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Housepets! Mafia - Game Over - Who lived happily ever after in Babylon Gardens?

Kantrip

Kantplay
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That's funny, because if John had said he would not want to lynch RR then I would have been fine right then and there. It was what I expected from him, and when he gave me the response he did it only confirmed it. As is clear, I didn't actually believe RR was John's scummate. As should also be very clear, John is and has been my top scumpick.

You're accusing ME of setting up mis-lynches. Amusing.

I've already gone over this. Cop can investigate me if a mis-lynch occurs. Hell, they can investigate me even if I already pinned the scumteam!

I believe RR was sleeping on his decision on claiming. We can wait to hear his opinion but I think it would be the best course of action for us.
 

T-block

B2B TST
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I call BS. What would have been your conclusion if John had said he did not want to lynch RR? You would have said "oh well, guess we can't draw any conclusions from that; john is still scum though"? No you wouldn't. If you're willing to use the assumption that John is scum to incriminate me, you would have no problem using the assumption that John is scum to incriminate RR.

I don't think RR and I even need to claim anymore. We should just lynch you :)
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Why would I incriminate RR based on that? I went through with that with the intention of pressuring John, my scum read.

What happened is that John slipped. If he had answered that he would not want to lynch RR, I would have kept questioning.

You're accusing me of something ridiculous, and you know it.

But go ahead and lynch me. You will be 0 for 2 on your "im positive" scum reads, town will be in myLo or something, and they may or may not realize you're scum before you lead and mislynch.

I can't believe you had a scum read D1 that you were willing to bet your life over. You're a better town player than to tunnel like that, I think.

But that's neither here nor there, because you are scum.

I want you to claim in the least. RR's may or may not be necessary after that, and I can claim too.
 

T-block

B2B TST
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It was either T-Block or you (referring to RR), and multiple factors point to you over T-Block.

T-Block's play has just generally looked townie to me. His questions did seem like general scumhunting and his case and push on JTB was consistent and put himself really far out there. If his content seemed hollow, forced, or reachy, I would put it under scrutiny. However, the cult leader scenario aside, his play is generally more townie to me than yours.
As is clear, I didn't actually believe RR was John's scummate. As should also be very clear, John is and has been my top scumpick.
  • Kantrip is convinced that one of RR or TB is scum.
  • Kantrip says multiple factors point to RR being scum over TB (post 1)
  • Implication: Kantrip thinks RR is most likely to be scum
  • Kantrip thinks strongly that John is scum
  • Implication: Kantrip thinks RR is most likely to be John's scum buddy
  • Kantrip says he didn't actually believe RR was John's scummate (post 2)
  • ...contradiction?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Did you not read the part that said pushing RR as john's scumbuddy was a gambit?

Honestly, YOU are setting up mislynches.
 

T-block

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Oh, so that was all part of the gambit?...

That's pretty dangerous... you know you're someone under scrutiny, and someone asks you an important question like whether you think it's TB or RR - a question that you know could very well be important later - and you don't give an answer that we can hold you to -_-

So, you thought I was scum from the beginning of D2?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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No I didn't think you were scum since the beginning of D2.

I had my eye on both you and RR, and nothing was making me lean one way or the other.

In what way was the gambit dangerous?
 

T-block

B2B TST
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And right now, the reason you think I'm scum over RR is because of what John said, right?

It's dangerous because now we can't pin you to a previous stance. When I asked you whether you would choose me or RR, you might as well have not answered at all.
 

T-block

B2B TST
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I can't believe you had a scum read D1 that you were willing to bet your life over. You're a better town player than to tunnel like that, I think.
So if I said I wasn't confident, I get grilled for pushing a lynch I wasn't sure about, suggesting I was scum who knew he would flip town. If I say I am confident, I'm tunneling, and apparently I'm a better town player than that, so I must be scum. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

I was confident, and evidently I was wrong. But what exactly does that confidence mean, Kantrip? You're not being consistent - you're just pulling up everything you can to try to get me lynched before you.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I'm not worried about you being lynched before me.

I'm worried about finding scum.

I've got to go now, I hope to hear others check in.
 

Jim Morrison

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Do you think a night action where you send in 2 names and are told if the players are on the same faction is possible, John?
I can see that being a role, with what I've seen around in past games...

That would mean RR is a townie, and TB would be in the hotseat for the cult death..
That could be what that would mean. Or it would mean we should lynch Red Ryu toDay to either clear you or condemn you.
That sounds like a logical way to handle it, yes.

So now you want RR lynched because we should take your word on what your role is.
Hrmmm...
See, the problem with this is that the whole thing is based on that John believes you actually have a role that investigates TWO people. I find it ridiculous that a role like that would be in a small game like this, which Xiivi has stated wasn't very spectacular with power roles, and we already have a cult leader dead.

I, however, can see John actually believing that that role would be in the game. This would mean he COULD be town. The problem is, the implications made by John IF he were scum, could have a tremendous impact on the game. IF John were scum, THEN Red Ryu would probably in the clear because of what John played like last page and THEN T-block would be scum.

I can definitely see where you make the connection John scum = T-block scum. I also agree with with T-block's #680. The way you were playing with John was incredibly manipulative and I don't think John is one of the hardest players to manipulate (no offense, you're just very inexpierenced).

With this said, I still believe we should lynch John, instead of T-block. I am afraid that lynching T-block could do us a lot of harm. He has proven to be one of the stronger players. I think John's flip would be decisive in figuring out who scum is. If he were to flip scum, I would instantly be willing to vote T-block off without him even defending himself. If he were to flip town, I think we should lynch you, based on your play off yesterday (the switch to JTB) and your 'gambit' today on John and how manipulative it actually seemed.

You said you are almost entirely sure that John is scum and he is your top scum pick. Why lynch T-block first, seriously? I'd rather lynch scum right now and put us in a 4 to 1 scenario (assuming 2 scum) and not a 3-2 situation, if this were to go wrong. In fact, if there were 3 mafiosi and we mislynch T-block now, we are literally done for. For this, town had to have a power role or two more as well, but this doesn't seem impossible.

In my fair opinion, I'd much rather lynch the top scumpick that's incredibly suspicious than the expierenced player who is likely to be scum. I'm not willing to take that risk and possibly end the game tomorrow.

Claim order: Kantrip, RR, T-block, John.
John is my top scumpick, after that T-block, based on what you did (I agree with a lot of your points, don't take this post wrong), then I don't really care who claims. I just want to see John claim last.


I still have to read things over more carefully, only been home for an hour now, but these are my initial thoughts and I'm fairly sure I'll stick with this.

My vote is already on John, so take this as voting him.
 

Jim Morrison

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Instead of doing that I hard core skimmed like the SS Anne over the waves of the ocean.

Frankly, I'm going to go ahead and get the ball rollin in the direction it should have been going since last night.

vote: T-brock

Insert his cool story bro here
Glyph don't do this, take your time to read, I'd much rather you understand everything that has happened than you repeating so much of what has been said and understood.

Also, Kantrip is right, your vote on T-block is a bad vote.
 

T-block

B2B TST
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Ew, you want to lynch John toDay? Seriously? If you ignore the information we get from his lynch, is he still your top scumpick?

Why do you want your top scumpick claiming last?
 

Jim Morrison

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I made a mistake, didn't consider that we were also flavour claiming so there could be counterclaims. I thought we were just roleclaiming and in roleclaiming I always look at what the last one claims, he has the hardest pick. If a powerrole is claimed, you can't claim that then because you will 100% die, if not today, then tomorrow.

But I think assuming we have counterclaims and just rethinking this, it would be more logical if my scumpick would claim first.

Order: John, T-block, RR, Kan
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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  • Kantrip is convinced that one of RR or TB is scum.
  • Kantrip says multiple factors point to RR being scum over TB (post 1)
  • Implication: Kantrip thinks RR is most likely to be scum
  • Kantrip thinks strongly that John is scum
  • Implication: Kantrip thinks RR is most likely to be John's scum buddy
  • Kantrip says he didn't actually believe RR was John's scummate (post 2)
  • ...contradiction?
Pretty much this, calling BS on him pulling a gambit to out T-Block as a scum mate.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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Instead of doing that I hard core skimmed like the SS Anne over the waves of the ocean.

Frankly, I'm going to go ahead and get the ball rollin in the direction it should have been going since last night.

vote: T-brock

Captain Cool's been sticking up for the little guy (ie, Tokyogamer) calling him town for his reactions to JTB's gambit early on in the game. Buuuuuuut that's pretty much a stretch, especially to the degree he seems to feel confident in it.

Beautiful part is, TG looked like he was next to be lynched for a pretty good part of yesterDay (or at least I got that impression flipping through it). T-block could have played the role of the wise ol' mountain sage, sternly wagging his finger and scolding 'I TOLD you guys he was town! I hope you've learned a valuable lesson about trusting me'.

Also, dude didn't die last night and freaking Auspher/TPK did. You show me a scum team in this game that would pick those two over him for NKs, and I'll show you a scum team with T-block on it.
WIFOM.

This post looks gross because it skimmed and but huge assumptions on what happened.

Get back to me when you reread the whole thread.
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
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Vote: Kantrip

Break between class periods, will deal with Gustave's posts when I get home

:phone:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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The Kantrip vs John2k4 tells me they are not scum together, no way with how John responded and how Kantrip played out the whole thing.

I'm pretty much at a point where if we lynch, Kantrip, John, Tery.

We win the game.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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We're not lynching John, or at least at this point I see no reason to before Kantrip.

Kantrip claims before we move anywhere at this point.
 

Jim Morrison

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Re-edit my order: John, T-block, Kan, RR.

I think Kan is scummier than RR at the moment.
I feel like I should elaborate on this.

To me, RR has done nothing to raise suspicion towards me. The only reason that he is even on my claim list is the tPK situation. This is why I find tPK's choice much more likely to be between Kantrip and T-block.

Why my suspicion on Kantrip has been raised:
I refer back to my #613. His posts and switch on D1 already irked me. Him stating that it was a gambit sounds like bull****. I think it's not unlikely that he was caught on this and now realized he should make it seem more like a gambit and crumb it this time.
Well, I didn't vote him there, because it irked me, but I didn't think it was enough reason to call him scum for it with a vote. Plus, he convinced me with his posts on John before, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Fast forward the weekend to me coming back now and reading this. First thing I notice is John and Kantrip's back and forth. Well okay, struck me as irky, because Kantrip basically put the words in John's mouth. The manipulative behaviour doesn't sit right with me. Still, John was the one confirming what Kantrip kept putting forward and this was terrible. John tried to save his own hide by putting RR on the line.

But then, Kantrip goes out to vote T-block. What? Your whole gambit was to out John as scum, you conclude that T-block HAS to be scum and you go to him instead. What I find telling is that he wants T-block off first. I agree that it most definitely make this seem as a scheme to out and possibly frame T-block, not John or find a correlation between RR and John.

Kantrip would be tied with (possibly above) T-block in scumpicks, if it wasn't for the implication that if John were scum, T-block could very well be scum as well.

The main reason I want John lynched now is to see what happens. I presume he flips scum, that's why I vote him mainly, I agree with Kantrip's case. If he flips scum, I am much more confident in voting T-block than I would be now and we'd probably have both scum.
In the unlikely case that John flips town, I would bet my *** off that Kantrip is scum, trying to frame townies and we'd at least have found Kantrip as scum and a lot of information was gathered.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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4/7|11.03.11 11:59PM EST

votee|voters
John2k4|Gustave/
T-block|DtJ Glyphmoney/Kantrip/
Kantrip|Red Ryu/John2k4/
No Vote|T-block/Terywj/
 

DtJ Glyphmoney

Summoned from a trading card
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Yeah I'm not reading the whole thread any more than I already have hombres, but I'm still all for the T-block lynch until someone convinces me otherwise.

Its almost like I have reason to want my vote there, but that would be as silly as Kamina being girly.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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I'm Spo, Vanilla Townie.

I found it funny when TPK called me a "grey mouse", because I am :p

I want T-Block to claim.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Also, if we mislynch toDay, we need to be very careful about toMorrow. I don't like how gustave set up his lynch target for toMorow already in one of his recent posts.

We need to look at this carefully.

What we know for sure:

At least one of Red Ryu, T-Block, and me are scum.

John and me are not a scumteam.

I am not on a team with RR or T-Block.



What we know from certain flips, using this information:

My scum flip would clear John, Red Ryu, and T-Block.
My town flip would give no information towards these people.

John's scum flip would clear me and Red Ryu, and condemn T-Block.
John's town flip would incriminate me, and would not help much on T-Block or RR.

T-Block's scum flip would make RR look better and clear me. It would incriminate John.
T-Block's town flip would incriminate me and Red Ryu, and would do nothing for John.

Red Ryu's scum flip would clear me, be good for T-Block, and be bad for John.
Red Ryu's town flip would incriminate T-Block, and leave John and me nulk.

Gustave, what you said about John is true. I didn't factor in that a scumflip would mean we wouldn't be in myLo toMorrow. With this in mind, lynching John is in fact the best play toDay. One of T-Block and Red Ryu is scum.

About a 50% chance there.

John is like 80% chance for me.

Unvote

Vote: John2k4
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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John, did you ever explain why you have a scum read on me, besides my read on you (because that just reads as OMGUS to me, as several people have acknowledged my case as valid).
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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Why claim?

Your claim didn't do much for me, so I don't see a reason to not lynch you unless I see someone who is scummier.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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What does my lynch help when I flip town?

What connections you will get, who will it clear, and who will it condemn?

Do you not agree with this?

Kantrip said:
My scum flip would clear John, Red Ryu, and T-Block.
My town flip would give no information towards these people.

John's scum flip would clear me and Red Ryu, and condemn T-Block.
John's town flip would incriminate me, and would not help much on T-Block or RR.

T-Block's scum flip would make RR look better and clear me. It would incriminate John.
T-Block's town flip would incriminate me and Red Ryu, and would do nothing for John.

Red Ryu's scum flip would clear me, be good for T-Block, and be bad for John.
Red Ryu's town flip would incriminate T-Block, and leave John and me null.
I want to see yours, John's, and T-Block's claims so that if I get lynched I can at least leave town with something to look at.

A mass claim toMorrow would be a given, I'd think. I also think lynching John toDay is better than lynching me.

Unless you disagree with my case and the connections gathered....
 

Kantrip

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T-Block. Tell me what you could've used to clear yourself, and why the events of last Night made this impossible. I don't like how you said "I can clear myself if I live until toMorrow" in D1, and then when it came to toDay and you were alive all you said was "I can't anymore nevermind".
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Were you setting yourself up for saving yourself if suspicion was cast on you from the JTB lynch?

I'll assume the worst if you ignore me :(
 
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