How come so many people are taking a dump of FE lately?

[Troykv]

I personally think Fire Emblem is just a franchises that you can't represent without using the characters themselves; there are very few iconic elements of the franchise that aren't characters that can be recognizable; this probably makes the franchise always having new material to create new characters and music; but being very loose with everything else.

 

[Crystanium]

Mario IS Nintendo and Smash gets it's name from mario.

Mario is Mr. Nintendo, but the whole roster isn't Nintendo. You also assert that Super Smash Bros. got its name from Mario, but you don't cite any source. Not that it would matter anyway, since it's irrelevant.

Considering it’s the Mario series, over-representation is deserved (same with Pokémon)

A mere assertion, nothing more. I could argue that there should be more Kirby characters, since SSB is Sakurai's creation.

The logos might not make them any less of Mario characters, but it does show that these characters come from their own line of games. Would you consider King K. Rool a Mario character, because I wouldn't.

You can imagine Donkey Kong as the source, with Mario Bros. flowing down from it, from which Super Mario Bros. also flows. Super Mario World produces a secondary source where Yoshi comes along. Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins introduces Wario. There were other Donkey Kong games, which eventually produced Donkey Kong Country and its subsequent streams. Although King K. Rool is farther from the source that is Donkey Kong, he still derives from it. So yes, King K. Rool would be a Mario character, or more accurately, a Donkey Kong character who shares the same source as Mario.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

There are wayyyyy too many fe characters in smash and they're bloating the roster size. A lot of them aren't even cool characters. Replace Robyn with Isaak, and what's that awful forgettable characters name (the half dragon man) with lyn in smash 4, then drop lucina altogether and we'd have been in a better space.

Also, the fact that the addition of marth and Roy to smash was so huge to the fe series, creates another confusing element. People want that to happen for more nintendo IP's - doesn't nintendo want that too? Nintendo has so many ded and/or unknown IP's, smash is the perfect vessel to re-ignite them. Takamaru, ray, Isaak, Sami, Saki, sukapon, etc, all deserve spots, and fe characters are hogging the space.

My counter question is whats with sakurais boner for fe? Spread things out a little!

 

[Enchess]

1. Wario, like Daisy, debuted in a Super Mario Land game (his being the 2nd while Daisy was in the first)...and he’s also playable in the DS version of Super Mario 64
2. Cranky Kong and Mario debuted in the other Donkey Kong game, and that game leads to the Super Mario and DKC series (not only that, but the place that game was set in ended up becoming New Donk City, which has streets named after DK characters, and Yoshi once took care of the current Donkey Kong)...so Donkey and Diddy are definitely Mario characters even if they’re not apart of the core characters

Both of their series are spin off series to the overall Mario franchise, therefore being Mario characters

As you said yourself, Donkey Kong series spunoff of Donkey Kong Arcade, not Mario. Mario is a Donkey Kong character if anything.

Do we consider Rabbids a Rayman character or Rayman a Rabbids character? Rabbids are bigger ATM, but Rayman series came first, so Rabbids are Rayman characters.

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when someone does a "well technically" but only go half-in with technicalities.

 

[Q-Long]

Its people who are annoyed at all the FE characters who don't realize how big it is now

and old school FE fans annoyed at Awakening over representation or a lack of older FE representation

that being said its one of my favorite series. glad for its growth and new blood!

 

[Oddball]

Mario is Mr. Nintendo, but the whole roster isn't Nintendo. You also assert that Super Smash Bros. got its name from Mario, but you don't cite any source. Not that it would matter anyway, since it's irrelevant.

Really? You need a source that says a Nintendo Game named Super Smash Bros that features characters from Nintendo's Super Mario Brothers before you belive it? Do you think that it was just somehow some coicidence? Did you ask for a source proving that Super Mario kart was named after Super Mario Bros too?

 

[Quillion]

I personally think Fire Emblem is just a franchises that you can't represent without using the character themselves; there are very few iconic elements of the franchise that aren't character that can be recognizable; this probably makes the franchise always having new material to create new characters and music; but being very loose with everything else.

This is exactly what's happening. Like Pokémon, it's impossible to be fair to Fire Emblem's entire legacy by just having one to three characters. The people who want to play as newer characters will be alienated.

But Fire Emblem has it worse; Pokémon could get by on just Pikachu, but Fire Emblem doesn't have a character to anchor on.

 

[Crystanium]

Really? You need a source that says a Nintendo Game named Super Smash Bros that features characters from Nintendo's Super Mario Brothers before you belive it? Do you think that it was just somehow some coicidence? Did you ask for a source proving that Super Mario kart was named after Super Mario Bros too?

Super Mario Kart is a Mario game. Super Smash Bros. isn't. But like I said, it's irrelevant. It doesn't strengthen your argument.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Fire Emblem has overrepresentation, but a ton of them are from different games. I really don't have an issue with , , , :ultrobin, and because four of them brought unique Sword playstyles to the table, and has been decloned which I hope goes a step further in Smash Ultimate. If they stuck to these five, then I wouldn't have seen an issue, but FE Awakening got way too many fighters including both and which are both echos and rob spots on the roster. Fire Emblem needs less characters, but also more stages. It's no different with Mario and Pokémon franchises.

By the way, and 's games really aren't significant enough to where they can't be called Mario representatives. They are the only fighters from their "franchises", and their games aren't huge. I think has a reason considering he has had a number of games and now has and with him.

 

[majora_787]

Honestly, it's hard for me to take people seriously when they complain now about too many fire emblem characters. People were equally, if not MORE angry when we had three unique fire emblem characters and a clone added last-minute to bulk the roster. From there, we get Shulk. People suddenly don't care about ""anime-looking characters using swords"". We get Cloud. Still nobody cares about ""anime-looking characters using swords"". Roy is confirmed for DLC. Suddenly, the people who were mad about the number of fire emblem characters aren't nearly as vocal about it, and we didn't even know how much Roy had been de-cloned yet. But as soon as we got Corrin confirmed, another unique fighter more in the vein of Robin showing off dragon transformation elements as a unique use of other weapon types? People go right back to ridiculous levels of hostility. When we get one singular popular-request echo fighter and people scream about how all of a sudden we have too many characters, it's exhausting. The people who do this already made themselves look bad four years ago. They complain that there are three characters who all fight basically the same as Marth, but nobody cares that there are two characters who fight basically the same as Mario and one that fights the same as Peach. They also don't care that the Zelda series is made of Link, Zelda, an alternate version of Zelda with a different moveset, two semi-clones of Link, and a semi-clone of Captain Falcon. It's impossible to believe that these people have legitimate issues a lot of the time when it's an issue they only have if Fire Emblem is involved.

And honestly, the fact of the matter is, if Fire Emblem doesn't have characters, it's not really going to get anything else. Like Pokemon, it's a cast driven by hundreds of different characters with different levels of popularity. It went from no stages, to one stage, to three stages of which two are functionally the same thing. It also, definitely, has never had items other than that one assist trophy for years, until just now with the Killing Edge. Because that's just the kind of series it is. It's all just people pulling out that sick now 10-year-old mindset of "I don't play that games, that games are bad, remove from smash" mentality.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pokemon also had the luxury of having the Pokeball item being in since the very first game. Plus those Pokemon cameos on Saffron City, yeah it has been well represented since the start. Also the reason the first Smash game was postphoned release in Europe, because the Pokemon hype wasn't here just yet (the games still needed German, French and Spanish translations I imagine). I remember this well, cause I knew all about Smash before it was out because of magazines.

Also indeed, Mario is a spin-off to Donkey Kong if nothing else. We can have this discussion else where, but it still sucks how Mario gets 95% of the attention while DK is hugely ignored most of the time...

Anyway, yeah, Fire Emblem represents itself best with characters. And yes, Assist Trophies would help a great deal. But c'mon, we basically have 4 characters now with a moveset that's created out of Marth's. So what's the deal honestly??? As I said before, if Corrin wasn't a DLC character, this discussion wouldn't even be there. Roy still would've been brought back for Ulitmate anyway, Chrom being his Echo, and THEN Corrin would have most likely be a newcomer

I still would like to see Alm and Celica, so shoot me.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

A mere assertion, nothing more. I could argue that there should be more Kirby characters, since SSB is Sakurai's creation.

Only problem is him not wanting to show bias toward his creation

As you said yourself, Donkey Kong series spunoff of Donkey Kong Arcade, not Mario. Mario is a Donkey Kong character if anything.

Do we consider Rabbids a Rayman character or Rayman a Rabbids character? Rabbids are bigger ATM, but Rayman series came first, so Rabbids are Rayman characters.

I would say the Rabbids are Rayman characters (if they’re still apart of the same universe that is, cause tbh I’m not sure about that anymore), and Mario would be a DK character, but with the way Nintendo markets the Mario franchise as a whole, the Kong is a Mario character (so it could go both ways for either character...and Pauline since she could also be counted as a member of both series thanks to the arcade game, Mario vs Donkey Kong, and Odyssey)

 

[Crystanium]

Only problem is him not wanting to show bias toward his creation

I don't know the validity of this statement, but a creator can be as biased as he or she desires about his or her product.

 

[Q-Long]

edit: oops wrong thread!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't know the validity of this statement, but a creator can be as biased as he or she desires about his or her product.

That’s true, but this is Sakurai that we’re talking about, and I don’t think he likes to show favoritism to something he’s made (well...a series atleast, cause Kid Icarus got a lot of love in Smash 4 and is still getting it in Ultimate)

 

[Handy Man]

FE Fates got way too many fighters including both and which are both echos and rob spots on the roster.

Echoes do not eat up roster slots. Echoes are just copied and tweaked data of existing fighters in the game. As a result, they take signifigantly less time to develop than brand new characters, as all they need to do to re-rig the new models to fit with the original one, as well as tweak any hitbox or damage parameters as need be. As such, since they would not exist without the data of their original fighter, they can be seen as extra characters that throw a bone for fans.

In contrast, characters like Robin and Corrin require all of their animations to be made from scratch, particle effects to be created for their moves, their entire hit and hurt boxes needing to be made for everything they do, and much more programming effort all-around. These characters are created from the ground up and take signifigantly more development time than an echo fighter. Lastly, Lucina and Chrom are from Awakening, not Fates.

 

[31fps]

I never said it's popular to a Mario/Zelda level or that its popularity lead to 7 characters. All I said is that the character requests for Fire Emblem kept pouring in regardless of people hating on it. I mean, even after Fire Emblem having 4 characters, Roy was one of the most requested characters to become DLC. Of course, it's not like Mario or Pokémon where just the series existing warrants them one or two new characters per Smash game

And I wouldn't call Corrin's spot "robbed", it was just not that requested back then. The spot was reserved for a character from a recent/upcoming game, to promote it. And, upon discussing with Nintendo and the team, Corrin was to them the best/most viable choice. I mean I'm not sure what exactly made them conclude Fates was the best game to promote when Xenoblade Chronicles X or Star Fox Zero would likely benefit more of a character in Smash back then, but that was their reasoning regardless

Sure. Requests for another FE fighter came in. But so did requests for Nintendo's other, more popular, series. And look what we got instead.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Lastly, Lucina and Chrom are from Awakening, not Fates.

Noted and changed. My mistake. I changed a while ago, and meant to respond at that time, but lost power. It still doesn't change the fact that the one game has three representatives.

Echoes do not eat up roster slots. Echoes are just copied and tweaked data of existing fighters in the game. As a result, they take signifigantly less time to develop than brand new characters, as all they need to do to re-rig the new models to fit with the original one, as well as tweak any hitbox or damage parameters as need be. As such, since they would not exist without the data of their original fighter, they can be seen as extra characters that throw a bone for fans.

In contrast, characters like Robin and Corrin require all of their animations to be made from scratch, particle effects to be created for their moves, their entire hit and hurt boxes needing to be made for everything they do, and much more programming effort all-around. These characters are created from the ground up and take signifigantly more development time than an echo fighter.

The thing about these is that Echo Fighters still require some effort. They may not be robbing spots for characters people hope get in such as Bandana Dee, Skull Kid, or Geno, but they are robbing potential other echo fighters people hope get in. Those two echo fighters could have been Dixie Kong, Octoling, Shadow, or Ken.

 

[TheCrimsonSquid]

1. Wario, like Daisy, debuted in a Super Mario Land game (his being the 2nd while Daisy was in the first)...and he’s also playable in the DS version of Super Mario 64
2. Cranky Kong and Mario debuted in the other Donkey Kong game, and that game leads to the Super Mario and DKC series (not only that, but the place that game was set in ended up becoming New Donk City, which has streets named after DK characters, and Yoshi once took care of the current Donkey Kong)...so Donkey and Diddy are definitely Mario characters even if they’re not apart of the core characters

Both of their series are spin off series to the overall Mario franchise, therefore being Mario characters

I said "Wario never shows up in mainline Mario games", not "Wario has never shown up in a mainline Mario game". In other words, my point is that Wario has become effectively absent from the Mario canon, appearing only in spin-offs. They clearly have no interest in using him in mainline Mario titles.

2. That doesn't change the fact that Donkey Kong, like Wario, has been effectively absent from the Mario canon, except for even longer, and with a separate series that is famous in its own right. Just because a mainline Mario game makes a few DK references doesn't make the likes of Diddy(who has never once had an appearance with Mario in any non-spin-off title), Donkey, or whichever DK character a Mario rep.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

You can imagine Donkey Kong as the source, with Mario Bros. flowing down from it, from which Super Mario Bros. also flows. Super Mario World produces a secondary source where Yoshi comes along. Super Mario Land 2: Six Golden Coins introduces Wario. There were other Donkey Kong games, which eventually produced Donkey Kong Country and its subsequent streams. Although King K. Rool is farther from the source that is Donkey Kong, he still derives from it. So yes, King K. Rool would be a Mario character, or more accurately, a Donkey Kong character who shares the same source as Mario.

The point is King K. Rool is a Donkey Kong character, not a Mario character. Yes, the games he is in are derived from Mario games, but that's as far as his association with the franchise really goes. The reason I don't like the "we have a lot of Mario characters too" argument when discussing Fire Emblem characters is that the Mario franchise is the biggest in gaming. Not just Nintendo, but gaming. Fire Emblem doesn't even compare to it, and while it is a big franchise itself, it still sits behind Kirby and Legend of Zelda in popularity. The series having a lot of character wouldn't be a big deal if other series did as well, but it just has so many more than other franchises.

 

[Crystanium]

The point is King K. Rool is a Donkey Kong character, not a Mario character. Yes, the games he is in are derived from Mario games, but that's as far as his association with the franchise really goes.

The two are literally in the same universe.

The reason I don't like the "we have a lot of Mario characters too" argument when discussing Fire Emblem characters is that the Mario franchise is the biggest in gaming.

So? Too much representation of one thing only restricts introducing new faces.

Not just Nintendo, but gaming.

And Mario is the most popular in his franchise. So, who cares about these other characters?

Fire Emblem doesn't even compare to it, and while it is a big franchise itself, it still sits behind Kirby and Legend of Zelda in popularity.

I don't know why you're telling me this. I brought up how the Mario franchise is the worst offender, not Fire Emblem. Although it's the second worst in spite of you telling me how less popular it is to Kirby and The Legend of Zelda.

The series having a lot of character wouldn't be a big deal if other series did as well, but it just has so many more than other franchises.

So, let's spread that privilege to the under-represented.

 

[SmashBro99]

It's pretty simple, there are too many characters that arent unique for the same series, sure Mario has a bunch of characters but they play pretty different. Almost all the FE characters are just generic sword fighters with nothing special (Glad Robin made it in, and no one asked for Corrin but atleast he/she has some cool dragon powers and isnt boring as **** like Marth and co)

Now before yall get mad, I love all of the FE games I've played, that'd be 5 of them, but I hate it's representation in smash, FE has swordfighters sure, they also have archers, axe users, spear fighters, magic users (dark, light, elemental) and assassins with daggers, yet all we get are boring sword lords.

I can't be the only one who would rather see Lyn with sword/bow attacks or Hector with slow axe smashes and handaxe throw as his side special over more swords.

I wish japan liked other weapons, instead of us being stuck with Lucina and Chrom, echos or not its a bit bland for a series that has so much more to offer.

I'm not a fan of Kirby, or his games personally. But I wouldn't mind Bandana Dee if he brings that spear, give us some variety in weaponry.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I said "Wario never shows up in mainline Mario games", not "Wario has never shown up in a mainline Mario game". In other words, my point is that Wario has become effectively absent from the Mario canon, appearing only in spin-offs. They clearly have no interest in using him in mainline Mario titles.

2. That doesn't change the fact that Donkey Kong, like Wario, has been effectively absent from the Mario canon, except for even longer, and with a separate series that is famous in its own right. Just because a mainline Mario game makes a few DK references doesn't make the likes of Diddy(who has never once had an appearance with Mario in any non-spin-off title), Donkey, or whichever DK character a Mario rep.

So you believe that just because they don’t consistently appear in the main titles and have their own series that spun off of another game, they’re not a main Mario character? Cause if so, that’s like saying heroes/villains who only appear in the MCU shows aren’t apart of the MCU

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don’t give a **** what everyone says but, Black Knight would be an awesome addition even if he where to be a Echo of Ike.

 

[Diem]

I feel the criticism against FE in Smash have been oversimplified to "Too many anime sword users".

Let's break that down.

The biggest complaint is that FE is over-represented in Smash, sitting at 7 characters, the third most represented series overall, beneath Mario and Pokemon. While it is a long-running series, no doubt, it has by no means always been as popular or comercially successful as it is now. Awakening was when the series really hit commercial success and mainstream popularity, as well as being the first time the series sold over 1 million copies.

None of those things are inherently bad or problematic. Things become problematic when you take a look at other big name Nintendo franchises. Other long running game franchises who regularly push 1 million to multi-million sales, such as DKC, Kirby, Star Fox, and Metroid all only had 2-3 characters during Smash 4, compared to FE's 6. Not too mention there are plenty of fan favorite and very viable fighters from each of those franchises.

This becomes doubly frustrating when you take into account all of the other beloved niche games that have no characters in Smash, such as Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Chibi Robo, etc. Fire Emblem was no different from those franchises when it was added to Melee, and has since received a massive push because of it. Why can't any of those game receive the same chance, instead of adding a 6th, 7th, or 8th FE character?


The other main criticism of FE is that too many of the characters are too similar. Yes, many of the popular characters use swords, but the games are built around the weapon triangle of sword, axe, lance.

Imagine if the only Pokemon ever added were all Electric typed? Imagine that the Pokemon line-up for Smash was as follows:

Pikachu, Pichu, Pachirisu, Dedenne, Emolga, Jolteon, and Ampharos

It's boring when you consider all of the unused Pokemon types not being used. Not too mention that 5 of them are basically just Pikachu. Sure Emolga has a few unique moves that makes it a little different, but it's basically just a flying Pikachu.

That is why everyone is sick of FE. Robin and Corrin are the only unique characters from an aesthetic and moveset standpoint. We should be asking why of 7 FE characters, none use an axe or a lance, and why so many of them look and play like Marth?


At the end of the day, the criticism of FE in Smash may be tired and said too many times, but it doesn't make them any less valid.

Well put.

To expand a bit, let's not understate the fact that Fire Emblem has the third most characters of any franchise. It's only beaten by Mario and Pokémon, which are the best selling game franchise in history and the most profitable media franchise of all time, respectively.

Legend of Zelda, one of the most famous and venerable franchises since the early days of video games, has less characters, despite there being several characters like Skull Kid, Midna, Zant, etc. that have a lot of potential. Arguably, the series hasn't gotten any newcomers since Melee (given that Toon Link is more or less a tweaked Young Link). Fire Emblem's gotten several.

Donkey Kong, Metroid, Star Fox, and Kirby also didn't get any new characters in Smash 4, when Fire Emblem got two newcomers and an Echo Fighter, along with Roy getting added back.

Many of Fire Emblem's characters were added just a few years after their respective games, or sometimes even before. Roy was added to Melee before his game was even released. Corrin was added to Smash 4 before his game was released internationally. Meanwhile, characters from franchises/games that are much older have been neglected.

And people still ask for more Fire Emblem characters.

So it's not just the volume, but the amount of favoritism obviously being shown to the franchise over so many other franchises. It gets more love than some of the most historic franchises in gaming, primarily just because of one game from 2012. Sakurai also admitted in his most recent Famitsu column that someone on the audio team really loves Fire Emblem, so even its music will be getting a lot of attention.

There's also the aesthetic issue. Fire Emblem has always had an anime aesthetic, and with Awakening, it leaned heavily into a lot of anime tropes, hence its boost in popularity. Most other Nintendo franchises are more unique in their aesthetics, thus most other potential characters would add more aesthetic diversity to the cast (e.g. a big space dragon or a big crown-and-cape-wearing crocodile), but Fire Emblem characters all draw from the same basic anime art style. Hence the label "anime swordfighter" that's been given to Fire Emblem and other franchises. That's why a lot of people were excited about Simon Belmont's appearance, because he's got more of an 80's "Conan the Barbarian" look, and he uses a whip instead of a sword, so he adds a lot to the cast.

Do some people take their resentment too far? Of course. Fire Emblem has become a very popular franchise both in Japan and in the West following the release of Awakening. To say that it doesn't deserve attention is ridiculous. And the characters that are in the game are all genuinely loved by a decent number of people, as opposed to some desired characters like Waluigi, where most of the character's support is ironic. But when your representation is only beaten by the two biggest gaming series in history, then maybe that's a little much.

And when people have been asking for beloved and unique characters from other long-running franchises for over a decade, but we keep getting Fire Emblem characters from games that have only come out recently (or in some cases haven't even come out yet), it's not hard to understand why some people would be miffed.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

So, let's spread that privilege to the under-represented.

We can at least find common ground on this last point. I would much rather see a new series be represented, like Golden Sun or Rhythm Heaven, than get another Fire Emblem or Mario character. Smash is supposed to represent all aspects of Nintendo, so to me it would be nice for some of these series to finally be a part of Smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

Echoes do not eat up roster slots. Echoes are just copied and tweaked data of existing fighters in the game. As a result, they take signifigantly less time to develop than brand new characters, as all they need to do to re-rig the new models to fit with the original one, as well as tweak any hitbox or damage parameters as need be. As such, since they would not exist without the data of their original fighter, they can be seen as extra characters that throw a bone for fans.

In contrast, characters like Robin and Corrin require all of their animations to be made from scratch, particle effects to be created for their moves, their entire hit and hurt boxes needing to be made for everything they do, and much more programming effort all-around. These characters are created from the ground up and take signifigantly more development time than an echo fighter. Lastly, Lucina and Chrom are from Awakening, not Fates.

Well put.

To expand a bit, let's not understate the fact that Fire Emblem has the third most characters of any franchise. It's only beaten by Mario and Pokémon, which are the best selling game franchise in history and the most profitable media franchise of all time, respectively.

Legend of Zelda, one of the most famous and venerable franchises since the early days of video games, has less characters, despite there being several characters like Skull Kid, Midna, Zant, etc. that have a lot of potential. Arguably, the series hasn't gotten any newcomers since Melee (given that Toon Link is more or less a tweaked Young Link). Fire Emblem's gotten several.

Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Kirby didn't get any new characters in Smash 4, when Fire Emblem got two newcomers and an Echo Fighter.

Many of Fire Emblem's characters were added just a few years after their respective games, or sometimes even before. Roy was added to Melee before his game was even released. Corrin was added to Smash 4 before his game was released internationally. Meanwhile, characters from franchises/games that are much older have been neglected.

And people still ask for more Fire Emblem characters.

So it's not just the volume, but the amount of favoritism obviously being shown to the franchise over so many other franchises. It gets more love than some of the most historic franchises in gaming, primarily just because of one game from 2012. Sakurai also admitted in his most recent Famitsu column that someone on the audio team really loves Fire Emblem, so even its music will be getting a lot of attention.

There's also the aesthetic issue. Fire Emblem has always had an anime aesthetic, and with Awakening, it leaned heavily into a lot of anime tropes, hence its boost in popularity. Most other Nintendo franchises are more unique in their aesthetics, thus most other potential characters would add more aesthetic diversity to the cast (e.g. a big space dragon and or a big crown-and-cape-wearing crocodile), but Fire Emblem characters all draw from the same basic anime art style. Hence the label "anime swordfighter" that's been given to Fire Emblem and other franchises.

Do some people take their resentment too far? Of course. Fire Emblem has become a very popular franchise both in Japan and in the West following the release of Awakening. To say that it doesn't deserve attention is ridiculous. And the characters that are in the game are all genuinely loved by a decent number of people, as opposed to some desired characters like Waluigi, where most of the character's support is ironic. But when your representation is only beaten by the two biggest gaming series in history, then maybe that's a little much.

And when people have been asking for beloved and unique characters from other long-running franchises for over a decade, but we keep getting Fire Emblem characters from games that have only come out recently (or in some cases haven't even come out yet), it's not hard to understand why some people would be miffed.

 

[GreenKirby]

The two are literally in the same universe.

Do you consider the Joker a Wonder Woman character?

 

[Crystanium]

Do you consider the Joker a Wonder Woman character?

No. The Joker didn't first appear in a Wonder Woman comic.

 

[Oddball]

No. The Joker didn't first appear in a Wonder Woman comic.

Oh. We want to play that game.

Alright.

Wolverine is not a X-men character. He's an Incredible Hulk character because that's where he first appeared.

Sabretooth is also not a X-men character. He's not even a Wolverine character. He first appeared in an Ironfist comic.

Drax the Destroyer? Ironman character.

Rocket Racoon? Hulk character.

Rogue? Avengers enemy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Likely comes from the fact people claims there is too many of them but I do understand why there are that many. Fire Emblem is a pretty popular franchise especially in the west.

No one probably complains about too many Mario characters though because Mario is not only the most iconic gaming mascot but also face of Nintendo. He's basically the answer to video games as Mickey Mouse is to cartoons.

 

[lizard1929]

I would be ok with 1 maybe 2 more FE characters as long as they aren't sword users.

I have never played a FE game. (may try 3 houses)

 

[StormC]

Marth, Ike and Robin were great choices.

Lucina and Chrom were inoffensive low effort clones to please fans.

Roy was grandfathered in. I personally don’t care about him but we’re stuck with him. Even Fire Emblem fans don’t like him!

Corrin came out at the worst time possible and was an advertisement that backfired because both his character and game were controversial.

Personally? The series has 7 characters and they all just blur together. Seven humanoid characters of similar builds all wielding swords. Corrin could have been a lot more interesting but his dragon powers are limited. Compare this to the Pokemon roster and its huge variety, or even the three DK characters. They make their series infinitely more appealing than the FE characters do.

That said, I don’t really care as long as other series get their core characters. DK has 3 of them but is missing Dixie. I’d be pretty miffed if we got say, Black Knight as an echo but not Dixie.

Going forward? I think Edelgard is a solid DLC choice. And with the inevitable cutting of characters in sequels...FE might be in talks for that.

 

[Deathcarter]

Honestly for all of the complaints about the FE characters in Smash being vanilla swordsman, I like that Fire Emblem provides (and in the future ) as additional straight forward, accessible options for players like me who want to use sword characters who aren't designed around:

-heavy projectile game play ()
-crazy and/or inhibiting gimmicks (:ultrobin)
-or a non-human body type ( (yes, I count him as a "swordsman")).


Despite the complaints about "too many FE characters" or "They all use swords", I believe that consistent design philosophy among the FE characters is the primary reason why they tend to be fairly popular in the Smash fandom as well as the reason why Sakurai is still willing to go to the FE well despite admitting that he feels there are too many characters from the series.

 

[Crystanium]

Oh. We want to play that game.

Alright.

Wolverine is not a X-men character. He's an Incredible Hulk character because that's where he first appeared.

Sabretooth is also not a X-men character. He's not even a Wolverine character. He first appeared in an Ironfist comic.

Drax the Destroyer? Ironman character.

Rocket Racoon? Hulk character.

Rogue? Avengers enemy.

These examples don't work. Wolverine, Hulk, Sabretooth, Drax, Iron Man, Rocket Racoon, and Rogue have two things in common. Most live on Earth. All are in the mainstream continuity that is Earth-616.

Samus doesn't live in the same universe as Pokémon, nor does Red live in the same universe as Kirby, nor does Kirby live in the same universe as F-Zero. And Mario? Well, he doesn't live in any of these. What you might find are cameos, but that's not a surprise, given they're all creations of Nintendo.

 

[pholtos]

The following are views expressed by someone who has never touched a fire emblem game.

My view, and main issue with all the Fire Emblem characters, is it seems like every time they add 1 or 2, one of them is a marketing ploy for a recent game in the series, ever since Melee. (From what I can tell. Roy and Corrin I'm fairly certain were just that, might be a tad wrong, might've missed one, I'm unfamiliar. I've come to understand Roy was actually added to Melee before the game he was even based on came out, which is just silly.)

Coupling that with the fact that almost every single fire emblem character added is hardly different from the rest. The exceptions being Robin and Corrin. Marth, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Chrom. Those characters could easily have just been one character and one echo. Instead we currently have 3 characters and 2 echoes, which are essentially mirrors of each other with slight variations and power differences of the same general idea, of a character wielding their trademark sword.

I'd like to note that I'm aware the FE characters aren't the only ones to do this, M/L/Dr.M are fairly similar with slight variations, the three links of hyrule, off the top of my head anyways. On the flipside, however, they haven't been shoving more similar chars at us each game of the series, and with the "everyone is here" mentality of Ultimate, the three links are understandable.

I'd have way less of a gripe if the character choices and weapon choices were varied. Having characters added to the game as essentially a marketing ploy without adding much in terms of differentiation or filling a niche role, frankly, disappoints me.

On that note, have any other characters been added as a marketing ploy? Maybe the Icarus characters?

 

[StormC]

These examples don't work. Wolverine, Hulk, Sabretooth, Drax, Iron Man, Rocket Racoon, and Rogue have two things in common. Most live on Earth. All are in the mainstream continuity that is Earth-616.

Samus doesn't live in the same universe as Pokémon, nor does Red live in the same universe as Kirby, nor does Kirby live in the same universe as F-Zero. And Mario? Well, he doesn't live in any of these. What you might find are cameos, but that's not a surprise, given they're all creations of Nintendo.

Do you consider Banjo and Conker Mario characters since they debuted in Diddy Kong Racing?

At the end of the day, the DK and Wario series have their own characters, settings, gameplay, and tone completely separate from the mainline Mario series, so the fact that a couple of Kongs show up in Mario spin-offs once in a while doesn't really have much bearing in anything.

Nobody looks at K. Rool and thinks "Mario character" except hypernerds on the internet obsessed with continuity that even Nintendo doesn't care about.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

. Even Fire Emblem fans don’t like him!

Uh, this isn't true.

Roy is the second most popular male Fire Emblem character, only after Ike.

And we have data on this through official Fire Emblem polls.

Roy is incredibly popular. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie or ignorance.

 

[StormC]

Uh, this isn't true.

Roy is the second most popular male Fire Emblem character, only after Ike.

And we have data on this through official Fire Emblem polls.

Roy is incredibly popular. Saying otherwise is a flat out lie or ignorance.

I can't speak to the details of that or how much it was influenced by Smash (where he's obviously a fan favorite), but I generally see him talked about as one of the least favorite lords (at least for western fans). Primarily for gameplay reasons more than anything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/2v7dw4/whos_the_worst_lord/

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I can't speak to the details of that or how much it was influenced by Smash (where he's obvious a fan favorite), but I generally see him talked about as one of the least favorite lords (at least for western fans). Primarily for gameplay reasons more than anything:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/2v7dw4/whos_the_worst_lord/

To be fair, that's pretty old.

I think nowadays, you'd get all sorts of different answers.

Besides, the question was worst, not least favorite.