How come so many people are taking a dump of FE lately?

[31fps]

Do your sales figures include the microtransactions in Fire Emblem Heroes? I personally blew over $500 on that.

No. Sales are regularly measured by cpies sold.

If it was micros transactions Fortnite and Battlefront 2 would be the world's greatest games ever made (they're not, by the way).

 

[FirestormNeos]

No. Sales are regularly measured by cpies sold.

If it was micros transactions Fortnite and Battlefront 2 would be the world's greatest games ever made (they're not, by the way).

You say that as though copies sold are a measure of quality.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This is straight up not true (and what you'd expect from a FE fan).

Marth and Ike were good choices for Brawl, but after that things got out of hand. Robin had a unique moveset and was probably the best way of representing Awakening without using a clone. Lucina (and Chrom for that matter) should have been an alternate costume of Marth but they decided to make her fighter because they had "extra time," which, knowing Nintendo, is also a lie: They did it to make make the roster seem larger, to appease FE fans, and more importantly, make more money off of amiibos.

No one was truly salty over Roy because he was a Melee star (although from what I've heard he's not that popular among the FE fanbase, but I could be wrong). But that really should have been it. They decided to go the extra mile and put Corrin in the game to promote Fates. This wouldn't be super bad if fates sold better, but it really only sold enough to proceed to making the next game.

Saying "They're DLC so it doesn't count" is also a bad argument. Of course they count. Anyone would much rather have an actually popular fighter with a unique moveset from a good game than another sword wielder only added to promote her game.

And to correct you, Kirby would actually be the hardest series for Sakurai to add characters too. In case you (probably) didn't know, Sakurai left HAL a while ago because he felt the demand for more Kirby sequels was too much. It was becoming too "sequelized." And although Sakurai himself has said it does not exist, loads of people would claim Sakurai bias if he ever added another Kirby character over their most wanted. Even if the Kirby character is a much larger request than their most wanted, people will still scream Sakurai bias as an excuse.

If Sakurai bias was never a thing I assure you the Kirby roster would be so much bigger right now.

Sakurai had so many FE characters in the game to promote FE as a whole. Roy was in Melee even though his game didn't come out until 2003, and in 2001 (when Melee was released) FE was still only in Japan. They rotated out Roy for Ike which was fine. Smash 4 added so many because they wanted to promote FE, using various fighters. Chrom was added in Ultimate because of actual demand from the FE fanbase and not because they wanted to promote FE. In fact, Sakurai said that he was pressured by Intelligent to increase the FE roster and that they assured him it would be a good idea and beneficial for the Smash community.

So that's a no to the "individual merits" crap.

FE having low sales is exactly the point. They want to have more sales so they can have something other than Mario and Kirby being the flagship of 3DS system sellers. (IMO this is a terrible idea, Smash should not be a billboard to advertise a game and should actually feature gaming icons and popular demands.)

FE is about war? Well whoop-de-do! Let's remove the entire Mario roster because it's only about rescuing princesses and driving go-karts! Let's remove every game that doesn't feature war! Get rid of Pokemon, Kirby, DK, Yoshi, Earthbound, F-Zero, Ice Climber, Sonic, and even frigging Splatoon because they never explicitly mention war and combat! It's only platforming or friendly competition those games care about! Not war and fighting!

The reason the game has so many "eligible fighters" with "individual merits" is because the whole theme of FE is to have lots and lots of characters on your side.

"If I draw thirty stick figures and tell someone to turn them into characters for my latest FE game statistically one of them will be in Smash!"

No. Even though FE has a practically endless cast of fighters to choose from that doesn't mean any of them are good ideas. If they can't bring a new idea into the game, if they don't have a unique moveset, if no one wants them, or if their series already has enough fighters (which FE does), they're not needed.

In conclusion: FE has been getting everything it ever wanted and it's unreasonable to say that was a good idea. Every excuse they make for it only makes it seem like they're biased toward FE more and more. It's time that other series get something too.

Next time please divide your paragraphs into spoilers so it's not as long.

 

[31fps]

You say that as though copies sold are a measure of quality.

They're not at all. But they're a better way of measurement than micro transactions.

 

[Opossum]

I'll never understand the bafflingly dumb "turn echoes into alts" argument. When a character is an echo, they make the effort to make them feel like themselves. They have their own animation adjustments, taunts, voice lines, and possibly outright move changes.

But then we have alts, like Alph. Poor Alph. He follows Olimar's moveset to the nitty gritty. Same taunts, same victory poses, shows up in the same place during classic mode (2001) instead of when he should (2013), he flies Olimar's ship instead of his own, and he isn't even allowed to blink simply because Olimar doesn't need to. It's not Alph, it's Olimar wearing Alph's body as a morbid Halloween costume.

If Chrom were made into a Roy skin, I'd be beyond pissed. He'd lose his unique taunts, idle stance, and win animations, he'd lose Awakening Aether in favor of Roy's Critical Hit, an animation specific to Roy, he'd lose his recovery taken straight from Awakening, and Falchion would have Fire effects that it never had before. His blade would have different properties from Lucina's despite them being the same sword. He'd need to hold his sword in a reverse grip, which completely goes against his well-established canonical fighting style, just because Roy does so.

Chrom deserves to be Chrom, end of story. The "turn echoes into alts" crowd can whine about the roster ratios of a children's party game later.

 

[Arthur97]

I'll never understand the bafflingly dumb "turn echoes into alts" argument. When a character is an echo, they make the effort to make them feel like themselves. They have their own animation adjustments, taunts, voice lines, and possibly outright move changes.

But then we have alts, like Alph. Poor Alph. He follows Olimar's moveset to the nitty gritty. Same taunts, same victory poses, shows up in the same place during classic mode (2001) instead of when he should (2013), he flies Olimar's ship instead of his own, and he isn't even allowed to blink simply because Olimar doesn't need to. It's not Alph, it's Olimar wearing Alph's body as a morbid Halloween costume.

If Chrom were made into a Roy skin, I'd be beyond pissed. He'd lose his unique taunts, idle stance, and win animations, he'd lose Awakening Aether in favor of Roy's Critical Hit, an animation specific to Roy, he'd lose his recovery taken straight from Awakening, and Falchion would have Fire effects that it never had before. His blade would have different properties from Lucina's despite them being the same sword. He'd need to hold his sword in a reverse grip, which completely goes against his well-established canonical fighting style, just because Roy does so.

Chrom deserves to be Chrom, end of story. The "turn echoes into alts" crowd can whine about the roster ratios of a children's party game later.

Well, not much effort goes into making Lucina feel like Lucina, but most of the argument holds.

 

[Master_Gamer]

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. I don't have any problems with the Fire Emblem franchise. I've played one of their games and I love the series. It's really awesome. I never had a problem with the FE characters that were added up to Smash 4. What sat wrong with me is that Lucina was added. Robin was a perfect addition as it was really cool to see the mage archetype character brought to life. Ike was a perfect addition, bringing a heavyset FE character to the roster. Roy was perfect as well since it was a direct contrast to the heavy emphasis on spacing play style of Marth. But Lucina was just....meh. Really nothing was brought to the table. I felt the same way about Dark Pit. Palutena was an amazing addition, but we did not need Dark Pit.

So at the release of Smash 4, I didn't really feel very right about the Fire Emblem cast for what was stated above, but also because they started to rival the amount of characters in the Mario department. I'm all fine with the Mario part of the roster filling out because well that's the franchise that literally brought us what we have today. And don't get me wrong, you can't scoff at the success of Fire Emblem and especially it's popularity in Japan. But really? Rivaling Mario?

To bring it all home, I still personally feel the same about Chrom. Oh boy, another Fire Emblem character. But I have no room to complain with how amazing Ultimate is going to be. If it were another Smash 4 roster, I might voice my opinions a little bit. But again, there is literally no room to complain. Not only that, but it warms my heart to see that people are getting the dream characters they've wanted. Chrom has been a fan favorite for a long time, or so I've heard. And while not every character is going to make it onto the roster, what characters we do get we should be thankful for.

 

[Opossum]

Well, not much effort goes into making Lucina feel like Lucina, but most of the argument holds.

Sadly, like the situation with Alph and Dark Pit, I think it's sort of a grandfather clause thing with her...which sucks, because she should have her idle animation changed at the very least.

 

[Arthur97]

Sadly, like the situation with Alph and Dark Pit, I think it's sort of a grandfather clause thing with her...which sucks, because she should have her idle animation changed at the very least.

It really frustrates me how little she got and how inaccurate she is even including voice lines.

At least Dark Pit is canonically very similar to Pit.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I personally believe were likely to get a Fire Emblem rep in response to Three Houses as DLC for the same reasons as a Gen 8 Pokemon as well. Who it might be I don't know.

 

[VexTheHex]

But then we have alts, like Alph. Poor Alph. He follows Olimar's moveset to the nitty gritty. Same taunts, same victory poses, shows up in the same place during classic mode (2001) instead of when he should (2013), he flies Olimar's ship instead of his own, and he isn't even allowed to blink simply because Olimar doesn't need to. It's not Alph, it's Olimar wearing Alph's body as a morbid Halloween costume.

Poor Alph and Pikmin fans. We been getting teased for Pikmin 4 for quite some time with nothing concrete still. Meanwhile smaller series that are in (Kid Icarus) and being cheered for (Golden Sun) already have echoes (Dark Pit) or talk of echoes (Medusa, Felix). Meanwhile Pikmin sits with the alternate costume Alph.

And Pikmin 4 will probably be too late to help anything, even DLC. Y.Y

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I personally believe were likely to get a Fire Emblem rep in response to Three Houses as DLC for the same reasons as a Gen 8 Pokemon as well. Who it might be I don't know.

That would be another Corrin. Baaaad idea. Sakurai said himself Corrin was a bad decision, he's not going to be fooled by Intelligent twice.

In case you didn't know, Intelligent "assured" Sakurai that adding Corrin was going to be beneficial for Smash and it's community as a whole. I think we can all agree based on the amount of people that despise Corrin that Intelligent was wrong.

If Sakurai is going to add a newcomer from a recent switch title as DLC it would most likely be a dream friend from Kirby: Star Allies (although Sakurai is still afraid of people calling Sakurai bais in 2018), or someone from Hyrule Warriors. After Roy got grandfathered into the game they're running out of excuses to bring another FE character in.

 

[Icelerate]

This is straight up not true (and what you'd expect from a FE fan).

No need to emphasize on me being an FE fan or not. Bringing that up just makes you sound condescending and someone who jumps to conclusions too quickly.

Marth and Ike were good choices for Brawl, but after that things got out of hand. Robin had a unique moveset and was probably the best way of representing Awakening without using a clone. Lucina (and Chrom for that matter) should have been an alternate costume of Marth but they decided to make her fighter because they had "extra time," which, knowing Nintendo, is also a lie: They did it to make make the roster seem larger, to appease FE fans, and more importantly, make more money off of amiibos.

Some people didn't like Marth's tipper mechanic so adding Lucina to give a Marth playstyle without worrying about spacing opens the room for more people to enjoy the fighting style. But I would be fine with her being a costume but now she's an echoe which is fine.

No one was truly salty over Roy because he was a Melee star (although from what I've heard he's not that popular among the FE fanbase, but I could be wrong). But that really should have been it. They decided to go the extra mile and put Corrin in the game to promote Fates. This wouldn't be super bad if fates sold better, but it really only sold enough to proceed to making the next game.

And at this point, Corrin is a Smash4 inclusion so under Sakurai's "bring everyone back philosophy", Corrin being added to Ultimate is fine. Fates sold very well, about on par with Awakening and is also the most recent game barring spinoffs and remakes.

Saying "They're DLC so it doesn't count" is also a bad argument. Of course they count. Anyone would much rather have an actually popular fighter with a unique moveset from a good game than another sword wielder only added to promote her game.

Corrin does have a unique move set. Sakurai has added popular characters via DLC and Corrin at that time would have decent popularity due to recency factor.

And to correct you, Kirby would actually be the hardest series for Sakurai to add characters too. In case you (probably) didn't know, Sakurai left HAL a while ago because he felt the demand for more Kirby sequels was too much. It was becoming too "sequelized." And although Sakurai himself has said it does not exist, loads of people would claim Sakurai bias if he ever added another Kirby character over their most wanted. Even if the Kirby character is a much larger request than their most wanted, people will still scream Sakurai bias as an excuse.

Ironic that you're screaming Sakurai bias as an excuse for your arguments.
If Sakurai bias was never a thing I assure you the Kirby roster would be so much bigger right now.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't make sense. Why would Sakurai have an anti Kirby bias?

Sakurai had so many FE characters in the game to promote FE as a whole. Roy was in Melee even though his game didn't come out until 2003, and in 2001 (when Melee was released) FE was still only in Japan. They rotated out Roy for Ike which was fine. Smash 4 added so many because they wanted to promote FE, using various fighters. Chrom was added in Ultimate because of actual demand from the FE fanbase and not because they wanted to promote FE. In fact, Sakurai said that he was pressured by Intelligent to increase the FE roster and that they assured him it would be a good idea and beneficial for the Smash community.

So that's a no to the "individual merits" crap.

So does that mean you're okay with Chrom in Smash? I'd like to see proof of where you're coming from.

FE having low sales is exactly the point. They want to have more sales so they can have something other than Mario and Kirby being the flagship of 3DS system sellers. (IMO this is a terrible idea, Smash should not be a billboard to advertise a game and should actually feature gaming icons and popular demands.)

Are you saying Smash doesn't have popular gaming icons? Your argument would be valid if Smash didn't have popular gaming icons but it does and more. Since you love straw man arguments, I'll give you one, let's remove all characters in Smash from franchises that don't sell as much as the most popular ones.

FE is about war? Well whoop-de-do! Let's remove the entire Mario roster because it's only about rescuing princesses and driving go-karts! Let's remove every game that doesn't feature war! Get rid of Pokemon, Kirby, DK, Yoshi, Earthbound, F-Zero, Ice Climber, Sonic, and even frigging Splatoon because they never explicitly mention war and combat! It's only platforming or friendly competition those games care about! Not war and fighting!

Straw man argument because I never said cartoony franchises should have little to no representation over serious games. Fact of the matter is, FE characters have battle animations and models that translate to Smash easier so it'd make it easy to develop additional FE fighters over fan favourites like Ridley who'd take a lot more time and resources to properly fit.

"If I draw thirty stick figures and tell someone to turn them into characters for my latest FE game statistically one of them will be in Smash!"

No. Even though FE has a practically endless cast of fighters to choose from that doesn't mean any of them are good ideas. If they can't bring a new idea into the game, if they don't have a unique moveset, if no one wants them, or if their series already has enough fighters (which FE does), they're not needed.

In conclusion: FE has been getting everything it ever wanted and it's unreasonable to say that was a good idea. Every excuse they make for it only makes it seem like they're biased toward FE more and more. It's time that other series get something too.

Having more characters means that the percentage of characters in FE that are in Smash VS those that aren't is a lot lower than most franchises. FE characters can add plenty of unique and interesting movesets and have done so in the past. It is unfortunate that every single FE fighter uses swords despite there being other weapon types but that's a different issue altogether.

 

[Luigifan18]

That would be another Corrin. Baaaad idea. Sakurai said himself Corrin was a bad decision, he's not going to be fooled by Intelligent twice.

Hold on, when did he say that?

 

[Rocketjay8]

That would be another Corrin. Baaaad idea. Sakurai said himself Corrin was a bad decision, he's not going to be fooled by Intelligent twice.

In case you didn't know, Intelligent "assured" Sakurai that adding Corrin was going to be beneficial for Smash and it's community as a whole. I think we can all agree based on the amount of people that despise Corrin that Intelligent was wrong.

If Sakurai is going to add a newcomer from a recent switch title as DLC it would most likely be a dream friend from Kirby: Star Allies (although Sakurai is still afraid of people calling Sakurai bais in 2018), or someone from Hyrule Warriors. After Roy got grandfathered into the game they're running out of excuses to bring another FE character in.

I don't recall Sakurai ever saying that. Source please?

 

[Rocketjay8]

Laggy double post.

 

[FirestormNeos]

They're not at all. But they're a better way of measurement than micro transactions.

0 is not greater than 0. If they aren't a measure of quality "at all," then they are equally as bad of a measurement of quality as microtransactions are.

 

[Fane]

The Fire Emblem thing is a non-issue when it comes to actual representation though.

Yeah, it has 7 characters... BUT...

Four of the current Fire Emblem characters are very similar and two of those four are outright clones. That really leaves Fire Emblem with... 3 actual unique characters in Ike, Robin, and Corrin.

Lucina, Chrom, and Roy are only in due to demand.(Roy especially)

I think they could go ahead and just cut those three and we'd be fine, but you know the instant they cut Roy a huge portion of the Smash community will throw a fit despite most of those people not even caring about Fire Emblem and are the same people that hate the representation it has.

I think people need to prepare for another Fire Emblem character through DLC because of Three Houses.

Honestly though, none of the FE characters really need to be cut. They all have merits and reasons to be included. Awakening is represented with the 3 major characters because it's probably the most recognizable of the games and it literally saved the series from dying out. Ike/Marth are just seniority and recognizable/popular within both communities. Corrin was an advertisement for the upcoming Fates games, and honestly, if he/she weren't included...

You all know damn well that either Corrin or Azura would've been a newcomer in Ultimate.(Possibly even Alm or Celica)

Honestly I think it's mostly bandwagon hate. Personally, I think if representation for a series bothers you SO much that you need to spread hate about it and it's characters, you're being highly immature and petty. It's alright to just not care about it or not like it, but to go to the extent a lot of people do is just... childish.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I don't recall Sakurai ever saying that. Source please?

Watch this video
My opinion is Sakurai's opinion

 

[Folt]

This is exactly what's happening. Like Pokémon, it's impossible to be fair to Fire Emblem's entire legacy by just having one to three characters. The people who want to play as newer characters will be alienated.

But Fire Emblem has it worse; Pokémon could get by on just Pikachu, but Fire Emblem doesn't have a character to anchor on.

Marth to some degree, but yeah. He's not as iconic a mascot to the franchise (despite being one of it's mascots) like Pikachu is.

And yes, lack of iconic anything other than characters and music and constantly adding new protagonists with almost every game is why Fire Emblem gets so many playable characters compared to a franchise like, say, Yoshi, where the series is much easier represented through stages (being a franchise that has continually given a stage to each previous game). Or heck, even series like Metroid, Kirby, F-Zero, Animal Crossing...

Also, considering how many FE characters we have right now, I could easily see a future Smash installment at a Breidablik item that summons FE characters AKA Assist Trophies which could help (given that characters like Tiki and Xander would be somewhat problematic to implement as playable fighters; this would essentially let us show off the other kind of weapons and styles that FE has).

 

[Oddball]

I really don't understand the argument people are using.

"Of course Fire Emblem needs lots of characters. It's because they don't have any iconic characters!" If they don't have anyone that represents their series shouldn't that be a strike against them having characters?

 

[Izanagi97]

I really don't understand the argument people are using.

"Of course Fire Emblem needs lots of characters. It's because they don't have any iconic characters!" If they don't have anyone that represents their series shouldn't that be a strike against them having characters?

Especially since, if spin offs and cameos are anything to go by, they already have some iconic characters in Marth, Ike, and the Awakening Trio (I only watched let's plays of the games)

 

[Folt]

I really don't understand the argument people are using.

"Of course Fire Emblem needs lots of characters. It's because they don't have any iconic characters!" If they don't have anyone that represents their series shouldn't that be a strike against them having characters?

Oh, they definitely have iconic characters, but few if any of them show up in subsequent games that aren't sequels or remakes unless it's a cameo appearance (with the introduction of amiibo) or a spinoff title. That said, much like series like Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, etc. Fire Emblem is now huge enough to include less iconic characters in the roster as well... the caveat being that, unlike f.ex. Mario; these characters are protagonists of their own games since the aforementioned lack of an actual recurring cast means the only ones with half a chance of getting in are protagonists.

 

[Deleted member]

So I’d like to ask something. Since this is a big issue, how anyone here solve said issue?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

What really irks me is that people want to cut because "We don't need 3 Marth clones!" when at this point he has enough differences to stand out on his own, and he is what Falco and Toon Link are to Fox and Link respectively.

 

[31fps]

Some people didn't like Marth's tipper mechanic so adding Lucina to give a Marth playstyle without worrying about spacing opens the room for more people to enjoy the fighting style. But I would be fine with her being a costume but now she's an echoe which is fine.

I agree that Marth's tipper is broken and unnecessary but I wish the aesthetic of not having a tipper (or any weird hitbox placement) would be put on a fighter who doesn't have a moveset weight schematics, speed, etc. that were designed to be carbon copies of Marth's.

Corrin does have a unique move set. Sakurai has added popular characters via DLC and Corrin at that time would have decent popularity due to recency factor.

That's where you're wrong. Corrin was only in the minds of people who played fates. That's the problem with adding characters from recent game (IMO): People just haven't been introduced to them fully yet and need more time. It's hard to decide if you really want a character in or not so soon after their game is released.
As for being a gaming icon, Corrin is a no. You can't release a game so soon and suddenly their main character is globally recognized as one of gaming's biggest icons. Of course, Smash has never been about only having the best, but Corrin crossed the line by being only 6 months old yet surpassing so many others.
Although Corrin has a few different attacks than Marth and his clones, the aesthetic f a sword-wielding anime character is the same.

Ironic that you're screaming Sakurai bias as an excuse for your arguments.
If Sakurai bias was never a thing I assure you the Kirby roster would be so much bigger right now.

That doesn't make sense. Why would Sakurai have an anti Kirby bias?[/QUOTE]
After Brawl, small groups of people started to get mad that their most wanted fighters weren't in the game. They looked at King Dedede and Meta Knight and blamed them, callnig it a Sakurai Bias. Although the good man has said there is no bias, it's obvious he's been holdng back from adding Kirby characters out of fear of it happening again.
And yeah, he has been biased toward FE. Why else would they add so many newcomers to the game to popularize it? Lucina was added to increase it's roster, Roy was grandfathered in and Corrin was added to promote Fates.

o does that mean you're okay with Chrom in Smash? I'd like to see proof of where you're coming from.

I am OK that Chrom is in smash. He was actually a popular request for a Fire Emblem character (also his moveset is a little cooler).

Are you saying Smash doesn't have popular gaming icons? Your argument would be valid if Smash didn't have popular gaming icons but it does and more. Since you love straw man arguments, I'll give you one, let's remove all characters in Smash from franchises that don't sell as much as the most popular ones.

"Straw man." You're hilarious.
Yes, franchises that don't sell well or get good reviews shouldn't have a surplus of newcomers. The only exception is if people actually want them. Fates may have sold a little less than 2 million units but it got mixed reviews. A lot of people (including myself) were very unhappy with the game. I never imagined Corrin would be in and was disappointed when she did.
Obviously I don't want to purge any series of fighters. I would hate to do that. But it's not necessary to add newcomers if no one wants them and they're games aren't good.

Straw man argument because I never said cartoony franchises should have little to no representation over serious games. Fact of the matter is, FE characters have battle animations and models that translate to Smash easier so it'd make it easy to develop additional FE fighters over fan favourites like Ridley who'd take a lot more time and resources to properly fit.

Having more characters means that the percentage of characters in FE that are in Smash VS those that aren't is a lot lower than most franchises. FE characters can add plenty of unique and interesting movesets and have done so in the past. It is unfortunate that every single FE fighter uses swords despite there being other weapon types but that's a different issue altogether.

This is literally what I said. Sure, there's plenty of characters to choose from, and it's easy to transfer them into Smash, but who is saying we should? FE has plenty of characters and I don't understand why some people can't be happy with that. Sure, their movesets could be a lot better but who cares? Sakurai recognizes FE as a successful franchise and has been warmed among the Smash developers. We don't have to have another FE newcomer if we don't nee done. There's no use in picking every potential fighter.

 

[SmashShadow]

Honestly I find it funny that anyone complained about Meta Knight and Dedede at the time of Brawl when they wholeheartedly deserved to be in as long standing recurring characters in a longstanding successful Nintendo franchise. One look at the later smash rosters would tell you that there weren't many big names that were left to add in Brawl at the time anyways (at least from a first party perspective). Most of the Smash 4 casts is either 3rd party characters or the product of post brawl success/debuts. Only a couple of big name characters weren't added at that time such as K.Rool, Ridley (who was a boss), and Toad (probably less relevant then now with all his playable appearances). Personally I think Brawl had the most impressive newcomer roster in the entirety of Smash.

 

[SmashBro99]

I personally believe were likely to get a Fire Emblem rep in response to Three Houses as DLC for the same reasons as a Gen 8 Pokemon as well. Who it might be I don't know.

Probably a swordy with a down b counter.

Here's hoping I'm wrong and we get something unique, Robin is the only real unique (in terms of not JUST a sword, I swear anyone who isn't a FE fan probably thinks its a boring af series with its representation in smash) character aside from Corrin, who despite most people not happy with his inclusion, is more interesting than Marth, Lucina, Roy, Ike or Chrom.

Also just make them all alts of eachother, I like Lucina, but if they aren't going to make her unique just make her an alt, instead of trying to make her diverse with very minor changes, not fooling anyone (intelligent) I like Chrom as well, same thing (except he pulls from a few different characters, they just want his face there and dont focus on a fleshed out moveset, why not just throw him as an alt)

FE fans are funny, they want them to be unique, but they aren't. But they can't be alts, yikes.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

May I please reiterate

If your response is too long please break it up into spoilers

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It is unfortunate that every single FE fighter uses swords despite there being other weapon types but that's a different issue altogether.

Blame IS for making most of the lords sword-users. We'd get more weapon diversity if there were less main characters with swords. Of all the issues people could have with FE representation in Smash, this is the one argument that you cannot blame Smash for.

 

[Luigifan18]

Blame IS for making most of the lords sword-users. We'd get more weapon diversity if there were less main characters with swords. Of all the issues people could have with FE representation in Smash, this is the one argument that you cannot blame Smash for.

It's a very common trope that the main character gets a sword, as swords, being more difficult to manufacture than axes and lances, tend to get associated with nobility (and thus important people) while the common folk are fighting with axes, lances, and bows. Fire Emblem is one series out of many that does this. And with Fire Emblem having such a massive cast of characters, obviously, only the main characters — the ones the games actually revolve around — are going to show up in Smash. The side effect of these factors together? All the Fire Emblem characters in Smash are carrying swords.

Don't blame Intelligent Systems. Blame economics, human history, and storytelling in general. Sword = rich = powerful = important. (Though it would be cool to get Hector, Ephraim, Michiah, and/or Edelgard to break up the monotony.)

 

[31fps]

Fire Emblem music is pretty bad IMO

 

[Folt]

Fire Emblem music is pretty bad IMO

I can find no words that can describe how utterly wrong you are. Fire Emblem music is very very good, especially with the latter Fire Emblems.

 

[Arthur97]

The music generally seems to range from okay to really good, but some in Smash fall a little flat to me. Hopefully Id (Purpose) isn't butchered this time.

 

[Izanagi97]

It's a very common trope that the main character gets a sword, as swords, being more difficult to manufacture than axes and lances, tend to get associated with nobility (and thus important people) while the common folk are fighting with axes, lances, and bows. Fire Emblem is one series out of many that does this. And with Fire Emblem having such a massive cast of characters, obviously, only the main characters — the ones the games actually revolve around — are going to show up in Smash. The side effect of these factors together? All the Fire Emblem characters in Smash are carrying swords.

Don't blame Intelligent Systems. Blame economics, human history, and storytelling in general. Sword = rich = powerful = important. (Though it would be cool to get Hector, Ephraim, Michiah, and/or Edelgard to break up the monotony.)

Pretty much

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's a very common trope that the main character gets a sword, as swords, being more difficult to manufacture than axes and lances, tend to get associated with nobility (and thus important people) while the common folk are fighting with axes, lances, and bows. Fire Emblem is one series out of many that does this. And with Fire Emblem having such a massive cast of characters, obviously, only the main characters — the ones the games actually revolve around — are going to show up in Smash. The side effect of these factors together? All the Fire Emblem characters in Smash are carrying swords.

Don't blame Intelligent Systems. Blame economics, human history, and storytelling in general. Sword = rich = powerful = important. (Though it would be cool to get Hector, Ephraim, Michiah, and/or Edelgard to break up the monotony.)

I couldn't have said this better myself. People always talk about giving FE "proper" representation by including the weapon triangle (everyone has their own idea of how to represent something), but when it comes to a crossover of the scope of Smash, the main characters are pretty much the most eligible candidates to make it into a Smash game, despite side characters like Owain, Tharja, etc., etc. gaining popularity within their own series.

If people want their fix of FE representation, then they should just play FE Warriors and Heroes; those titles celebrate the series history better than Smash does because it's exclusively about them and they don't have to juggle other franchises in, giving other FE characters room to kick around. It's kind of similar how Pokken and Hyrule Warriors also celebrate their franchises' respective history as well. I feel that a lot people project into Smash their ideas of representation too much when a lot of it isn't always practical nor feasible.

I also take issue when people downplay Robin and Corrin just because they hold a sword. Nevermind that Robin uses several spells and Corrin uses his manakete abilities in most of his attacks and simulates lance combat. But people just look at the sword they are holding. Makes me wonder if Ephraim would be seen the same if the only thing they change about him was his weapon from a lance to a sword.

 

[Luigifan18]

I couldn't have said this better myself. People always talk about giving FE "proper" representation by including the weapon triangle (everyone has their own idea of how to represent something), but when it comes to a crossover of the scope of Smash, the main characters are pretty much the most eligible candidates to make it into a Smash game, despite side characters like Owain, Tharja, etc., etc. gaining popularity within their own series.

If people want their fix of FE representation, then they should just play FE Warriors and Heroes; those titles celebrate the series history better than Smash does because it's exclusively about them and they don't have to juggle other franchises in. It's kind of similar how Pokken and Hyrule Warriors also celebrate their history as well. I feel that a lot people project into Smash their ideas of representation too much when a lot of it isn't always practical nor feasible.

I also take issue when people downplay Robin and Corrin just because they hold a sword. Nevermind that Robin uses several spells and Corrin uses his manakete abilities in most of his attacks and simulates lance combat. But people just look at the sword they are holding. Makes me wonder if Ephraim would be seen the same if the only thing they change about him was his weapon from a lance to a sword.

Funny thing about Ephraim — though he's never able to use swords in-game, he canonically does know how to use them. Hell, he taught Eirika most of her swordsmanship!

 

[FirestormNeos]

Blame IS for making most of the lords sword-users. We'd get more weapon diversity if there were less main characters with swords. Of all the issues people could have with FE representation in Smash, this is the one argument that you cannot blame Smash for.

It's a very common trope that the main character gets a sword, as swords, being more difficult to manufacture than axes and lances, tend to get associated with nobility (and thus important people) while the common folk are fighting with axes, lances, and bows. Fire Emblem is one series out of many that does this. And with Fire Emblem having such a massive cast of characters, obviously, only the main characters — the ones the games actually revolve around — are going to show up in Smash. The side effect of these factors together? All the Fire Emblem characters in Smash are carrying swords.

Don't blame Intelligent Systems. Blame economics, human history, and storytelling in general. Sword = rich = powerful = important. (Though it would be cool to get Hector, Ephraim, Michiah, and/or Edelgard to break up the monotony.)

Then stop using the main characters.

Link isn't the only Zelda character in Smash Okay, bad example. Mario isn't the only Mario character in Smash. Starter Pokemon and Pikachu are not the only Pokemon in Smash. This isn't hard, people.

If people want their fix of FE representation, then they should just play FE Warriors and Heroes; those titles celebrate the series history better than Smash does because it's exclusively about them and they don't have to juggle other franchises in, giving other FE characters room to kick around. It's kind of similar how Hyrule Warriors and Sonic Generations also celebrate their franchises' respective history as well. I feel that a lot people project into Smash their ideas of representation too much when a lot of it isn't always practical nor feasible.

FTFY

 

[Arklos]

If people want their fix of FE representation, then they should just play FE Warriors and Heroes; those titles celebrate the series history better than Smash does because it's exclusively about them and they don't have to juggle other franchises in, giving other FE characters room to kick around. It's kind of similar how Pokken and Hyrule Warriors also celebrate their franchises' respective history as well. I feel that a lot people project into Smash their ideas of representation too much when a lot of it isn't always practical nor feasible.

FE Warriors also had a bad representation though. It was front loaded with awakening and fates, with a whopping 3 from Shadow Dragon, and was littered with swords, despite too many swords being the reason stated why they didn't just pick the lords from across all games instead of just 3. To add salt to the wound, until dlc there was only 3 axes, 3 bows, and 3 lances (and all the bows and lances were clones of each other) and only 1 dragon stone user.

Edit:And this is a game that actually mattered what weapons were used with the characters since it used the weapon triangle.

 

[Luigifan18]

Then stop using the main characters.

Link isn't the only Zelda character in Smash Okay, bad example. Mario isn't the only Mario character in Smash. Starter Pokemon and Pikachu are not the only Pokemon in Smash. This isn't hard, people.

Fire Emblem has a breathtakingly massive number of characters. Using a non-main character is guaranteed to elicit "who the hell is that" reaction from non-FE fans.