone say "there are too many Pokemon in Smash," or "there are too many Mario characters in Smash," or "Zelda is overrepped!" Only FE, and it's probably for a reason.

 

[Drarky]

I've never seen anyone say "there are too many Pokemon in Smash," or "there are too many Mario characters in Smash," or "Zelda is overrepped!" Only FE, and it's probably for a reason.

Wait, you haven't? The Zelda one I can give you, but I for sure have heard the other two more than once.

 

[Makai Wars]

Wait, you haven't? The Zelda one I can give you, but I for sure have heard the other two more than once.

I've seen people say they don't want a Pokemon newcomer but never "there's too many Pokemon," and nothing even close to the number of people saying the same about FE.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

Here's my stance on the subject:
While I think the characters we have are fine (I don't count echoes as actual "reps", as they are more bonuses than anything), I do see where people are coming from. A lot of the characters have the same "anime sword-guy" aesthetic, and to someone who hasn't played the games they can all seem very similar (considering there's Marth, his semi-clone Roy, and both of them have Echoes).
Some people feel like Awakening has too many characters, I don't mind considering two out of three of them are Echoes.
And to people who think they should add more than just swords people, that's not as simple as it sounds. Fire Emblem is a series that has new characters for every single game (minus direct sequels) and most of the main characters use swords. In a franchise where there are very few recurring characters, adding side characters doesn't make as much sense. We do have hope with Edelgard though! She's the main protagonist of the upcoming Three Houses and she wields an axe!
Also, while there seems to be some favoritism towards FE by Sakurai, it's not as bad as many people make it seem. I has 4 original characters, one of which is a semi-clone, and 2 echoes. Both of the echoes are fan favorites, and not some random niche characters that Sakurai likes. Marth and Ike are iconic to the series and fan favorites as well, and Roy is a fan favorite in the Smash community. Robin and Corrin are both unique, so I don't see the problem with them.
I can see the problem with Corrin though, considering they were some random character from an (at the time) unreleased game and not a fan request like other DLC fighters.

For a franchise that you're claiming to stand toe to toe with Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and what have you, 1.9/1.6 million is really low, ESPECIALLY on the 3DS with an absurdly massive install base. Xenoblade 2 is matching those numbers, where are the other 6 Xenoblade fighters?

Yes, because it is waifu gambling taking advantage of the fact that the FE fanbase will sink $500 a week for a jpeg of Robin in a skimpy bikini, this does not make FE an A-list franchise, it means IS figured out how to wring money out of it's small, dedicated, horny weeb fanbase.

Okay, it's seriously hard to take your whole "FE is just waifu bait for weebs" argument seriously with a Shantae pic. I like Shantae and think it's neat and all, but almost all of the major characters are scantily clad females (I can think of a single character that's a dude)
Your other arguments, whether or not I agree with them, aren't bad. This one is just faulty because instead of using actual reason or logic, you're just attacking the fanbase.

 

[aarchak]

Guys how did this resort from a FE debate to making fun of people for liking a game.
I mean yeah having lots of characters in FE also means having lots of females but almost all of Nintendo's major first parties have at least one attractive female in them. That doesn't mean people play them because they're "horny weebs."

To discuss my opinion on FE, I do think it's super overrepresented. I wish Sakurai would stop cutting the game slack for being small. A lot of other games have suffered because of this, not to mention the cast of FE characters beyond Marth and Ike haven't really brought new methods of play with them. Whilst FE has sold in good numbers it's nothing compared to other games. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Kirby all outsell FE. DK matches it and sometimes comes a little short of it. That's five games already, and for the other five FE fighters I can easily think of another fighter for each of those series to replace them with.

Fire Emblem just doesn't bring quality to Smash.

Would you say Robin and Corrin don't bring something new to Smash? Yes, the 3 clones are kinda stupid, but that's mainly due to how Smash Ultimate is working, and not because Sakurai thinks they deserve more reps. It may have been explained before, but FE has a different cast every game with a few exceptions, and that means we should normally have changing reps every Smash game, but Everyone is Here, so all the FE reps come back, plus Chrom, who was highly requested by Japanese fans.

My apologies, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it,

Spoiler

I didn't realize stuff like this had an audience outside of raw sex appeal, there's probably a really good gameplay mechanic revolving around girls getting their clothes torn off in battle that I don't know about.

Wow. You don't actually know how the game works, so you're just insulting the fans. Whatever.

But if it's okay to bring the discussion back to Smash Bros, the entire point I'm trying to make here is that even if FE:H pulls in money, it's due to a niche audience dumping their paychecks into it, this is why it has the least downloads out of all of Nintendo's mobile IPs. Nintendo has tried to bring to the forefront but promoting Fire Emblem in Smash again and again and again, and going off of how Corrin is still one of the most openly despised characters in the roster, it's not working. FE is nearly 30 years old and yet Splatoon has outsold it as a franchise in not even 3 years.

Considering the fact that people have complained about FE so much and for so long threads like this are common all over the place, it's clear that Smash fans don't consider FE to be the cream of the crop either. I've never seen anyone say "there are too many Pokemon in Smash," or "there are too many Mario characters in Smash," or "Zelda is overrepped!" Only FE.

5 MILLION people playing, FE:H isn't niche. Corrin is despised because he's a terrible character from what is considered one of the worst games in the series story-wise. Fire Emblem isn't a huge series, but Splatoon is the hot new thing in Nintendo. OF COURSE it would outsell most things, hell, it outsold Kirby: Star Allies. Yes, 7 reps is too much for the series, but that's just how it turned out because "Everyone is Here". FE does deserve 4 reps, and we have 4 unique characters: ultcorrin:. The rest are echoes or semiclones, and I'm OK with that. That's how FE works.

 

[Makai Wars]

5 MILLION people playing, FE:H isn't niche

Five million DOWNLOADS of a FREE GAME is. Especially compared to big name stuff like Granblue and FGO which are bringing in billions from way more people.

Yes, 7 reps is too much for the series

Great, I'm glad we agree.

 

[Folt]

My apologies, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it,

Spoiler

I didn't realize stuff like this had an audience outside of raw sex appeal, there's probably a really good gameplay mechanic revolving around girls getting their clothes torn off in battle that I don't know about.

But if it's okay to bring the discussion back to Smash Bros, the entire point I'm trying to make here is that even if FE:H pulls in money, it's due to a niche audience dumping their paychecks into it, this is why it has the least downloads out of all of Nintendo's mobile IPs. Nintendo has tried to bring to the forefront by promoting Fire Emblem in Smash again and again and again, and going off of how Corrin is still one of the most openly despised characters in the roster, it's not working. FE is nearly 30 years old and yet Splatoon has outsold it as a franchise in not even 3 years.

Considering the fact that people have complained about FE so much and for so long threads like this are common all over the place, it's clear that Smash fans don't consider FE to be the cream of the crop either. I've never seen anyone say "there are too many Pokemon in Smash," or "there are too many Mario characters in Smash," or "Zelda is overrepped!" Only FE, and it's probably for a reason.

Five million DOWNLOADS of a FREE GAME is. Especially compared to big name stuff like Granblue and FGO which are bringing in billions from way more people.


Great, I'm glad we agree.

The constant drip of sheer condescension couldn't be more obvious from your posts.

And for the record, I have in fact seen people say those things on this very board and outside of it. The majority of Smash fans do not consider FE to be a bad series.

 

[Opossum]

I've seen people say they don't want a Pokemon newcomer but never "there's too many Pokemon," and nothing even close to the number of people saying the same about FE.

There are a ton of people who think there are "too many Pokémon." I think it's an absolutely tone deaf and dumb opinion to have, but a good chunk of people have it.

My apologies, I'm just calling it as I'm seeing it,

Spoiler

I didn't realize stuff like this had an audience outside of raw sex appeal, there's probably a really good gameplay mechanic revolving around girls getting their clothes torn off in battle that I don't know about.

But if it's okay to bring the discussion back to Smash Bros, the entire point I'm trying to make here is that even if FE:H pulls in money, it's due to a niche audience dumping their paychecks into it, this is why it has the least downloads out of all of Nintendo's mobile IPs. Nintendo has tried to bring to the forefront by promoting Fire Emblem in Smash again and again and again, and going off of how Corrin is still one of the most openly despised characters in the roster, it's not working. FE is nearly 30 years old and yet Splatoon has outsold it as a franchise in not even 3 years.

Considering the fact that people have complained about FE so much and for so long threads like this are common all over the place, it's clear that Smash fans don't consider FE to be the cream of the crop either. I've never seen anyone say "there are too many Pokemon in Smash," or "there are too many Mario characters in Smash," or "Zelda is overrepped!" Only FE, and it's probably for a reason.

Corrin is "openly despised" (she's not, she's just highly controversial) because of how poorly written a lot of the fanbase thinks she is.

Look, we get it. You're dead set on your opinion here. But you don't need to twist things to suit this narrative you've built up, as it's not arguing in good faith.

 

[Deleted member]

There are a ton of people who think there are "too many Pokémon." I think it's an absolutely tone deaf and dumb opinion to have, but a good chunk of people have it.

People here think there's too much Pokemon? Does this fandom have something against JRPGs?

 

[Folt]

People here think there's too much Pokemon? Does this fandom have something against JRPGs?

No. Just against series that are "taking roster spots that could have gone to this game/franchise me and some 100 people find very good and deserves everything Smash can give them!"

 

[Deleted member]

No. Just against series that are "taking roster spots that could have gone to this game/franchise me and some 100 people find very good and deserves everything Smash can give them!"

Jeez. I mean, I'd like a new Zelda character, but not about to blame other series for supposedly stealing roster spots.