How come so many people are taking a dump of FE lately?

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#1
I myself could care a out Fire Emblem less, but I don't hate it. I've always been interested in the game and I entertain the idea of trying it out. But I feel like so many other people seem to have a grudge against FE. A lot of times whenever I see FE mentioned in a conversation a day later another person already has something bad to say about it. I understand the controversy behind the size of the FE roster, but seriously? I often find myself simply leaving or avoiding conversations because someone has so many bad things to say regarding Fe and/or it's status in Smash. It's like there's a serious grudge going around or that the creator of FE personally insulted them.

I'll reiterate, I don't hate FE but I don't care much about it. But so many people I find online seem to have a worse opinion of it. And it's not just on smashboards, it's on other websites too. Is the controversy behind FE in smash really that serious?

9/25/18: In response to the recent case involving the creation of alternate accounts by a participant in this thread, I would like to remind everyone that even if you are outnumbered in your belief, you still have your right to your own opinion and judging people because they disagree with you is toxic and unallowed. But creating alternate accounts to promote your cause is unacceptable.
 
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#2
Well yeah it's annoying as a FE fan myself, but I wouldn't consider it serious. Otherwise the Smash team wouldn't have put Chrom in Ultimate.

And it's kind of funny: people have been claiming "oooh too much FE characters!" since Robin and Lucina were added, but Roy and Chrom were explicitly added because of fan requests, and I'm pretty sure if he wasn't DLC, Corrin (or another Fates representative) would be one of the surefire characters to be included by now? it's just funny, people act like "nobody wants another anime swordsman" or whatever when the fanbase is also big
 

Uffe

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#3
It's over representation of a series, with some other things. The same applies to the Mario and Pokemon series. At least for me and I'm sure a good number of others, but that's for a different discussion. I have nothing against Fire Emblem as a series, but here is what I don't like about Fire Emblem in Smash. All sword characters with the exception of Robin, because he actually doesn't rely solely no his blade, and was one character to introduce the use of a tome from the FE series. Marth makes sense to keep because he's the face of FE in Smash. I'm even fine with Ike, because despite him being another sword character, he wasn't a clone of Marth and Roy from the prior games. We've got swords and one tome character. Introduce lances, axes, bows, and staves. This would probably change peoples opinions on the FE characters in Smash.
 
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#4
I think a major contributing factor, at least during Smash 4, was that a few people felt that "Fire Emblem characters were robbing spots". Since everyone is asking for different characters, some people were asking for characters to be added for series like Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, and a few others. Instead of getting so e highly requested characters like King K. Rool and Ridley, we got Robin and Lucina instead. With the Fire Emblem reps out numbering some other popular franchises, it made them seem to be an "easy target" for lashing out against. Add to the fact that Roy and Corrin were added as DLC when people were also asking for other popular characters, it made them an even bigger target for people to argue about.

I personally am over hating the Fire Emblem "overrepresentation", I could care less at this point since I know Ultimate has a fantastic roster and I got my most wanted in King K. Rool. I even like to use Roy as a secondary since his moveset is so much fun to me. But I think people were jealous that so many Fire Emblem characters were being added "instead" of their prefered choice. Not gonna lie, I was pretty frustrated when the last characters were Corrin and Bayonetta, but it doesn't really matter to me now since it's clear that we're finally getting more fan favorites added. Chrom being added is just another "target" for people to complain about, but he was definitely requested and the "damage" was mostly done during Smash 4.

Overall, there may or may not have been some bias on Sakurai's part during Smash 4, but people made a scene out of it regardless. With that said, haters gonna hate, but I think more people are happy with the roster than not for Ultimate, and I feel like we'll finally see more characters outside of Fire Emblem. Plus, having seven Fire Emblem characters is a treat for fans of the series, and with how popular games like Awakening and Heroes have been, the franchise is standing the test of time. I used to be frustrated about Fire Emblem's "overrepresentation", but now it just feels like icing on the cake to me. I'm happy for you guys now.
 

letsgetsmashing

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#5
For me it's not having Fire Emblem characters that is the problem. It's that as of right now, we have four Fire Emblem characters with almost the exact same moveset. Chrom is an echo of Roy, who started out as an echo of Marth. And Lucina is Marth's echo. I'm not a huge Fire Emblem fan, but I do know the series has a large cast of interesting characters to choose from. It's just a shame that they keep choosing swordfighters, because anyone who's played Fire Emblem knows there's a handful of other type of fighters including axes, lances, bows, and magic. And I think people were fine with Roy, Robin, Lucina, Marth, and Ike being in Smash Ultimate. Corrin being in the game just left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths, because people were expecting a big name character since it was the last direct, and instead they got him. Nothing against the character, but I can see why people were angry, as Sakurai has admited that Nintendo pressured him into adding Corrin to promote Fire Emblem Fates. It can be even more upsetting when you consider the game didn't sell very well. Smash's roster is a collection of video game icons, and Corrin, no offense, is not one. I personally like that Robin, Lucina, and Chrom are all in the game, because they're the main trio in Fire Emblem Awakening and make a great team. So yeah, to sum it up, it's not the Fire Emblem series people hate, it's just that everything that happened with Corrin kind of gave the series a bad track record, which is too bad.
 

UserKev

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#6
I RARELY talk about Fire Emblem but when I think about the series, something about it is frustrating to me. It must have something to do with Lyn, a potentially unique sword user not getting in, where's even Chrom is in now. Yes, Chrom is a popular pick but so was Lyn, basically. Fire Emblem really has the whole "male sword lord" aspect going behind it and it makes me dislike it.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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#8
I enjoyed Fire Emblem as a game series but I found quickly that I do not like the fanbase for the game. The fire emblem characters in Smash are extremely boring in look and action and are overrepresented compared to the other characters in the game.
 

31fps

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#9
Well yeah it's annoying as a FE fan myself, but I wouldn't consider it serious. Otherwise the Smash team wouldn't have put Chrom in Ultimate.

And it's kind of funny: people have been claiming "oooh too much FE characters!" since Robin and Lucina were added, but Roy and Chrom were explicitly added because of fan requests, and I'm pretty sure if he wasn't DLC, Corrin (or another Fates representative) would be one of the surefire characters to be included by now? it's just funny, people act like "nobody wants another anime swordsman" or whatever when the fanbase is also big
Honestly I have to disagree with you. Fire Emblem is popular, yes, simply not as popular as most of Nintendo's other franchises. They put so much effort into FE games and they end up selling just as much or less than first parties that Nintendo clearly could have worked much harder on, but they sold great anyway (examples: Tropical Freeze port and Kirby: Star Allies, both sold equal to or better than FE games, yet they could have been so much more). What I'm saying is that people just like other series more than FE. To say it has a big fanbase is true. To say that's why it has 7 reps is false, compare the FE fanbase to Mario/Zelda/Kirby/DK and it's a different story.
Basically you can say that a spot was robbed by FE to put Corrin in the game since the Fates directors pushed Sakurai into doing to to increase sales, which ultimately failed.
 
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#11
What I honestly don’t get is the gripe that they all use swords. That is to be expected, since almost every FE protagonist is a sword fighter and the legendary weapons used to take down the games’ final bosses are mostly swords. Axes would still be wielded like a sword so they bring nothing new except an aesthetic change, Robin already uses tomes, having a move set based around a bow is impractical unless you have a hybrid weapon like Pit’s which doesn’t exist in any FE game; so if you must have a bow the Pits and Links got you covered. And regarding lances, Corrin, as unpopular and controversial as he/she is, covers that quite nicely with his dragon appendages. That’s right, Corrin does representation right by having a unique move set and using his manakete abilities allowing him to playing differently from his peers.

I don’t get this silly need that we must have an axe, bow, etc. It’s as silly as people wanting a Pokémon from each gen or every Mario power up under the Sun.
A sword doesn’t prevent Marth, Ike, Robin and Corrin from having a unique move set, and Roy has enough differences to stand on his own. Yeah there is Chrom and Lucina, but that’s what they were intended for with one starting as an alt.
 

31fps

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#12
Honestly I just hope that they never add another FE character before removing one first.

And if they add a new one it should be a villain.
 

Oddball

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#13
There are a few problems with Fire Emblem.

While it's a long running series, it's kind of a niche one, not nearly as popular as some of Nintendo's bigger franchises which gives the impression that it's been given more representation than it deserves. The fact that several of the characters are tied to a single game doesn't help matters. It gives them a "one-and-done" feeling. They're obsolete right off the bat.

Another problem there is that a few of the characters in the past have been given spots before their game was even out making it feel like blatant advertising when other characters from different franchises don't appear to get this treatments.

Then we run into how same-y many of the Fire Emblem feels, both in moves and generic anime swordsman appearance.

Of course there's also the people that feel upset when Fire Emblem gets yet another new character when a franchise they may like doesn't even get an assist trophy.

It's over-representation. The Mario series is the worst offender, though. And no, just because characters like Yoshi, DK, and Wario have different logos does not make them any less of a Mario character.
Mario IS Nintendo and Smash gets it's name from mario. Half the roster could be Mario characters and I still wouldn't think it felt forced. ... Well, as long as they kept using actual characters. Give me Fawful, Wart, Tatanga, Paper Mario, and the like and I'm fine. Once it starts getting to Koopa Troopa, Goomba, Dry Bones etc that's when they've stepped over the line. (I will make an exception for Hammer Bros though.)
 
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ItsMeBrandon

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#14
It's true that FE got a lot of fighters in Smash 4 and are naturally getting a lot in Ultimate too.
It's also true that Mario and Pokémon get a lot of reps from their series.

I think a big reason why people put FE on the spot more than Mario or Pokémon is because most of the FE characters aren't that distinguishable for non-fans.
You look at the Mario series, and you can clearly tell who's who. No one's going to ask who Bowser Jr. is or confuse Rosalina with Daisy, etc. Whereas with FE, it's easier for people to not know who Corrin is or mistake Chrom for Ike, etc. They look a lot more similar to each other, and this is coming from a FE fan who can see the differences clearly. Pokémon fighters are obviously distinguishable from each other, even if some people don't know them all.

Some people also argue that FE is one of Nintendo's bigger series now, and it's true, but Mario and Pokémon have always been the top dogs, so I think most people give those 2 series a pass, myself included.

I think most people are just miffed at FE getting a lot of reps because the series they love far more are getting far fewer by comparison. It took us this long for Metroid to get at least 4 reps, and DK is finally getting at least 3 reps.

EDIT: I basically said everything that Oddball Oddball said, but not as well.
 
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31fps

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#15
Of course there's also the people that feel upset when Fire Emblem gets yet another new character when a franchise they may like doesn't even get an assist trophy.
[Ignore the quote above, see the quote below]

I think you're half right. Yes, FE is popular, but it depends on what "top dogs" we're comparing it to. I'll say it again, FE isn't popular enough to constitute 7 fighters at all, especially if over half of them are cloned of each other.
But if you just say, "Awakening sold 1.9 million units so let't put 3 characters from it in," that sounds semi reasonable.
If you say "Yes Awakening sold 1.9 million units, but all the fighters form it were from one game only an certainly are not gaming icons, plus there are more popular fighter requests from games that have larger fanbases and sell better," you would probably not add a single character and never think twice about it.
In the end though we all know that since 2001 the reason FE has so many fighters is because they want it to be more popular (epic fail).

Edit: I meant to quote:
"Some people also argue that FE is one of Nintendo's bigger series now, and it's true, but Mario and Pokémon have always been the top dogs, so I think most people give those 2 series a pass, myself included." (ItsMeBrandon).
 
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TMNTSSB4

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#16
It's over-representation. The Mario series is the worst offender, though. And no, just because characters like Yoshi, DK, and Wario have different logos does not make them any less of a Mario character.
Considering it’s the Mario series, over-representation is deserved (same with Pokémon)
 
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#17
Honestly I have to disagree with you. Fire Emblem is popular, yes, simply not as popular as most of Nintendo's other franchises. They put so much effort into FE games and they end up selling just as much or less than first parties that Nintendo clearly could have worked much harder on, but they sold great anyway (examples: Tropical Freeze port and Kirby: Star Allies, both sold equal to or better than FE games, yet they could have been so much more). What I'm saying is that people just like other series more than FE. To say it has a big fanbase is true. To say that's why it has 7 reps is false, compare the FE fanbase to Mario/Zelda/Kirby/DK and it's a different story.
Basically you can say that a spot was robbed by FE to put Corrin in the game since the Fates directors pushed Sakurai into doing to to increase sales, which ultimately failed.
I never said it's popular to a Mario/Zelda level or that its popularity lead to 7 characters. All I said is that the character requests for Fire Emblem kept pouring in regardless of people hating on it. I mean, even after Fire Emblem having 4 characters, Roy was one of the most requested characters to become DLC. Of course, it's not like Mario or Pokémon where just the series existing warrants them one or two new characters per Smash game

And I wouldn't call Corrin's spot "robbed", it was just not that requested back then. The spot was reserved for a character from a recent/upcoming game, to promote it. And, upon discussing with Nintendo and the team, Corrin was to them the best/most viable choice. I mean I'm not sure what exactly made them conclude Fates was the best game to promote when Xenoblade Chronicles X or Star Fox Zero would likely benefit more of a character in Smash back then, but that was their reasoning regardless
 

Fell God

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#19
People love to complain, especially when their favorite isn't already in. It's not like complaining will get them to remove the characters anyway so there really isn't any point to it.

Edit: FE fans though are the literal worst though, I do my best to avoid associating with them and their strange elitist antics.
 
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YoshiandToad

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#20
I think releasing Corrin during a period of time when it was implied that the ballot would decide the DLC characters was a ****ing terrible idea.

S/he'd have been better recieved at this point, but at that point Corrin's game wasn't released in the west at all, and having recieved a unique newcomer, a clone and a returning veteran in a single game probably felt like Fire Emblem overkill.

Nearly every single character bar Chrom or Daisy from Ultimate would have triggered a much more positive audience response; Ridley and K. Rool would have blown everyone's minds, Splatoon was such a massive hit that Inklings would have been welcomed with open arms, Simon would have been recieved really well too and fit alongside the other third party DLCs and even Dark Samus would have been welcomed as Metroid fans were desperate for something.

It's a shame because Corrin is pretty unique, but I feel they're forever going to be tarnished with that brush.
 

Frizz

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#21
Not many people in the Smash community has ever played a Fire Emblem game before, so I would imagine that most of the contempt for the inclusion of Fire Emblem comes from a sense of unfamiliarity. And being unfamiliar with a series with as much representatives as Fire Emblem is what gets people to believe that they're over-represented. Mario and Pokemon aren't seen this way because a large majority of the Smash community is familiar with them. Unfamiliarity is also what gets them grouped together to something simple and usually derogatory, like "anime swordfighters", which to them, justifies their disdain for the series. Simply put, the amount of hate for Fire Emblem won't dissipate unless they have only 3 representatives, each wielding a different type of weapon. I honestly don't see them reducing the numbers of the amount of Fire Emblem characters in Smash anytime soon, taking into consideration of how frequent Intelligent Systems puts out Fire Emblem products. They've even got their own card game, Cipher, and their own mobile app, Heroes, and another game on its way by Spring of next year.

But that isn't to say that I don't think that some of those arguments are valid. I actually agree with them in some cases, like Chrom and Lucina being needless clones or at least having their moveset derived from another Fire Emblem character, commonly Marth. The two definitely have enough source material to have their own moveset, but in Lucina's case, she was a last-minute addition. For Chrom, I can't possibly imagine why, but if I had to guess, it would because Chrom was a well-requested character, so his inclusion as a fighter would be more than enough for the people who wanted him in. It'd also be because he'd fit more of the semi-elegant semi-roughhouse Chrom has going on and copies off of Roy as a result, similar to how Lucina is a much more elegant fighter than her father and thus copies off of Marth. Now, about the part of Fire Emblem over-representation, as well of the over-saturation of sword characters? I kind of agree, honestly. Marth is pretty much a necessity when it comes to representing Fire Emblem, so cutting him is out of the question. Roy really isn't all that popular in the Fire Emblem community as I'm led to believe, so cutting him won't cause too many tragedies. If anything, I'd say the only reason why Roy returned for Smash 4 was because of how popular he was as a character in Smash, hence all the "Roy's our boy" chanting he had around Brawl and pre-Smash 4. Not to mention that his weapon, the Binding Blade, is breakable in FE6, so it wouldn't make that much sense to have Roy swinging it around. Ike on the other hand, I feel is needed, at least for now. He's a more heavy hitter than Marth, which I'd say is fair game, and his weapon, Ragnell, is unbreakable in FE9/10. Chrom and Lucina were the two out of three major characters in FE13, the game that many people firmly believe saved the franchise, since it's often noted that it was meant to be the final game in series. Their weapons, Chrom's Falchion, and Lucina's Parallel Falchion, are unbreakable. So for now, they have reserved spots, but I wouldn't be too surprised that they get cut in future iterations of Smash down the line in favor of more recent Fire Emblem lords. Same goes for Robin too. He was the first worldwide My Unit character, a mechanic in which would become a recurring feature in the series. He can wield both swords and tomes, differentiating him from the rest of the Fire Emblem cast, which is why Sakurai considered him over Chrom back in Smash 4. Like Chrom and Lucina, he has a reserved spot for now, but may or may not get replaced eventually, by either a future sole tome user or a dual sword-tome user. And Corrin's a combination of previous three I just mentioned, that being Chrom, Lucina, and Robin, so they might get cut soon, since their inclusion was mainly to promote their upcoming game, akin to Roy back in Melee. The problem is, there really isn't any other alternatives. It's evident that they're going to choose Lord characters, or potentially choose recurring characters like Anna or Tiki. So anybody whose death doesn't provide the player a Game Over is pretty much out. When it comes to representing the other parts of the weapon triangle, Axes and Lances, there's only two Fire Emblem Lords that can fit the bill—Ephraim from FE8 as the lance user, and Hector from FE7/6 as the axe user. But they've no redeeming qualities or characteristics that they can add to the Fire Emblem roster, aside from being token weapon users. There's also Sigurd from FE4 who can wield swords alongside lances, and Eliwood from FE7/6 as another dual sword-lance wielder in a promoted class, but they're both unlikely since they're mounted on a horse, which would make things impracticable. Going back to the argument of over-saturation of sword wielders in Smash, I think it's valid but also justifiable at the same time. Swords are unarguably the balanced weapon of trio, providing both accuracy and power, whereas axes provide more power but less accuracy, and lances provide more accuracy but less power, hence why a vast majority of the Fire Emblem Lords equip themselves with swords as their weapon of choice. In fact, the only time they don't use a sword is when they're accompanied by another Lord who uses a sword in their stead. So regarding all of what I just said, the only possible representatives I can see in the future are Celica from FE2/15, Lyn from FE7, future Fire Emblem Lords, and maybe a Fire Emblem Heroes character. Celica uses swords but can use magic as well, and Lyn's Myrmidion class allows her to be a glass cannon of sorts—she'd be quick and powerful, but would be easy to knockout in order to compensate.

TL;DR
Arguments against FE
-Too many swordfighters
-Too many FE representatives in general


My Rebuttals
-Sword users are the balanced weapon out of the weapon triangle, hence why Lords mainly use them
-The current amount of FE representatives is fine, it's just that some of them don't represent other aspects of FE when they have the potential to do so (Chrom, Lucina)


What Can Be Done For FE to Make People More Happy
-Add Celica and/or Lyn to provide more alternate playstyles as opposed to being a Marth clone/semi-clone
-Allow more Lords to be diverse in their weapon(s) of choice (dual sword/bow user, axe/staff, etc)


You know, I don't think I've ever written a post on Smashboards as long as this one before. Took me quite a while to type it up too! Let me know if there's any typos that needs fixing.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#25
Its only Mario, dude. Pokémon is everywhere but its not Nintendo its self like Mario is.
Even though to not fully owned by Nintendo, Pokémon is still one of their series...so I don’t know where you’re getting at since both series have the most amount of content in Smash
I think it's ridiculous that, given the franchises place in the hierarchy of Nintendo franchises, that FE has the 3rd most representation in Smash Bros.

That said, if they're just adding echo fighters at this point, I don't really care.
Even though they have the 2nd/3rd most character reps in Smash, they don’t have the most representation overall (7 characters, 4 unique/2 echoes/1 semi, 3 stages with only 1 actually being based on one specific game, and they only just got an item after nearly 20 years of being in Smash)
 

UserKev

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#26
Even though to not fully owned by Nintendo, Pokémon is still one of their series...so I don’t know where you’re getting at since both series have the most amount of content in Smash
I didn't state Pokémon wasn't one of Nintendo's IP's.
 

Yosher

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#29
For me it's mostly because it's just swords, swords and more swords when Fire Emblem is so much more than that. I'm glad Robin at least represents something besides swords, partly, but otherwise I'm just tired of all the swords. Besides, with how Fire Emblem has been going ever since Awakening, the series has gone really downhill for me for a multitude of factors and I just stopped caring for the series whatsoever. I love Robin's playstyle in Smash at least, but other than that I could have absolutely lived without Lucina, Corrin and Chrom. They really feel like they're a waste of valuable space to me.

On the other hand, if they had added Lyn, Hector, Micaiah, and/or other pre-Awakening characters over Lucina, Corrin and Chrom, I probably wouldn't feel quite as bad with the Fire Emblem representation even if they were all sword users. Robin aside, the characters we got just feel incredibly bland to me. And in Corrin's case- who the heck goes into war barefoot? I hate their design so flipping much even if just because of this design choice. (And I'm talking Fire Emblem wise, not Smash wise, so don't bring up Ryu or Wii Fit Trainer or whatever. And yes I'm aware it's likely because they're part dragon and it's likely because they transform, but they could still wear/morph some kind of shoes damnit.)

Honestly, I'm just tired of Fire Emblem in general at this rate. I love the GBA ones, and Shadow Dragon on DS, as well as the GameCube and Wii ones, but from Awakening on it's just not fun anymore and I couldn't care less if the series died out at this point, truthfully unless they fix it somehow, but I doubt Three Houses is gonna be any better. If we get any more Fire Emblem reps in Smash I personally just really hope it's gonna be from the GBA or Gamecube games, but that's probably not going to happen unless people really start rallying for Lyn or Hector more like people did for Chrom.
 
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#30
For me it's mostly because it's just swords, swords and more swords when Fire Emblem is so much more than that. I'm glad Robin at least represents something besides swords, partly, but otherwise I'm just tired of all the swords. Besides, with how Fire Emblem has been going ever since Awakening, the series has gone really downhill for me for a multitude of factors and I just stopped caring for the series whatsoever. I love Robin's playstyle in Smash at least, but other than that I could have absolutely lived without Lucina, Corrin and Chrom. They really feel like they're a waste of valuable space to me.

On the other hand, if they had added Lyn, Hector, Micaiah, and/or other pre-Awakening characters over Lucina, Corrin and Chrom, I probably wouldn't feel quite as bad with the Fire Emblem representation even if they were all sword users. Robin aside, the characters we got just feel incredibly bland to me. And in Corrin's case- who the heck goes into war barefoot? I hate their design so flipping much even if just because of this design choice. (And I'm talking Fire Emblem wise, not Smash wise, so don't bring up Ryu or Wii Fit Trainer or whatever. And yes I'm aware it's likely because they're part dragon and it's likely because they transform, but they could still wear/morph some kind of shoes damnit.)

Honestly, I'm just tired of Fire Emblem in general at this rate. I love the GBA ones, and Shadow Dragon on DS, as well as the GameCube and Wii ones, but from Awakening on it's just not fun anymore and I couldn't care less if the series died out at this point, truthfully unless they fix it somehow, but I doubt Three Houses is gonna be any better. If we get any more Fire Emblem reps in Smash I personally just really hope it's gonna be from the GBA or Gamecube games, but that's probably not going to happen unless people really start rallying for Lyn or Hector more like people did for Chrom.
We're totally getting Edelgard DLC.

At least she's an axe lord, though. So it's kind of like getting Hector.
 

letsgetsmashing

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#34
It's over-representation. The Mario series is the worst offender, though. And no, just because characters like Yoshi, DK, and Wario have different logos does not make them any less of a Mario character.
The logos might not make them any less of Mario characters, but it does show that these characters come from their own line of games. Would you consider King K. Rool a Mario character, because I wouldn't.
 
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#35
Yeah, the only 'different logo' franchise that I'd consider a part of the Mario representation is Yoshi. Hell, even Smash 4's CSS reflected that: Yoshi was placed square between Bowser and Rosalina despite the characters being separated by franchise.

Wario never shows up in mainline Mario games and has his own series with a totally unique identity that his Smash design is based on.

And DKC is a famous, long-running series with an identity completely separate from that of the Mario franchise. Just because DK and Diddy show up in a few Mario spin-offs, or K. Rool was in Mario Super Sluggers that one time doesn't mean they're Mario characters. I mean, if showing up in Mario spin-offs makes them Mario characters, then I guess Link, Inklings, and Isabelle are all Mario characters since they were in MK8.

On the other hand, the Yoshi franchise IS heavily dependent on the Mario universe for its identity what with the Mario mooks and Baby Mario and Bowser and whatnot. So you have a point on that one, but only that one.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#36
It makes a lot of sense to have many Fire Emblem characters playable in Smash honestly. Because in the end, Smash made it possible for Fire Emblem to cross the ocean over from Japan to the western world because of Melee. Speaking of Melee, we DO remember we had 2 Fire Emblem characters in that game right? Whenever it was introduced, it already got more playable characters than franchises as Donkey Kong, Metroid and Kirby. So take that into consideration as well.

Now Brawl came, and we only had Ike and Marth. Which is the main reason why everyone was so upset I believe. It was a very tame "growth" going from two characters but one being a direct clone, to two original characters. We all know Roy was supposed to be on the roster as well, but it wouldn't even be a bad idea to introduce yet another Fire Emblem newcomer at this given point... As Fire Emblem had quite a few games released in the West, and Lyn was also hugely popular.

The big issue with "Fire Emblem overrepresentation" came with Smash 4. Where the growth was beyond just one newcomer. Marth and Ike where accepted and returning veterans that nobody would dream to be removed, and innitially only Robin and Lucina joined them. Which is still rather small growth, because Lucina is still a clone / Echo of Marth. Roy came back due to massive fan demand, and it was a good choice because I do believe he had way more popularity than the other left out veterans, Wolf included.

It's just when Corrin came that things began to feel out of proportion, and I can see why people would think this. Yet, I also appriciate Corrin coming to Smash as it was overall just a very smart move. Yes, they could've easily done the same thing with say, Elma from Xenoblade, but Sakurai had a preference for Corrin and that's okay.

Fire Emblem had a lot of potential playable characters, and even with all the characters we've got, there's still quite a lot of unique characters that are populary requested to include. Fire Emblem Heroes for example proves it. People love the cast of Fire Emblem games, and each new game normally gets a brand new cast unless it's a direct sequel or prequel, and even there new faces pop up everywhere. I said this somewhere before, but I do believe that Fire Emblem and Smash go well togheter and having a strong cast of Fire Emblem characters in Smash is a sort of 'honorary' to both franchises.
 

Turtlar

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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#37
I feel the criticism against FE in Smash have been oversimplified to "Too many anime sword users".

Let's break that down.

The biggest complaint is that FE is over-represented in Smash, sitting at 7 characters, the third most represented series overall, beneath Mario and Pokemon. While it is a long-running series, no doubt, it has by no means always been as popular or comercially successful as it is now. Awakening was when the series really hit commercial success and mainstream popularity, as well as being the first time the series sold over 1 million copies.

None of those things are inherently bad or problematic. Things become problematic when you take a look at other big name Nintendo franchises. Other long running game franchises who regularly push 1 million to multi-million sales, such as DKC, Kirby, Star Fox, and Metroid all only had 2-3 characters during Smash 4, compared to FE's 6. Not too mention there are plenty of fan favorite and very viable fighters from each of those franchises.

This becomes doubly frustrating when you take into account all of the other beloved niche games that have no characters in Smash, such as Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, etc. Fire Emblem was no different from those franchises when it was added to Melee, and has since received a massive push because of it. Why can't any of those game receive the same chance, instead of adding a 6th, 7th, or 8th FE character?


The other main criticism of FE is that too many of the characters are too similar. Yes, many of the popular characters use swords, but the games are built around the weapon triangle of sword, axe, lance.

Imagine if the only Pokemon ever added were all Electric typed? Imagine that the Pokemon line-up for Smash was as follows:

Pikachu, Pichu, Pachirisu, Dedenne, Emolga, Jolteon, and Ampharos

It's boring when you consider all of the unused Pokemon types not being used. Not too mention that 5 of them are basically just Pikachu. Sure Emolga has a few unique moves that makes it a little different, but it's basically just a flying Pikachu.

That is why everyone is sick of FE. Robin and Corrin are the only unique characters from an aesthetic and moveset standpoint. We should be asking why of 7 FE characters, none use an axe or a lance, and why so many of them look and play like Marth?


At the end of the day, the criticism of FE in Smash may be tired and said too many times, but it doesn't make them any less valid.
 

TMNTSSB4

Smash Hero
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JermaineJonesJr2
#39
Wario never shows up in mainline Mario games and has his own series with a totally unique identity that his Smash design is based on.

And DKC is a famous, long-running series with an identity completely separate from that of the Mario franchise. Just because DK and Diddy show up in a few Mario spin-offs, or K. Rool was in Mario Super Sluggers that one time doesn't mean they're Mario characters. I mean, if showing up in Mario spin-offs makes them Mario characters, then I guess Link, Inklings, and Isabelle are all Mario characters since they were in MK8.
1. Wario, like Daisy, debuted in a Super Mario Land game (his being the 2nd while Daisy was in the first)...and he’s also playable in the DS version of Super Mario 64
2. Cranky Kong and Mario debuted in the other Donkey Kong game, and that game leads to the Super Mario and DKC series (not only that, but the place that game was set in ended up becoming New Donk City, which has streets named after DK characters, and Yoshi once took care of the current Donkey Kong)...so Donkey and Diddy are definitely Mario characters even if they’re not apart of the core characters

Both of their series are spin off series to the overall Mario franchise, therefore being Mario characters
 
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